| Still hard to accept we in League One.... 08:58 - Jul 8 with 2242 views | Pippin1970 |
Anyone eise feel the same. Not so long ago lot us saying about that in the Championship. With no real competition 70 miles away its a shame. This is the promotion season. |  | | |  |
| Still hard to accept we in League One.... on 09:46 - Jul 8 with 2081 views | markchips |
I feel the exact same.
I could see some years back that Marcxus Evans was asset stripping and using the 'debt' as a tax reduction tool for his overall business. He then collected up £40 M and retained land with development potential. I am not saying he made any money but I doubt he lost much either.
Once he lost interest and Mick went , the rest of the time was an ongoing decline with ageing players that did well under the circumstances.
I am very optimistic for this season though. | | | |
| Still hard to accept we in League One.... on 09:52 - Jul 8 with 2055 views | Churchman |
Agree totally. It’s ridiculous that we have been so uncompetitive for so long.
Last season was a disappointment. Gloss it how you like, but mid table in a tinpot league was unacceptable.
I think we’re going in the right direction as a club and I hope it’ll show on the pitch this time. There are no excuses now. |  | | |
| Still hard to accept we in League One.... on 10:21 - Jul 8 with 2010 views | BonneNIL |
We sadly deserve to be in League One, Marcus Evans made us a non-competitive passenger in the Championship and cut the budget down to League One standards, hired 3 back to back League One managers, and the end result is we ended up with a League One club.
You end up where you deserve in football though, even in this league, we were not the best team in it by any stretch and haven't been since we joined. We didn't break the top 6 all season, and we were largely uninspired and poor at times, especially at the start under Cook, and towards the end of the season, there were games where we just didn't turn up.
We desperately need that key striker and midfielder to make us competitive in this league. Having Walton and Morsy for the start of the season will be a big advantage over last, but where are the goals coming?
Ladapo scored 15 in a good side last season, which is thereabouts a small improvement on Bonne's contribution of Bonne (12) and better than Norwood at 7. Jackson only managed 4-5 goals a season during his entire tenure here. The kid from Arsenal is an unknown quantity but hasn't been on fire anywhere he has been yet, so for me we desperately need a forward. As for Piggott, he was one of the poorest performers last season. Chaplin scored just 9, and admittedly he wasn't played in that role.
I just don't see the goals, and we need them as much as we needed stability at the back. |  |
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| Still hard to accept we in League One.... on 10:23 - Jul 8 with 2001 views | Chrisd |
It's difficult to accept due to our past, however you remind yourself at how we were being run under ME and his constant cost cutting in his latter years it was bound to happen at some point. Lets be fair, since we've been in L1 there really hasn't been much to get enthused about apart from the odd good runs of form, we've fallen well short of a top 6 finish.
Nevertheless, I really do believe that with our new owners and MA pushing us onwards behind the scenes, they won't allow for consistent underachievement and MA seems to be driving higher standards at the club, which gives me real hope. Also, KM has had a very encouraging start with us in his managerial career, turn the draws into wins and I think we'll look a completely different proposition this season. Lots of the building blocks are already in place, just another couple of inspired or shrewd signings and this could be the start of finally turning our club around. You sense something is brewing at PR, we start delivering on the pitch everything else will fall into place. [Post edited 8 Jul 2022 10:37]
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| Still hard to accept we in League One.... on 11:16 - Jul 8 with 1877 views | J2BLUE |
| Still hard to accept we in League One.... on 09:46 - Jul 8 by markchips |
I feel the exact same.
I could see some years back that Marcxus Evans was asset stripping and using the 'debt' as a tax reduction tool for his overall business. He then collected up £40 M and retained land with development potential. I am not saying he made any money but I doubt he lost much either.
Once he lost interest and Mick went , the rest of the time was an ongoing decline with ageing players that did well under the circumstances.
I am very optimistic for this season though. |
Why didn’t Evans invest more then it he could use it for tax purposes? Why not take a risk free shot at the Prem?
No one has ever been able to explain how this would work. One poster promised to get his accountant to explain it and of course it never happened. |  |
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| Still hard to accept we in League One.... on 11:18 - Jul 8 with 1870 views | Garv |
| Still hard to accept we in League One.... on 10:21 - Jul 8 by BonneNIL |
We sadly deserve to be in League One, Marcus Evans made us a non-competitive passenger in the Championship and cut the budget down to League One standards, hired 3 back to back League One managers, and the end result is we ended up with a League One club.
