| Brilliant stuff here by Carole Cadwallader on Putin. on 22:15 - Mar 1 with 1081 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| Brilliant stuff here by Carole Cadwallader on Putin. on 21:23 - Mar 1 by Enigma_Blue |
Depends on what you are looking into, but there are somethings we will never know the complete truth about because the powers that be will never allow it. The JFK assassination is just one for example.
But what I can tell you is the you won't find the 'the truth' you are looking for a Netflix Documentary. Any documentary that was getting too close to the truth would at best be heavily edited or not make it on to Netflix in the first place. Surely you understand that all MSM is controlled? |
Still not given us this "elsewhere" yet..... |  |
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| Brilliant stuff here by Carole Cadwallader on Putin. on 22:16 - Mar 1 with 1074 views | eireblue |
| Brilliant stuff here by Carole Cadwallader on Putin. on 22:09 - Mar 1 by Enigma_Blue |
There is no one source of 'real news' that's the point. it would be great if there was was one stop shop for reliable factual news but unfortunately there isnt. In my experience the bigger the 'news' story the more sources of information you should use to get a better idea of the Truth. That means looking at right wing, left wing and politically neutral news sources.
Oh and stop trying so hard to impress your 'friends'. [Post edited 1 Mar 2022 22:09]
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How about a recommendation of one of each for the current situation in Ukraine.
Surely, you will want to help people get to the Truth. |  | | |
| Brilliant stuff here by Carole Cadwallader on Putin. on 22:23 - Mar 1 with 1048 views | Enigma_Blue |
| Brilliant stuff here by Carole Cadwallader on Putin. on 22:15 - Mar 1 by Ewan_Oozami |
Still not given us this "elsewhere" yet..... |
Numerous sources, and not just the usual suspects of MSM although they are sometimes a good starting pount. Al jazeera, Novara media, UK Column, Mayhar Tousi, Vox political, Off Guardian are some of the alternatives I use that you may or may not have heard of. |  | | |
| Brilliant stuff here by Carole Cadwallader on Putin. on 22:29 - Mar 1 with 1021 views | lowhouseblue |
| Brilliant stuff here by Carole Cadwallader on Putin. on 22:23 - Mar 1 by Enigma_Blue |
Numerous sources, and not just the usual suspects of MSM although they are sometimes a good starting pount. Al jazeera, Novara media, UK Column, Mayhar Tousi, Vox political, Off Guardian are some of the alternatives I use that you may or may not have heard of. |
followed up the first i saw from your list. clicked on the first article on the screen:
https://off-guardian.org/2022/03/01/us-nato-is-in-the-grip-of-a-daemonic-death-w
serious quality journalism you've got there. think i'll stick to real news sources to be honest. jeez. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Brilliant stuff here by Carole Cadwallader on Putin. on 22:35 - Mar 1 with 991 views | Enigma_Blue |
Just one of many like I said. That's fine I am not trying to persuade you or anyone. You use the sources you trust most and I will use mine. | | | |
| Brilliant stuff here by Carole Cadwallader on Putin. on 22:41 - Mar 1 with 971 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| Brilliant stuff here by Carole Cadwallader on Putin. on 21:47 - Mar 1 by BanksterDebtSlave |
The comment is purely in relation to the 14 or whatever tweets which say very little in themselves and I am not familiar with her wider work.
Have watched all the Curtis stuff. Haven't watched the Great Hack, apart from the trailer just now, but it looks very similar to the other documentary Callis mentioned which I have. I would suggest though that as valid as all these social media concerns might be that a large demographic of say Brexit voters do not engage with these platforms so for 'liberals' (sic) to try and brush off all the things that they would prefer not to have happened as gullible people being led astray by their phones is a little disingenuous and over simplified. It probably explains why I don't much like shopping though.
As an aside, if this issue is as pervasive and successful as suggested there are certainly much more powerful players than Russia who would be ahead of the game imho. |
The thing is, the people who aren't on SM hear stuff from people who are, and SM does influence what MSM media present, which Brexit voters do see - and we're not just talking about Brexit voters - and I personally (liberal though I might be) would certainly not brush off all the things that I would prefer not to have happened as gullible people being led astray, it's far more insiduous than that, it has affected our whole US/UK culture over the past 20 or so years. Look at the political discourse, the polarisation of debate, the monetisation of, well, everything!
