| Ian Blackford 14:11 - Feb 3 with 2331 views | tractordownsouth |
Is now going into "Mexico will pay for the wall" territory here. If an independent Scotland would be as wealthy as he likes to claim, why wouldn't it be able to fund its own pensions? And if the argument is that Scottish pensioners would be able to claim from the UK government for the time they spent paying NI, then why should taxpayers in England/Wales/Northern Ireland not be granted the same privilege from the Scottish government?
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| Ian Blackford on 14:16 - Feb 3 with 1884 views | gordon |
He's correct. |  | | |
| Ian Blackford on 14:17 - Feb 3 with 1877 views | J2BLUE |
He's right though isn't he. |  |
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| Ian Blackford on 14:23 - Feb 3 with 1837 views | Swansea_Blue |
I don't see what's wrong with that. If Scottish workers have been paying tax to the UK Government for their pensions, they deserve to receive their pension. Why should the pension liabilities based on past contributions shift from Westminster to Holyrood? You probably wouldn't want that arrangement for practical purposes, but i'd have thought there would need to be a negotiation over UK Govt pension liabilities if there was a divorce settlement. |  |
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| Ian Blackford on 14:29 - Feb 3 with 1802 views | tractordownsouth |
| Ian Blackford on 14:23 - Feb 3 by Swansea_Blue |
I don't see what's wrong with that. If Scottish workers have been paying tax to the UK Government for their pensions, they deserve to receive their pension. Why should the pension liabilities based on past contributions shift from Westminster to Holyrood? You probably wouldn't want that arrangement for practical purposes, but i'd have thought there would need to be a negotiation over UK Govt pension liabilities if there was a divorce settlement. |
People should get what they've paid in, but after that point the Scottish govt should be liable, which he doesn't suggest in the video.
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| Ian Blackford on 14:34 - Feb 3 with 1767 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Ian Blackford on 14:29 - Feb 3 by tractordownsouth |
People should get what they've paid in, but after that point the Scottish govt should be liable, which he doesn't suggest in the video.
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Scottish Government to be liable for the lot according to that referendum manifesto. So yeah, that's quite a new direction he's gone in. | |
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| Ian Blackford on 14:44 - Feb 3 with 1732 views | tractordownsouth |
| Ian Blackford on 14:34 - Feb 3 by Swansea_Blue |
Scottish Government to be liable for the lot according to that referendum manifesto. So yeah, that's quite a new direction he's gone in. |
Yep. It's fair for Scottish pensioners to get what they've paid in, but for the SNP to demand that whilst also not accepting any UK debt is definitely having their cake and eating it. | |
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| Ian Blackford on 14:44 - Feb 3 with 1730 views | mutters |
UK taxpayers have a right to their pension up until they are no longer part of the UK. At that point, it will be up to the Scottish Government to pay them however a fair amount must be agreed upon during the divorce settlement to cover this.
Should the Scottish Government agree to increase or reduce it at that point, then that's their choice. |  |
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| Ian Blackford on 15:23 - Feb 3 with 1645 views | oldburian |
| Ian Blackford on 14:44 - Feb 3 by mutters |
UK taxpayers have a right to their pension up until they are no longer part of the UK. At that point, it will be up to the Scottish Government to pay them however a fair amount must be agreed upon during the divorce settlement to cover this.
