Please log in or register. Registered visitors get fewer ads.
Forum index | Previous Thread | Next thread
You should treasure the NHS and guard it with your life 11:25 - May 20 with 2885 viewsIllinoisblue

I say that after reading through the charges for my daughter’s knee surgery. Total cost $61,000. Now, we have good insurance coverage and will “only” have to pay about 3k but still. The breakdown of charges is interesting. The surgery was to fix persistent knee dislocations while playing basketball and is known as MPFL repair. It involves replacing an existing ligament with a tendon from an unfortunate dead person. The surgeon said she’s been given a “nice beefy strong tendon”. Which is good, I guess. The charge for that tendon? $7k. Where exactly that money goes I have no idea.

Charges for the surgeon’s three hours of work about 13k. Most of the rest of the bill were for drugs and operating room recovery/monitoring.

Don’t let them take away the NHS or this is what you’ll end up with.

62 - 78 - 81
Poll: What sport is the most corrupt?

13
You should treasure the NHS and guard it with your life on 11:33 - May 20 with 1880 viewsMattinLondon

Pardon my ignorance- if someone didn’t have good medical insurance or none at all. Would they still be able to be treated?

Hope your daughter is on the mend.
0
You should treasure the NHS and guard it with your life on 11:35 - May 20 with 1866 viewsIllinoisblue

You should treasure the NHS and guard it with your life on 11:33 - May 20 by MattinLondon

Pardon my ignorance- if someone didn’t have good medical insurance or none at all. Would they still be able to be treated?

Hope your daughter is on the mend.


It wasn’t an emergency situation so no, generally speaking if you have limited or no insurance this is not something you’d get treated for. It’s a messed up system.

62 - 78 - 81
Poll: What sport is the most corrupt?

0
You should treasure the NHS and guard it with your life on 11:39 - May 20 with 1838 viewsSuperKieranMcKenna

Totally agree. People have different experiences and I’m sure it varies around the country, but unfortunately it feels as though it’s on its knees already thanks to successive governments.

Two members of my family have already had to pay for private appointments and consultations etc to avoid waiting months to be seen, for what could be fairly critical health issues.
0
You should treasure the NHS and guard it with your life on 11:42 - May 20 with 1790 viewsblueasfook

You should treasure the NHS and guard it with your life on 11:35 - May 20 by Illinoisblue

It wasn’t an emergency situation so no, generally speaking if you have limited or no insurance this is not something you’d get treated for. It’s a messed up system.


Explains the opiate problem in the US. Many cant afford surgery so they take opiates instead.

TWTD Veteran
Poll: How do you think season will end for us?

0
You should treasure the NHS and guard it with your life on 11:43 - May 20 with 1811 viewsHARRY10

The problem with that 3rd world 'pet plan' type insurance is there is every incentive to charge the insurer - so unnecessary tests, scans etc are carried out. Administration costs have also to be factored in.

There is also this bizarre 'individualism' lunacy in much of the US, where a greater focus is on what the other person is gaining, not what you are losing. With some over aggrieved that others would be getting free healthcare, even though it would be cheaper for all.

If the idiocy of the US system had any worth then it would be applied to the US armed forces. It is not. They have the same, as much of the world - free at the point of use. Simply because it is cheaper and more efficient.

But it is a timely warning, and very pertinent with Dorries spouting sh.ite about selling off Channel 4. This by a politician who did not know Ch4 was not publicly funded, Ch5 was not recently privatised and admitted to sharing her Netflix password - something against the rules.

Don't be shocked at how easily stupid people are willing to accept stuff just because someone as equally stupid as they are is proposing it.
6
You should treasure the NHS and guard it with your life on 11:52 - May 20 with 1737 viewsblueasfook

You should treasure the NHS and guard it with your life on 11:43 - May 20 by HARRY10

The problem with that 3rd world 'pet plan' type insurance is there is every incentive to charge the insurer - so unnecessary tests, scans etc are carried out. Administration costs have also to be factored in.

