| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion 09:28 - Mar 30 with 3999 views | wkj |
Getting business done early and maximising the preseason for training and preparation. I am a firm believer of the stories that preseason games tell, and it was clear we were not going to be very comfortable last summer based on the quality on show at some of the friendlies (more so the later ones).
Let's hope that McKenna gets what he wants, as this team probably needs a proper preseason together, as they really didn't have one last year. |  |
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| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 13:10 - Mar 30 with 849 views | ReusersTown |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 12:29 - Mar 30 by hype313 |
I actually think Cook's outlook would have been vastly different had Evans not sold up, no way he would have ripped apart that squad without the knowledge that the club was going to be under new owners and increased finances.
Just looked like he threw the baby out with the bathwater knowing full well he could cast of and throw a load under the bus with new investment coming, therefore highlighting their deficiencies as opposed to his.
I do wonder where we would be with more of a transitional period in the first 9 games, rather than a bunch of strangers thrown together, those early games have essentially killed this season, bar a miracle.
I'm also still annoyed by the fact that there was a chance Downes might have stayed if Cook hadn't been such an arrogant prat. [Post edited 30 Mar 2022 12:30]
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Where are you getting that from, out of curiosity RE Downes? hadn't he repeatedly handed in transfer requests, even pre dating Cook? |  | | |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion (n/t) on 13:13 - Mar 30 with 848 views | ReusersTown |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 12:29 - Mar 30 by hype313 |
I actually think Cook's outlook would have been vastly different had Evans not sold up, no way he would have ripped apart that squad without the knowledge that the club was going to be under new owners and increased finances.
Just looked like he threw the baby out with the bathwater knowing full well he could cast of and throw a load under the bus with new investment coming, therefore highlighting their deficiencies as opposed to his.
I do wonder where we would be with more of a transitional period in the first 9 games, rather than a bunch of strangers thrown together, those early games have essentially killed this season, bar a miracle.
I'm also still annoyed by the fact that there was a chance Downes might have stayed if Cook hadn't been such an arrogant prat. [Post edited 30 Mar 2022 12:30]
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[Post edited 30 Mar 2022 13:20]
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| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 13:25 - Mar 30 with 820 views | itfcsuth |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 09:40 - Mar 30 by itfcjoe |
It is something every manager says, but for me last pre season was a disaster if we wanted to go up this year as we turned up on 1st day of pre season with 11 players in first team squad which included Ndaba, El Mizouni and Dobra who weren't really first teamers.
I wonder how Mark Ashton has sold this season to the American owners, because whilst he has got lots right - he oversaw the total destruction and rebuild which has undoubtedly held us back. |
That squad absolutely needed to be largely dismantled and rebuilt.
The increase in individual quality, paired with increase qaulity in management - we are operating at a different level from a performance perspective to what that group ever reached.
I mean no disrespect, but when the likes of Chambers, Skuse, Sears, Judge, Bishop, Dozzell have been replaced by Edmundson, Evans, Chaplin, Burns, Aluko, Celina, Morsy.
Your last paragraph is a very short term viewpoint, thankfully the American ownership have a more mid/long term perspective on the project. |  | | |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 13:28 - Mar 30 with 818 views | hype313 |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 13:10 - Mar 30 by ReusersTown |
Where are you getting that from, out of curiosity RE Downes? hadn't he repeatedly handed in transfer requests, even pre dating Cook? |
The Dyer interview |  |
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| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 13:58 - Mar 30 with 790 views | Churchman |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 09:40 - Mar 30 by itfcjoe |
It is something every manager says, but for me last pre season was a disaster if we wanted to go up this year as we turned up on 1st day of pre season with 11 players in first team squad which included Ndaba, El Mizouni and Dobra who weren't really first teamers.
I wonder how Mark Ashton has sold this season to the American owners, because whilst he has got lots right - he oversaw the total destruction and rebuild which has undoubtedly held us back. |
This is actually the question I’d have asked had I been there. The reality was that once Cook had been backed, he had to be supported in what he wanted to do. The Americans I suspect were on board with that, not least after watching the down tools performances at Northampton and Wimbledon.
The alternative was getting Cook out - which is precisely what they should have done at the end of last season, with the gift of hindsight. Difficult given the CEO didn’t start until 1 June.
