| What is the point in VAR if it doesn’t pick things like this up? 07:02 - May 20 with 4459 views | Ely_Blue |
If it was a penalty taken a yard from the spot or a goal kick taken from outside of the 6 yard box the officials wouldn’t allow it. |  |
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| What is the point in VAR if it doesn’t pick things like this up? on 12:05 - May 20 with 1393 views | FifeITFC |
| What is the point in VAR if it doesn’t pick things like this up? on 11:49 - May 20 by Ely_Blue |
Ah you mean like the offsides? Yeah VAR checks those in real time doesn’t it. Also the countless was it/wasn’t it handball decisions that get looked at from 10 angles in slo mo for 5 minutes!
If the player gained a clear advantage as he would have done in this case by being able to take the throw in from inside the playing area the yes it does have a direct impact. Not withstanding that effectively it’s a handball offence if we’re going to ignore the fact that his foot is a yard over the line. Let’s allow the same for corners, goal kicks and penalties shall we too? |
Those decisions aren't within VAR's remit.
Taken from the Premier League website:
All 380 Premier League fixtures in a season will have a VAR, who is constantly monitoring the match but will be used only for "clear and obvious errors" or "serious missed incidents" in four match-changing situations:
Goals
Penalty decisions
Direct red card incidents
Mistaken identity
The final decision will always be taken by the on-field referee.
https://www.premierleague.com/VAR |  |
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| What is the point in VAR if it doesn’t pick things like this up? on 12:13 - May 20 with 1370 views | jayessess |
| What is the point in VAR if it doesn’t pick things like this up? on 11:49 - May 20 by Ely_Blue |
Ah you mean like the offsides? Yeah VAR checks those in real time doesn’t it. Also the countless was it/wasn’t it handball decisions that get looked at from 10 angles in slo mo for 5 minutes!
If the player gained a clear advantage as he would have done in this case by being able to take the throw in from inside the playing area the yes it does have a direct impact. Not withstanding that effectively it’s a handball offence if we’re going to ignore the fact that his foot is a yard over the line. Let’s allow the same for corners, goal kicks and penalties shall we too? |
Here's the official protocol for VAR:
https://www.theifab.com/laws/latest/video-assistant-referee-var-protocol/#practi
VAR officials are not there to re-referee every decision that is made, they only "check" things if there's a goal, penalty decision, straight red, mistaken identity for a card. They only "review" things if the referee tells them to.
To catch this they'd have needed to notice it in the full-speed footage, probably first viewing, then recommended to the referee that they review it. Otherwise of course it's getting missed, they aren't going to habitually examine every throw for "clear and obvious errors". |  |
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| What is the point in VAR if it doesn’t pick things like this up? on 12:18 - May 20 with 1351 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| What is the point in VAR if it doesn’t pick things like this up? on 11:11 - May 20 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
No, money is why we have VAR in the first place |
Ah yes, I've heard this, but not yet heard any cogent explanations for money being the main driver for VAR... |  |
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| What is the point in VAR if it doesn’t pick things like this up? on 12:25 - May 20 with 1325 views | Ely_Blue |
| What is the point in VAR if it doesn’t pick things like this up? on 12:05 - May 20 by FifeITFC |
Those decisions aren't within VAR's remit.
Taken from the Premier League website:
All 380 Premier League fixtures in a season will have a VAR, who is constantly monitoring the match but will be used only for "clear and obvious errors" or "serious missed incidents" in four match-changing situations:
Goals
Penalty decisions
Direct red card incidents
Mistaken identity
The final decision will always be taken by the on-field referee.
https://www.premierleague.com/VAR |
Ah so where do you count fouls in a build up to a goal?
Surely a foul throw in the build up to a goal is “foul play” | |
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| What is the point in VAR if it doesn’t pick things like this up? on 12:43 - May 20 with 1317 views | pointofblue |
| What is the point in VAR if it doesn’t pick things like this up? on 12:25 - May 20 by Ely_Blue |
Ah so where do you count fouls in a build up to a goal?
