| Managing players the right way and wrong way 10:23 - Mar 29 with 3241 views | Churchman |
There is a piece in the EADT today about Luke Woolfenden.
https://www.eadt.co.uk/sport/ipswich-town/itfc-big-interview-with-luke-woolfende
Two things struck me about it. Firstly, how fortunate it’s been that John McGreal has been at the club. I suspect he will be off to manage elsewhere at some point soon, but I really hope he stays at the club.
Secondly, it’s crystal clear to me now just how poor Cook was. He came here with a good reputation, success under his belt and I thought he would be great for the club. Wrong. He appears to be an ‘in or out’ merchant. Black and white. I’ve no problem with decisiveness, my way or the highway etc, but you have to be open minded and look for different ways to achieve an end. He was totally wrong for us.
To leave players out in the cold like Woolfenden, without looking to truly see what they can do was a criminal waste. Add in Donacien and what KM has got out of Jackson and you wonder just what’s been going on at this club. The difference between now and 4 months ago on the playing side is chalk and cheese.
Thank goodness the Lambert, Hurst, Cook era of epic incompetence is over. [Post edited 29 Mar 2022 10:24]
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| Managing players the right way and wrong way on 10:45 - Mar 29 with 2520 views | heavyweight |
That's a very interesting piece.
Two surprising things of note:
Wolfenden has played under 7 Managers! OK 2 have been caretakers
Only 10 academy graduates have made 100 appearances for town in the last 22+ years |  | | |
| Managing players the right way and wrong way on 11:01 - Mar 29 with 2463 views | Churchman |
| Managing players the right way and wrong way on 10:45 - Mar 29 by heavyweight |
That's a very interesting piece.
Two surprising things of note:
Wolfenden has played under 7 Managers! OK 2 have been caretakers
Only 10 academy graduates have made 100 appearances for town in the last 22+ years |
Yes, that stat about only 10 academy graduates making 100 appearances in all those years was extraordinary. Our Academy definitely needs looking at, but after the decay years I am hoping the emerging structure at the club also helps it operate better than it has.
This is slightly at odds with what KD had to say, so I’ll be interested to see if this is discussed at all at the forum. | | | |
| Managing players the right way and wrong way on 11:39 - Mar 29 with 2359 views | Darth_Koont |
To be fair, Cook had no problem bringing Donacien in from the cold and made him his starting right back.
And Jackson became an option when McKenna had already been trying to get a more consistent tune out of Bonne, Norwood and Pigott.
And on top of that I don’t think in a CB pairing there was a convincing enough case for Woolfenden to be ahead of Edmundson, Nsiala or even Burgess. The 3 CBs has been the making of him – and hopefully if we do go back to a 2 we’ll see that in more confident and commanding performances.
It’s a good lesson for fans (and players themselves) that things change and it’s about being in the mix and ready to go when they do. Donacien, Woolfenden, Jackson and now Burgess are good examples of that. |  |
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| Managing players the right way and wrong way on 11:54 - Mar 29 with 2329 views | Dubtractor |
| Managing players the right way and wrong way on 11:39 - Mar 29 by Darth_Koont |
To be fair, Cook had no problem bringing Donacien in from the cold and made him his starting right back.
And Jackson became an option when McKenna had already been trying to get a more consistent tune out of Bonne, Norwood and Pigott.
And on top of that I don’t think in a CB pairing there was a convincing enough case for Woolfenden to be ahead of Edmundson, Nsiala or even Burgess. The 3 CBs has been the making of him – and hopefully if we do go back to a 2 we’ll see that in more confident and commanding performances.
It’s a good lesson for fans (and players themselves) that things change and it’s about being in the mix and ready to go when they do. Donacien, Woolfenden, Jackson and now Burgess are good examples of that. |
There was no scenario where toto was a better option than Woolfy.
And not picking him is one thing, banishing him to the u23s is another, especially when you now see just what he is capable of with proper management. |  |
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| Managing players the right way and wrong way on 12:01 - Mar 29 with 2280 views | Churchman |
| Managing players the right way and wrong way on 11:54 - Mar 29 by Dubtractor |
There was no scenario where toto was a better option than Woolfy.
