| Intriguing... 23:13 - Dec 3 with 2180 views | The_Major |
With all this talk that Cook should go one one side, and all the talk of giving him time on the other, I thought I'd compare Cook's record to the most obvious manager from our past where despite a poor start we did give him time, i.e. Sir Bob.
After 36 league games:
Cook: W11 D13 L12
Robson: W11 D11 L14
So Cook actually has slightly the better record, and if a couple of those losses for Sir Bob were draws, they'd be EXACTLY the same. Now, on one hand, you could say "Ha! That proves it pays to take time!" On the other, you could say that football in 2021 League One is vastly different from 1969 Division One, and so it's like comparing apples and pears. Plus you could argue that with the talent at his disposal, Cook should be doing better.
Personally, I offer no opinion either way, but it is an intriguing comparison.
Right, that's the blue touch paper lit, I'm running away. |  | | |  |
| Intriguing... on 10:45 - Dec 4 with 506 views | Yallop |
| Intriguing... on 10:35 - Dec 4 by itfcjoe |
There is also a difference these days that clubs cannot afford to hang about, and they aren't able to retain their better players if in this tier. Vultures circle picking your best players, and also working through their replacements in the academy and progress has to be quick.
But a manager does need to prove that they know what they are doing to an extent - Robson did that when he came in 68/69 and kept the club up, and continued to keep us up - achieving what was assumed his number 1 objective when appointed.
If we don't go up this year, whilst it isn't quite rip it up and start again territory, there will likely end up being 10 out and 10 in, it's the way of the world at this level - some of those will be because they aren't good enough, and some will be because they are good - but as a club of our sie, we can't build anything long term in League 1, we have to be in the Championship at the earliest possible opportunity.
The more I see from a Paul Cook team, and the more I hear from Paul Cook, it feels that the only hope we have left of getting it right here is not what I've seen but what he has achieved elsewhere (which is very impressive - of which there is no doubt). How long can we continue to have confidence when all there is is reputation, and not what we are seeing with our eyes or hearing with our ears?
I look at the squad, and at Cook's history and think there is a way we can win a few on the bounce and get back in the mix - but over the 40 games or so he's had how likely actually is it?
At some point, sadly, it's more likely we realise we are what our record suggests over his tenure than we are what he was at his previous clubs. |
Upvoted in error.
You could well turn out to be right and will no doubt tell us so but his record elsewhere has in my eyes earnt him the right to be given longer than 4 months with this squad. |  | | |
| Intriguing... on 10:48 - Dec 4 with 488 views | DJR |
| Intriguing... on 07:55 - Dec 4 by blueboyd |
it is actualy offensive to mention the name of Bobby Robson in the same breath as Paul Cook when discussing managerial quality regardless of how you want to throw stats around... how embarassing. |
As someone who started watching Ipswich a couple of months after Bobby took over, I would agree with this. I don't recall any disquiet over our form under him in the first few seasons, I was just happy to be in the First Division. Oh to have Bobby's supposed problems. |  | | |
| Intriguing... on 10:54 - Dec 4 with 470 views | ElephantintheRoom |
Robson pioneered poor starts to the season- two were so woeful that it took Keane to snatch away his record.
BUT - he was a manager who cared deeply about the job and clearly communicated what he was trying to do by building a team from within the club. He also tried to develop players he inherited - IF they were prepared to work with him.
I share your amusement with the Cook out brigade - but you really are comparing apples with pears - and probably tongue in cheek. The more obvious comparison is with Hurst - who applied similar methodology only one division higher up. Or Tim Martin taking over a faded old pub in a poor location and creating something ghastly - which appeals to a younger fan base |  |
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| Intriguing... on 11:24 - Dec 4 with 442 views | itfcjoe |
| Intriguing... on 10:45 - Dec 4 by Yallop |
Upvoted in error.
You could well turn out to be right and will no doubt tell us so but his record elsewhere has in my eyes earnt him the right to be given longer than 4 months with this squad. |
The problem is it is just his record that he has now as has achieved nothing here so far, either last season or this with 2 different sets of players |  |
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| Intriguing... on 11:29 - Dec 4 with 431 views | Chrisd |
| Intriguing... on 23:22 - Dec 3 by Keaneish |
Having spent years in dressing rooms and on training pitches in situations like this, the only way to stamp out individual errors is hard work and for players to step up to the plate. I’m in no doubt this back room staff and the players are doing what needs to be done behind the scenes and we can see little changes happening each week. Granted it’s been slower than anyone would have liked but I think we’re on the cusp of all this changing. |
It is rather embarrassing reading comments when our players are making individual errors and then the finger of blame is pointed at PC. I'm not sure what they are expecting, PC to hold their hands for the entire game, stop the match, go on to the pitch and put them into position? After all, there is a lot of experience in our squad, they don't need babysitting. Here's a thought, how about the players start stepping up and doing their jobs properly? | |
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| Intriguing... on 11:36 - Dec 4 with 422 views | Yallop |
| Intriguing... on 11:24 - Dec 4 by itfcjoe |
The problem is it is just his record that he has now as has achieved nothing here so far, either last season or this with 2 different sets of players |
Yeah I get that. Last season with perennial failures where most needed moving on and this season isn't over yet.