Basically, in sacking Lambert and appointing Cook, Evans shafted us one last time. Not deliberately, but that is how it turned out. Even if he’d kicked out Lambert (fully deserved), he’d have left us in a far better place with a temporary manager as opposed to wheeling in a wrecking ball and laundry boy. |  | | |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 14:14 - Mar 30 with 775 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 13:58 - Mar 30 by Churchman |
This is actually the question I’d have asked had I been there. The reality was that once Cook had been backed, he had to be supported in what he wanted to do. The Americans I suspect were on board with that, not least after watching the down tools performances at Northampton and Wimbledon.
The alternative was getting Cook out - which is precisely what they should have done at the end of last season, with the gift of hindsight. Difficult given the CEO didn’t start until 1 June.
Basically, in sacking Lambert and appointing Cook, Evans shafted us one last time. Not deliberately, but that is how it turned out. Even if he’d kicked out Lambert (fully deserved), he’d have left us in a far better place with a temporary manager as opposed to wheeling in a wrecking ball and laundry boy. |
"getting Cook out - which is precisely what they should have done at the end of last season"
Wow. So you'd have given him no transfer windows whatsoever? Is that how impatient some have become; that they wouldn't even give a manager a chance to sign his own players before discarding him and rolling the dice again? |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 14:18 - Mar 30 with 763 views | wkj |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 14:14 - Mar 30 by The_Flashing_Smile |
"getting Cook out - which is precisely what they should have done at the end of last season"
Wow. So you'd have given him no transfer windows whatsoever? Is that how impatient some have become; that they wouldn't even give a manager a chance to sign his own players before discarding him and rolling the dice again? |
In hindsight, yes.
In all honesty, the club could have offloaded Cook at the end of the season with a limited amount of resistance if McKenna came in and hit the ground running over summer. Cook was supported for a long time by most town fans on the hope something better would come rather than anything he'd achieved with us.
On the other hand, Cook did have a degree of pulling power for some of the signings, so, it's hard to be definitive when weighing up what good things Cook had done here. | |
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| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 14:19 - Mar 30 with 763 views | BseaBlue |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 14:14 - Mar 30 by The_Flashing_Smile |
"getting Cook out - which is precisely what they should have done at the end of last season"
Wow. So you'd have given him no transfer windows whatsoever? Is that how impatient some have become; that they wouldn't even give a manager a chance to sign his own players before discarding him and rolling the dice again? |
I think the point being that perhaps Cook's vision didnt match that of the new owners in what they were expecting of the role.
Don't get me wrong, I agree with your point on patience but in this instance where it has been very clear of the structure that Gamechanger are operating, releasing Cook in the summer wouldn't have been that much of a shock. |  | | |
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| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 14:20 - Mar 30 with 756 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 10:45 - Mar 30 by itfcjoe |
There was enough in that squad to get us into the top 6 - McGuinness, Dozzell and Downes playing regularly in the Champ. Woolfie, Wilson, Parrott playing well in this league. Norwood, Jackson have goals and performances in them
In Cook's tenure all we had to do was beat the dross in the league which we had consistently done - 6 more points from the 6 games vs Rochdale, WImbledon (twice), MK, Charlton and Northampton where we didn't score a single goal and we'd have made it (before losing to any decent side we played in top 6)
Cook totally screwed up two seasons for us, and you don't get many opportunities to nab a promotion |
"There was enough in that squad to get us into the top 6"
Since relegation we've not been consistently in the top 6, or remotely looked like we should be, under either Lambert or Cook. It's well documented how we've struggled against top 6, or even top 8-10, sides for a long time. This idea that it was easy enough to do, with the players we had, doesn't stand up to scrutiny. It's used as a stick to beat Cook with, which we know you like to do, but there's very little evidence that we had a top 6 side in the waiting. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 14:28 - Mar 30 with 748 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 13:58 - Mar 30 by Churchman |
This is actually the question I’d have asked had I been there. The reality was that once Cook had been backed, he had to be supported in what he wanted to do. The Americans I suspect were on board with that, not least after watching the down tools performances at Northampton and Wimbledon.
The alternative was getting Cook out - which is precisely what they should have done at the end of last season, with the gift of hindsight. Difficult given the CEO didn’t start until 1 June.