There is also this bizarre 'individualism' lunacy in much of the US, where a greater focus is on what the other person is gaining, not what you are losing. With some over aggrieved that others would be getting free healthcare, even though it would be cheaper for all.

If the idiocy of the US system had any worth then it would be applied to the US armed forces. It is not. They have the same, as much of the world - free at the point of use. Simply because it is cheaper and more efficient.

But it is a timely warning, and very pertinent with Dorries spouting sh.ite about selling off Channel 4. This by a politician who did not know Ch4 was not publicly funded, Ch5 was not recently privatised and admitted to sharing her Netflix password - something against the rules.

Don't be shocked at how easily stupid people are willing to accept stuff just because someone as equally stupid as they are is proposing it.


Regarding Netflix... It's only recently that they changed their policy on sharing outside of your household. If you were a standard or premium member it was perfectly OK to have multiple accounts that could access on one membership. But there was a limitation on how many could watch simultaenously.

TWTD Veteran
Poll: How do you think season will end for us?

0
You should treasure the NHS and guard it with your life on 11:53 - May 20 with 1759 viewsBlueBadger

You should treasure the NHS and guard it with your life on 11:42 - May 20 by blueasfook

Explains the opiate problem in the US. Many cant afford surgery so they take opiates instead.


Plus, drug companies are allowed to directly market prescription medication to Joe Public over there as well. People are very aware of what the 'good' drugs are.
[Post edited 20 May 2022 12:03]

I'm one of the people who was blamed for getting Paul Cook sacked. PM for the full post.
Poll: What will Phil's first headline be tomorrow?
Blog: From Despair to Where?

0
You should treasure the NHS and guard it with your life on 12:06 - May 20 with 1719 viewsIllinoisblue

You should treasure the NHS and guard it with your life on 11:53 - May 20 by BlueBadger

Plus, drug companies are allowed to directly market prescription medication to Joe Public over there as well. People are very aware of what the 'good' drugs are.
[Post edited 20 May 2022 12:03]


TV commercials for drugs are incessant. The drug companies must be spending billions on promoting their magic pills.

62 - 78 - 81
Poll: What sport is the most corrupt?

0
Login to get fewer ads

You should treasure the NHS and guard it with your life on 12:15 - May 20 with 1672 viewsDarth_Koont

You should treasure the NHS and guard it with your life on 12:06 - May 20 by Illinoisblue

TV commercials for drugs are incessant. The drug companies must be spending billions on promoting their magic pills.


This figure is 15+ years old but no reason to imagine the underlying discrepancy is different ...

But I remember at the time, for all of Big Pharma’s talk about the price of their drugs paying for R&D and trials, that they spent 5.5x more than those budgets on sales and marketing (Advertising plus junkets and gifts to doctors).

Also a sizeable proportion of the R&D is already paid for by the taxpayer in the form of university scientists and researchers.

Of course, they got Big by taking more than their fair share so it shouldn’t come as any surprise that’s how they operate.

Pronouns: He/Him

0
You should treasure the NHS and guard it with your life on 12:27 - May 20 with 1629 viewshype313

Indeed, I think I read somewhere a while back that something like 80% of US Bankruptcies are due to medical bills.

Shocking.

Poll: Simpson - Keep, Sell or Loan

0
You should treasure the NHS and guard it with your life on 12:30 - May 20 with 1618 viewsNthQldITFC

Is the surgeon's rate just rampant greed from a professional who can get away with it, or is it more than that? Obviously they, and people like lawyers deserve to be paid well given the effort they've put into their education and training, but it seems to me that certain types of people just want to grab as much money as they can to be able to say "I made $13K from three hours work yesterday, Tarquin, how about you?"

If that's all it is it's obscene beyond belief, but I realise there may be costs I'm not considering. Otherwise to be out to 'get' just as much as you can at the expense of the patients, in my view undermines the goodness of the fundamental job they are doing.

# WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE #
Poll: It's driving me nuts

1
You should treasure the NHS and guard it with your life on 12:30 - May 20 with 1618 viewsfooters

You should treasure the NHS and guard it with your life on 12:27 - May 20 by hype313

Indeed, I think I read somewhere a while back that something like 80% of US Bankruptcies are due to medical bills.

Shocking.


Step 1 - Have a heart attack
Step 2- Read the bill
Step3 - Have another heart attack

footers QC - Prosecution Barrister, Hasketon Law Chambers
Poll: Battle of the breakfast potato... who wins?

2
You should treasure the NHS and guard it with your life on 12:31 - May 20 with 1600 viewsSuperKieranMcKenna

You should treasure the NHS and guard it with your life on 12:06 - May 20 by Illinoisblue

TV commercials for drugs are incessant. The drug companies must be spending billions on promoting their magic pills.


I watched a series called “Dopesick” about the opioid epidemic- specifically OxyContin - a real eye opener, and amazing that these events could take place in the richest country in the world.
0
You should treasure the NHS and guard it with your life on 12:32 - May 20 with 1589 viewsIllinoisblue

You should treasure the NHS and guard it with your life on 12:15 - May 20 by Darth_Koont

This figure is 15+ years old but no reason to imagine the underlying discrepancy is different ...

But I remember at the time, for all of Big Pharma’s talk about the price of their drugs paying for R&D and trials, that they spent 5.5x more than those budgets on sales and marketing (Advertising plus junkets and gifts to doctors).

Also a sizeable proportion of the R&D is already paid for by the taxpayer in the form of university scientists and researchers.

Of course, they got Big by taking more than their fair share so it shouldn’t come as any surprise that’s how they operate.


The numbers are quite extraordinary. This from a 2019 article:

Of the nearly $30 billion that health companies now spend on medical marketing each year, around 68 percent (or about $20 billion) goes to persuading doctors and other medical professionals–not consumers–of the benefits of prescription drugs. That’s according to an in-depth analysis published in JAMA this week. The study broke down exactly how health companies convinced us to spend enormous sums on our care between 1997 and 2016. In that time, health companies went from spending $17.7 billion to $29.9 billion on medical marketing. Meanwhile, US healthcare spending hit $3.3 trillion, or 17.8 percent of the GDP, in 2016.

The finding that pharmaceutical companies spend most of their marketing oomph on charming doctors isn’t surprising, though. In 1997, a whopping 88 percent ($15.6 billion of their total $17.7 billion) of medical marketing went to swaying doctors, according to the analysis. And the way in which drug companies woo doctors hasn’t changed much either. They largely do so by sending sales representatives to doctors’ offices for face-to-face visits, providing free drug samples and other swag, offering payments for speeches, food and beverages, travel, and hosting disease “education.”

What’s new–and why this is now a shadier situation–is the explosion of direct-to-consumer (DTC) marketing that couples with those efforts for a one-two marketing punch. DTC advertising more than quadrupled in the timeframe of the analysis. That is, money spent on DTC–mostly TV commercials and glossy magazine ads–went from $2.1 billion in 1997 to $9.6 billion in 2016. And of that $9.6 billion, about $6 billion was for marketing prescription drugs, the analysis found.

62 - 78 - 81
Poll: What sport is the most corrupt?

0
You should treasure the NHS and guard it with your life on 12:32 - May 20 with 1588 viewsfooters

You should treasure the NHS and guard it with your life on 12:31 - May 20 by SuperKieranMcKenna

I watched a series called “Dopesick” about the opioid epidemic- specifically OxyContin - a real eye opener, and amazing that these events could take place in the richest country in the world.


Was that about the founder chap? There was a really good long-read article on him and his family a while back.

footers QC - Prosecution Barrister, Hasketon Law Chambers
Poll: Battle of the breakfast potato... who wins?