And not picking him is one thing, banishing him to the u23s is another, especially when you now see just what he is capable of with proper management. |
I think this is the key point. Selection or otherwise is one thing. Banishment/bomb squad/u23s, call it what you will, is quite another. Its all about how people are managed. In the case of Cook, Lambert and others, not very well. | | | |
| Managing players the right way and wrong way on 12:08 - Mar 29 with 2246 views | mylittletown |
| Managing players the right way and wrong way on 10:45 - Mar 29 by heavyweight |
That's a very interesting piece.
Two surprising things of note:
Wolfenden has played under 7 Managers! OK 2 have been caretakers
Only 10 academy graduates have made 100 appearances for town in the last 22+ years |
The 10 academy graduates making 100+ appearances thing is a bit 'damn lies and statistics'
Three of arguably our five highest quality academy graduates in that time, Dyer, Ambrose, and Bramble all made less than 100 appearances for ITFC because we sold them. |  | | |
| Managing players the right way and wrong way on 12:29 - Mar 29 with 2158 views | Darth_Koont |
| Managing players the right way and wrong way on 11:54 - Mar 29 by Dubtractor |
There was no scenario where toto was a better option than Woolfy.
And not picking him is one thing, banishing him to the u23s is another, especially when you now see just what he is capable of with proper management. |
I don’t agree. Toto is a much more physical CB who could dominate strikers. Woolf has other attributes and a higher ceiling outside the rough and tumble of League One.
We can’t rewrite history to pretend that Woolf should have been the first CB on the team sheet all along because the new system suits him down to the ground. Ditto Donacien. | |
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| Managing players the right way and wrong way on 12:32 - Mar 29 with 2132 views | PhilTWTD |
| Managing players the right way and wrong way on 11:54 - Mar 29 by Dubtractor |
There was no scenario where toto was a better option than Woolfy.
And not picking him is one thing, banishing him to the u23s is another, especially when you now see just what he is capable of with proper management. |
I don't think Cook rated him at all. Other managers have said how laid-back he is and perhaps that hd an impact. Also, as I said in a thread yesterday, it's interesting that Woolfy seems to excel in a back three but has tended to be out of the side when managers are playing back fours. May just be a coincidence, but thought it was notable that he made his mark previously when we were playing a back three and is doing well again in the same system. |  | | |
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| Managing players the right way and wrong way on 12:33 - Mar 29 with 2124 views | itfcjoe |
| Managing players the right way and wrong way on 11:39 - Mar 29 by Darth_Koont |
To be fair, Cook had no problem bringing Donacien in from the cold and made him his starting right back.
And Jackson became an option when McKenna had already been trying to get a more consistent tune out of Bonne, Norwood and Pigott.
And on top of that I don’t think in a CB pairing there was a convincing enough case for Woolfenden to be ahead of Edmundson, Nsiala or even Burgess. The 3 CBs has been the making of him – and hopefully if we do go back to a 2 we’ll see that in more confident and commanding performances.
It’s a good lesson for fans (and players themselves) that things change and it’s about being in the mix and ready to go when they do. Donacien, Woolfenden, Jackson and now Burgess are good examples of that. |
There has never been a case for Nsiala to start ahead of Woolfenden in a 3 or a 4 for a team with any hopes of building a footballing side - he's just a poor footballer who is a decent defender. Never good enough for where we are let alone where we wanted to go.
The fact that within 2 weeks of being here Woolfie had nailed a place down and Nsiala had been given away on a freebie sums it up, that should have happened in the summer
And Jackson was straight into the 18 and appearing of the bench for second game in charge vs Gillingham [Post edited 29 Mar 2022 12:34]
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| Managing players the right way and wrong way on 12:37 - Mar 29 with 2095 views | Darth_Koont |
| Managing players the right way and wrong way on 12:33 - Mar 29 by itfcjoe |
There has never been a case for Nsiala to start ahead of Woolfenden in a 3 or a 4 for a team with any hopes of building a footballing side - he's just a poor footballer who is a decent defender. Never good enough for where we are let alone where we wanted to go.
The fact that within 2 weeks of being here Woolfie had nailed a place down and Nsiala had been given away on a freebie sums it up, that should have happened in the summer
And Jackson was straight into the 18 and appearing of the bench for second game in charge vs Gillingham [Post edited 29 Mar 2022 12:34]
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That’s nonsense though.
Take Nsiala out of the picture and the most comfortable CBs in the current system are Woolfenden, Donacien and Burgess. Go back to 2 CBs and Edmundson is ahead of all of them.