Surely a foul throw in the build up to a goal is “foul play” |
That’s a mysterious question when you consider Jota was fouled in the lead up to Southampton’s goal on Tuesday yet nothing was given. |  |
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| What is the point in VAR if it doesn’t pick things like this up? on 12:45 - May 20 with 1314 views | Ely_Blue |
| What is the point in VAR if it doesn’t pick things like this up? on 12:43 - May 20 by pointofblue |
That’s a mysterious question when you consider Jota was fouled in the lead up to Southampton’s goal on Tuesday yet nothing was given. |
Yet on other occasions they go back a minute | |
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| What is the point in VAR if it doesn’t pick things like this up? on 12:47 - May 20 with 1309 views | SouperJim |
| What is the point in VAR if it doesn’t pick things like this up? on 10:30 - May 20 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
No, I’d be questioning why we allowed the ball to be lifted into the box so easily and a player drift in unmarked from 30 yards out to easily volley in, rather than whining about a throw in which happened so far before it isn’t even included on the clip in the highlights |
Ok I'll admit I haven't even seen what happened, was just looking at the picture. I wasn't advocating VAR being used regardless, just think it's pretty poor for a foul throw by that margin to not be spotted and stand by the comparison that if it happened to us a Portman Road in the build up to a goal (so the foul throw started the passage of play where we ultimately conceeded) I'd be right pissed off at the officials. As others have said, the laws of the game are there for a reason. It's not a contentious offside by a toenail, he's more on the pitch than off it. |  |
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| What is the point in VAR if it doesn’t pick things like this up? on 13:28 - May 20 with 1288 views | N2_Blue |
| What is the point in VAR if it doesn’t pick things like this up? on 09:18 - May 20 by SouperJim |
I'd politely suggest if we were on the wrong end of a goal following a throw that blatantly illegal, you might feel different. |
I really wouldn't.
It's a feckin throw in for god sake, not really comparable to taking a penalty a foot from the spot. Majority of free kicks aren't taken exactly where the foul was and no one really says anything.
This is just sour grapes. |  |
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| What is the point in VAR if it doesn’t pick things like this up? on 13:48 - May 20 with 1274 views | Ely_Blue |
| What is the point in VAR if it doesn’t pick things like this up? on 13:28 - May 20 by N2_Blue |
I really wouldn't.
It's a feckin throw in for god sake, not really comparable to taking a penalty a foot from the spot. Majority of free kicks aren't taken exactly where the foul was and no one really says anything.
This is just sour grapes. |
Unless it’s a quickly taken free kick from the wrong place, as this throw is | |
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| What is the point in VAR if it doesn’t pick things like this up? on 14:00 - May 20 with 1262 views | jayessess |
| What is the point in VAR if it doesn’t pick things like this up? on 10:31 - May 20 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
VAR giving offsides by a millimetre is also ridiculous
Have you even seen the goal in question? Absolutely laughable that anyone would think it should have been chalked off because of that |
I hate VAR but in fairness it actually has the opposite effect on marginal offside calls.
There's various studies demonstrating that human assistant referees flag erroneously far more often than not-flagging erroneously. This study has 87% of offside mistakes benefiting the defending side: https://www-tandfonline-com.libproxy.ucl.ac.uk/doi/full/10.1080/0264041050029806
It's counter-intuitive because we see all these marginal VAR offsides, but strikers should be pro-VAR. [Post edited 20 May 2022 14:01]
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| What is the point in VAR if it doesn’t pick things like this up? on 14:11 - May 20 with 1253 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| What is the point in VAR if it doesn’t pick things like this up? on 14:00 - May 20 by jayessess |
I hate VAR but in fairness it actually has the opposite effect on marginal offside calls.
There's various studies demonstrating that human assistant referees flag erroneously far more often than not-flagging erroneously. This study has 87% of offside mistakes benefiting the defending side: https://www-tandfonline-com.libproxy.ucl.ac.uk/doi/full/10.1080/0264041050029806
It's counter-intuitive because we see all these marginal VAR offsides, but strikers should be pro-VAR. [Post edited 20 May 2022 14:01]
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That doesn’t work though because even with VAR if the flag goes up play is stopped and offside given. VAR doesn’t then get reviewed and the attacker put back to running through on goal |  |
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| What is the point in VAR if it doesn’t pick things like this up? on 14:14 - May 20 with 1248 views | SouperJim |
| What is the point in VAR if it doesn’t pick things like this up? on 13:28 - May 20 by N2_Blue |
I really wouldn't.
