| Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated? 12:09 - Jul 7 with 7480 views | GlasgowBlue |
He’s fooled us all again hasn’t he? |  |
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| Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated? on 00:22 - Jul 8 with 1063 views | BLUEGOLD |
| Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated? on 19:02 - Jul 7 by GlasgowBlue |
“Smearing Labour”
Remind me why your new man Kier has booted Corbyn out of the Parliamentary Labour party again? |
You just don’t get it do you Tory boy |  | | |
| Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated? on 06:29 - Jul 8 with 1017 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated? on 19:02 - Jul 7 by GlasgowBlue |
“Smearing Labour”
Remind me why your new man Kier has booted Corbyn out of the Parliamentary Labour party again? |
Swervetastic. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated? on 07:22 - Jul 8 with 992 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated? on 06:29 - Jul 8 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Swervetastic. |
What exactly have I swerved?
You’ve had an absolute meltdown on two threads over what was a bit of gentle ribbing. Chill out old friend. [Post edited 8 Jul 2022 7:37]
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| Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated? on 08:03 - Jul 8 with 969 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated? on 07:22 - Jul 8 by GlasgowBlue |
What exactly have I swerved?
You’ve had an absolute meltdown on two threads over what was a bit of gentle ribbing. Chill out old friend. [Post edited 8 Jul 2022 7:37]
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This is what you do. Except you've swerved the meat of TWO of my posts before crying "What exactly have I swerved?" this time.
Instead of me copying and pasting, and then you finding another way to swerve and deflect, why don't you just go back and answer the points?
There's been no meltdown, I've merely defended one post from 3 years ago (that you decided to dig up) saying Boris might be good if he surrounds himself with good people. Why don't you have a go at defending your years and countless (and often lengthy) posts telling us the Tories are great?
I'm fairly chilled (about this at least, I'm in the middle of buying a flat, which I'm less chilled about!) | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated? on 08:05 - Jul 8 with 963 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated? on 08:03 - Jul 8 by The_Flashing_Smile |
This is what you do. Except you've swerved the meat of TWO of my posts before crying "What exactly have I swerved?" this time.
Instead of me copying and pasting, and then you finding another way to swerve and deflect, why don't you just go back and answer the points?
There's been no meltdown, I've merely defended one post from 3 years ago (that you decided to dig up) saying Boris might be good if he surrounds himself with good people. Why don't you have a go at defending your years and countless (and often lengthy) posts telling us the Tories are great?
I'm fairly chilled (about this at least, I'm in the middle of buying a flat, which I'm less chilled about!) |
Nope. I have no idea what it is I’ve swerved? What points haven’t I answered from your previous posts. Set them out and I’ll answer them.
You said I smeared Labour, I didn’t. My criticism was of the then Labour leader. He’s been kicked out of the PLP by the new leader over the same issue I was apparently “smearing Labour” over.
You said I talked “guff” about Corbyn (let it go. He’s history)., I didn’t. He’s been kicked out of the PLP by the new leader over the same issue I was apparently “talking guff” over.
Why did Kier kick Jeremy out if the Parliamentary Labour Party dollers? Come on. You can answer this without swerving.
[Post edited 8 Jul 2022 8:13]
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| Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated? on 09:18 - Jul 8 with 927 views | STYG |
| Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated? on 17:14 - Jul 7 by GlasgowBlue |
I didn’t vote for the Tories at the last election. In my posting history you will find that I have always been consistent in saying that Johnson is unsuited to high office. I never once thought he “might” make a good PM. I always said he would be a disaster.
What say you Syggers. Did you vote for the incompetent racist of the racist incompetent at the last election. Hand on heart I can say I didn't vote for either. [Post edited 7 Jul 2022 17:20]
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I'm quite happy to admit that the last time I voted it was for Jeremy Corbyn, a man who is still arguing for the same stuff as he was 40 years ago. A man whose voting history shows that he consistently looks to achieve fairness and equality.
I earn more than double the national average before you take my wife's salary into account. There are many things that the Tories do that help us and very little they do that hinder us. My wife grew up pretty well off with two very high earning parents. I grew up on a council estate and both sets of grandparents had a lot of kids and not much money and did the best they could but struggled.
I have worked hard to get to where I have, but know others who work just as hard, if not harder that don't have a pot to ..... well you know. That's the inequality the Tories create. There is plenty of money to go around but rather than us all have a bit, we've got these out of touch lunatics, half of which were born with a silver spoon who promote anyone with a quid less than them as lazy and work shy. Anyone who can no longer feed their children properly should have kept their legs shut.