Toto’s pure defensive strengths rather than his ball-playing weaknesses also came more to the fore in a 2. Let’s not pretend otherwise. | |
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| Managing players the right way and wrong way on 12:39 - Mar 29 with 2070 views | PhilTWTD |
| Managing players the right way and wrong way on 12:01 - Mar 29 by Churchman |
I think this is the key point. Selection or otherwise is one thing. Banishment/bomb squad/u23s, call it what you will, is quite another. Its all about how people are managed. In the case of Cook, Lambert and others, not very well. |
Banishment to U23s is meant to give players a message - you're not wanted, find yourself another club! | | | |
| Managing players the right way and wrong way on 12:42 - Mar 29 with 2037 views | RobTheMonk |
Cook's rigid 4-2-3-1 did no favours to any of our squad.
Look at Morsy now; he's actually allowed to go marauding around rather than being stuck in that box with the centre backs that Cook loves |  | | |
| Managing players the right way and wrong way on 12:50 - Mar 29 with 1981 views | itfcjoe |
| Managing players the right way and wrong way on 12:37 - Mar 29 by Darth_Koont |
That’s nonsense though.
Take Nsiala out of the picture and the most comfortable CBs in the current system are Woolfenden, Donacien and Burgess. Go back to 2 CBs and Edmundson is ahead of all of them.
Toto’s pure defensive strengths rather than his ball-playing weaknesses also came more to the fore in a 2. Let’s not pretend otherwise. |
What sort of team did we want to be? One that could play football or one that couldn't - because there is only one option when Toto was in the team.
How many times did we need to let the opposition just not press him at all before Cook realised this and that we couldn't build anything from the back with such a weak footballer there.
It's not about shapes, it's about having the right types of footballers - there is a minimum technical quality you need to be in a footballing side - McKenna is playing the sort of football we thought we'd get under Cook. But he missed Richardson as evidencd by Wigan's promotion winning season under Cook (GA - 29) and Wigan's current season (GA - 32) | |
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| Managing players the right way and wrong way on 12:50 - Mar 29 with 1976 views | pointofblue |
| Managing players the right way and wrong way on 12:37 - Mar 29 by Darth_Koont |
That’s nonsense though.
Take Nsiala out of the picture and the most comfortable CBs in the current system are Woolfenden, Donacien and Burgess. Go back to 2 CBs and Edmundson is ahead of all of them.
Toto’s pure defensive strengths rather than his ball-playing weaknesses also came more to the fore in a 2. Let’s not pretend otherwise. |
Nsiala benefited by being one of Cook’s favourites, so was treated right and fairly - obviously that also helped him on the pitch. Woolfenden was a case of anything but and Cook definitely had a very defined view of the squad; either you were in favour or you were basically ignored. | |
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| Managing players the right way and wrong way on 12:59 - Mar 29 with 1902 views | Darth_Koont |
| Managing players the right way and wrong way on 12:50 - Mar 29 by itfcjoe |
What sort of team did we want to be? One that could play football or one that couldn't - because there is only one option when Toto was in the team.
How many times did we need to let the opposition just not press him at all before Cook realised this and that we couldn't build anything from the back with such a weak footballer there.
It's not about shapes, it's about having the right types of footballers - there is a minimum technical quality you need to be in a footballing side - McKenna is playing the sort of football we thought we'd get under Cook. But he missed Richardson as evidencd by Wigan's promotion winning season under Cook (GA - 29) and Wigan's current season (GA - 32) |
I think you’re trying to fluff your way around the elephant in the room. Namely that it’s the change in system that has been the biggest bonus for Woolfenden and his attributes as a player.
And overall, I think it works better for our squad so no complaints there. A few exceptions like Edmundson who’s more of a classic, physically dominating CB less so. But he’s first on the team sheet if we go back to a CB pairing, I’m sure you agree.
