| Didn't mean it, your honour, It was only bantz. on 11:26 - Mar 23 with 621 views | leitrimblue |
| Didn't mean it, your honour, It was only bantz. on 11:17 - Mar 23 by GlasgowBlue |
If a park shoots an unarmed innocent civilian then clearly there is a murder charge to answer.
At the trial mitigating circumstances can be provided. We’re shots fired at the soldiers first? If they are poorly trained to react in such circumstances then there is a case for the government if the day to also answer.
So no, I don’t support the killing of innocent civilians by British soldiers. And I would put them Through due process.
But defending the actions of the IRA by saying what about the paras is whatabouterry. The IRA were a murderous terrorist organisation. As were the UVF and other loyalist paramilitary groups.
Back to the op. There is no excuse for racial abuse aimed at McLean. It’s wrong. Full stop. [Post edited 23 Mar 2022 11:18]
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You can call it whatabouterry if you like, but I was using your own guidelines of what constitutes a terrorist act.
As for your 2nd paragraph, you would be happy for any Russian soldiers accused of War crimes to be tried back in Russia? Where things such as were the Russian solders fired on first can be clarified by a Russian Court?
Finally, would you then add the paras to the list of murderous terrorist organisations? |  | |  |
| Didn't mean it, your honour, It was only bantz. on 11:34 - Mar 23 with 579 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Didn't mean it, your honour, It was only bantz. on 11:26 - Mar 23 by leitrimblue |
You can call it whatabouterry if you like, but I was using your own guidelines of what constitutes a terrorist act.
As for your 2nd paragraph, you would be happy for any Russian soldiers accused of War crimes to be tried back in Russia? Where things such as were the Russian solders fired on first can be clarified by a Russian Court?
Finally, would you then add the paras to the list of murderous terrorist organisations? |
You’re getting silly now. Where else would you expect a soldier to be tried. If a crime was committed in Gt Britain then he would be tried by a British court.
That there weren’t any criminal charges brought at the time is wrong. I’m nit defending the actions of the British soldiers whilst you appear to be justifying the actions of the IRA. [Post edited 23 Mar 2022 11:36]
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| Didn't mean it, your honour, It was only bantz. on 11:39 - Mar 23 with 574 views | monytowbray |
Sadly I can’t see Glasser’s posts anymore so I’ll have a stab…
Is he reciting his 30 year out-of-date political propaganda with a good dose of Corbyn slurs in relation to the English oppression of Northern Ireland? |  |
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| Didn't mean it, your honour, It was only bantz. on 11:46 - Mar 23 with 558 views | MattinLondon |
| Didn't mean it, your honour, It was only bantz. on 11:39 - Mar 23 by monytowbray |
Sadly I can’t see Glasser’s posts anymore so I’ll have a stab…
Is he reciting his 30 year out-of-date political propaganda with a good dose of Corbyn slurs in relation to the English oppression of Northern Ireland? |
How come you can’t see his posts? |  | | |
| Didn't mean it, your honour, It was only bantz. on 11:48 - Mar 23 with 558 views | bluelagos |
| Didn't mean it, your honour, It was only bantz. on 10:06 - Mar 23 by leitrimblue |
Yer, I imagine it's exactly that. Though if anyone does fancy a crack at explaining how support for the IRA makes you more of a terrorist loving c-unit then those supporting the ANC or Ukrainians fighting against the invasion and occupation of their country I promise to mark it fairly |
So for me, the ANC and those in Ukraine didn't/don't have a democratic route to make their arguments/achieve their goals.
The IRA had access to stand for parliament and to achieve their goals through democratic means. Indeed nationalist politicians now share power in NI and could well achieve a united Ireland in the next 20 - 30 years.
So as imperfect as NI democracy was, as appalling as the Catholics were treated over decades, I don't think taking up arms can ever be fully justified. Inevitably taking up arms did more than target the British Army and they opted for bombs that are in their nature indiscriminate.
(For the record I share your disgust at the actions of the paras on Bloody Sunday and the failure to hold them to account for those actions is a stain on Britain imho) [Post edited 23 Mar 2022 11:51]
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| Didn't mean it, your honour, It was only bantz. on 11:49 - Mar 23 with 549 views | bluelagos |
| Didn't mean it, your honour, It was only bantz. on 11:46 - Mar 23 by MattinLondon |
How come you can’t see his posts? |
He'll have him on ignore. | |
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| Didn't mean it, your honour, It was only bantz. on 11:49 - Mar 23 with 549 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Didn't mean it, your honour, It was only bantz. on 11:46 - Mar 23 by MattinLondon |
How come you can’t see his posts? |
Dolly wears a bag on his head - it's a new vegan trend. |  |
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| Didn't mean it, your honour, It was only bantz. on 11:51 - Mar 23 with 546 views | solemio |
| Didn't mean it, your honour, It was only bantz. on 10:59 - Mar 23 by leitrimblue |
So your definition of a terrorist is someone who goes to another country and kills and maims innocent civilians? So like the paras on bloody Sunday for example? |
This sounds to me like a definition of the spread of the British Empire. This country took over more countries against the wishes of their populations than any other in history. Please don't believe that this was done with little or no loss of life of the inhabitants of those countries.