As for players more powerful than Russia, who could they be? And what would their game be? It could be anything. It could be China trying trying to say they're not abad as everyone else makes out? It could be the US, look at the rise of the alt-right there? Rich people throughout the world trying to hang on to their fortunes? Multi-national corporations and their marketing and advertising departments trying to convince us to buy more stuff? The anti-climate-change lobby trying to protect their fossil fuel interests?
As you say, you probably make a conscious decision to avoid much of that spiel, which is a very wise move, but it also means you don't tend to see much of what you might regard as obvious BS, but which someone else might take as validation of their mindset.
All I want is for people to be more aware of what they're being shown, why they're being shown it, and who ultimately gains from it. | |
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| Brilliant stuff here by Carole Cadwallader on Putin. on 22:48 - Mar 1 with 940 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| Brilliant stuff here by Carole Cadwallader on Putin. on 22:09 - Mar 1 by Enigma_Blue |
There is no one source of 'real news' that's the point. it would be great if there was was one stop shop for reliable factual news but unfortunately there isnt. In my experience the bigger the 'news' story the more sources of information you should use to get a better idea of the Truth. That means looking at right wing, left wing and politically neutral news sources.
Oh and stop trying so hard to impress your 'friends'. [Post edited 1 Mar 2022 22:09]
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Yes, I know this, that's why I all do my own research amongst many outlets and sources, left, right and neutral.
The thing is, if one outlet says Russian influence is greatly exaggerated, and another says, no it isn't exaggerated, and here's the proof, I wouldn't neccessarily regard those outlets as both being equally valid, for that particular story. In another case, it might be the other way round - looking for the weight of evidence is important, especially in this post-truth world... | |
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| Brilliant stuff here by Carole Cadwallader on Putin. on 22:58 - Mar 1 with 920 views | Enigma_Blue |
| Brilliant stuff here by Carole Cadwallader on Putin. on 22:48 - Mar 1 by Ewan_Oozami |
Yes, I know this, that's why I all do my own research amongst many outlets and sources, left, right and neutral.
The thing is, if one outlet says Russian influence is greatly exaggerated, and another says, no it isn't exaggerated, and here's the proof, I wouldn't neccessarily regard those outlets as both being equally valid, for that particular story. In another case, it might be the other way round - looking for the weight of evidence is important, especially in this post-truth world... |
Yes I completely agree with you, that's why I use as many different sources as possible before I decide what is nearest the 'truth'. Of course if new information subsequently comes to light I may change my stance on certain news story's and that's the way it should be. [Post edited 1 Mar 2022 22:59]
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| Brilliant stuff here by Carole Cadwallader on Putin. on 23:00 - Mar 1 with 901 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| Brilliant stuff here by Carole Cadwallader on Putin. on 22:23 - Mar 1 by Enigma_Blue |
Numerous sources, and not just the usual suspects of MSM although they are sometimes a good starting pount. Al jazeera, Novara media, UK Column, Mayhar Tousi, Vox political, Off Guardian are some of the alternatives I use that you may or may not have heard of. |
Yep all perfectly reasonable sources, I would add Byline Times, Bywire, Private Eye and The Register (although that does have a couple of agendas that need watching)...I also read/watch some MSM as well...I follow a number of economic journos on Twitter, and a couple of right-wing monitor accounts, oh, and of course Owen Jones! :-) | |
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| Brilliant stuff here by Carole Cadwallader on Putin. on 23:04 - Mar 1 with 894 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Brilliant stuff here by Carole Cadwallader on Putin. on 22:41 - Mar 1 by Ewan_Oozami |
The thing is, the people who aren't on SM hear stuff from people who are, and SM does influence what MSM media present, which Brexit voters do see - and we're not just talking about Brexit voters - and I personally (liberal though I might be) would certainly not brush off all the things that I would prefer not to have happened as gullible people being led astray, it's far more insiduous than that, it has affected our whole US/UK culture over the past 20 or so years. Look at the political discourse, the polarisation of debate, the monetisation of, well, everything!
As for players more powerful than Russia, who could they be? And what would their game be? It could be anything. It could be China trying trying to say they're not abad as everyone else makes out? It could be the US, look at the rise of the alt-right there? Rich people throughout the world trying to hang on to their fortunes? Multi-national corporations and their marketing and advertising departments trying to convince us to buy more stuff? The anti-climate-change lobby trying to protect their fossil fuel interests?