You end up where you deserve in football though, even in this league, we were not the best team in it by any stretch and haven't been since we joined. We didn't break the top 6 all season, and we were largely uninspired and poor at times, especially at the start under Cook, and towards the end of the season, there were games where we just didn't turn up.
We desperately need that key striker and midfielder to make us competitive in this league. Having Walton and Morsy for the start of the season will be a big advantage over last, but where are the goals coming?
Ladapo scored 15 in a good side last season, which is thereabouts a small improvement on Bonne's contribution of Bonne (12) and better than Norwood at 7. Jackson only managed 4-5 goals a season during his entire tenure here. The kid from Arsenal is an unknown quantity but hasn't been on fire anywhere he has been yet, so for me we desperately need a forward. As for Piggott, he was one of the poorest performers last season. Chaplin scored just 9, and admittedly he wasn't played in that role.
I just don't see the goals, and we need them as much as we needed stability at the back. |
The hope is that with a better quality and more cohesive team overall, with a full pre season etc, we'll be able to spread goals around the side.
How many goals did centre halves contribute last season? Two or three?
Morsy should be looking for between 5-10 if he plays the same role as he did Jan-May.
If Chaplin plays more games than last year he'll be aiming for 15+.
I agree we need more up top but there should be pressure on the rest of the side to contribute. |  |
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| Still hard to accept we in League One.... on 11:24 - Jul 8 with 1839 views | Dyland |
| Still hard to accept we in League One.... on 11:16 - Jul 8 by J2BLUE |
Why didn’t Evans invest more then it he could use it for tax purposes? Why not take a risk free shot at the Prem?
No one has ever been able to explain how this would work. One poster promised to get his accountant to explain it and of course it never happened. |
There was a poster who banged on and on and on about his accountant pal who had explained to him in great detail how Marcus was actually making money from the debt. It was pointed out that if this pal was indeed an accountant he should be struck off, because he didn't know his assets from his ledgers. |  |
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| Still hard to accept we in League One.... on 11:57 - Jul 8 with 1735 views | J2BLUE |
| Still hard to accept we in League One.... on 11:24 - Jul 8 by Dyland |
There was a poster who banged on and on and on about his accountant pal who had explained to him in great detail how Marcus was actually making money from the debt. It was pointed out that if this pal was indeed an accountant he should be struck off, because he didn't know his assets from his ledgers. |
Yea that’s the one.
Clearly made up to try and add weight to the BS. | |
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| Still hard to accept we in League One.... on 12:02 - Jul 8 with 1714 views | PrideOfTheEast |
| Still hard to accept we in League One.... on 09:46 - Jul 8 by markchips |
I feel the exact same.
I could see some years back that Marcxus Evans was asset stripping and using the 'debt' as a tax reduction tool for his overall business. He then collected up £40 M and retained land with development potential. I am not saying he made any money but I doubt he lost much either.
Once he lost interest and Mick went , the rest of the time was an ongoing decline with ageing players that did well under the circumstances.
I am very optimistic for this season though. |
Which assets did he strip exactly?
The debt was interest free and therefore gave zero tax benefit. He would have utilised some of the losses ITFC generated against profits elsewhere in his group but that would give something like 20p in the £ benefit, so for every 10m he lost he'd have saved around 2m of tax elsewhere.
He lost tens of millions of pounds. | | | |
| Still hard to accept we in League One.... on 12:02 - Jul 8 with 1712 views | itfcjoe |
Yep, I still naturally think of us as a Champ club when I look at things like league tables....!
And the more I see of this league, the more it feels totally wrong we are when you look at what we offer - hopefully this year is the last we see of it |  |
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| Still hard to accept we in League One.... on 12:02 - Jul 8 with 1710 views | jeera |
| Still hard to accept we in League One.... on 09:46 - Jul 8 by markchips |
I feel the exact same.
I could see some years back that Marcxus Evans was asset stripping and using the 'debt' as a tax reduction tool for his overall business. He then collected up £40 M and retained land with development potential. I am not saying he made any money but I doubt he lost much either.
Once he lost interest and Mick went , the rest of the time was an ongoing decline with ageing players that did well under the circumstances.
I am very optimistic for this season though. |
What flipping assets? |  |
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| Still hard to accept we in League One.... on 12:15 - Jul 8 with 1661 views | Vaughan8 |
I feel the fact we have been in this league for 3 years and got nowhere near the playoffs by the end a bit embarrassing tbh!