Edit: the change in system is also the best response to our less than clinical and stuttering attack. Now we can win 1-0 or at least avoid defeat rather than try to out score the opposition which was Cook’s approach but just didn’t pay off nearly enough given our streaky performances in the attacking third. [Post edited 29 Mar 2022 13:03]
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| Managing players the right way and wrong way on 12:59 - Mar 29 with 1893 views | PhilTWTD |
| Managing players the right way and wrong way on 12:08 - Mar 29 by mylittletown |
The 10 academy graduates making 100+ appearances thing is a bit 'damn lies and statistics'
Three of arguably our five highest quality academy graduates in that time, Dyer, Ambrose, and Bramble all made less than 100 appearances for ITFC because we sold them. |
Dyer did actually make more than 100 appearances but was before the academy started in 1998. | | | |
| Managing players the right way and wrong way on 13:03 - Mar 29 with 1855 views | Sharkey |
| Managing players the right way and wrong way on 12:01 - Mar 29 by Churchman |
I think this is the key point. Selection or otherwise is one thing. Banishment/bomb squad/u23s, call it what you will, is quite another. Its all about how people are managed. In the case of Cook, Lambert and others, not very well. |
Excuse my ignorance, but is 'bomb squad' a term used out in the big wide world, or was it a neologism cooked up for Cook's strategy?
I do think there is a more extreme version of 'bomb squad' than U23s, - when Lambert was at Colchester he had five players (including the ex-captain, Johny Jackson) not training with anyone at all. I think he did something similar when he arrived at Norwich.
Also, it used to be said that Cook and McGreal were old friends. You'd never know, would you, based on the last couple of years? |  | | |
| Managing players the right way and wrong way on 13:03 - Mar 29 with 1855 views | itfcjoe |
| Managing players the right way and wrong way on 12:59 - Mar 29 by Darth_Koont |
I think you’re trying to fluff your way around the elephant in the room. Namely that it’s the change in system that has been the biggest bonus for Woolfenden and his attributes as a player.
And overall, I think it works better for our squad so no complaints there. A few exceptions like Edmundson who’s more of a classic, physically dominating CB less so. But he’s first on the team sheet if we go back to a CB pairing, I’m sure you agree.
Edit: the change in system is also the best response to our less than clinical and stuttering attack. Now we can win 1-0 or at least avoid defeat rather than try to out score the opposition which was Cook’s approach but just didn’t pay off nearly enough given our streaky performances in the attacking third. [Post edited 29 Mar 2022 13:03]
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The elephant in the room is surely that Nsiala has spent the majority of his career at the bottom end of L1 for good reason, and that whilst Woolfie has weaknesses in elements of his game the previous manager elected to cast him aside rather than focus on the guy with the significantly higher ceiling.
Woolf says on day 1 John McGreal took over put his arm round him and told him he should be playing in a higher league, let alone for us | |
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| Managing players the right way and wrong way on 13:07 - Mar 29 with 1816 views | pointofblue |
| Managing players the right way and wrong way on 13:03 - Mar 29 by itfcjoe |
The elephant in the room is surely that Nsiala has spent the majority of his career at the bottom end of L1 for good reason, and that whilst Woolfie has weaknesses in elements of his game the previous manager elected to cast him aside rather than focus on the guy with the significantly higher ceiling.
Woolf says on day 1 John McGreal took over put his arm round him and told him he should be playing in a higher league, let alone for us |
“He focuses on what I can do, not what I can’t”.
Admittedly that was a comment by Jackson but the same can apply to Woolfenden. | |
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| Managing players the right way and wrong way on 13:09 - Mar 29 with 1806 views | Darth_Koont |
| Managing players the right way and wrong way on 13:03 - Mar 29 by itfcjoe |
The elephant in the room is surely that Nsiala has spent the majority of his career at the bottom end of L1 for good reason, and that whilst Woolfie has weaknesses in elements of his game the previous manager elected to cast him aside rather than focus on the guy with the significantly higher ceiling.
Woolf says on day 1 John McGreal took over put his arm round him and told him he should be playing in a higher league, let alone for us |
I’ve never denied that Woolfenden has the attributes for a higher ceiling. But let’s not pretend that he was as strong a defender as Nsiala at the time in the here and now of League One and as 1 of 2 CBs.
I’m sure this extended run of games and good performances will have done him the world of good if and when we return to a CB pair. So he’s certainly done enough to be alongside Edmundson and then we can see how far he’s come. | |
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| Managing players the right way and wrong way on 13:16 - Mar 29 with 1761 views | itfcjoe |
That's actually not correct Phil, he is on 99.