It amazes me how infrequently this gets mentioned. |  | | |
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| Didn't mean it, your honour, It was only bantz. on 11:52 - Mar 23 with 546 views | MattinLondon |
| Didn't mean it, your honour, It was only bantz. on 11:49 - Mar 23 by bluelagos |
He'll have him on ignore. |
Oh, I thought Callis meant that GB specifically didn’t want him to view his posts. Didn’t think that was possible rather than Callis just having him on ignore. | | | |
| Didn't mean it, your honour, It was only bantz. on 11:56 - Mar 23 with 531 views | monytowbray |
| Didn't mean it, your honour, It was only bantz. on 11:49 - Mar 23 by bluelagos |
He'll have him on ignore. |
I have no one on ignore. It’s a forced block lol.
Apparently Glassers doesn’t like being reminded to own his own posting history. | |
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| Didn't mean it, your honour, It was only bantz. on 11:58 - Mar 23 with 533 views | MattinLondon |
| Didn't mean it, your honour, It was only bantz. on 11:56 - Mar 23 by monytowbray |
I have no one on ignore. It’s a forced block lol.
Apparently Glassers doesn’t like being reminded to own his own posting history. |
Personally I don’t understand why people resort to ignoring people. Don’t read their posts or don’t click on a thread that they start.
Forced block -didn’t realise that that was a thing. | | | |
| Didn't mean it, your honour, It was only bantz. on 12:00 - Mar 23 with 528 views | leitrimblue |
| Didn't mean it, your honour, It was only bantz. on 11:34 - Mar 23 by GlasgowBlue |
You’re getting silly now. Where else would you expect a soldier to be tried. If a crime was committed in Gt Britain then he would be tried by a British court.
That there weren’t any criminal charges brought at the time is wrong. I’m nit defending the actions of the British soldiers whilst you appear to be justifying the actions of the IRA. [Post edited 23 Mar 2022 11:36]
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I imagine a British soldier tried in a British court will give the victims of these crimes the same kinda zero justice that Ukrainian victims of a Russian atrocities will receive if Russia gets to try it's own war criminals.
I don't by any means justify all the actions of the IRA. The bombing of civilians is completely indefensible and achieves nothing.
Though I do have a bit of a understanding of Irish history and I do completely understand the historical context. And the right of people to support the liberation of their country by a hostile invader. Both historically in Ireland and currently in Ukraine | | | |
| Didn't mean it, your honour, It was only bantz. on 12:01 - Mar 23 with 521 views | bluelagos |
| Didn't mean it, your honour, It was only bantz. on 11:56 - Mar 23 by monytowbray |
I have no one on ignore. It’s a forced block lol.
Apparently Glassers doesn’t like being reminded to own his own posting history. |
A forced block? Glassers and/or Phil/Gav won't let you read his posts?
Tbf - on this thread he hasn't been mentioning Corbyn - rather making the point that when the IRA targeted mainland UK innocent people were killed. | |
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| Didn't mean it, your honour, It was only bantz. on 12:01 - Mar 23 with 507 views | monytowbray |
| Didn't mean it, your honour, It was only bantz. on 11:48 - Mar 23 by bluelagos |
So for me, the ANC and those in Ukraine didn't/don't have a democratic route to make their arguments/achieve their goals.
The IRA had access to stand for parliament and to achieve their goals through democratic means. Indeed nationalist politicians now share power in NI and could well achieve a united Ireland in the next 20 - 30 years.
So as imperfect as NI democracy was, as appalling as the Catholics were treated over decades, I don't think taking up arms can ever be fully justified. Inevitably taking up arms did more than target the British Army and they opted for bombs that are in their nature indiscriminate.
(For the record I share your disgust at the actions of the paras on Bloody Sunday and the failure to hold them to account for those actions is a stain on Britain imho) [Post edited 23 Mar 2022 11:51]
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The IRA was a product of oppression, discrimination, violence and exploitation over centuries by the Brits.