Basically, in sacking Lambert and appointing Cook, Evans shafted us one last time. Not deliberately, but that is how it turned out. Even if he’d kicked out Lambert (fully deserved), he’d have left us in a far better place with a temporary manager as opposed to wheeling in a wrecking ball and laundry boy. |
It's all ifs, buts and maybes and generally not worth looking back at too much.
Everything happens for a reason and here we are - if Cook went in the summer we probably wouldn't have McKenna right now, who whether you thought Cook got enough time or not, is clearly an upgrade and a far better fit for the model we want to operate. Equally we wouldn't have players like Walton, Morsy, Chaplin and Evans on the books. | | | |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 14:33 - Mar 30 with 741 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 14:18 - Mar 30 by wkj |
In hindsight, yes.
In all honesty, the club could have offloaded Cook at the end of the season with a limited amount of resistance if McKenna came in and hit the ground running over summer. Cook was supported for a long time by most town fans on the hope something better would come rather than anything he'd achieved with us.
On the other hand, Cook did have a degree of pulling power for some of the signings, so, it's hard to be definitive when weighing up what good things Cook had done here. |
Well I mean, if you're evoking hindsight there'd be several managers you'd never even employ in the first place.
I personally felt it was wrong that Cook only had 1 window, but to advocate none at all?! That's bonkers IMO. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 14:36 - Mar 30 with 738 views | Churchman |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 14:14 - Mar 30 by The_Flashing_Smile |
"getting Cook out - which is precisely what they should have done at the end of last season"
Wow. So you'd have given him no transfer windows whatsoever? Is that how impatient some have become; that they wouldn't even give a manager a chance to sign his own players before discarding him and rolling the dice again? |
No. I was actually somebody that was supportive at the time, right to the point of wondering when he was fired whether or not he should have been given another transfer window. I was wrong on both counts.
What emerged was that Cook’s way of doing things was never going to match the direction the club was taking (Dir of Performance etc etc) and while he did his very best, the moment that became clear was the time for the parting of the ways. The appalling start, laughably crude bomb squad and odd way of dealing with the players and the media hardly helped.
Cook was brought in at the wrong time and possibly wasn’t acquainted with what was happening to the club. This wasn’t his fault. It’s just the way it turned out.
It’s not a question of lack of patience. It’s a question of getting the right people in the building and as they said last night, all pulling in the right direction. Cook was never going to buy into that. This is the wonderful gift of hindsight on my part and slightly hypocritical given I was supportive of Cook a lot longer than many. | | | |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 14:38 - Mar 30 with 732 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 14:19 - Mar 30 by BseaBlue |
I think the point being that perhaps Cook's vision didnt match that of the new owners in what they were expecting of the role.
Don't get me wrong, I agree with your point on patience but in this instance where it has been very clear of the structure that Gamechanger are operating, releasing Cook in the summer wouldn't have been that much of a shock. |
I guess it wouldn't have been a shock, new owners will often want their own man in. It still wouldn't be right IMO.
When a manager's sacked it's usually because the team is failing. So expecting someone else to come in and turn it around without recruiting a single player of his own is asking rather a lot.
Having said that, McKenna seems to be doing a decent job of it so far, so what do I know! | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 14:38 - Mar 30 with 736 views | itfcjoe |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 14:14 - Mar 30 by The_Flashing_Smile |
"getting Cook out - which is precisely what they should have done at the end of last season"
Wow. So you'd have given him no transfer windows whatsoever? Is that how impatient some have become; that they wouldn't even give a manager a chance to sign his own players before discarding him and rolling the dice again? |
Cook was never going to work in the structure we have in place, he's basically said as much since leaving as well.
They should have got their own man in straight away |  |
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| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 14:42 - Mar 30 with 719 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 14:36 - Mar 30 by Churchman |
No. I was actually somebody that was supportive at the time, right to the point of wondering when he was fired whether or not he should have been given another transfer window. I was wrong on both counts.
What emerged was that Cook’s way of doing things was never going to match the direction the club was taking (Dir of Performance etc etc) and while he did his very best, the moment that became clear was the time for the parting of the ways. The appalling start, laughably crude bomb squad and odd way of dealing with the players and the media hardly helped.
Cook was brought in at the wrong time and possibly wasn’t acquainted with what was happening to the club. This wasn’t his fault. It’s just the way it turned out.
