| Progressive nationalism in action 14:04 - May 29 with 4990 views | tractordownsouth |
SNP MP demonstrating her left-wing credentials by arguing that Scotland shouldn't be helping poor people from other countries... how is this any different from Nigel Farage and co calling for foreign aid cuts or blaming all our problems on Romanians and Bulgarians?
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| Progressive nationalism in action on 16:26 - May 29 with 955 views | tractordownsouth |
| Progressive nationalism in action on 16:22 - May 29 by monytowbray |
She’s arguing for it not just coming mainly from a Scottish sector when there are plenty of other UK businesses that should top up the coffers. This would mean more money to help everyone and not mean England pillages Scotland’s economy.
You are being disingenuous. There’s little else to add. |
The profits come from bill-paying customers across the UK, the majority of whom don't live in Scotland. The revenues from the windfall tax come from those paying bills, therefore they should also be spread back across the whole UK. | |
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| Progressive nationalism in action on 16:26 - May 29 with 955 views | J2BLUE |
| Progressive nationalism in action on 16:14 - May 29 by tractordownsouth |
She's not arguing against the short-term windfall tax solution. She's arguing for it, but with revenues taken away from poor people in England, Wales and Northern Ireland and given to Scotland. |
Have to say mate, that is a bit of a leap from what she actually said. |  |
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| Progressive nationalism in action on 16:29 - May 29 with 947 views | monytowbray |
| Progressive nationalism in action on 16:26 - May 29 by tractordownsouth |
The profits come from bill-paying customers across the UK, the majority of whom don't live in Scotland. The revenues from the windfall tax come from those paying bills, therefore they should also be spread back across the whole UK. |
So no Scottish people brought anything from an English, Welsh or Irish business?
Your point is falling apart at an exponential rate. I really would stop, have a think and walk away. |  |
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| Progressive nationalism in action on 16:36 - May 29 with 925 views | XYZ |
| Progressive nationalism in action on 16:26 - May 29 by tractordownsouth |
The profits come from bill-paying customers across the UK, the majority of whom don't live in Scotland. The revenues from the windfall tax come from those paying bills, therefore they should also be spread back across the whole UK. |
Eh? "Income generated in Scotland" - profits made by businesses based in Scotland, who export their product to the rest of GB&NI.
Attack her from the green angle, for sure, but it's a big stretch to squeeze what she's said in that clip into your agenda. |  | | |
| Progressive nationalism in action on 16:37 - May 29 with 926 views | tractordownsouth |
| Progressive nationalism in action on 16:26 - May 29 by J2BLUE |
Have to say mate, that is a bit of a leap from what she actually said. |
But keeping revenues in Scotland involves taking them away from other countries doesn't it? I don't get where else the money is coming from. | |
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| Progressive nationalism in action on 16:39 - May 29 with 919 views | monytowbray |
| Progressive nationalism in action on 16:37 - May 29 by tractordownsouth |
But keeping revenues in Scotland involves taking them away from other countries doesn't it? I don't get where else the money is coming from. |
Has Darren Grimes hacked your account today?
Jesus f**king christ.
The question you ask has been answered multiple times in this thread. | |
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| Progressive nationalism in action on 16:39 - May 29 with 920 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Progressive nationalism in action on 16:29 - May 29 by monytowbray |
So no Scottish people brought anything from an English, Welsh or Irish business?
Your point is falling apart at an exponential rate. I really would stop, have a think and walk away. |
It’s a nonsensical argument anyway.
The Energy companies are not paying a windfall on where the oil and gas was extracted - its on worldwide revenues. North Sea production for example is only a small proportion of BPs worldwide output. So by that logic should Scotland only receive windfall revenue based on oil and gas in Scottish waters? [Post edited 29 May 2022 16:39]
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| Progressive nationalism in action on 16:40 - May 29 with 911 views | tractordownsouth |
| Progressive nationalism in action on 16:29 - May 29 by monytowbray |
So no Scottish people brought anything from an English, Welsh or Irish business?
Your point is falling apart at an exponential rate. I really would stop, have a think and walk away. |
And if windfall taxes were to come in on those businesses it would also be fair to redistribute across all 4 nations. Do you think the SNP would argue for Scotland to get less revenue if that were to happen?
Scotland is a net beneficiary of the union anyway in terms of tax paid in and spending paid out. That's not something I begrudge, but if she's looking at the wider picture (as you're implying) then Scotland does not pay for the rest of the UK. | |
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| Progressive nationalism in action on 16:41 - May 29 with 917 views | factual_blue |
There's nothing progressive about nationalism. |  |
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| Progressive nationalism in action on 16:42 - May 29 with 903 views | monytowbray |
| Progressive nationalism in action on 16:39 - May 29 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
It’s a nonsensical argument anyway.