0
You should treasure the NHS and guard it with your life on 12:37 - May 20 with 1550 viewsIllinoisblue

You should treasure the NHS and guard it with your life on 12:30 - May 20 by NthQldITFC

Is the surgeon's rate just rampant greed from a professional who can get away with it, or is it more than that? Obviously they, and people like lawyers deserve to be paid well given the effort they've put into their education and training, but it seems to me that certain types of people just want to grab as much money as they can to be able to say "I made $13K from three hours work yesterday, Tarquin, how about you?"

If that's all it is it's obscene beyond belief, but I realise there may be costs I'm not considering. Otherwise to be out to 'get' just as much as you can at the expense of the patients, in my view undermines the goodness of the fundamental job they are doing.


I don’t think it’s necessarily greed and I agree that expert professionals should charge a premium for their services. I think it’s more a case of them playing the system as it is rather than profiteering. And of course, that 3 hours of work she put in, was enabled by years and years at medical school which comes with its own hefty price tag.

Insurance companies work with health systems to negotiate volume discounts so the “true” price of medical services is hard to decipher sometimes.

62 - 78 - 81
Poll: What sport is the most corrupt?

0
You should treasure the NHS and guard it with your life on 12:40 - May 20 with 1519 viewsSuperKieranMcKenna

You should treasure the NHS and guard it with your life on 12:32 - May 20 by footers

Was that about the founder chap? There was a really good long-read article on him and his family a while back.


Perdue Pharma- the Sackler family I believe.
0
You should treasure the NHS and guard it with your life on 12:43 - May 20 with 1511 viewsfooters

You should treasure the NHS and guard it with your life on 12:40 - May 20 by SuperKieranMcKenna

Perdue Pharma- the Sackler family I believe.


Ah yes, I think an American uni had to recently do a reverse ferret on naming their library after them. Very shady bunch.

footers QC - Prosecution Barrister, Hasketon Law Chambers
Poll: Battle of the breakfast potato... who wins?

0
You should treasure the NHS and guard it with your life on 12:46 - May 20 with 1475 viewsSuperKieranMcKenna

You should treasure the NHS and guard it with your life on 12:43 - May 20 by footers

Ah yes, I think an American uni had to recently do a reverse ferret on naming their library after them. Very shady bunch.


Indeed - doesn’t paint the FDA in a very good light either.

Well worth a watch
0
You should treasure the NHS and guard it with your life on 12:51 - May 20 with 1463 viewsfactual_blue

No, no, no.

People on here have said the US system is the Best In The World, so it must be.

Although that's because of their ideological standpoint, nothing else.

Ta neige, Acadie, fait des larmes au soleil
Poll: Do you grind your gears
Blog: [Blog] The Shape We're In

0
You should treasure the NHS and guard it with your life on 12:52 - May 20 with 1453 viewsfactual_blue

You should treasure the NHS and guard it with your life on 12:30 - May 20 by footers

Step 1 - Have a heart attack
Step 2- Read the bill
Step3 - Have another heart attack


Step 4: Die, as Step 1 means you're no longer covered for heart attacks.

Ta neige, Acadie, fait des larmes au soleil
Poll: Do you grind your gears
Blog: [Blog] The Shape We're In

4
You should treasure the NHS and guard it with your life on 12:54 - May 20 with 1441 viewsNthQldITFC

You should treasure the NHS and guard it with your life on 12:37 - May 20 by Illinoisblue

I don’t think it’s necessarily greed and I agree that expert professionals should charge a premium for their services. I think it’s more a case of them playing the system as it is rather than profiteering. And of course, that 3 hours of work she put in, was enabled by years and years at medical school which comes with its own hefty price tag.

Insurance companies work with health systems to negotiate volume discounts so the “true” price of medical services is hard to decipher sometimes.


But what is 'playing the system' as opposed to profiteering? Does that mean, "well, I can charge this much so I'll do it because I can and everybody else does" as opposed to "I'm going to find whatever ways I can to get more out of it"?

Even if it is the first, they are still passively abrogating their responsibility to their patients by not saying "I could charge this, but I am not going to because I do not need it, and by charging it I am directly or indirectly making things harder for my patients."

