| Celina to Stoke 09:48 - Jul 13 with 10929 views | Wallingford_Boy |
Apologies if discussed already. |  |
| |  |
| Celina to Stoke on 11:39 - Jul 13 with 1599 views | Bobbychase |
I'm not as bothered as some seem to be. I remember Cambridge at home last season when we were building a real head of steam and looked to be on to sneak sixth. We were garbage that day, and Celina played the whole game and created very little. Cambridge parked the bus and we needed some guile and creativity to break them down - he couldn't provide it. We will face other games like that this season.
He doesn't track back that well and doesn't have much of a physical presence. If we are building an athletic team that can win the physical battles, I'm not sure where he fits in overall.
Would still love to see it happen, but for me he is not the magic bullet. We finished way outside the top six last season despite his odd moments of brilliance. |  |
| |
| Celina to Stoke on 11:44 - Jul 13 with 1515 views | Garv |
| Celina to Stoke on 11:39 - Jul 13 by Bobbychase |
I'm not as bothered as some seem to be. I remember Cambridge at home last season when we were building a real head of steam and looked to be on to sneak sixth. We were garbage that day, and Celina played the whole game and created very little. Cambridge parked the bus and we needed some guile and creativity to break them down - he couldn't provide it. We will face other games like that this season.
He doesn't track back that well and doesn't have much of a physical presence. If we are building an athletic team that can win the physical battles, I'm not sure where he fits in overall.
Would still love to see it happen, but for me he is not the magic bullet. We finished way outside the top six last season despite his odd moments of brilliance. |
Who's to say he's going to have the exact same season again? |  |
| |
| Celina to Stoke on 11:46 - Jul 13 with 1495 views | itfcsuth |
Said I will be really gutted if he isn't here next year, but it is looking more and more unlikely.
Seems like a deal can't be agreed here, and Stoke will clearly be able to offer a better financial package.
Probably need to move on and look at another target at this stage. |  | | |
| Celina to Stoke on 11:47 - Jul 13 with 1469 views | Bobbychase |
| Celina to Stoke on 11:44 - Jul 13 by Garv |
Who's to say he's going to have the exact same season again? |
I suppose he might be different as someone who is on the books rather than a loan player.
But he is not going to develop loads of muscle over the summer or decide he wants to track back and fly into tackles to win the ball back, so those points stand. he will essentially be the same player.
I'd love us to sign him But if it doesn't happen, we will have other options. | |
| |
| Celina to Stoke on 11:50 - Jul 13 with 1452 views | jayessess |
Think it's a shame if we've missed out on this one and unlikely we'll find someone better. If it transpires that it was doable, affordable and we biffed the negotiations, that's bad, if it's just a case of ultimately not having the finances to get it done, fine, that's life.
I think we've got a good enough squad to compete as is, but a little concerned that we might not be balancing ambition with realism as it stands... |  |
| |
| Celina to Stoke on 11:50 - Jul 13 with 1444 views | STYG |
| Celina to Stoke on 11:39 - Jul 13 by Bobbychase |
I'm not as bothered as some seem to be. I remember Cambridge at home last season when we were building a real head of steam and looked to be on to sneak sixth. We were garbage that day, and Celina played the whole game and created very little. Cambridge parked the bus and we needed some guile and creativity to break them down - he couldn't provide it. We will face other games like that this season.
He doesn't track back that well and doesn't have much of a physical presence. If we are building an athletic team that can win the physical battles, I'm not sure where he fits in overall.
Would still love to see it happen, but for me he is not the magic bullet. We finished way outside the top six last season despite his odd moments of brilliance. |
I'm 50/50 in favour of retaining him, which is great as I don't need to keep checking Cruncher's made up rubbish every 5 mins.
Because he had COVID last season and no pre-season I feel that he could become that consistent player we need to destroy teams at this level, as he did in a few games last season, but also the fact that he was similar to when we were in the Championship, didn't seem to get much better as the season went on (just flashes of genius) and the fact he's not been involved in Dijon's limited pre-season (or so I read) make me sceptical.
Celina would surely be our highest paid player. Is he going to perform like Walton and be 8/10 every week? Or Edmundson? Or Morsy? Or a 20 goal striker?
For me, he's not. If he plays to his potential every week he's the best player in League One, so we'd be mad not to sign him. But I thought he should have done a lot more under Mick, a lot more under Cook, a lot more under McKenna, so how often do we get unplayable Celina for what is a massive outlay.
Also feels like a player like Rudoni (going to Huddersfield it looks) is the sort we pick up cheaper, who goes on to be worth 3 or 4 times more. We are likely paying what a Championship club does for him, so if we go up, is he really worth anything more? That's another consideration. He isn't the athletic type we are targetting and Chaplin and Aluko show him up in terms of tracking back and doing the ugly side of the game.
A player you'd pay to watch but at least 50% of the time you'd leave feeling shortchanged. [Post edited 13 Jul 2022 11:51]
|  | | |
| Celina to Stoke on 11:56 - Jul 13 with 1383 views | Bobbychase |
| Celina to Stoke on 11:50 - Jul 13 by STYG |
I'm 50/50 in favour of retaining him, which is great as I don't need to keep checking Cruncher's made up rubbish every 5 mins.