It's not unreasonable to say that people that work hard should be able to afford to buy a house, put food on the table and clothe their kids. Instead people are working 60 hours in some cases and using a food bank! Plenty of decent people I grew up with are struggling and I am absolutely certain, under a Labour government their lives would be easier.
ANY of us could get cancer, any of us could lose our jobs, any of us could have a disabled child or have a child get ill or need to look after family and under this current government most of us, without limitless reserves of money, could be absolutely screwed tomorrow. I remember the NHS under Labour. The Police. GP's. Trains. Everything worked to a large degree. Now the country is utterly broken because all the Tories are interested in is sucking the money out of everything to line their pockets.
If you look at what the Tories have achieved in the last 12 years it's very little than benefits anyone other than the elite. By contrast look at what labour did last time there were in. A huge list of achievements.
I'm sorry, but you have spent large parts of the last few years promoting the Tories and bashing Labour. Now I can overlook that with certain types, but you come across as a very intelligent guy who certainly knows how both parties operates and chooses to act as you do in terms of promoting these b*stards. So sadly, I have to draw my own conclusions from that. [Post edited 8 Jul 2022 9:22]
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| Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated? on 09:53 - Jul 8 with 883 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated? on 09:18 - Jul 8 by STYG |
I'm quite happy to admit that the last time I voted it was for Jeremy Corbyn, a man who is still arguing for the same stuff as he was 40 years ago. A man whose voting history shows that he consistently looks to achieve fairness and equality.
I earn more than double the national average before you take my wife's salary into account. There are many things that the Tories do that help us and very little they do that hinder us. My wife grew up pretty well off with two very high earning parents. I grew up on a council estate and both sets of grandparents had a lot of kids and not much money and did the best they could but struggled.
I have worked hard to get to where I have, but know others who work just as hard, if not harder that don't have a pot to ..... well you know. That's the inequality the Tories create. There is plenty of money to go around but rather than us all have a bit, we've got these out of touch lunatics, half of which were born with a silver spoon who promote anyone with a quid less than them as lazy and work shy. Anyone who can no longer feed their children properly should have kept their legs shut.
It's not unreasonable to say that people that work hard should be able to afford to buy a house, put food on the table and clothe their kids. Instead people are working 60 hours in some cases and using a food bank! Plenty of decent people I grew up with are struggling and I am absolutely certain, under a Labour government their lives would be easier.
ANY of us could get cancer, any of us could lose our jobs, any of us could have a disabled child or have a child get ill or need to look after family and under this current government most of us, without limitless reserves of money, could be absolutely screwed tomorrow. I remember the NHS under Labour. The Police. GP's. Trains. Everything worked to a large degree. Now the country is utterly broken because all the Tories are interested in is sucking the money out of everything to line their pockets.
If you look at what the Tories have achieved in the last 12 years it's very little than benefits anyone other than the elite. By contrast look at what labour did last time there were in. A huge list of achievements.
I'm sorry, but you have spent large parts of the last few years promoting the Tories and bashing Labour. Now I can overlook that with certain types, but you come across as a very intelligent guy who certainly knows how both parties operates and chooses to act as you do in terms of promoting these b*stards. So sadly, I have to draw my own conclusions from that. [Post edited 8 Jul 2022 9:22]
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Absolutely agree with your last few paragraphs a Labour government is needed to reset the economy and bring our public services back up to the level they should be.
However, had Corbyn not been installed we would have had that. There were many floating voters like be that could not bring themselves to vote for a racist/enabler (take your pick). Ultimately these were wasted votes. You seem to skirt around the issue that his enablement or incompetence allowed racism and bigotry to fester to the point of being investigated by rhe EHRC. Furthermore he then DOUBLED DOWN and got himself rightly booted out of the party.
I do feel Starmer has dropped the ball on the Single Market issues and many will be tempted to vote Lib Dem if they campaign to rejoin (the single market). | | | |
| Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated? on 09:56 - Jul 8 with 881 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated? on 08:05 - Jul 8 by GlasgowBlue |
Nope. I have no idea what it is I’ve swerved? What points haven’t I answered from your previous posts. Set them out and I’ll answer them.
You said I smeared Labour, I didn’t. My criticism was of the then Labour leader. He’s been kicked out of the PLP by the new leader over the same issue I was apparently “smearing Labour” over.