It's a feckin throw in for god sake, not really comparable to taking a penalty a foot from the spot. Majority of free kicks aren't taken exactly where the foul was and no one really says anything.
This is just sour grapes. |
How can it be sour grapes? I couldn't give a flying one about Villa or Burnley!
I didn't compare it to a penalty or a free kick, but here's a comparison I will make - when the opposition get a free kick which is blatantly a dive. Then following that free kick they score (not directly, just the free kick restarts the game and from that passage of play they then score). This is on the same level as that for me in terms of injustice. It's not a deadball being taken from the wrong blade of grass, it's a throw being allowed to stand when the player threw from the wrong side of the line! | |
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| What is the point in VAR if it doesn’t pick things like this up? on 14:17 - May 20 with 1237 views | fabian_illness |
That's a good 5 minutes of life I will never get back. |  | | |
| What is the point in VAR if it doesn’t pick things like this up? on 14:23 - May 20 with 1233 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| What is the point in VAR if it doesn’t pick things like this up? on 12:18 - May 20 by Ewan_Oozami |
Ah yes, I've heard this, but not yet heard any cogent explanations for money being the main driver for VAR... |
Is that a serious question? Football managed to exist for 100+ years without it. Yes there were refereeing mistakes and people were angered by them but they got over it because it didn’t really matter
It’s only now football is a multi-billion pound business that a refereeing mistake costing a team becomes such an issue, and thus the push for and ultimate implementation of it. Funny that the lower divisions seem to do just fine without it, even if the referees are sh1t!! | |
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| What is the point in VAR if it doesn’t pick things like this up? on 14:25 - May 20 with 1230 views | jayessess |
| What is the point in VAR if it doesn’t pick things like this up? on 14:11 - May 20 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
That doesn’t work though because even with VAR if the flag goes up play is stopped and offside given. VAR doesn’t then get reviewed and the attacker put back to running through on goal |
Under the current rules the flag only goes up when the attacking move is concluded anyway.
What I'm saying here is that with a normal ref assistant, most of the marginal VAR offside calls people complain about ("he's off by a toe" etc.) are flagged offside. For every 1 that isn't, you get 7 bad offside calls the other way, where a marginally onside attacker gets flagged.
The net result of VAR is fewer offsides and more attacking opportunities. [Post edited 20 May 2022 14:26]
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| What is the point in VAR if it doesn’t pick things like this up? on 14:46 - May 20 with 1206 views | RonFearonsHair |
Not sure what that still image is supposed to prove on its own.
It’s quite common for players to start taking a throw with one foot on the pitch and slide it back to the line in time for when they release the ball. |  | | |
| What is the point in VAR if it doesn’t pick things like this up? on 14:51 - May 20 with 1200 views | LankHenners |
| What is the point in VAR if it doesn’t pick things like this up? on 14:14 - May 20 by SouperJim |
How can it be sour grapes? I couldn't give a flying one about Villa or Burnley!
I didn't compare it to a penalty or a free kick, but here's a comparison I will make - when the opposition get a free kick which is blatantly a dive. Then following that free kick they score (not directly, just the free kick restarts the game and from that passage of play they then score). This is on the same level as that for me in terms of injustice. It's not a deadball being taken from the wrong blade of grass, it's a throw being allowed to stand when the player threw from the wrong side of the line! |
In all honesty - so? Mistakes and poor decisions are always going to happen, from officials and players, sometimes your team will be benefit from them, sometimes not.
The standard of officiating, especially at this level, is poor, but a large part of the football experience is getting wound up by decisions, cheering heartily when you get given a penalty because of one etc. If you follow the ‘well technically there was a breach of the laws in the build up ‘to its logical end, you end up with a game where every goal or even any decision that impacts the match being thoroughly checked to see if it’s ‘correct’ at the total disruption to the flow of the game and any atmosphere in the ground. It would be a sterile nightmare.