Worshipping the free market at the expense of any form of selfless decency is where we are stuck as a species, and likely to remain stuck, but this seems to me to be a particularly obscene example and in direct contrast to the underlying intention of making people better.

# WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE #
Poll: It's driving me nuts

1
You should treasure the NHS and guard it with your life on 13:01 - May 20 with 1399 viewsBlueBadger

You should treasure the NHS and guard it with your life on 12:30 - May 20 by NthQldITFC

Is the surgeon's rate just rampant greed from a professional who can get away with it, or is it more than that? Obviously they, and people like lawyers deserve to be paid well given the effort they've put into their education and training, but it seems to me that certain types of people just want to grab as much money as they can to be able to say "I made $13K from three hours work yesterday, Tarquin, how about you?"

If that's all it is it's obscene beyond belief, but I realise there may be costs I'm not considering. Otherwise to be out to 'get' just as much as you can at the expense of the patients, in my view undermines the goodness of the fundamental job they are doing.


Surgeons as a medical 'culture' tend to be more of a 'do more' crowd anyway. A cautious physician will start some treatment and watch and wait to see the effects. A surgeon will chuck more tests, scans and procedures(which may include ITU support post-procedure) at something. Which is a reflection upon training and attitudes of the respective disciplines, so any kind of surgical admission has the potential to be more expansive alway, however, add in a financial incentive and the temptation to 'kitchen sink' it may be very high

I'm one of the people who was blamed for getting Paul Cook sacked. PM for the full post.
Poll: What will Phil's first headline be tomorrow?
Blog: From Despair to Where?

0
You should treasure the NHS and guard it with your life on 13:05 - May 20 with 1362 viewsIllinoisblue

You should treasure the NHS and guard it with your life on 12:54 - May 20 by NthQldITFC

But what is 'playing the system' as opposed to profiteering? Does that mean, "well, I can charge this much so I'll do it because I can and everybody else does" as opposed to "I'm going to find whatever ways I can to get more out of it"?

Even if it is the first, they are still passively abrogating their responsibility to their patients by not saying "I could charge this, but I am not going to because I do not need it, and by charging it I am directly or indirectly making things harder for my patients."

Worshipping the free market at the expense of any form of selfless decency is where we are stuck as a species, and likely to remain stuck, but this seems to me to be a particularly obscene example and in direct contrast to the underlying intention of making people better.


The surgeon won’t be setting her own hourly rate; what she charges will already have been agreed and negotiated by her health system employer and the insurance company. And again, that 13k figure won’t be what the surgeon receives.

That’s another fallacy of the American healthcare system, that consumers are free to shop around to find the best care they can. That’s largely nonsense as if you have insurance you’re restricted to your pre-defined network of providers and there’s no transparency on costs. And if you don’t have insurance you’re not shopping around for anything anyway.

62 - 78 - 81
Poll: What sport is the most corrupt?

0
You should treasure the NHS and guard it with your life on 13:10 - May 20 with 1317 viewsNthQldITFC

You should treasure the NHS and guard it with your life on 13:05 - May 20 by Illinoisblue

The surgeon won’t be setting her own hourly rate; what she charges will already have been agreed and negotiated by her health system employer and the insurance company. And again, that 13k figure won’t be what the surgeon receives.

That’s another fallacy of the American healthcare system, that consumers are free to shop around to find the best care they can. That’s largely nonsense as if you have insurance you’re restricted to your pre-defined network of providers and there’s no transparency on costs. And if you don’t have insurance you’re not shopping around for anything anyway.


I realise that there's a lot of 'system' between the $13K and the surgeon's pocket, but nevertheless the surgeon is the driving factor and her good intention could potentially be a trigger to reduce the cost to the end user, be that directly, or in the cost of insurance.

# WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE #
Poll: It's driving me nuts

0
About Us Contact Us Terms & Conditions Privacy Cookies Advertising
© TWTD 1995-2024