Because he had COVID last season and no pre-season I feel that he could become that consistent player we need to destroy teams at this level, as he did in a few games last season, but also the fact that he was similar to when we were in the Championship, didn't seem to get much better as the season went on (just flashes of genius) and the fact he's not been involved in Dijon's limited pre-season (or so I read) make me sceptical.
Celina would surely be our highest paid player. Is he going to perform like Walton and be 8/10 every week? Or Edmundson? Or Morsy? Or a 20 goal striker?
For me, he's not. If he plays to his potential every week he's the best player in League One, so we'd be mad not to sign him. But I thought he should have done a lot more under Mick, a lot more under Cook, a lot more under McKenna, so how often do we get unplayable Celina for what is a massive outlay.
Also feels like a player like Rudoni (going to Huddersfield it looks) is the sort we pick up cheaper, who goes on to be worth 3 or 4 times more. We are likely paying what a Championship club does for him, so if we go up, is he really worth anything more? That's another consideration. He isn't the athletic type we are targetting and Chaplin and Aluko show him up in terms of tracking back and doing the ugly side of the game.
A player you'd pay to watch but at least 50% of the time you'd leave feeling shortchanged. [Post edited 13 Jul 2022 11:51]
|
I saw him score that worldie chip v Crewe live, and moments like that make him worth the admission fee alone But as you rightly say, would we get value for money out of him week after week if we made him our highest-paid player? I'm not convinced.
If we get promoted, the hints from Gamechanger are that they will then spend big to get into the Prem. We just need to escape League One and McKenna and Ashton need to put together a squad that can do that. If you look at Rotherham and Wigan last season, they were far more about dominating the physical battle rather than playing champagne football. | |
| |
| Celina to Stoke on 11:56 - Jul 13 with 1373 views | Garv |
| Celina to Stoke on 11:47 - Jul 13 by Bobbychase |
I suppose he might be different as someone who is on the books rather than a loan player.
But he is not going to develop loads of muscle over the summer or decide he wants to track back and fly into tackles to win the ball back, so those points stand. he will essentially be the same player.
I'd love us to sign him But if it doesn't happen, we will have other options. |
To suggest he doesn't track back is a bit wide of the mark for me. Not sure I'd want him doing too much tracking back anyway, let alone flying into tackles.
Last year was a disrupted one for him with Covid etc and joining us late. It's fair to suggest he'll be better prepared this year, especially having spent half a season playing in McKenna's team and being one of the first names on the team sheet (towards the end).
I don't see us having options as good as him in that position. | |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Celina to Stoke on 11:59 - Jul 13 with 1359 views | jayessess |
| Celina to Stoke on 11:50 - Jul 13 by STYG |
I'm 50/50 in favour of retaining him, which is great as I don't need to keep checking Cruncher's made up rubbish every 5 mins.
Because he had COVID last season and no pre-season I feel that he could become that consistent player we need to destroy teams at this level, as he did in a few games last season, but also the fact that he was similar to when we were in the Championship, didn't seem to get much better as the season went on (just flashes of genius) and the fact he's not been involved in Dijon's limited pre-season (or so I read) make me sceptical.
Celina would surely be our highest paid player. Is he going to perform like Walton and be 8/10 every week? Or Edmundson? Or Morsy? Or a 20 goal striker?
For me, he's not. If he plays to his potential every week he's the best player in League One, so we'd be mad not to sign him. But I thought he should have done a lot more under Mick, a lot more under Cook, a lot more under McKenna, so how often do we get unplayable Celina for what is a massive outlay.
Also feels like a player like Rudoni (going to Huddersfield it looks) is the sort we pick up cheaper, who goes on to be worth 3 or 4 times more. We are likely paying what a Championship club does for him, so if we go up, is he really worth anything more? That's another consideration. He isn't the athletic type we are targetting and Chaplin and Aluko show him up in terms of tracking back and doing the ugly side of the game.
A player you'd pay to watch but at least 50% of the time you'd leave feeling shortchanged. [Post edited 13 Jul 2022 11:51]
|
I think the Rudoni transfer illustrates the problem, doesn't it? If you're young and have had a standout season in League One, you want and can get a transfer to the Championship. So we actually aren't in a position to get that sort of deal done (we wouldn't be in a position to get the Celina deal done either without his prior connection to the club). | |
| |
| Celina to Stoke on 12:00 - Jul 13 with 1352 views | Bobbychase |
| Celina to Stoke on 11:56 - Jul 13 by Garv |
To suggest he doesn't track back is a bit wide of the mark for me. Not sure I'd want him doing too much tracking back anyway, let alone flying into tackles.
Last year was a disrupted one for him with Covid etc and joining us late. It's fair to suggest he'll be better prepared this year, especially having spent half a season playing in McKenna's team and being one of the first names on the team sheet (towards the end).
I don't see us having options as good as him in that position. |
That Cambridge game I mention was nearly at the end of the season, when he would have been up to full fitness.