You said I talked “guff” about Corbyn (let it go. He’s history)., I didn’t. He’s been kicked out of the PLP by the new leader over the same issue I was apparently “talking guff” over.
Why did Kier kick Jeremy out if the Parliamentary Labour Party dollers? Come on. You can answer this without swerving.
[Post edited 8 Jul 2022 8:13]
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"Corbyn was suspended from Labour Party membership in October 2020 after stating antisemitism in the party had been overstated for political reasons. The membership suspension was lifted a month later..."
That's not saying Corbyn is antisemitic - as you attested over and over again. It's saying he believes the antisemitism was exaggerated for political reasons. i.e. smearing. The irony that you're claiming Keir kicked him out for the same reasons you were attacking him is astonishing!
Now as to what you're avoiding (I guess I'm going to have to dance your dance as you refuse to find and answer the points yourself):
1. "The brass neck of YOU of all people ...this absolute shambles of a government, the lies, the corruption, the incompetence, the law breaking... is on you. You championed these scumbags for years.' How on earth can you have a dig at me for one post saying Boris might be good if he gets the right people... when you've posted countless posts about how great the Tories are for years?!
2. "This country is in a far worse state than you could've ever DREAMED..." Any comment on this? You think Labour would've done worse than what we've had under the Tories?
3. "That's without mentioning Brexit FFS!" Kind of a side point - but this was championed by Boris and you fell for it.
4. "YEARS of championing the Tories and smearing Labour - reams and reams of threads quoting Guido - some so long people didn't bother reading them. Yet not voting for them once and you wash your hands of it all. How much time did you waste supporting this shower?" What say you to this accusation? You think we should just ignore everything you've posted previously just because you didn't vote Tory at the last election?
I know you're bright enough to work out what I was asking - but I also know you'll deflect and not answer if I don't lay them out. So there you go. Fill your boots. [Post edited 8 Jul 2022 10:05]
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| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated? on 10:25 - Jul 8 with 853 views | STYG |
| Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated? on 09:53 - Jul 8 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Absolutely agree with your last few paragraphs a Labour government is needed to reset the economy and bring our public services back up to the level they should be.
However, had Corbyn not been installed we would have had that. There were many floating voters like be that could not bring themselves to vote for a racist/enabler (take your pick). Ultimately these were wasted votes. You seem to skirt around the issue that his enablement or incompetence allowed racism and bigotry to fester to the point of being investigated by rhe EHRC. Furthermore he then DOUBLED DOWN and got himself rightly booted out of the party.
I do feel Starmer has dropped the ball on the Single Market issues and many will be tempted to vote Lib Dem if they campaign to rejoin (the single market). |
I have said before that I don't know a huge amount about the whole Corbyn anti-Semitism controversy so my comments could be wide of the mark.
But from what I saw of Corbyn's time, it seemed to be that all of the Tories had their noses in the trough and some (not all) of Labour had theirs in it too.
When I looked at the voting records of some of the Labour MP's nearly ALL the ones making a big fuss about Corbyn and suggesting he was a racist were the ones that had voting records that read like Tories.
Now that may be a coincidence, but it came across to me, in the little research I did, that the most Tory like of Labour MP's seemed to have an issue with Corbyn and not many of the rest of the party.
Which made me wonder if Corbyn actually did anything or whether some Labour felt threatened by him and got behind the scandal too.
Corbyn might be massively in the wrong here and I simply don't know, but I couldn't find a lot of proof at all in the media apart from him being pictured with someone or standing next to someone and given this media is proper up the Tory backside, I would imagine they'd have annihilated him if they had any proper shred of evidence.
Just my uninformed view. For me, Corbyn seemed to have done thousands of great things and this one thing, whilst serious, seemed an allegation rather than proof from everything I saw and the ones behind getting him out seemed to be the exact people I'd have thought were threatened by Corbyn's ideas of fairness and being for the many not the few. | | | |
| Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated? on 10:43 - Jul 8 with 841 views | Parsley |
| Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated? on 16:26 - Jul 7 by GlasgowBlue |
Has Johnson actually been to see the Queen yet? Because if not......... |
Has Boris Johnson actually resigned? As far as I can tell he's agreed there should be a new prime minister at some unspecified point in the future.