The Energy companies are not paying a windfall on where the oil and gas was extracted - its on worldwide revenues. North Sea production for example is only a small proportion of BPs worldwide output. So by that logic should Scotland only receive windfall revenue based on oil and gas in Scottish waters? [Post edited 29 May 2022 16:39]
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Who cares would be my actual answer. We are debating what to do about a mouse under the sofa whilst a 50 ft radioactive elephant equipped with submachine guns being ridden by the second coming of Hitler charges towards the house. | |
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| Progressive nationalism in action on 16:44 - May 29 with 897 views | monytowbray |
| Progressive nationalism in action on 16:40 - May 29 by tractordownsouth |
And if windfall taxes were to come in on those businesses it would also be fair to redistribute across all 4 nations. Do you think the SNP would argue for Scotland to get less revenue if that were to happen?
Scotland is a net beneficiary of the union anyway in terms of tax paid in and spending paid out. That's not something I begrudge, but if she's looking at the wider picture (as you're implying) then Scotland does not pay for the rest of the UK. |
But there are not windfall taxes on other businesses being proposed.
Therefore her point is valid and your argument is disingenuous on that basis.
Come on FFS. This is painful. | |
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| Progressive nationalism in action on 16:46 - May 29 with 888 views | J2BLUE |
| Progressive nationalism in action on 16:44 - May 29 by monytowbray |
But there are not windfall taxes on other businesses being proposed.
Therefore her point is valid and your argument is disingenuous on that basis.
Come on FFS. This is painful. |
Let's stick a massive windfall tax on Amazon. They must have seen more business during the pandemic. | |
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| Progressive nationalism in action on 16:47 - May 29 with 889 views | monytowbray |
| Progressive nationalism in action on 16:41 - May 29 by factual_blue |
There's nothing progressive about nationalism. |
The SNP and the BNP aren’t the same though. Sort of like how people say Nazis and Socialists are the same thing because of words.
It’s all very silly GOTCHA points debated by thickos. | |
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| Progressive nationalism in action on 16:50 - May 29 with 879 views | monytowbray |
| Progressive nationalism in action on 16:46 - May 29 by J2BLUE |
Let's stick a massive windfall tax on Amazon. They must have seen more business during the pandemic. |
Let’s dismantle corporations and put a limit on how big an empire one can grow so stop the isolation of spending power being dictated by greed.
As mentioned already in this thread, even though windfall tax is a step in the right direction, by the time we actually debate doing what we need to do to prevent a doomed planet it’ll be decades too late.
Bookmark all my posts. | |
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| Progressive nationalism in action on 16:53 - May 29 with 867 views | tractordownsouth |
| Progressive nationalism in action on 16:44 - May 29 by monytowbray |
But there are not windfall taxes on other businesses being proposed.
Therefore her point is valid and your argument is disingenuous on that basis.
Come on FFS. This is painful. |
I'm aware of that and I also think companies like Amazon should pay more, especially after they took a lot of the business from high street shops during lockdowns. However, taxes in England pay for the deficit in Scotland. Again that's not something I begrudge because social deprivation is higher in Scotland, but the SNP can't benefit from high tax receipts when it suits and then at the same time argue windfall taxes should be all theirs, especially given the current crisis for people across the UK.
Feel free to respond again but we'll just leave it there and agree to disagree. | |
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| Progressive nationalism in action on 16:53 - May 29 with 864 views | monytowbray |
| Progressive nationalism in action on 16:53 - May 29 by tractordownsouth |
I'm aware of that and I also think companies like Amazon should pay more, especially after they took a lot of the business from high street shops during lockdowns. However, taxes in England pay for the deficit in Scotland. Again that's not something I begrudge because social deprivation is higher in Scotland, but the SNP can't benefit from high tax receipts when it suits and then at the same time argue windfall taxes should be all theirs, especially given the current crisis for people across the UK.
Feel free to respond again but we'll just leave it there and agree to disagree. |
We’ve not agreed to disagree. You are wrong. End. | |
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| Progressive nationalism in action on 16:54 - May 29 with 864 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Progressive nationalism in action on 16:42 - May 29 by monytowbray |
Who cares would be my actual answer. We are debating what to do about a mouse under the sofa whilst a 50 ft radioactive elephant equipped with submachine guns being ridden by the second coming of Hitler charges towards the house. |
Right so you agree she’s making a disingenuous Brexit style claim then (emotion > facts).
I don’t care about Scottish independence, but I don’t think the comments are fair to the OP who’s simply called out some populism. | | | |
| Progressive nationalism in action on 16:59 - May 29 with 848 views | monytowbray |
| Progressive nationalism in action on 16:54 - May 29 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Right so you agree she’s making a disingenuous Brexit style claim then (emotion > facts).
I don’t care about Scottish independence, but I don’t think the comments are fair to the OP who’s simply called out some populism. |
No, she’s saying a windfall tax on energy is silly when big energy isn’t the only business exploiting the public.
That’s a fact, not emotion.
There is no populism in the post. To think there is would involve incredible levels of disingenuous hoop jumping. This is all laid out above by multiple posters and based on your response you’ve either…
1 Not read it.
2 Not understood it. | |
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| Progressive nationalism in action on 17:01 - May 29 with 845 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Progressive nationalism in action on 16:50 - May 29 by monytowbray |
Let’s dismantle corporations and put a limit on how big an empire one can grow so stop the isolation of spending power being dictated by greed.