There’s a venn diagram as a circle which overlaps people who don’t understand history with people enraged about the removal of statues. And it exists largely through the illusion of patriotism. | |
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| Didn't mean it, your honour, It was only bantz. on 12:03 - Mar 23 with 505 views | leitrimblue |
| Didn't mean it, your honour, It was only bantz. on 11:39 - Mar 23 by monytowbray |
Sadly I can’t see Glasser’s posts anymore so I’ll have a stab…
Is he reciting his 30 year out-of-date political propaganda with a good dose of Corbyn slurs in relation to the English oppression of Northern Ireland? |
No one has mentioned the C word yet | | | |
| Didn't mean it, your honour, It was only bantz. on 12:03 - Mar 23 with 507 views | MattinLondon |
| Didn't mean it, your honour, It was only bantz. on 12:01 - Mar 23 by bluelagos |
A forced block? Glassers and/or Phil/Gav won't let you read his posts?
Tbf - on this thread he hasn't been mentioning Corbyn - rather making the point that when the IRA targeted mainland UK innocent people were killed. |
But if someone doesn’t sign in then that person will be able to read all other posters threads/comments forced block or not. Just seems a bit pointless. | | | |
| Didn't mean it, your honour, It was only bantz. on 12:04 - Mar 23 with 505 views | monytowbray |
| Didn't mean it, your honour, It was only bantz. on 12:01 - Mar 23 by bluelagos |
A forced block? Glassers and/or Phil/Gav won't let you read his posts?
Tbf - on this thread he hasn't been mentioning Corbyn - rather making the point that when the IRA targeted mainland UK innocent people were killed. |
There’s a whole other half of a history book he conveniently skips over. No surprise, he’s been at this act for as long as I’ve posted here on many topics.
I had no idea forced blocks were a thing either. He doesn’t like being reminded of which side he’s took throughout recent history. | |
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| Didn't mean it, your honour, It was only bantz. on 12:09 - Mar 23 with 482 views | monytowbray |
| Didn't mean it, your honour, It was only bantz. on 12:00 - Mar 23 by leitrimblue |
I imagine a British soldier tried in a British court will give the victims of these crimes the same kinda zero justice that Ukrainian victims of a Russian atrocities will receive if Russia gets to try it's own war criminals.
I don't by any means justify all the actions of the IRA. The bombing of civilians is completely indefensible and achieves nothing.
Though I do have a bit of a understanding of Irish history and I do completely understand the historical context. And the right of people to support the liberation of their country by a hostile invader. Both historically in Ireland and currently in Ukraine |
I bet Glassers has some incredible views on Bobby Sands. | |
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| Didn't mean it, your honour, It was only bantz. on 12:19 - Mar 23 with 480 views | leitrimblue |
| Didn't mean it, your honour, It was only bantz. on 11:48 - Mar 23 by bluelagos |
So for me, the ANC and those in Ukraine didn't/don't have a democratic route to make their arguments/achieve their goals.
The IRA had access to stand for parliament and to achieve their goals through democratic means. Indeed nationalist politicians now share power in NI and could well achieve a united Ireland in the next 20 - 30 years.
So as imperfect as NI democracy was, as appalling as the Catholics were treated over decades, I don't think taking up arms can ever be fully justified. Inevitably taking up arms did more than target the British Army and they opted for bombs that are in their nature indiscriminate.
(For the record I share your disgust at the actions of the paras on Bloody Sunday and the failure to hold them to account for those actions is a stain on Britain imho) [Post edited 23 Mar 2022 11:51]
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Hi there Lagos, I guess when you say the RA had ways of achieving their goals through democratic means you are talking quite recently historically?
Your 3rd paragraph I have to disagree with. As much as we might not like it, it's for those oppressed and occupied peoples to decide on the best course of action in order to achieve their freedom.
Few years ago I had the displeasure of talking to and interviewing 3 members of the British military who took part in the bloody Sunday massacre. (2 from the paras and one from some unit that repairs and drives military vehicles etc can't remember that units name). I wish I had recorded it. It was some of the most disgusting, horrendous, heartless sh1te I've ever heard in my life. | | | |
| Didn't mean it, your honour, It was only bantz. on 12:27 - Mar 23 with 459 views | leitrimblue |
| Didn't mean it, your honour, It was only bantz. on 12:09 - Mar 23 by monytowbray |
I bet Glassers has some incredible views on Bobby Sands. |
Due to his minimal understanding of historical context, I guess he just as him down as another murderer | | | |
| Didn't mean it, your honour, It was only bantz. on 12:33 - Mar 23 with 452 views | mikeybloo88 |
| Didn't mean it, your honour, It was only bantz. on 12:00 - Mar 23 by leitrimblue |
I imagine a British soldier tried in a British court will give the victims of these crimes the same kinda zero justice that Ukrainian victims of a Russian atrocities will receive if Russia gets to try it's own war criminals.
I don't by any means justify all the actions of the IRA. The bombing of civilians is completely indefensible and achieves nothing.