Lets hope we go up this year! | | | |
| Yeah, I just saw that Southampton.... on 12:16 - Jul 8 with 1649 views | Bloots |
...are going to let Adam Armstrong out on loan, and I thought "He'd be a decent option".
Then I remembered we are crap and that he'll go to a Championship club.
FFS. |  |
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| Still hard to accept we in League One.... on 12:52 - Jul 8 with 1524 views | BonneNIL |
| Still hard to accept we in League One.... on 11:18 - Jul 8 by Garv |
The hope is that with a better quality and more cohesive team overall, with a full pre season etc, we'll be able to spread goals around the side.
How many goals did centre halves contribute last season? Two or three?
Morsy should be looking for between 5-10 if he plays the same role as he did Jan-May.
If Chaplin plays more games than last year he'll be aiming for 15+.
I agree we need more up top but there should be pressure on the rest of the side to contribute. |
We've lacked a goalscoring central midfielder since Tommy Miller as well, to think we once had him, Bent, Counago, Kuqi all on the books and still failed to go up!
I would hope Chaplinand Burns would at least repeat what they did this season, but I'd like to see us move on Piggott, Harper, and Edwards and bring in some better quality to replace them. I think we need cover at center-back as well. | |
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| Still hard to accept we in League One.... on 15:06 - Jul 11 with 1144 views | Garv |
| Still hard to accept we in League One.... on 12:52 - Jul 8 by BonneNIL |
We've lacked a goalscoring central midfielder since Tommy Miller as well, to think we once had him, Bent, Counago, Kuqi all on the books and still failed to go up!
I would hope Chaplinand Burns would at least repeat what they did this season, but I'd like to see us move on Piggott, Harper, and Edwards and bring in some better quality to replace them. I think we need cover at center-back as well. |
You're giving up on Edwards already? | |
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| Still hard to accept we in League One.... on 15:09 - Jul 11 with 1106 views | STYG |
| Still hard to accept we in League One.... on 12:52 - Jul 8 by BonneNIL |
We've lacked a goalscoring central midfielder since Tommy Miller as well, to think we once had him, Bent, Counago, Kuqi all on the books and still failed to go up!
I would hope Chaplinand Burns would at least repeat what they did this season, but I'd like to see us move on Piggott, Harper, and Edwards and bring in some better quality to replace them. I think we need cover at center-back as well. |
Move on Edwards?
Hahahahaha | | | |
| Still hard to accept we in League One.... on 16:03 - Jul 11 with 999 views | Mediocre_Quick |
| Still hard to accept we in League One.... on 15:06 - Jul 11 by Garv |
You're giving up on Edwards already? |
He's just upset his precious Macauley isn't coming back |  | | |
| Still hard to accept we in League One.... on 16:20 - Jul 11 with 939 views | BigCommon |
Well we are where we are.. But at least it feels like we've got some direction and we're moving forwards. I feel we are better equipped to get out of this division now... There's a solid feel to the core of our squad , and staff... There's plenty of clubs down here that are just treading water.. Little bit of fine tuning to do, But there's a steeliness about the squad, imo.. And I honestly believe we will go up this season... |  | | |
| Still hard to accept we in League One.... on 16:23 - Jul 11 with 908 views | Scout38 |
| Still hard to accept we in League One.... on 09:46 - Jul 8 by markchips |
I feel the exact same.
I could see some years back that Marcxus Evans was asset stripping and using the 'debt' as a tax reduction tool for his overall business. He then collected up £40 M and retained land with development potential. I am not saying he made any money but I doubt he lost much either.
Once he lost interest and Mick went , the rest of the time was an ongoing decline with ageing players that did well under the circumstances.
I am very optimistic for this season though. |
Sorry, but the tax reduction scheme claims are nonsense, and yes I do have the professional expertise in that respect. Corporation tax levels have never been higher than 30% in recent years. Evans isn't a fool and no one makes a loss of £1,000 to get a refund of £300. It's possible he may have tried to soften the blow with such a claim but I suspect HMRC would have put a stop to it quite quickly. We'll never know.
Evans bought a debt of £30m ish for £7m and I suspect his aim was promotion and taking the full £30m out of the first Sky payment. That would have been an excellent investment but he misjudged the promotion bit!
In terms of long term success we are probably capable of being in the top 30 clubs in the country. Historically we have over performed due in the main to a couple of extraordinary managerial appointments.
The problem we now have is that the current owners have again invested with a view to making a profit. Anyone who thinks they have done it for the good of the club and its supporters is living in cloud cuckoo land.