"It is clearly now the will of the parliamentary Conservative Party that there should be a new leader of that party and therefore a new prime minister. And I've agreed with Sir Graham Brady, the chairman of our backbench MPs, that the process of choosing that new leader should begin now and the timetable will be announced next week." |  | | |
| Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated? on 10:57 - Jul 8 with 797 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated? on 09:56 - Jul 8 by The_Flashing_Smile |
"Corbyn was suspended from Labour Party membership in October 2020 after stating antisemitism in the party had been overstated for political reasons. The membership suspension was lifted a month later..."
That's not saying Corbyn is antisemitic - as you attested over and over again. It's saying he believes the antisemitism was exaggerated for political reasons. i.e. smearing. The irony that you're claiming Keir kicked him out for the same reasons you were attacking him is astonishing!
Now as to what you're avoiding (I guess I'm going to have to dance your dance as you refuse to find and answer the points yourself):
1. "The brass neck of YOU of all people ...this absolute shambles of a government, the lies, the corruption, the incompetence, the law breaking... is on you. You championed these scumbags for years.' How on earth can you have a dig at me for one post saying Boris might be good if he gets the right people... when you've posted countless posts about how great the Tories are for years?!
2. "This country is in a far worse state than you could've ever DREAMED..." Any comment on this? You think Labour would've done worse than what we've had under the Tories?
3. "That's without mentioning Brexit FFS!" Kind of a side point - but this was championed by Boris and you fell for it.
4. "YEARS of championing the Tories and smearing Labour - reams and reams of threads quoting Guido - some so long people didn't bother reading them. Yet not voting for them once and you wash your hands of it all. How much time did you waste supporting this shower?" What say you to this accusation? You think we should just ignore everything you've posted previously just because you didn't vote Tory at the last election?
I know you're bright enough to work out what I was asking - but I also know you'll deflect and not answer if I don't lay them out. So there you go. Fill your boots. [Post edited 8 Jul 2022 10:05]
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Keir Starmer kicked Corbyn out of the Parliamentary Labour party in 2020. He is still out of the PLP.
Corbyn was kicked out for "stating antisemitism in the party had been overstated for political reasons". The same as you have doe on here over a six year period. As Starmer said, If you say antisemitism is exaggerated for factional reasons you minimise it.
Corbyn is no longer a Labour MP. This is the Labour leader we are talking about.
Now to address your points.
1. I voted Conservative all of my life up to 2017. I have never ever supported Boris Johnson. I stated several times that he should never be anywhere near high office. That was before he became Foreign Secretary, let alone Prime Minster.
I resigned my membership of the Tory party the day Theresa May went into a formal relationship with the DUP.
You have previously stated that you have voted for all three of the main parties over the years.
Voting Tory in the past doesn't make me responsible for Boris Johnson becoming Prime Minister. Stop being so daft.
2. It's a hypothetical question. I didn't vote for either party. Was I prepared to throw the British Jewish community under the bus in order to keep Johnson out? No. I would have much preferred to have a better choice than voting for a racist incompetent or an incompetent racist.
3. I voted for Brexit. I won't shy away from that. I didn't fall for anything "Boris" (Don't call him that. He's not your mate) Johnson championed. I was a Eurosceptic long before Johnson decided which way he was going to go.
In hindsight I wish I hadn't. But I'll own my mistake. Unlike you regarding Corbyn. BTW, Corbyn was also championing Brexit long before Johnson.
4. I pretty much covered in 1. I voted and supported the Tories for years. Quite happy with that. Can you link me to more than a handful of Guido articles I linked. It's probably less than the number of Russell Brand "Trews" links you endlessly posted on here.
And I never smeared Labour. I was very outspoken about the antisemitism issue in the labour party. Sorry you think speaking out against racism is "smears". If you were a Labour member, Keir would now be kicking you out of the party.
Most of your "points" are whatabouterry. You're sore because I ribbed you over your thread about Johnson. You should have just laughed it off likke 99.999% of people would do.
Jeez, you are in full meltdown over some gentle ribbing about you thinking Johnson might make a decent PM. You called it wrong. Own it. [Post edited 8 Jul 2022 11:16]
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| Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated? on 11:00 - Jul 8 with 791 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated? on 10:25 - Jul 8 by STYG |
I have said before that I don't know a huge amount about the whole Corbyn anti-Semitism controversy so my comments could be wide of the mark.
But from what I saw of Corbyn's time, it seemed to be that all of the Tories had their noses in the trough and some (not all) of Labour had theirs in it too.