It’s not a question of lack of patience. It’s a question of getting the right people in the building and as they said last night, all pulling in the right direction. Cook was never going to buy into that. This is the wonderful gift of hindsight on my part and slightly hypocritical given I was supportive of Cook a lot longer than many. |
Yeah, you've hit the nail on the head of your own argument at the end there - it's all hindsight. If we could simply evoke hindsight we'd be top of the Prem by now. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 14:45 - Mar 30 with 709 views | itfcjoe |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 14:20 - Mar 30 by The_Flashing_Smile |
"There was enough in that squad to get us into the top 6"
Since relegation we've not been consistently in the top 6, or remotely looked like we should be, under either Lambert or Cook. It's well documented how we've struggled against top 6, or even top 8-10, sides for a long time. This idea that it was easy enough to do, with the players we had, doesn't stand up to scrutiny. It's used as a stick to beat Cook with, which we know you like to do, but there's very little evidence that we had a top 6 side in the waiting. |
We were 1 point outside the play off zone and in the last 16 games our games were the following:
vs 1st to 6th - 1 game
vs 7th to 10th - 3 games
vs 13th to 17th - 4 games
vs 18th to 24th - 8 games
In those 16 games we picked up 19 points, hardly a massive leap to suggest we could easily have picked up another 6th as you even state that it was our record against top 6 teams that was the issue, not against the weaker sides who we had consistently beaten but then failed to do so | |
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| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 14:51 - Mar 30 with 673 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 14:45 - Mar 30 by itfcjoe |
We were 1 point outside the play off zone and in the last 16 games our games were the following:
vs 1st to 6th - 1 game
vs 7th to 10th - 3 games
vs 13th to 17th - 4 games
vs 18th to 24th - 8 games
In those 16 games we picked up 19 points, hardly a massive leap to suggest we could easily have picked up another 6th as you even state that it was our record against top 6 teams that was the issue, not against the weaker sides who we had consistently beaten but then failed to do so |
Were we 1 point out when Gill took over? I think those last few games, when Lambert wasn't really in charge and we had a slight upturn, skew things somewhat.
Regardless, if we were looking like getting into the play offs, why on earth did we sack Lambert?
Also, you agree we couldn't beat the top 6 sides (I think it was more like 8-10, although we might've beaten the odd one or two), then how can you assert we were a top 6 side? You can't call yourself a top 6 side if you can't beat any of the top 6!
No, I don't think we could've easily picked up another 6 points. Hence, we didn't. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 15:14 - Mar 30 with 635 views | itfcjoe |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 14:51 - Mar 30 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Were we 1 point out when Gill took over? I think those last few games, when Lambert wasn't really in charge and we had a slight upturn, skew things somewhat.
Regardless, if we were looking like getting into the play offs, why on earth did we sack Lambert?
Also, you agree we couldn't beat the top 6 sides (I think it was more like 8-10, although we might've beaten the odd one or two), then how can you assert we were a top 6 side? You can't call yourself a top 6 side if you can't beat any of the top 6!
No, I don't think we could've easily picked up another 6 points. Hence, we didn't. |
Well we were 7th and barely had to play any of the top 10 in the final weeks of the season.
Beating other teams in the top 6 is not necessary to be a top 6 side, it would have been necessary in the play offs (and we had just beaten Hull who won the league away from home) | |
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| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 15:23 - Mar 30 with 609 views | Mach_foreignBlue |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 12:29 - Mar 30 by hype313 |
I actually think Cook's outlook would have been vastly different had Evans not sold up, no way he would have ripped apart that squad without the knowledge that the club was going to be under new owners and increased finances.
Just looked like he threw the baby out with the bathwater knowing full well he could cast of and throw a load under the bus with new investment coming, therefore highlighting their deficiencies as opposed to his.
I do wonder where we would be with more of a transitional period in the first 9 games, rather than a bunch of strangers thrown together, those early games have essentially killed this season, bar a miracle.
I'm also still annoyed by the fact that there was a chance Downes might have stayed if Cook hadn't been such an arrogant prat. [Post edited 30 Mar 2022 12:30]
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Yes some of the players that had been kicked out of the club would have stayed on if Evans did remain in charge. Quite possibly the Colchester brigade. We would have been well and truly at the relegation battle right now.
The demolition job is the best thing Cook did for us as the players had been conducting an easy life for years.