There becomes a point in this debate where we all need to agree to disagree because however it's badged up if we sacked Cook there's no way I could be convinced we'd given him a fair crack. | | | |
| Intriguing... on 11:41 - Dec 4 with 410 views | The_Major |
| Intriguing... on 10:48 - Dec 4 by DJR |
As someone who started watching Ipswich a couple of months after Bobby took over, I would agree with this. I don't recall any disquiet over our form under him in the first few seasons, I was just happy to be in the First Division. Oh to have Bobby's supposed problems. |
I thought there was a story about the board apologising to Robson after fans were chanting for his head, and turns out I was right, according to Pat Godbold, who would have definitely known better than me.
https://www.eadt.co.uk/sport/ipswich-town/john-cobbold-would-be-ashamed-of-the-i
Also, if people had bothered to read my original post properly, they'd see I didn't say Cook should stay or indeed go. There are pros and cons with either option. I was just curious about what the relevant records were. If you must know, I think it's a false comparison as it would be comparing most things over a 52 year gap, but I thought it would be interesting to see what other people thought. | | | |
| Intriguing... on 11:41 - Dec 4 with 411 views | Herbivore |
| Intriguing... on 11:36 - Dec 4 by Yallop |
Yeah I get that. Last season with perennial failures where most needed moving on and this season isn't over yet.
There becomes a point in this debate where we all need to agree to disagree because however it's badged up if we sacked Cook there's no way I could be convinced we'd given him a fair crack. |
Although those perennial failures had us higher up the table than Cook has managed, with a manager who was dialling it in for months. That doesn't reflect very well on him. |  |
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| Intriguing... on 12:12 - Dec 4 with 380 views | DJR |
| Intriguing... on 11:41 - Dec 4 by The_Major |
I thought there was a story about the board apologising to Robson after fans were chanting for his head, and turns out I was right, according to Pat Godbold, who would have definitely known better than me.
https://www.eadt.co.uk/sport/ipswich-town/john-cobbold-would-be-ashamed-of-the-i
Also, if people had bothered to read my original post properly, they'd see I didn't say Cook should stay or indeed go. There are pros and cons with either option. I was just curious about what the relevant records were. If you must know, I think it's a false comparison as it would be comparing most things over a 52 year gap, but I thought it would be interesting to see what other people thought. |
Apologies. I was only giving my recollection of things many years ago. And I am not calling for Cook to go either. | | | |
| Intriguing... on 12:12 - Dec 4 with 380 views | itfcjoe |
| Intriguing... on 11:36 - Dec 4 by Yallop |
Yeah I get that. Last season with perennial failures where most needed moving on and this season isn't over yet.
There becomes a point in this debate where we all need to agree to disagree because however it's badged up if we sacked Cook there's no way I could be convinced we'd given him a fair crack. |
Guess that’s the fundamental disagreement - I want Cook to succeed and if he is still here this time next year I’ll be happy because things will have to have turned…..but if he was sacked tomorrow I don’t think he could, or even would, have many complaints | |
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| Intriguing... on 13:32 - Dec 4 with 326 views | The_Major |
| Intriguing... on 12:12 - Dec 4 by DJR |
Apologies. I was only giving my recollection of things many years ago. And I am not calling for Cook to go either. |
No worries, in fact my post was more aimed at the one you quoted, so apologies to you for being a bit more abrupt than I should have been.  | | | |
| Intriguing... on 13:43 - Dec 4 with 299 views | DJR |
| Intriguing... on 13:32 - Dec 4 by The_Major |
No worries, in fact my post was more aimed at the one you quoted, so apologies to you for being a bit more abrupt than I should have been. |
No problem. | | | |
| Intriguing... on 14:00 - Dec 4 with 278 views | BlueBadger |
| Intriguing... on 11:41 - Dec 4 by Herbivore |
Although those perennial failures had us higher up the table than Cook has managed, with a manager who was dialling it in for months. That doesn't reflect very well on him. |
'Dialing it in' would have required Lambert to at least double his workload. |  |
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| Intriguing... on 14:05 - Dec 4 with 270 views | oldburian |
| Intriguing... on 09:52 - Dec 4 by Churchman |
To get the facts straight, yes the budget was one of the smaller ones, but Division One was much more financially competitive in those days. The maximum wage had ended only ten years earlier and the league operated on a shared gate receipts basis making all clubs closer financially. It’s a big factor in how Derby, Forest and Ipswich could compete as they did.
I know it won’t sit well with the people wanting to chase Cook out ASAP, but I think the OP was very much about how long you give somebody to form a team. Robson got about 10 months at Fulham and several years here. I saw Robson’s early teams (they were pretty dour, Jimmy Robertson apart) but was too young to really pick up on peoples feelings about him, over and above the well known Man U / Cobbold incident. I’d be interested to know from people who remember it what the feeling about him was.
Robson was as a manager inexperienced but two clubs clearly took different approaches with him. The same happens now, even in a completely different world. If say Carrick was appointed, how long would he get? If he went 3 months with somebody else’s team and 4 months with his own, as Cook has, would the majority of the supporters be after him as they are with Cook now?
I suspect it’d be ‘too inexperienced’’doesn’t know what he’s doing’’why did they appoint him’’how did they not learn from the Hurst debacle’’too big a job for a first appointment’. He wouldn’t attract the scrutiny Cook has and neither would he get the time Robson had. |
As someone who watched most of the games in the 60/70's Robson, to begin with, was not over popular. The supporters, though, did stand by him in the Baxter incident which, bearing in mind the status of Billy Baxter here, was quite incredible. I have stated before the 'Robson Out' was due to the substitution of Mick Hill which then saw the immediate arrival of Allan Hunter. A year later the crowd turned into an appreciative crowd and he could do no wrong.
I joined in the chant of 'Robson Out' and you should all thank me because it made him and the board realise that a fresh face was necessary hence Hunter appeared, without that we would never have had those ten years of fantastic football and achievement. He was Robsons best ever money signing! | | | |
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