As you say, you probably make a conscious decision to avoid much of that spiel, which is a very wise move, but it also means you don't tend to see much of what you might regard as obvious BS, but which someone else might take as validation of their mindset.
All I want is for people to be more aware of what they're being shown, why they're being shown it, and who ultimately gains from it. |
It seems to me that social media and data mining continues a decades old trend of promoting selfish individualism and consumerism as opposed to Self reaffirming community based ideals. A broken economic model is in its death throes pitting powerful forces against each other as they attempt to cling on to what remains of a diminishing pot of what should have been public wealth. Here's hoping we don't get sucked in to enabling our masters and betters to use us all as pawns in their powerplays.....I am not hopeful!!
Regarding the last sentence, I do what I can to make sure Junior is well aware of the pitfalls of social media and data mining but I think she's probably way ahead of me. |  |
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| Brilliant stuff here by Carole Cadwallader on Putin. on 23:11 - Mar 1 with 879 views | Enigma_Blue |
| Brilliant stuff here by Carole Cadwallader on Putin. on 23:00 - Mar 1 by Ewan_Oozami |
Yep all perfectly reasonable sources, I would add Byline Times, Bywire, Private Eye and The Register (although that does have a couple of agendas that need watching)...I also read/watch some MSM as well...I follow a number of economic journos on Twitter, and a couple of right-wing monitor accounts, oh, and of course Owen Jones! :-) |
Yes I have used the Byline times on occasion. The trouble is we live in an age of misinformation. When people talk about misinformation they usually refer to social media and yes there is a lot of misinformation on SM but there is also an awful lot from supposedly 'reliable ' MSM sources as well. I think both social media and MSM take advantage of the fact that most people are either too busy or too lazy to get their information from multiple sources. That's the big downside, it is very time consuming using multiple sources. [Post edited 1 Mar 2022 23:13]
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| Brilliant stuff here by Carole Cadwallader on Putin. on 23:27 - Mar 1 with 841 views | monytowbray |
| Brilliant stuff here by Carole Cadwallader on Putin. on 23:11 - Mar 1 by Enigma_Blue |
Yes I have used the Byline times on occasion. The trouble is we live in an age of misinformation. When people talk about misinformation they usually refer to social media and yes there is a lot of misinformation on SM but there is also an awful lot from supposedly 'reliable ' MSM sources as well. I think both social media and MSM take advantage of the fact that most people are either too busy or too lazy to get their information from multiple sources. That's the big downside, it is very time consuming using multiple sources. [Post edited 1 Mar 2022 23:13]
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Unicorn Riot and OpenDemocracy are pretty decent too.
I usually follow the journalists directly these days, easier to do. My Twitter feed is a binfire though, as I also follow some of the worst of the worst. Andy Ngo and Darren Grimes boil my piss on the regular but Know Your Enemy and all that. |  |
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| Brilliant stuff here by Carole Cadwallader on Putin. on 23:34 - Mar 1 with 834 views | Enigma_Blue |
| Brilliant stuff here by Carole Cadwallader on Putin. on 23:27 - Mar 1 by monytowbray |
Unicorn Riot and OpenDemocracy are pretty decent too.
I usually follow the journalists directly these days, easier to do. My Twitter feed is a binfire though, as I also follow some of the worst of the worst. Andy Ngo and Darren Grimes boil my piss on the regular but Know Your Enemy and all that. |
Lol l yes I know what you mean. I don't use Twitter and never will it's just not for me, Same goes with Facebook, Instagram, Getter and all those social media platforms. Occasionally I might read a Tweet when someone posts one on here but that's about it. [Post edited 1 Mar 2022 23:37]
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| Brilliant stuff here by Carole Cadwallader on Putin. on 07:23 - Mar 2 with 760 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Brilliant stuff here by Carole Cadwallader on Putin. on 21:38 - Mar 1 by monytowbray |
Oh my god, teeing it out the park here.
WHAT IF I TOLD YOU CAROLE CADWALLADA IS IN THE GREAT HACK AND MUCH OF THE STORY IS ABOUT HER INSIGHT? |
If enough people watch it, Carole Cadwalladr might even become well known enough for people to spell her name correctly |  |
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| Brilliant stuff here by Carole Cadwallader on Putin. on 09:30 - Mar 2 with 703 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Brilliant stuff here by Carole Cadwallader on Putin. on 15:28 - Mar 1 by monytowbray |
We finally get to live in the reality of an information war rather than pretending it isn't happening. Which honestly, is anxiety inducing and frustrating when you've been living in hypernormalisation about it the last few years.