And Downes wanted to leave the club well before Cooks arrival. [Post edited 30 Mar 2022 15:27]
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| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 15:39 - Mar 30 with 578 views | BigCommon |
He strikes me as being very efficient in the way he works.. As good as he is in interviews and any public speaking. I don't think it means a great deal to him. (In the nicest possible way).. I've always got the impression that he's "an actions/results speak louder than words" kind of bloke... The PR is great for us fans to feel connected... But he does all his real talking, on the training ground and on the pitch...imo.... |  | | |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 15:44 - Mar 30 with 562 views | Tractor_Buck |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 14:18 - Mar 30 by wkj |
In hindsight, yes.
In all honesty, the club could have offloaded Cook at the end of the season with a limited amount of resistance if McKenna came in and hit the ground running over summer. Cook was supported for a long time by most town fans on the hope something better would come rather than anything he'd achieved with us.
On the other hand, Cook did have a degree of pulling power for some of the signings, so, it's hard to be definitive when weighing up what good things Cook had done here. |
All good, apart from McKenna probably not being available at that point - he only came available when Ole's House of Cards collapsed at Man U - so we probably would have ended up doing the same mid-season emergency surgery anyway. |  | | |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 16:46 - Mar 30 with 520 views | franz_tyson |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 15:44 - Mar 30 by Tractor_Buck |
All good, apart from McKenna probably not being available at that point - he only came available when Ole's House of Cards collapsed at Man U - so we probably would have ended up doing the same mid-season emergency surgery anyway. |
Exactly. Lots of sliding doors moment's and some re-writing history based on Cook being totally crap and McK being a genius so that they can squeeze old favourites into our current squad. Do we actually know how good McK is at assembling a new squad? I'd say Cook is likely to be better at that even if McK is better at getting the best out of the squad. Not too unhappy. I really like this group of players compared to last seasons squad. Could have gone wrong if McK was here at the start of the season whereby he couldn't get much out of old favourites and fans are on his back asking why chambo or bish aren't in the team. Not the end of the world if we move on ageing players or some who need to move on because we get offers from above or some just aren't good enough. | | | |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 17:58 - Mar 30 with 471 views | jeera |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 16:46 - Mar 30 by franz_tyson |
Exactly. Lots of sliding doors moment's and some re-writing history based on Cook being totally crap and McK being a genius so that they can squeeze old favourites into our current squad. Do we actually know how good McK is at assembling a new squad? I'd say Cook is likely to be better at that even if McK is better at getting the best out of the squad. Not too unhappy. I really like this group of players compared to last seasons squad. Could have gone wrong if McK was here at the start of the season whereby he couldn't get much out of old favourites and fans are on his back asking why chambo or bish aren't in the team. Not the end of the world if we move on ageing players or some who need to move on because we get offers from above or some just aren't good enough. |
Why would 'old favourites' still be here if another manager had come in instead of Cook?
It's like those would be the two alternatives: Cook without those players or another man with those players. Hardly a masterstroke realising the team needed a refresh.
And even more so had the team actually managed to climb into the Championship that previous season under some better leadership. They'd be no way in hell all those same players would be involved following a step up. |  |
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| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 18:59 - Mar 30 with 438 views | franz_tyson |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 17:58 - Mar 30 by jeera |
Why would 'old favourites' still be here if another manager had come in instead of Cook?
It's like those would be the two alternatives: Cook without those players or another man with those players. Hardly a masterstroke realising the team needed a refresh.
And even more so had the team actually managed to climb into the Championship that previous season under some better leadership. They'd be no way in hell all those same players would be involved following a step up. |
Well ask the ones who say someone like Chambers would have helped us get over the transition? Or the ones who keep on going on about Bishop or Lankester kicking on under the coaching of McKenna. Just responding to the regrets and what ifs about former players. Cook's real error was how he went about the demolition man job, not why. But his DM job IMO has helped the club and he's taken it all on his shoulders.... and ultimately paid the price.....and probably taken Ashton out of the firing line.
There's so many things we don't know about. Could Cook have persuaded Downes to stay? Some have already made up their minds who was at fault about their conversation which no-one knows about. If Downes had stayed, would we have gone in for Morsy? Or could we afford him if Downes wasn't sold.? A lot seem to think we could have had both Morsy and Downes lining up together. Not sure that's realistic and I'd rather have Morsy because I've never seen Downes control games like he has. | | | |
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