| Local elections? 09:56 - May 4 with 6585 views | Darth_Koont |
What a strange country we are that the local elections are becoming Partygate vs. Beergate and anything else that makes up the Westminster political/media bubble.
Local government on its own terms should be the focus. The only connection made to Westminster should be how local resources and services have been starved of funds over decades.
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| Local elections? on 13:43 - May 5 with 833 views | giant_stow |
| Local elections? on 13:10 - May 5 by footers |
Not silencing the left of the party maybe?
Why should I vote for a party that doesn't represent my interests and has no intention of doing so?
At this point in time people will only vote Labour because they're not the Tories. That's what Koonters has been getting pelters for pointing out.
Where are the progressive policies that the demands of this generation demands?
Sure, anything but the Tories is great. But we need more. Much more. And shutting out actual leftists from the conversation opens them up to the accusation of not being that far removed from the Tories. |
"At this point in time people will only vote Labour because they're not the Tories. That's what Koonters has been getting pelters for pointing out."
This is precisely where we at - we must get the tories out as the most basic of starting points. Its an emergency now as they evermore confirm their shambolic, corrupt, anti-democratic and anti-poor selves. Everything else should come second to that. Darth is getting pelters for trying to argue with that. In fairness, he argues valiantly, but he is wrong to confuse the issue, which is really very simple. |  |
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| Local elections? on 13:52 - May 5 with 800 views | Darth_Koont |
| Local elections? on 13:43 - May 5 by giant_stow |
"At this point in time people will only vote Labour because they're not the Tories. That's what Koonters has been getting pelters for pointing out."
This is precisely where we at - we must get the tories out as the most basic of starting points. Its an emergency now as they evermore confirm their shambolic, corrupt, anti-democratic and anti-poor selves. Everything else should come second to that. Darth is getting pelters for trying to argue with that. In fairness, he argues valiantly, but he is wrong to confuse the issue, which is really very simple. |
If the Tories are so bad, why is Starmer’s Labour not offering anything different in any real sense?
Where’s this big shift going to come from with a Labour leadership that’s lacking in ideas, authoritarian, undemocratic, unaccountable and dishonest within its own party?
In a default two-party system both are unfit for purpose. Probably because they only have to be a bit better or a bit more popular than the other. Rather than stand up for actual representative democracy and public service. | |
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| Local elections? on 14:01 - May 5 with 790 views | giant_stow |
| Local elections? on 13:52 - May 5 by Darth_Koont |
If the Tories are so bad, why is Starmer’s Labour not offering anything different in any real sense?
Where’s this big shift going to come from with a Labour leadership that’s lacking in ideas, authoritarian, undemocratic, unaccountable and dishonest within its own party?
In a default two-party system both are unfit for purpose. Probably because they only have to be a bit better or a bit more popular than the other. Rather than stand up for actual representative democracy and public service. |
Labour aren't sticking their necks out because they want to convince sometimes Tory voters that they can be trusted. And I'm fine with that, because getting the Tories out is the most important thing - everything else follows.
Agree about the voting system, but that's not going to change before the next election so here we are. | |
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| Local elections? on 14:10 - May 5 with 774 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Local elections? on 13:52 - May 5 by Darth_Koont |
If the Tories are so bad, why is Starmer’s Labour not offering anything different in any real sense?
Where’s this big shift going to come from with a Labour leadership that’s lacking in ideas, authoritarian, undemocratic, unaccountable and dishonest within its own party?
In a default two-party system both are unfit for purpose. Probably because they only have to be a bit better or a bit more popular than the other. Rather than stand up for actual representative democracy and public service. |
This is a bit Monty Pythonish. Labour are offering nothing different to the Tories, except for improvements on the environment, stronger economy, better security, improved justice system, public services, international relations, citizen's rights, etc... |  |
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| Local elections? on 14:19 - May 5 with 756 views | Darth_Koont |
| Local elections? on 14:10 - May 5 by Swansea_Blue |
This is a bit Monty Pythonish. Labour are offering nothing different to the Tories, except for improvements on the environment, stronger economy, better security, improved justice system, public services, international relations, citizen's rights, etc... |
How? And we’ve already seen the disconnect between Starmer’s ”promises” and his actions.
I don’t believe he’ll deliver anything more than cosmetic tweaks. Just like Boris’s “levelling up”. | |
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| Local elections? on 14:28 - May 5 with 742 views | PassionNotAnger |
| Local elections? on 14:19 - May 5 by Darth_Koont |
How? And we’ve already seen the disconnect between Starmer’s ”promises” and his actions.
I don’t believe he’ll deliver anything more than cosmetic tweaks. Just like Boris’s “levelling up”. |
Basic logic
Boris has proven himself to be a liar, incompetent and bad for our country as leader of this government - IF you agree with that you'll also agree that the longer he stays in power the more pain we all suffer.
You fear there is a risk that Starmer won't deliver his promises (and those promises you generally feel would be better or "less worse" than Tories actual policies) so won't advocate voting for him.