The challenge was the wording and that's how they smeared it. Those who took Russian money laughed and suggested she implied Russians directly messed with votes, which was never the case. It was subversive dark money, being used to manipulate political will via ads and algo gaming on a closed end private platform (Facebook mainly, although Twitter/Google has plenty to answer for too). Whether it worked or not (subjective, but I'd say it did largely) is not the point, which was again another dismissive point made by the right wing elites keen to smear her.
I should add, it's not just Russian acts of cyber war. I don't even think we are in a conflict with Russia in anything but how the geographics/timing fell. We're in a class war against the super rich protecting their assets as disaster capitalism/the climate emergency bites.
Mercers, Manafort, Bannon, Nix and Thiel is where I'd guess the chain starts. Farage, Trump, Johnson are puppets. Grimes, Carlson and Fox make useful mouth pieces with shared financial interests. Russia simply used the greed of the West to it's advantage (China is doing the same). At this point money and wealth is a threat to national security, it has been for years though.
It'll be interesting if we take this web out to the cleaners how much reach extreme right wing opinion will get after if funding/data vanishes.
Cut the head off the snake.
Who needs conspiracy theories and Qanon when the truth is odder and messier?! [Post edited 1 Mar 2022 15:32]
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What I don't understand, if Russia has successfully waded a cyber war, why are they marching into Ukraine now and uniting most of the West and other parts of the world against them?
Surely they should've used their cyber skills to get us all hating Ukraine before this? |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Brilliant stuff here by Carole Cadwallader on Putin. on 09:33 - Mar 2 with 687 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| Brilliant stuff here by Carole Cadwallader on Putin. on 09:30 - Mar 2 by The_Flashing_Smile |
What I don't understand, if Russia has successfully waded a cyber war, why are they marching into Ukraine now and uniting most of the West and other parts of the world against them?
Surely they should've used their cyber skills to get us all hating Ukraine before this? |
They leave that to their influencers in the West, who are not doing a very good job apparently... | |
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| Brilliant stuff here by Carole Cadwallader on Putin. on 09:51 - Mar 2 with 665 views | bluelagos |
| Brilliant stuff here by Carole Cadwallader on Putin. on 09:30 - Mar 2 by The_Flashing_Smile |
What I don't understand, if Russia has successfully waded a cyber war, why are they marching into Ukraine now and uniting most of the West and other parts of the world against them?
Surely they should've used their cyber skills to get us all hating Ukraine before this? |
The good news is rather than expecting the good people of Twtd to understand/explain it all - anyone wanting to know more can sign the petition to get a public inquiry into exactly how much Russian interference there has been.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/609388 |  |
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| Brilliant stuff here by Carole Cadwallader on Putin. on 10:00 - Mar 2 with 642 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Brilliant stuff here by Carole Cadwallader on Putin. on 09:51 - Mar 2 by bluelagos |
The good news is rather than expecting the good people of Twtd to understand/explain it all - anyone wanting to know more can sign the petition to get a public inquiry into exactly how much Russian interference there has been.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/609388 |
Slightly to the side of my point though isn't it? If they have had influence, and have won a cyber war against us, then why is everyone now against them? | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Brilliant stuff here by Carole Cadwallader on Putin. on 10:10 - Mar 2 with 610 views | monytowbray |
| Brilliant stuff here by Carole Cadwallader on Putin. on 10:00 - Mar 2 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Slightly to the side of my point though isn't it? If they have had influence, and have won a cyber war against us, then why is everyone now against them? |
No one said they “won” a cyber war. It’s not ended yet.
I said in another post the reasons on this thread. There’s one that’s got an ABCD list on it on page 2 I think. I’m on my phone so lazy haha. | |
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| Brilliant stuff here by Carole Cadwallader on Putin. on 10:15 - Mar 2 with 587 views | monytowbray |
| Brilliant stuff here by Carole Cadwallader on Putin. on 07:23 - Mar 2 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
If enough people watch it, Carole Cadwalladr might even become well known enough for people to spell her name correctly |
It’s that f**king R with no vowel that gets me every time.