As mentioned already in this thread, even though windfall tax is a step in the right direction, by the time we actually debate doing what we need to do to prevent a doomed planet it’ll be decades too late.
Bookmark all my posts. |
I've bookmarked the thread under how the aggressive presentation of good points fail to change people's opinion, because it gives little to no room for manoeuvre towards accepting the points.
Maybe you'll learn this decades too late too. Bookmark this and let me know if you change anyone's opinion ever. |  |
| Submit your 1-24 league prediction here -https://www.twtd.co.uk/forum/514096/page:1 - for the opportunity to get a free Ipswich top. | | Poll: | Would you rather | | Blog: | Round Four: Eagle |
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| Progressive nationalism in action on 17:05 - May 29 with 833 views | monytowbray |
| Progressive nationalism in action on 17:01 - May 29 by Kropotkin123 |
I've bookmarked the thread under how the aggressive presentation of good points fail to change people's opinion, because it gives little to no room for manoeuvre towards accepting the points.
Maybe you'll learn this decades too late too. Bookmark this and let me know if you change anyone's opinion ever. |
Which point have I lost here? The one where someone is wrong, their argument runs out of steam because of it and we all learn?
The truth is not the mid point between a fact and a lie. I can only present evidence and provide counter claims. I’m not responsible for anyone’s thought process.
Agreeing to disagree is simply subjective reality and in this case that subjectiveness has simply been proven wrong.
I can throw a load of vegans your way who will tell you I’ve changed plenty of minds, thanks. I’m also known to change my own mind in light of new info too which is more than a lot can say here. [Post edited 29 May 2022 17:09]
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| Progressive nationalism in action on 18:17 - May 29 with 767 views | factual_blue |
| Progressive nationalism in action on 16:47 - May 29 by monytowbray |
The SNP and the BNP aren’t the same though. Sort of like how people say Nazis and Socialists are the same thing because of words.
It’s all very silly GOTCHA points debated by thickos. |
They both draw their 'vision' from a distorted perception of the past. The degree of distortion may vary, but it's still there, and drives and fuels a sense of injustice about why things aren't like that any more. | |
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| Progressive nationalism in action on 18:39 - May 29 with 743 views | monytowbray |
| Progressive nationalism in action on 18:17 - May 29 by factual_blue |
They both draw their 'vision' from a distorted perception of the past. The degree of distortion may vary, but it's still there, and drives and fuels a sense of injustice about why things aren't like that any more. |
Agree for sure, but if I were a UK citizen in anywhere but England I’d probably vote first and foremost to get more control over our our own laws or choices as a nation. | |
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| Progressive nationalism in action on 19:30 - May 29 with 674 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Progressive nationalism in action on 17:05 - May 29 by monytowbray |
Which point have I lost here? The one where someone is wrong, their argument runs out of steam because of it and we all learn?
The truth is not the mid point between a fact and a lie. I can only present evidence and provide counter claims. I’m not responsible for anyone’s thought process.
Agreeing to disagree is simply subjective reality and in this case that subjectiveness has simply been proven wrong.
I can throw a load of vegans your way who will tell you I’ve changed plenty of minds, thanks. I’m also known to change my own mind in light of new info too which is more than a lot can say here. [Post edited 29 May 2022 17:09]
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"Which point have I lost here?"
The point where it was never about winning or losing.
- Come on TDS, engage your brain.
- GB News and Talk TV would pay good money for a presenter of such calibre.
- If you posted this on Twitter Tom Hunt MP would retweet it, that’s how poor your take is.
- just soundbite mud slinging - oh the irony.
- You’re not silly like some of our resident gammons here, I expect better.
- Think critically or stop wasting everyone’s time.
- Is it no wonder your only cheerleader in the thread is Glassers?! - Putting down two people at once
- Your point is falling apart at an exponential rate. I really would stop, have a think and walk away.
- Has Darren Grimes hacked your account today?
- Jesus f**king christ.
- Come on FFS. This is painful.
All of this pugnacious rhetoric has absolutely nothing to do with, and detracts from, the good points you make. You say you expect better from TDS, maybe you should put that energy into holding yourself to higher standards. [Post edited 29 May 2022 19:31]
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| Submit your 1-24 league prediction here -https://www.twtd.co.uk/forum/514096/page:1 - for the opportunity to get a free Ipswich top. | | Poll: | Would you rather | | Blog: | Round Four: Eagle |
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| Progressive nationalism in action on 19:36 - May 29 with 668 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Progressive nationalism in action on 16:53 - May 29 by monytowbray |
We’ve not agreed to disagree. You are wrong. End. |
That settles it then, glad you cleared that up.
You so nearly got through a thread (on Scottish windfall tax) without mentioning Vegans and Tom Hunt. Maybe next time eh. |  | | |
| Progressive nationalism in action on 21:32 - May 29 with 595 views | giant_stow |
Harsh roughing up fella - you just called standard political bs, political bs. |  |
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