You are therefore accepting the certainty of continued pain because you fear full/partial failure of better policies because Starmer isn't Corbyn.
ABC - Anything by conservative - can't see how an alternative could possibly be any worse than it is now for the average household (as things are only going to get worse under the Tory's) |  | | |
| Local elections? on 14:36 - May 5 with 739 views | pointofblue |
| Local elections? on 13:10 - May 5 by footers |
Not silencing the left of the party maybe?
Why should I vote for a party that doesn't represent my interests and has no intention of doing so?
At this point in time people will only vote Labour because they're not the Tories. That's what Koonters has been getting pelters for pointing out.
Where are the progressive policies that the demands of this generation demands?
Sure, anything but the Tories is great. But we need more. Much more. And shutting out actual leftists from the conversation opens them up to the accusation of not being that far removed from the Tories. |
But how do you get there? Not silencing the left, a manifesto of progressive policies, claiming more… what are the steps to get to that point from where we are now? | |
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| Local elections? on 15:11 - May 5 with 720 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Local elections? on 13:39 - May 5 by GeoffSentence |
You'd be hard pushed to find any major political party that doesn't have some cranks and racists, probably true with minor ones too. |
Indeed. But Starmer has been very busy getting rid of them whereas he predecessor looked the other way because it was politically convenient.
The Tories under Johnson practically encourage and embolden them.
It’s an easy choice today. |  |
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| Local elections? on 15:16 - May 5 with 705 views | Darth_Koont |
| Local elections? on 15:11 - May 5 by GlasgowBlue |
Indeed. But Starmer has been very busy getting rid of them whereas he predecessor looked the other way because it was politically convenient.
The Tories under Johnson practically encourage and embolden them.
It’s an easy choice today. |
Haha! You disingenuous clown. | |
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| Local elections? on 15:29 - May 5 with 691 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Local elections? on 14:19 - May 5 by Darth_Koont |
How? And we’ve already seen the disconnect between Starmer’s ”promises” and his actions.
I don’t believe he’ll deliver anything more than cosmetic tweaks. Just like Boris’s “levelling up”. |
What can you do though - he hasn't been given the opportunity to see if he can deliver for the country. I'm not going to hang him out to dry because of a bunch of internal wranglings over how different to JC he is. Give them chance and then see if they can deliver. If not, then they can be justifiably criticised. The last time we had a Labour government was a vast improvement on most things that impact people's lives, even if they had some policy stances that were close to the Tories (on macro economics and financing especially). | |
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| Local elections? on 15:55 - May 5 with 667 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Local elections? on 14:19 - May 5 by Darth_Koont |
How? And we’ve already seen the disconnect between Starmer’s ”promises” and his actions.
I don’t believe he’ll deliver anything more than cosmetic tweaks. Just like Boris’s “levelling up”. |
Corbyn was too thick and incompetent to ever effectively enact any of his manifesto anyway. Whatever you thought of his policies, the guy just isn’t/wasn’t very bright or capable. | | | |
| Local elections? on 15:55 - May 5 with 667 views | Darth_Koont |
| Local elections? on 15:29 - May 5 by Swansea_Blue |
What can you do though - he hasn't been given the opportunity to see if he can deliver for the country. I'm not going to hang him out to dry because of a bunch of internal wranglings over how different to JC he is. Give them chance and then see if they can deliver. If not, then they can be justifiably criticised. The last time we had a Labour government was a vast improvement on most things that impact people's lives, even if they had some policy stances that were close to the Tories (on macro economics and financing especially). |
There’s a lot more to it than “internal wranglings”, Swanners.
Based on the leadership campaign, handling of the Brexit issue and handling of the party and its members after becoming leader, Starmer is certainly no-one to talk about a return to honesty and integrity. As far as I’m concerned, the guy’s an opportunist liar with a weird authoritarian and establishment-loving streak.
There’s no “step in the right direction” with him and his crowd. It’s still a step in the wrong direction.
Most importantly he’s occupying the space where a real opposition to decades of Tory and Tory-lite politics and misrule should be. People seem to be blithely unaware of the actual challenges facing the UK, not least that the UK is well into the process of breaking up. | |
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| Local elections? on 15:57 - May 5 with 663 views | blueasfook |
| Local elections? on 10:25 - May 5 by Darth_Koont |
Labour now being viable to voters like you is a symptom of the UK’s incessant slide right and slide into irrelevance.
I’ll never vote for opportunistic, unprincipled and policy-less liars like Boris AND Starmer plus their associated cronies. Not least because they’re failing the country while helping themselves. |
Voted Labour all my life actually. Except during the Corbyn era.
I think you'll find a lot felt the same. Hence, worst election result for Labour since 1935.