Though I do have a bit of a understanding of Irish history and I do completely understand the historical context. And the right of people to support the liberation of their country by a hostile invader. Both historically in Ireland and currently in Ukraine |
NI is home to a million Protestants who have been there for hundreds of years....can’t recall them asking to be liberated by anyone or do their views not count. Plenty of room down South for those who didn’t want to be in the North...you’re an apologist for terrorists and comparing Ukranian resistance to the IRA is beyond laughable. |  | | |
| Didn't mean it, your honour, It was only bantz. on 12:43 - Mar 23 with 429 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Didn't mean it, your honour, It was only bantz. on 12:27 - Mar 23 by leitrimblue |
Due to his minimal understanding of historical context, I guess he just as him down as another murderer |
Who are you talking about? Adams? McGuiness?
My 'minimal understanding of historical context' seems to be on the same page as Lagos. That the actions of some british soldiers were criminal and they should have been prosecuted. That the UVF and other loyalist paramilitary groups were terrorists. No more and no less. That the IRA bombing campaign on mainland Britain, which targeted children and innocent civilians were acts of terror. That there were democratic routes for nationalists to go down to achieve a united Ireland. A route that people like John Hume and Seamus Mallon took, which ended in the Good Friday Agreement.
Yu seem to be reading what you want to read rather than what I've actuay posted, which has been balanced.
If you are talking about Martin McGuiness then my post from the day he died is a matter of record. 5th post down.
https://www.twtd.co.uk/forum/401865/page:1
Your up arrow back then suggests you didn’t think I had a minimal understanding of historical context. [Post edited 23 Mar 2022 12:47]
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| Didn't mean it, your honour, It was only bantz. on 12:47 - Mar 23 with 432 views | leitrimblue |
| Didn't mean it, your honour, It was only bantz. on 12:33 - Mar 23 by mikeybloo88 |
NI is home to a million Protestants who have been there for hundreds of years....can’t recall them asking to be liberated by anyone or do their views not count. Plenty of room down South for those who didn’t want to be in the North...you’re an apologist for terrorists and comparing Ukranian resistance to the IRA is beyond laughable. |
Feck me! Let me try an explain the basics to you Micky. If Russia 'plants' a million Russuans in the East of Ukraine are you suggesting that their views should count equally to those of the Ukrainians?
This is your best line 'plenty of room down south for those who didn't want to be in the North'. I would suggest there is plenty of room on the 'mainland' for people who don't want to live in Ireland and whose loyalties lay elsewhere.
Your last paragraph is good as well. I would suggest comparing those that have had to defend their land from an aggressive occupier to another nation attempting to defend their land from an aggressive occupier is the most natural comparison to make | | | |
| Didn't mean it, your honour, It was only bantz. on 12:48 - Mar 23 with 426 views | leitrimblue |
| Didn't mean it, your honour, It was only bantz. on 12:43 - Mar 23 by GlasgowBlue |
Who are you talking about? Adams? McGuiness?
My 'minimal understanding of historical context' seems to be on the same page as Lagos. That the actions of some british soldiers were criminal and they should have been prosecuted. That the UVF and other loyalist paramilitary groups were terrorists. No more and no less. That the IRA bombing campaign on mainland Britain, which targeted children and innocent civilians were acts of terror. That there were democratic routes for nationalists to go down to achieve a united Ireland. A route that people like John Hume and Seamus Mallon took, which ended in the Good Friday Agreement.
Yu seem to be reading what you want to read rather than what I've actuay posted, which has been balanced.
If you are talking about Martin McGuiness then my post from the day he died is a matter of record. 5th post down.
https://www.twtd.co.uk/forum/401865/page:1
Your up arrow back then suggests you didn’t think I had a minimal understanding of historical context. [Post edited 23 Mar 2022 12:47]
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Was Bobby Sands | | | |
| Didn't mean it, your honour, It was only bantz. on 12:57 - Mar 23 with 405 views | Skip_Intro |
| Didn't mean it, your honour, It was only bantz. on 12:47 - Mar 23 by leitrimblue |
Feck me! Let me try an explain the basics to you Micky. If Russia 'plants' a million Russuans in the East of Ukraine are you suggesting that their views should count equally to those of the Ukrainians?
This is your best line 'plenty of room down south for those who didn't want to be in the North'. I would suggest there is plenty of room on the 'mainland' for people who don't want to live in Ireland and whose loyalties lay elsewhere.
Your last paragraph is good as well. I would suggest comparing those that have had to defend their land from an aggressive occupier to another nation attempting to defend their land from an aggressive occupier is the most natural comparison to make |
so you're suggesting that the people of Northern Ireland aren't Irish and that their views are less valid becasue of this? |  | | |
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