Randomly some places have him coming on as a sub away at Birmingham when we drew 2-2 under Hurst (29th September 2018)
But you and ITFC didn't at the time:
https://www.itfc.co.uk/matches/fixtures/first-team/2018192/september/birmingham-
 Birmingham City 2-2 Ipswich Town - Match Report 29th Sep 2018 17:22Town still wait for their first win of the season after two second-half Lukas Jutkiewicz goals denied them victory over Birmingham at St Andrew’s having been two goals in front via Jon Nolan and Matthew Pennington at half-time, the game ending 2-2. Nolan netted on 26 and Pennington - who was sent off for a second yellow card late on - doubled the lead in the 41st minute as the Blues looked set to claim three points under Paul Hurst for the first time but Jutkiewicz struck on 48 and 68 to dash their hopes.  101
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| Managing players the right way and wrong way on 13:26 - Mar 29 with 1673 views | PhilTWTD |
| Managing players the right way and wrong way on 13:16 - Mar 29 by itfcjoe |
That's actually not correct Phil, he is on 99.
Randomly some places have him coming on as a sub away at Birmingham when we drew 2-2 under Hurst (29th September 2018)
But you and ITFC didn't at the time:
https://www.itfc.co.uk/matches/fixtures/first-team/2018192/september/birmingham-
Birmingham City 2-2 Ipswich Town - Match Report 29th Sep 2018 17:22Town still wait for their first win of the season after two second-half Lukas Jutkiewicz goals denied them victory over Birmingham at St Andrew’s having been two goals in front via Jon Nolan and Matthew Pennington at half-time, the game ending 2-2. Nolan netted on 26 and Pennington - who was sent off for a second yellow card late on - doubled the lead in the 41st minute as the Blues looked set to claim three points under Paul Hurst for the first time but Jutkiewicz struck on 48 and 68 to dash their hopes. 101
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That's interesting. Assumed whoever was covering it for PA noted the change, hence it appears in plenty of places, but the BBC report from that day doesn't mention it and that's where their stats come from. | | | |
| Managing players the right way and wrong way on 13:29 - Mar 29 with 1656 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Managing players the right way and wrong way on 12:59 - Mar 29 by Darth_Koont |
I think you’re trying to fluff your way around the elephant in the room. Namely that it’s the change in system that has been the biggest bonus for Woolfenden and his attributes as a player.
And overall, I think it works better for our squad so no complaints there. A few exceptions like Edmundson who’s more of a classic, physically dominating CB less so. But he’s first on the team sheet if we go back to a CB pairing, I’m sure you agree.
Edit: the change in system is also the best response to our less than clinical and stuttering attack. Now we can win 1-0 or at least avoid defeat rather than try to out score the opposition which was Cook’s approach but just didn’t pay off nearly enough given our streaky performances in the attacking third. [Post edited 29 Mar 2022 13:03]
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It's not really 3 at the back we are playing a lot of the time though is it? There's no way Burns was playing as a RWB for a lot of the game on Saturday. His position seems to get higher up the pitch by the game. Donacien rolls across to RB and we look a more conventional 4 quite often.
Woolfenden is clearly a confidence player as well. Lambert seemed to suck the life out of everyone at the club and Cook had him in/out and then with the U23s. Some players need that arm around the shoulder and a bit of faith shown in them.
Nsiala was turd. I can't believe this is even debatable. | | | |
| Managing players the right way and wrong way on 13:31 - Mar 29 with 1638 views | itfcjoe |
| Managing players the right way and wrong way on 13:26 - Mar 29 by PhilTWTD |
That's interesting. Assumed whoever was covering it for PA noted the change, hence it appears in plenty of places, but the BBC report from that day doesn't mention it and that's where their stats come from. |
Even on Soccerbase there, and latterly on Pride of Anglia it has both Downes and Sears coming on in 81st minute but only Ward going off.
And it obviously was Sears from your report:
The Blues swapped Ward for Freddie Sears in the 81st minute, the former West Ham man taking up a role behind Jackson with Nolan switching to wide on the left.
Mahoney wasn’t too far from a winning goal in the 85th minute with a low shot from the right of the box which flew just past Gerken’s right post.
A minute later, skipper Luke Chambers nodded down a freekick from deep but Sears just couldn’t reach it.
Then on 87 the Blues had a golden chance to reclaim the lead. Jackson, who had enjoyed his best game since joining Town, escaped down the left and cut across to Sears, however, the ball flew just behind the striker and it was cleared from inside the six-yard box. | |
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