The other problem we have is that our players are League 1 standard. If we go up we will need significant investment to stay up. | | | |
| Still hard to accept we in League One.... on 16:55 - Jul 11 with 831 views | Vic |
| Still hard to accept we in League One.... on 16:23 - Jul 11 by Scout38 |
Sorry, but the tax reduction scheme claims are nonsense, and yes I do have the professional expertise in that respect. Corporation tax levels have never been higher than 30% in recent years. Evans isn't a fool and no one makes a loss of £1,000 to get a refund of £300. It's possible he may have tried to soften the blow with such a claim but I suspect HMRC would have put a stop to it quite quickly. We'll never know.
Evans bought a debt of £30m ish for £7m and I suspect his aim was promotion and taking the full £30m out of the first Sky payment. That would have been an excellent investment but he misjudged the promotion bit!
In terms of long term success we are probably capable of being in the top 30 clubs in the country. Historically we have over performed due in the main to a couple of extraordinary managerial appointments.
The problem we now have is that the current owners have again invested with a view to making a profit. Anyone who thinks they have done it for the good of the club and its supporters is living in cloud cuckoo land.
The other problem we have is that our players are League 1 standard. If we go up we will need significant investment to stay up. |
I’ll have to take your word for the stuff about tax, etc - I have no idea!
I agree with you about the owners not buying the club for our sake - they’ve bought it as an investment but have never made any bones about they. They speak openly about selling in the future. I wish it wasn’t like that, but it’s way better than what we had in ME.
I don’t agree with you about us having league one standard players. Some are, but several aren’t - Walton, Morsey, Chaplin, Wolf, Burns, Ladapo, Ball, Edmunson could all do a decent job in in the Championship. Of course we’ll need to strengthen if/when we go up, but so do all teams and the cost of that would appear to have been factored into the investment. |  |
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| Still hard to accept we in League One.... on 12:10 - Jul 12 with 536 views | patrickswell |
I can accept us being a League One club because we were so gash in 2018/19 and deservedly got relegated. What I do find hard to accept is the utter failure to finish in the Top 6 over the 3 seasons that we've been down here. There are a lot of different people who have to take responsibility for that to various degrees. One can only hope that a lot of the good off-the-field work which went on last season will lay foundations for sustained progress over the next decade rather than us yo-yoing.
I also think that for the first time since Mick McCarthy, we have a manager who has the respect of his squad both for how he prepares a team for matches and on a personal level. That could make a huge difference compared to the last 3 seasons. [Post edited 12 Jul 2022 12:11]
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| Still hard to accept we in League One.... on 12:28 - Jul 12 with 479 views | markchips |
| Still hard to accept we in League One.... on 12:10 - Jul 12 by patrickswell |
I can accept us being a League One club because we were so gash in 2018/19 and deservedly got relegated. What I do find hard to accept is the utter failure to finish in the Top 6 over the 3 seasons that we've been down here. There are a lot of different people who have to take responsibility for that to various degrees. One can only hope that a lot of the good off-the-field work which went on last season will lay foundations for sustained progress over the next decade rather than us yo-yoing.
I also think that for the first time since Mick McCarthy, we have a manager who has the respect of his squad both for how he prepares a team for matches and on a personal level. That could make a huge difference compared to the last 3 seasons. [Post edited 12 Jul 2022 12:11]
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Well said. A few decent additions and a few more moved on that will never make it like Penney and I feel we have a good chance this year. | | | |
| Still hard to accept we in League One.... on 12:34 - Jul 12 with 469 views | SE1blue |
| Still hard to accept we in League One.... on 12:10 - Jul 12 by patrickswell |
I can accept us being a League One club because we were so gash in 2018/19 and deservedly got relegated. What I do find hard to accept is the utter failure to finish in the Top 6 over the 3 seasons that we've been down here. There are a lot of different people who have to take responsibility for that to various degrees. One can only hope that a lot of the good off-the-field work which went on last season will lay foundations for sustained progress over the next decade rather than us yo-yoing.
I also think that for the first time since Mick McCarthy, we have a manager who has the respect of his squad both for how he prepares a team for matches and on a personal level. That could make a huge difference compared to the last 3 seasons. [Post edited 12 Jul 2022 12:11]
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Agree with this.
We finally look like we are focussed and have a far more professional approach to everything across the club. The relegation season and those that followed felt like people at many levels of the club were just coasting and disinterested. |  |
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