When I looked at the voting records of some of the Labour MP's nearly ALL the ones making a big fuss about Corbyn and suggesting he was a racist were the ones that had voting records that read like Tories.
Now that may be a coincidence, but it came across to me, in the little research I did, that the most Tory like of Labour MP's seemed to have an issue with Corbyn and not many of the rest of the party.
Which made me wonder if Corbyn actually did anything or whether some Labour felt threatened by him and got behind the scandal too.
Corbyn might be massively in the wrong here and I simply don't know, but I couldn't find a lot of proof at all in the media apart from him being pictured with someone or standing next to someone and given this media is proper up the Tory backside, I would imagine they'd have annihilated him if they had any proper shred of evidence.
Just my uninformed view. For me, Corbyn seemed to have done thousands of great things and this one thing, whilst serious, seemed an allegation rather than proof from everything I saw and the ones behind getting him out seemed to be the exact people I'd have thought were threatened by Corbyn's ideas of fairness and being for the many not the few. |
He may have championed some good causes in his time but he evidently had a blind spot for certain types of racism. Whether he was was too thick to see any of it or ignored it for political expediency I don’t know.
Bear in mind the EHRC is neutral, not some kind of conspiracy against him. His comments that it was smears are quite frankly very offensive- dismissing the experiences of those who were target, and very much vindicated not voting for him. | | | |
| Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated? on 11:16 - Jul 8 with 753 views | Darth_Koont |
| Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated? on 08:05 - Jul 8 by GlasgowBlue |
Nope. I have no idea what it is I’ve swerved? What points haven’t I answered from your previous posts. Set them out and I’ll answer them.
You said I smeared Labour, I didn’t. My criticism was of the then Labour leader. He’s been kicked out of the PLP by the new leader over the same issue I was apparently “smearing Labour” over.
You said I talked “guff” about Corbyn (let it go. He’s history)., I didn’t. He’s been kicked out of the PLP by the new leader over the same issue I was apparently “talking guff” over.
Why did Kier kick Jeremy out if the Parliamentary Labour Party dollers? Come on. You can answer this without swerving.
[Post edited 8 Jul 2022 8:13]
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You’re right. Corbyn was kicked out of the PLP for the same issue you were championing. It’s the same disingenuous politicking.
You’ve never squared the circle – and you never will – about why he is still a Labour Party member and why you and the other loons aren’t screaming for Labour to throw him out.
But I’ll tell you why – because he’s not an antisemite and you know your silly accusations don’t make the case. That and, because it was never actually about antisemitism, you have what you want. Plus an unproven but blindly accepted narrative you can keep wheeling out to try and marginalise the left. |  |
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| Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated? on 11:19 - Jul 8 with 745 views | Darth_Koont |
| Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated? on 09:53 - Jul 8 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Absolutely agree with your last few paragraphs a Labour government is needed to reset the economy and bring our public services back up to the level they should be.
However, had Corbyn not been installed we would have had that. There were many floating voters like be that could not bring themselves to vote for a racist/enabler (take your pick). Ultimately these were wasted votes. You seem to skirt around the issue that his enablement or incompetence allowed racism and bigotry to fester to the point of being investigated by rhe EHRC. Furthermore he then DOUBLED DOWN and got himself rightly booted out of the party.
I do feel Starmer has dropped the ball on the Single Market issues and many will be tempted to vote Lib Dem if they campaign to rejoin (the single market). |
Never go full Glassers, James.
He wasn’t booted out of the party. But would have been if your accusation/narrative was in any way real. | |
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| Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated? on 11:23 - Jul 8 with 733 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated? on 11:16 - Jul 8 by Darth_Koont |
You’re right. Corbyn was kicked out of the PLP for the same issue you were championing. It’s the same disingenuous politicking.
You’ve never squared the circle – and you never will – about why he is still a Labour Party member and why you and the other loons aren’t screaming for Labour to throw him out.
But I’ll tell you why – because he’s not an antisemite and you know your silly accusations don’t make the case. That and, because it was never actually about antisemitism, you have what you want. Plus an unproven but blindly accepted narrative you can keep wheeling out to try and marginalise the left. |
Spot on. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated? on 11:24 - Jul 8 with 732 views | Darth_Koont |
| Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated? on 10:25 - Jul 8 by STYG |
I have said before that I don't know a huge amount about the whole Corbyn anti-Semitism controversy so my comments could be wide of the mark.