The bottom line is football is about goals, and it’s mad to back a view that would result in fewer of them. |  |
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| What is the point in VAR if it doesn’t pick things like this up? on 15:00 - May 20 with 1189 views | jayessess |
| What is the point in VAR if it doesn’t pick things like this up? on 14:51 - May 20 by LankHenners |
In all honesty - so? Mistakes and poor decisions are always going to happen, from officials and players, sometimes your team will be benefit from them, sometimes not.
The standard of officiating, especially at this level, is poor, but a large part of the football experience is getting wound up by decisions, cheering heartily when you get given a penalty because of one etc. If you follow the ‘well technically there was a breach of the laws in the build up ‘to its logical end, you end up with a game where every goal or even any decision that impacts the match being thoroughly checked to see if it’s ‘correct’ at the total disruption to the flow of the game and any atmosphere in the ground. It would be a sterile nightmare.
The bottom line is football is about goals, and it’s mad to back a view that would result in fewer of them. |
I'm always intrigued by this line "the standard of officiating is poor". It's a fairly consistent thing I hear about football at all levels, so I end up wondering - what is it poor in relation to?
Is the idea that some leagues have a gold standard of refereeing? Or are we comparing to a hypothetical flawless referee?
I sometimes wonder if sometimes our complaints about referees imagine a standard of refereeing that just isn't consistently possible for fallible human beings. [Post edited 21 May 2022 14:00]
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| What is the point in VAR if it doesn’t pick things like this up? on 18:31 - May 20 with 1134 views | LankHenners |
| What is the point in VAR if it doesn’t pick things like this up? on 15:00 - May 20 by jayessess |
I'm always intrigued by this line "the standard of officiating is poor". It's a fairly consistent thing I hear about football at all levels, so I end up wondering - what is it poor in relation to?
Is the idea that some leagues have a gold standard of refereeing? Or are we comparing to a hypothetical flawless referee?
I sometimes wonder if sometimes our complaints about referees imagine a standard of refereeing that just isn't consistently possible for fallible human beings. [Post edited 21 May 2022 14:00]
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I typed that up quickly and messed up my sentence there - I meant to say it’s poor at this level in particular with relation to the general accepted wisdom that referees are bad which is why, some say, we need VAR. My point really was that fans thinking refs are bad and blaming them for everything is part of the game and one that should be accepted rather than try to create some perfect world where every decision is made ‘correctly’. | |
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| What is the point in VAR if it doesn’t pick things like this up? on 19:36 - May 20 with 1121 views | Trequartista |
You've spotted the biggest flaw in the VAR system. How can some rules be enforced by technology and not others? |  |
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| What is the point in VAR if it doesn’t pick things like this up? on 21:26 - May 20 with 1081 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| What is the point in VAR if it doesn’t pick things like this up? on 18:31 - May 20 by LankHenners |
I typed that up quickly and messed up my sentence there - I meant to say it’s poor at this level in particular with relation to the general accepted wisdom that referees are bad which is why, some say, we need VAR. My point really was that fans thinking refs are bad and blaming them for everything is part of the game and one that should be accepted rather than try to create some perfect world where every decision is made ‘correctly’. |
If you haven't already, have a listen to Season 1 of Michael Lewis' podcast "Against The Rules" - the first episode is about the video review system introduced into the NBA a few years ago - though in a different sport, it covers the very issue you mention about referees! :-) | |
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| What is the point in VAR if it doesn’t pick things like this up? on 21:36 - May 20 with 1079 views | wellsy700 |
| What is the point in VAR if it doesn’t pick things like this up? on 08:47 - May 20 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Jesus H, VAR is one of the worst things in football. You have to be a special kind of saddo to be demanding a goal is ruled out because someone’s foot was over the line on a throw in |
Ok but where do you draw the line? (Pardon the pun) If both feet are over the line on a throw in? |  |
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