Should the Scottish Government agree to increase or reduce it at that point, then that's their choice. |
The UK pension scheme is an unfounded scheme. It is paid from the ongoing annual contributions raised by the various forms of taxation. The key word here is annual. No doubt in the event of Scotland going independent there will be financial negotiations with the RUK government under an obligation from their remaining taxpayers to ensure the settlement is acceptable. Scotland cannot be seen to be having their cake and eating it. Independence for Scotland will be vastly more expensive than the zealots realise. It must remembered that Scotland has been featherbedded under the current formula allowing free university places, NHS prescriptions and so on. That level of support will be extremely difficult to continue, as Alan Brazil has said the oil monies have to all intents and purposes gone. |  | | |
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| Ian Blackford on 15:41 - Feb 3 with 1584 views | XYZ |
| Ian Blackford on 15:23 - Feb 3 by oldburian |
The UK pension scheme is an unfounded scheme. It is paid from the ongoing annual contributions raised by the various forms of taxation. The key word here is annual. No doubt in the event of Scotland going independent there will be financial negotiations with the RUK government under an obligation from their remaining taxpayers to ensure the settlement is acceptable. Scotland cannot be seen to be having their cake and eating it. Independence for Scotland will be vastly more expensive than the zealots realise. It must remembered that Scotland has been featherbedded under the current formula allowing free university places, NHS prescriptions and so on. That level of support will be extremely difficult to continue, as Alan Brazil has said the oil monies have to all intents and purposes gone. |
Things must be desperate when Alan Brazil's your go to spokesman on scottish finances.
You're right about the pensions being paid from "current" receipts and Blackford can't ignore that. | | | |
| Ian Blackford on 15:45 - Feb 3 with 1568 views | chicoazul |
| Ian Blackford on 14:16 - Feb 3 by gordon |
He's correct. |
TBF to Opie the SNP position until very recently was it would be the Scottish governments responsibility. |  |
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| Ian Blackford on 15:48 - Feb 3 with 1565 views | Darth_Koont |
| Ian Blackford on 15:23 - Feb 3 by oldburian |
The UK pension scheme is an unfounded scheme. It is paid from the ongoing annual contributions raised by the various forms of taxation. The key word here is annual. No doubt in the event of Scotland going independent there will be financial negotiations with the RUK government under an obligation from their remaining taxpayers to ensure the settlement is acceptable. Scotland cannot be seen to be having their cake and eating it. Independence for Scotland will be vastly more expensive than the zealots realise. It must remembered that Scotland has been featherbedded under the current formula allowing free university places, NHS prescriptions and so on. That level of support will be extremely difficult to continue, as Alan Brazil has said the oil monies have to all intents and purposes gone. |
Scotland hasn’t been “featherbedded” unless we’re talking the soft comfort of a straitjacket.
Scotland’s GDP per head is below all its neighbours in Northwestern Europe – except Wales, Northern Ireland and other similarly underserved regions in the UK. One of the most centralised and thus unbalanced economies in the OECD.
As an autonomous economy (within the EU of course), and the advantages of language, culture, education and natural resources, there’s no reason why Scotland couldn’t expect a society and economy more in line with Denmark than Slovakia.
Unlike Brexit, there’s a multi-billion euro upside to getting a better arrangement and more control over Scotland’s future. Not least because the UK is looking more and more a failed state. |  |
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| Ian Blackford on 15:50 - Feb 3 with 1549 views | tractordownsouth |
| Ian Blackford on 15:48 - Feb 3 by Darth_Koont |
Scotland hasn’t been “featherbedded” unless we’re talking the soft comfort of a straitjacket.
Scotland’s GDP per head is below all its neighbours in Northwestern Europe – except Wales, Northern Ireland and other similarly underserved regions in the UK. One of the most centralised and thus unbalanced economies in the OECD.
As an autonomous economy (within the EU of course), and the advantages of language, culture, education and natural resources, there’s no reason why Scotland couldn’t expect a society and economy more in line with Denmark than Slovakia.
Unlike Brexit, there’s a multi-billion euro upside to getting a better arrangement and more control over Scotland’s future. Not least because the UK is looking more and more a failed state. |
I agree with you about the UK being an imbalanced economy, but isn't the same true of Scotland? Granted devolved powers have limits, but surely the SNP could have done something about that as well? | |
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| Ian Blackford on 15:58 - Feb 3 with 1532 views | Darth_Koont |
| Ian Blackford on 15:50 - Feb 3 by tractordownsouth |
I agree with you about the UK being an imbalanced economy, but isn't the same true of Scotland? Granted devolved powers have limits, but surely the SNP could have done something about that as well? |
How are you comparing the two? Scotland is “unbalanced” by population, the UK is unbalanced by centralised control and concentrated power/interests.