But from what I saw of Corbyn's time, it seemed to be that all of the Tories had their noses in the trough and some (not all) of Labour had theirs in it too.
When I looked at the voting records of some of the Labour MP's nearly ALL the ones making a big fuss about Corbyn and suggesting he was a racist were the ones that had voting records that read like Tories.
Now that may be a coincidence, but it came across to me, in the little research I did, that the most Tory like of Labour MP's seemed to have an issue with Corbyn and not many of the rest of the party.
Which made me wonder if Corbyn actually did anything or whether some Labour felt threatened by him and got behind the scandal too.
Corbyn might be massively in the wrong here and I simply don't know, but I couldn't find a lot of proof at all in the media apart from him being pictured with someone or standing next to someone and given this media is proper up the Tory backside, I would imagine they'd have annihilated him if they had any proper shred of evidence.
Just my uninformed view. For me, Corbyn seemed to have done thousands of great things and this one thing, whilst serious, seemed an allegation rather than proof from everything I saw and the ones behind getting him out seemed to be the exact people I'd have thought were threatened by Corbyn's ideas of fairness and being for the many not the few. |
I applaud you for looking into it beyond the superficial noise.
By all means, look further if you can a) ignore the vileness and dishonesty of the accusations and the accusers and b) avoid getting very fecking angry. | |
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| Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated? on 11:27 - Jul 8 with 726 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated? on 11:19 - Jul 8 by Darth_Koont |
Never go full Glassers, James.
He wasn’t booted out of the party. But would have been if your accusation/narrative was in any way real. |
To be honest I think you have good political values on most things.
But when it comes to Corbyn, you are no different from the MAGA crowd in some respects. You just scream “smears” (see fake news), for “the establishment” (see the elite). | | | |
| Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated? on 11:30 - Jul 8 with 708 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated? on 09:18 - Jul 8 by STYG |
I'm quite happy to admit that the last time I voted it was for Jeremy Corbyn, a man who is still arguing for the same stuff as he was 40 years ago. A man whose voting history shows that he consistently looks to achieve fairness and equality.
I earn more than double the national average before you take my wife's salary into account. There are many things that the Tories do that help us and very little they do that hinder us. My wife grew up pretty well off with two very high earning parents. I grew up on a council estate and both sets of grandparents had a lot of kids and not much money and did the best they could but struggled.
I have worked hard to get to where I have, but know others who work just as hard, if not harder that don't have a pot to ..... well you know. That's the inequality the Tories create. There is plenty of money to go around but rather than us all have a bit, we've got these out of touch lunatics, half of which were born with a silver spoon who promote anyone with a quid less than them as lazy and work shy. Anyone who can no longer feed their children properly should have kept their legs shut.
It's not unreasonable to say that people that work hard should be able to afford to buy a house, put food on the table and clothe their kids. Instead people are working 60 hours in some cases and using a food bank! Plenty of decent people I grew up with are struggling and I am absolutely certain, under a Labour government their lives would be easier.
ANY of us could get cancer, any of us could lose our jobs, any of us could have a disabled child or have a child get ill or need to look after family and under this current government most of us, without limitless reserves of money, could be absolutely screwed tomorrow. I remember the NHS under Labour. The Police. GP's. Trains. Everything worked to a large degree. Now the country is utterly broken because all the Tories are interested in is sucking the money out of everything to line their pockets.
If you look at what the Tories have achieved in the last 12 years it's very little than benefits anyone other than the elite. By contrast look at what labour did last time there were in. A huge list of achievements.
I'm sorry, but you have spent large parts of the last few years promoting the Tories and bashing Labour. Now I can overlook that with certain types, but you come across as a very intelligent guy who certainly knows how both parties operates and chooses to act as you do in terms of promoting these b*stards. So sadly, I have to draw my own conclusions from that. [Post edited 8 Jul 2022 9:22]
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Most of what you say there about your own upbringing and values are the exact opposite of Johnson and his clique.
It's heartbreaking that so many who have grown up in a similar situation to yourself, and haven't been able to get themselves into a much better financial position as you have done, still think that Boris is their champion because he waves Union Jack's at every opportunity.
The Labour Party have failed to promote any kind of positive, progressive Briitish patriotism, which is obviously a huge part of the problem. And not just the Corbynistas, wasn't it Emily Thornberry who sneered at a house with a white van and St George flags? | | | |
| Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated? on 11:30 - Jul 8 with 706 views | Darth_Koont |
| Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated? on 11:27 - Jul 8 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
To be honest I think you have good political values on most things.