I am sure Starmer would have fared much better than JC. I guess that's what hurts for you? |  |
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| Local elections? on 15:57 - May 5 with 662 views | Darth_Koont |
| Local elections? on 15:55 - May 5 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Corbyn was too thick and incompetent to ever effectively enact any of his manifesto anyway. Whatever you thought of his policies, the guy just isn’t/wasn’t very bright or capable. |
Smarter than a centrist though. He actually saw the problems and offered real solutions. | |
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| Local elections? on 15:59 - May 5 with 657 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Local elections? on 15:57 - May 5 by Darth_Koont |
Smarter than a centrist though. He actually saw the problems and offered real solutions. |
…way to miss the point. | | | |
| Local elections? on 15:59 - May 5 with 658 views | pointofblue |
| Local elections? on 15:57 - May 5 by blueasfook |
Voted Labour all my life actually. Except during the Corbyn era.
I think you'll find a lot felt the same. Hence, worst election result for Labour since 1935.
I am sure Starmer would have fared much better than JC. I guess that's what hurts for you? |
In fairness, didn’t Corbyn also pull in the biggest vote share for Labour since the 1970s, except for maybe the 1997 landslide? | |
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| Local elections? on 16:02 - May 5 with 656 views | Darth_Koont |
| Local elections? on 15:57 - May 5 by blueasfook |
Voted Labour all my life actually. Except during the Corbyn era.
I think you'll find a lot felt the same. Hence, worst election result for Labour since 1935.
I am sure Starmer would have fared much better than JC. I guess that's what hurts for you? |
So what happened in 2017 to bring millions of voters back to the party?
2019 was mostly about Brexit and smears (right-wingers inside and outside the Labour Party) because of the relative success in 2017 that turned around a two-decade slide.
You strike me as one of the least progressive people on here. If your political home has been Labour then I can understand why that party needs to crash and burn. | |
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| Local elections? on 16:02 - May 5 with 653 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Local elections? on 15:59 - May 5 by pointofblue |
In fairness, didn’t Corbyn also pull in the biggest vote share for Labour since the 1970s, except for maybe the 1997 landslide? |
Or the worst result since 1935 depending on which way you look at it…
2017 was closer…if only he wasn’t up against someone so charismatic and popular as Teresa May. | | | |
| Local elections? on 16:06 - May 5 with 647 views | Darth_Koont |
Should be Starmer’s next slogan when he re-launches for the umpteenth time. 
NEW NEW LABOUR
Way to miss the point. | |
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| Local elections? on 16:29 - May 5 with 617 views | pointofblue |
| Local elections? on 16:02 - May 5 by Darth_Koont |
So what happened in 2017 to bring millions of voters back to the party?
2019 was mostly about Brexit and smears (right-wingers inside and outside the Labour Party) because of the relative success in 2017 that turned around a two-decade slide.
You strike me as one of the least progressive people on here. If your political home has been Labour then I can understand why that party needs to crash and burn. |
As I said before, I doubt many disagree with what you’re saying and your outlook. Progressive politics is needed but the question is how to get there. Saying Labour needs to listen to the left of the party is fine, but what’s the route to get the leadership to do so? How can this vision then be sold to centrists - Corbyn pulled in an excellent result in 2017 but was still beaten by May.
And in the meantime choosing between two poor options may seem painful but is one going to do better for the country than the other? With Johnson being one of the options you would hope so. | |
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| Local elections? on 16:29 - May 5 with 615 views | blueasfook |
| Local elections? on 16:02 - May 5 by Darth_Koont |
So what happened in 2017 to bring millions of voters back to the party?
2019 was mostly about Brexit and smears (right-wingers inside and outside the Labour Party) because of the relative success in 2017 that turned around a two-decade slide.
You strike me as one of the least progressive people on here. If your political home has been Labour then I can understand why that party needs to crash and burn. |
Labour is the home of the working man - not progressives. It doesn't need to crash and burn, it needs to rid itself of the cancerous far left. Which, under Kier Starmer, it is taking huge strides towards. | |
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| Local elections? on 16:55 - May 5 with 593 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Local elections? on 15:16 - May 5 by Darth_Koont |
Haha! You disingenuous clown. |
You always revert to abuse when you lose the argument. | |
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| Local elections? on 16:58 - May 5 with 588 views | pointofblue |
| Local elections? on 16:29 - May 5 by blueasfook |
Labour is the home of the working man - not progressives. It doesn't need to crash and burn, it needs to rid itself of the cancerous far left. Which, under Kier Starmer, it is taking huge strides towards. |
Though isn’t the intention of progressive policies to help workers? | |
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| Local elections? on 17:40 - May 5 with 561 views | Darth_Koont |
| Local elections? on 16:55 - May 5 by GlasgowBlue |
You always revert to abuse when you lose the argument. |
No, that’s not abuse. It’s just describing you.
You’re an awfully disingenuous person. Certainly where politics are concerned. | |
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| Local elections? on 18:57 - May 5 with 511 views | blueasfook |
| Local elections? on 08:21 - May 5 by blueasfook |
I'll be voting Labour in the local election.
And probably Labour at the next GE. Now that they're a viable party again |
Well, when I got to the polling station, I had a last minute change of mind and voted Green Party.
Felt the right thing to do. | |
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