And any restructuring of the economy is massively limited by the extent of the devolved powers. The move to diversify the onshore economy needs the flexibility of borrowing and of setting terms for FDI.
It’s all very well pointing at Scotland’s economy, Barnett support and challenges but why does Scotland have those challenges in the first place compared to all its neighbours? All of whom are doing fine and indeed a lot better without the “support” of a bigger nation? | |
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| Ian Blackford on 22:34 - Feb 3 with 1329 views | tractordownsouth |
| Ian Blackford on 15:58 - Feb 3 by Darth_Koont |
How are you comparing the two? Scotland is “unbalanced” by population, the UK is unbalanced by centralised control and concentrated power/interests.
And any restructuring of the economy is massively limited by the extent of the devolved powers. The move to diversify the onshore economy needs the flexibility of borrowing and of setting terms for FDI.
It’s all very well pointing at Scotland’s economy, Barnett support and challenges but why does Scotland have those challenges in the first place compared to all its neighbours? All of whom are doing fine and indeed a lot better without the “support” of a bigger nation? |
Because of bad UK government policy, not the UK itself. | |
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| Ian Blackford on 22:44 - Feb 3 with 1312 views | Darth_Koont |
| Ian Blackford on 22:34 - Feb 3 by tractordownsouth |
Because of bad UK government policy, not the UK itself. |
Obviously. But laissez-faire New Labour didn’t do anything about it either.
There’s such a massive shift needed in priorities. That’s one of the reasons that I think Starmer’s Labour is a continuation of the problem rather than the solution.
They lack a basic grasp of the UK and the rest of the world in 2022. Let alone the real challenges we should be preparing for if we were a functioning society, economy and democracy.
F@ck their posturing and love of the game. | |
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| Ian Blackford on 22:49 - Feb 3 with 1291 views | azuremerlangus |
Hardly independence if you aren’t actually financially independent? |  |
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| Ian Blackford on 22:55 - Feb 3 with 1284 views | Darth_Koont |
| Ian Blackford on 22:49 - Feb 3 by azuremerlangus |
Hardly independence if you aren’t actually financially independent? |
Why couldn’t Scotland be financially independent?
Like Ireland, Denmark, Iceland, Sweden, Finland, Norway, the Netherlands and Belgium are?
Call me Noddy, I’m all ears. | |
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| Ian Blackford on 23:15 - Feb 3 with 1226 views | lowhouseblue |
| Ian Blackford on 15:23 - Feb 3 by oldburian |
The UK pension scheme is an unfounded scheme. It is paid from the ongoing annual contributions raised by the various forms of taxation. The key word here is annual. No doubt in the event of Scotland going independent there will be financial negotiations with the RUK government under an obligation from their remaining taxpayers to ensure the settlement is acceptable. Scotland cannot be seen to be having their cake and eating it. Independence for Scotland will be vastly more expensive than the zealots realise. It must remembered that Scotland has been featherbedded under the current formula allowing free university places, NHS prescriptions and so on. That level of support will be extremely difficult to continue, as Alan Brazil has said the oil monies have to all intents and purposes gone. |
this is correct. the general state pension is unfunded and is paid out of current annual revenue. an independent scotland would need to fund it's own general pension payments just as it will need to fund other annual spending. if there are professional pension schemes (teachers, uss etc) which cover all uk nations then that's different - they have an accumulated fund and scottish members will be entitled to their share. but general pensions are funded like any other state benefit - from this year's tax, so scottish tax payers will be responsible for those scottish pension payments. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Ian Blackford on 00:13 - Feb 4 with 1184 views | XYZ |
| Ian Blackford on 23:15 - Feb 3 by lowhouseblue |
this is correct. the general state pension is unfunded and is paid out of current annual revenue. an independent scotland would need to fund it's own general pension payments just as it will need to fund other annual spending. if there are professional pension schemes (teachers, uss etc) which cover all uk nations then that's different - they have an accumulated fund and scottish members will be entitled to their share. but general pensions are funded like any other state benefit - from this year's tax, so scottish tax payers will be responsible for those scottish pension payments. |
It's not "correct". Parts of it are. Other parts of it are bobbins. | | | |
| Ian Blackford on 09:19 - Feb 4 with 1052 views | giant_stow |
| Ian Blackford on 22:55 - Feb 3 by Darth_Koont |
Why couldn’t Scotland be financially independent?