But when it comes to Corbyn, you are no different from the MAGA crowd in some respects. You just scream “smears” (see fake news), for “the establishment” (see the elite). |
You didn’t address my point re: the lack of substance in your accusation. You just moved on to another accusation.
I’ll repeat: Never go full Glassers. | |
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| Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated? on 11:37 - Jul 8 with 669 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated? on 11:30 - Jul 8 by Darth_Koont |
You didn’t address my point re: the lack of substance in your accusation. You just moved on to another accusation.
I’ll repeat: Never go full Glassers. |
What lack of substance? Was the party not investigated by the EHRC under his leadership? Perhaps that was just fake news? There were series failing found - you can read it in the Guardian, it’s not some right wing media assassination.
“it was Mr Corbyn's comments about the "exaggeration" of anti-Semitism that was the main reason for his suspension” | | | |
| Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated? on 11:39 - Jul 8 with 660 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated? on 11:37 - Jul 8 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
What lack of substance? Was the party not investigated by the EHRC under his leadership? Perhaps that was just fake news? There were series failing found - you can read it in the Guardian, it’s not some right wing media assassination.
“it was Mr Corbyn's comments about the "exaggeration" of anti-Semitism that was the main reason for his suspension” |
It’s my last post on the subject as it’s been done to death.
But that is why he was totally unsuitable for office, and for me I was left with a wasted vote. | | | |
| Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated? on 11:40 - Jul 8 with 660 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated? on 10:57 - Jul 8 by GlasgowBlue |
Keir Starmer kicked Corbyn out of the Parliamentary Labour party in 2020. He is still out of the PLP.
Corbyn was kicked out for "stating antisemitism in the party had been overstated for political reasons". The same as you have doe on here over a six year period. As Starmer said, If you say antisemitism is exaggerated for factional reasons you minimise it.
Corbyn is no longer a Labour MP. This is the Labour leader we are talking about.
Now to address your points.
1. I voted Conservative all of my life up to 2017. I have never ever supported Boris Johnson. I stated several times that he should never be anywhere near high office. That was before he became Foreign Secretary, let alone Prime Minster.
I resigned my membership of the Tory party the day Theresa May went into a formal relationship with the DUP.
You have previously stated that you have voted for all three of the main parties over the years.
Voting Tory in the past doesn't make me responsible for Boris Johnson becoming Prime Minister. Stop being so daft.
2. It's a hypothetical question. I didn't vote for either party. Was I prepared to throw the British Jewish community under the bus in order to keep Johnson out? No. I would have much preferred to have a better choice than voting for a racist incompetent or an incompetent racist.
3. I voted for Brexit. I won't shy away from that. I didn't fall for anything "Boris" (Don't call him that. He's not your mate) Johnson championed. I was a Eurosceptic long before Johnson decided which way he was going to go.
In hindsight I wish I hadn't. But I'll own my mistake. Unlike you regarding Corbyn. BTW, Corbyn was also championing Brexit long before Johnson.
4. I pretty much covered in 1. I voted and supported the Tories for years. Quite happy with that. Can you link me to more than a handful of Guido articles I linked. It's probably less than the number of Russell Brand "Trews" links you endlessly posted on here.
And I never smeared Labour. I was very outspoken about the antisemitism issue in the labour party. Sorry you think speaking out against racism is "smears". If you were a Labour member, Keir would now be kicking you out of the party.
Most of your "points" are whatabouterry. You're sore because I ribbed you over your thread about Johnson. You should have just laughed it off likke 99.999% of people would do.
Jeez, you are in full meltdown over some gentle ribbing about you thinking Johnson might make a decent PM. You called it wrong. Own it. [Post edited 8 Jul 2022 11:16]
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Darth got it spot on above so I've not much more to add other than;
Corbyn is still out of the PLP because he's refused to retract his statement. That's all he has to do to get back in. So it's actually Corbyn himself who's stopping it.
Also, you didn't just attack Corbyn for the same reason (him saying it was exaggerated). You attacked him for actually being an antisemite. You even call him a racist again here. That's very different.
I've never stated I've voted for all three of the main parties over the years. Good luck in your search for that post (I'm sure you'll try).
You're not responsible directly for Boris (I'll call him that because it's quick, easy and everyone knows who I mean) becoming PM, but you constantly voted for and championed the party he was a part of. You're complicit in this government being in power, regardless of Boris.