Curse of living in a world with spell check, I’m lazy with grammar these days. | |
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| Brilliant stuff here by Carole Cadwallader on Putin. on 10:18 - Mar 2 with 577 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Brilliant stuff here by Carole Cadwallader on Putin. on 10:10 - Mar 2 by monytowbray |
No one said they “won” a cyber war. It’s not ended yet.
I said in another post the reasons on this thread. There’s one that’s got an ABCD list on it on page 2 I think. I’m on my phone so lazy haha. |
"Because the first offensive in the Great Information War was from 2014-2022. And Putin won. And he won by convincing us it wasn't even a war." - Carole Cadwalladr, in the thread in the OP.
EDIT: Can't see any reasons on this thread about why they're failing re Ukraine. No idea what you mean about an ABCD list. [Post edited 2 Mar 2022 10:22]
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| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Brilliant stuff here by Carole Cadwallader on Putin. on 10:22 - Mar 2 with 569 views | monytowbray |
| Brilliant stuff here by Carole Cadwallader on Putin. on 09:33 - Mar 2 by Ewan_Oozami |
They leave that to their influencers in the West, who are not doing a very good job apparently... |
Putin’s mistake was placing his eggs in the baskets of populists who lack a brain and a clean slate.
Trump and Johnson’s corruption may be easy to hide or censor in Russia, but over here it was a continual surrounding noise to anyone paying attention. I guess when you need sleaze to get kompromat though that narrows down your candidates.
Further to Dolly’s Q, I think another reason it is collapsing is the problem with surrounding yourself with subservience and getting complacent with ego. Putin genuinely believed Ukraine would be a walk in the park - so far every step in Foundations of Geopolitics has been a first batter home run with very little pushback. | |
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| Brilliant stuff here by Carole Cadwallader on Putin. on 10:24 - Mar 2 with 561 views | monytowbray |
| Brilliant stuff here by Carole Cadwallader on Putin. on 10:18 - Mar 2 by The_Flashing_Smile |
"Because the first offensive in the Great Information War was from 2014-2022. And Putin won. And he won by convincing us it wasn't even a war." - Carole Cadwalladr, in the thread in the OP.
EDIT: Can't see any reasons on this thread about why they're failing re Ukraine. No idea what you mean about an ABCD list. [Post edited 2 Mar 2022 10:22]
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I’d say poor choice of wording from CC but Twitter limitations.
He certainly won that battle period, largely because no one even knew we were being attacked, the war isn’t over though.
Also, page 2, my response to Banks :) [Post edited 2 Mar 2022 10:26]
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| Brilliant stuff here by Carole Cadwallader on Putin. on 10:30 - Mar 2 with 553 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Brilliant stuff here by Carole Cadwallader on Putin. on 10:24 - Mar 2 by monytowbray |
I’d say poor choice of wording from CC but Twitter limitations.
He certainly won that battle period, largely because no one even knew we were being attacked, the war isn’t over though.
Also, page 2, my response to Banks :) [Post edited 2 Mar 2022 10:26]
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To be fair she did say "first offensive."
Anyway, the fact remains that however good they've been at persuading 'us' they've been rubbish in regard to Ukraine. You'd have thought they would've been sharing disinformation all over the place about the country... rather than completely out of the blue and illogically claiming Ukraine's being run by Nazis before marching in.
Rather than the West thinking, "Well, they are Nazis" we're all thinking, "Hang on, what?!?" and then uniting in crippling sanctions and sending weapons.
Not a lot of this adds up. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Brilliant stuff here by Carole Cadwallader on Putin. on 10:52 - Mar 2 with 519 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| Brilliant stuff here by Carole Cadwallader on Putin. on 10:30 - Mar 2 by The_Flashing_Smile |
To be fair she did say "first offensive."
Anyway, the fact remains that however good they've been at persuading 'us' they've been rubbish in regard to Ukraine. You'd have thought they would've been sharing disinformation all over the place about the country... rather than completely out of the blue and illogically claiming Ukraine's being run by Nazis before marching in.
Rather than the West thinking, "Well, they are Nazis" we're all thinking, "Hang on, what?!?" and then uniting in crippling sanctions and sending weapons.
Not a lot of this adds up. |
"You'd have thought they would've been sharing disinformation all over the place about the country" - how do you know they haven't? :-) | |
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