Like Ireland, Denmark, Iceland, Sweden, Finland, Norway, the Netherlands and Belgium are?
Call me Noddy, I’m all ears. |
Yes of course Scotland could be independent, but not while asking Westminster to pay its state pensions (or taking ita share of the debt) |  |
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| Ian Blackford on 10:12 - Feb 4 with 1001 views | nodge_blue |
| Ian Blackford on 15:23 - Feb 3 by oldburian |
The UK pension scheme is an unfounded scheme. It is paid from the ongoing annual contributions raised by the various forms of taxation. The key word here is annual. No doubt in the event of Scotland going independent there will be financial negotiations with the RUK government under an obligation from their remaining taxpayers to ensure the settlement is acceptable. Scotland cannot be seen to be having their cake and eating it. Independence for Scotland will be vastly more expensive than the zealots realise. It must remembered that Scotland has been featherbedded under the current formula allowing free university places, NHS prescriptions and so on. That level of support will be extremely difficult to continue, as Alan Brazil has said the oil monies have to all intents and purposes gone. |
Thats correct. There is no pension pot as such. Its not a savings scheme. You could argue that current NI costs received from Scotland have helped to pay current Scottish pensioners.
I don't see that the burden should entirely fall on the existing UK tax payers to carry on paying for Scottish pensioners. |  |
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| Ian Blackford on 10:43 - Feb 4 with 960 views | Leithblue |
I once had a trip to Amsterdam with Ian Blackford | | | |
| Ian Blackford on 10:47 - Feb 4 with 941 views | nodge_blue |
| Ian Blackford on 22:55 - Feb 3 by Darth_Koont |
Why couldn’t Scotland be financially independent?
Like Ireland, Denmark, Iceland, Sweden, Finland, Norway, the Netherlands and Belgium are?
Call me Noddy, I’m all ears. |
Im sure they could be. I don't read much economics, but I sometimes read David Smith in the times. He's said and still says that Scotland would have a really big initial problem in terms of their current expenditure v income. To the extent that they wouldn't meet correct entry rules into the EU I believe. Though those have been bent in the past.
Which is probably why we are seeing the statement from Ian Blackford. | |
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| Ian Blackford on 10:53 - Feb 4 with 915 views | WD19 |
| Ian Blackford on 10:47 - Feb 4 by nodge_blue |
Im sure they could be. I don't read much economics, but I sometimes read David Smith in the times. He's said and still says that Scotland would have a really big initial problem in terms of their current expenditure v income. To the extent that they wouldn't meet correct entry rules into the EU I believe. Though those have been bent in the past.
Which is probably why we are seeing the statement from Ian Blackford. |
Additionally, have Spain shifted their position on allowing newly independent regions of countries joining the EU? I am guessing they would be 'persuaded' somehow!? |  | | |
| Ian Blackford on 11:16 - Feb 4 with 876 views | Darth_Koont |
| Ian Blackford on 10:47 - Feb 4 by nodge_blue |
Im sure they could be. I don't read much economics, but I sometimes read David Smith in the times. He's said and still says that Scotland would have a really big initial problem in terms of their current expenditure v income. To the extent that they wouldn't meet correct entry rules into the EU I believe. Though those have been bent in the past.
Which is probably why we are seeing the statement from Ian Blackford. |
The entry rules are always Andrew Neil’s go-to. As you say the rules can be bent and it’s a unique case if an ex-EU country rejoins and also gains its independence around about the same time.
Nothing like an Eastern or Balkan state that has to go through lots of regulatory hoops to match EU regulations but has had the time to be independent and start managing its economy.
Everything is up in the air re: that. But I can’t see the EU getting in the way of EU citizens and companies/organisations coming back into the fold. Not least when the rUK is a competitor. | |
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