I didn't make a mistake over Corbyn. I believed in his ideas, in being fairer for all. That the country didn't agree and voted in what we got is hardly a mistake on my part!
I linked 2 maybe 3 Russell Brand 'Trews's. That's nothing compared to your (at one time almost daily) Guido links.
You constantly smeared Corbyn, starting with his tie not being straight and then going in harder. You even admitted there would be people in Tory central office combing through anything that might link him to bad stuff, however tenuously.
"He shared a stage with X" - one of yours - is clearly a smear. Just because you went on the same stage someone else had previously been on doesn't mean you agree with even one of their thoughts let alone all of them.
I said Johnson might make a decent PM if he got the right people around him. He didn't. So what did I call wrong? | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated? on 11:48 - Jul 8 with 629 views | STYG |
| Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated? on 11:30 - Jul 8 by ArnoldMoorhen |
Most of what you say there about your own upbringing and values are the exact opposite of Johnson and his clique.
It's heartbreaking that so many who have grown up in a similar situation to yourself, and haven't been able to get themselves into a much better financial position as you have done, still think that Boris is their champion because he waves Union Jack's at every opportunity.
The Labour Party have failed to promote any kind of positive, progressive Briitish patriotism, which is obviously a huge part of the problem. And not just the Corbynistas, wasn't it Emily Thornberry who sneered at a house with a white van and St George flags? |
The people I work with directly are on similar pay, so doing alright for themselves and are all Tories. I have blood most days from biting my tongue.
The favourite line during the Rashford saga was very much don't have kids if you can't afford to feed them. Pointless engaging with them.
My class mate at school left with barely a GCSE. Not the brightest. But got himself into a good job in the building trade, worked there for 25 odd years, had three kids, they were very well off and he lost his job when the company went under. His wife, a couple of years prior, had become ill with CRPS (can't pretend to know much about it).
They had to sell their home of 20 years, sell one of their two cars, eventually both of them, Mate got another job, much lower pay, longer hours, walks into work, they ended up having to use a food bank. Now admittedly he will say that they should have saved more down the years and they enjoyed themselves with nice holidays etc and they took for granted that life would carry on as it was, but he was the exact sort that couldn't feed his kids for a while when their house sale was dragging on. No nuance. No background. No appreciating that he fed his kids and provided well for 12 years (think that's what the oldest must have been) and then boom, in the space of a couple of years, life screwed them over.
And that's just one element I have personal experience of knowing about. Seen the same happen to loads of people I used to knock around with. Some of them had no qualifications, barely worked and are lazy. Most of them are normal, decent hard-working people and nearly all of them, aside from a few, have struggled over the last few years.
God knows how they are getting by now with the cost of living crisis. The sad thing is that a fair few of them around Brexit time and when Boris got in as PM were fully backing both despite realising how much harder life was going to get. [Post edited 8 Jul 2022 11:50]
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| Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated? on 11:49 - Jul 8 with 624 views | Darth_Koont |
| Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated? on 11:39 - Jul 8 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
It’s my last post on the subject as it’s been done to death.
But that is why he was totally unsuitable for office, and for me I was left with a wasted vote. |
Gmpf.
It’s your last post on the subject because we both know you can’t back that accusation up. Even now you’re scrabbling around for other stuff to conflate it with.
He wasn’t booted out of the party and not for his “enablement or incompetence allowing racism and bigotry to fester” because that’s a load of nonsense. If it were true he would have been booted out and rightly. | |
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| Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated? on 11:49 - Jul 8 with 624 views | lowhouseblue |
| Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated? on 11:00 - Jul 8 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
He may have championed some good causes in his time but he evidently had a blind spot for certain types of racism. Whether he was was too thick to see any of it or ignored it for political expediency I don’t know.
Bear in mind the EHRC is neutral, not some kind of conspiracy against him. His comments that it was smears are quite frankly very offensive- dismissing the experiences of those who were target, and very much vindicated not voting for him. |
political expediency is a big part of it. if people were aligned with him over their opposition to the US and the west, then he choose not to look too far beyond that. for him those were the issues which dominated his political life - the domestic stuff have always been secondary. but it goes deeper than that. all his political life has been spent amongst groups where anti-semitism is culturally engrained to the extent that they just don't see it any more. that 'internationalist' branch of the far left go right the way back the early C20th and are entirely bought into the jewish conspiracy stuff. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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