He should destroy teams every week at this level with the ability he has. He didn't. That's my concern, in the context of probably making him the highest-paid player. Much as I enjoy watching him. | |
| |
| Celina to Stoke on 12:03 - Jul 13 with 1317 views | Guthrum |
| Celina to Stoke on 11:01 - Jul 13 by berkstractorboy |
No the club haven't or reputable sources close to the club. When there is a player that wants to be here, the fans want him to be, if you are building a community and you want fans to trust the club as they are with the high numbers of ST sales etc doesn't there need to be some honest comms. Not now while things are still live I am talking after whatever is done is done with Stoke.
BTW, I don't trust what Cruncher posting on twitter ignoring him but ADOBRA seems to be ITK and think there is some truth in what he is sharing. |
Not saying people are making things up (fans will sometimes get to know players personally and form friendships). It's more the idea of the club making official statements about ongoing transfer business. We've had too much of that in the past, giving hostages to fortune and ending up falling flat.
Don't think the club even needs to go into too much detail once things are over. Either we didn't try, we lost out or we succeeded. Which will be down to finance, the level we're playing at, or personal preferences from our Manager or the target himself. For me, it doesn't need a full run-down of the ins and outs of negotiations - some of which will, in any case, be subjective depending upon which side is speaking.
Is likely to lead to division among the fans, some of whom will believe that player is indispensible and worth any price, others of whom think not and would rather reserve funds for other targets. Also setting supporters against those running the club, who have to deal with budget limits and spending restrictions. |  |
| |
| Celina to Stoke on 12:06 - Jul 13 with 1274 views | BarcaBlue |
| Celina to Stoke on 12:00 - Jul 13 by Bobbychase |
That Cambridge game I mention was nearly at the end of the season, when he would have been up to full fitness.
He should destroy teams every week at this level with the ability he has. He didn't. That's my concern, in the context of probably making him the highest-paid player. Much as I enjoy watching him. |
No player in the football league destroys teams on a weekly basis, it just doesn't happen with anyone anywhere. Your expectations are unrealistic. |  | | |
| Celina to Stoke on 12:08 - Jul 13 with 1256 views | STYG |
| Celina to Stoke on 11:59 - Jul 13 by jayessess |
I think the Rudoni transfer illustrates the problem, doesn't it? If you're young and have had a standout season in League One, you want and can get a transfer to the Championship. So we actually aren't in a position to get that sort of deal done (we wouldn't be in a position to get the Celina deal done either without his prior connection to the club). |
It's very difficult.
A lot of us though mentioned Twine last year. Agreed, he may not have had that season with us, but this is where having scouts that have worked for Man Utd and presumably are excellent at what they do are and can apply that to other divisions.
It's a case of finding that League Two, Scottish, Irish, French player or two that's going to be Rudoni or Twine in a year. | | | |
| Celina to Stoke on 12:11 - Jul 13 with 1212 views | STYG |
| Celina to Stoke on 12:06 - Jul 13 by BarcaBlue |
No player in the football league destroys teams on a weekly basis, it just doesn't happen with anyone anywhere. Your expectations are unrealistic. |
You surely know what he means though.
Most weeks last season Salah showed up, Son showed up, Mitrovic turned up, Twine turned up. That's what the top players in the divisions do. 70% - 80% of the time they are brilliant.
Celina would be the top paid player at the promotion favourites. If you're an attacking player in that situation you have to turn up more often than 50% of the time. | | | |
| Celina to Stoke on 12:12 - Jul 13 with 1199 views | Bobbychase |
| Celina to Stoke on 12:06 - Jul 13 by BarcaBlue |
No player in the football league destroys teams on a weekly basis, it just doesn't happen with anyone anywhere. Your expectations are unrealistic. |
Wes Burns, who joined on a small fee from Fleetwood, outperformed Celina in terms of goals and assists last season. I think on this one people have been a bit blinded by the idea of making Celina a marquee signing
I want to get out of this division. If we can get Celina on a deal that doesn't disrupt the changing room by putting him on wages that are too far above the rest of the key players, great. If not, we should look elsewhere. | |
| |
| Celina to Stoke on 12:14 - Jul 13 with 1179 views | itfcjoe |
| Celina to Stoke on 12:08 - Jul 13 by STYG |
It's very difficult.
A lot of us though mentioned Twine last year. Agreed, he may not have had that season with us, but this is where having scouts that have worked for Man Utd and presumably are excellent at what they do are and can apply that to other divisions.
It's a case of finding that League Two, Scottish, Irish, French player or two that's going to be Rudoni or Twine in a year. |
The issue with that is does that player get in our team? We are packed with senior players and quality for this level that someone of that profile probably wouldn't make our bench |  |
| |
| Celina to Stoke on 12:14 - Jul 13 with 1170 views | BarcaBlue |
| Celina to Stoke on 12:11 - Jul 13 by STYG |
You surely know what he means though.
Most weeks last season Salah showed up, Son showed up, Mitrovic turned up, Twine turned up. That's what the top players in the divisions do. 70% - 80% of the time they are brilliant.
Celina would be the top paid player at the promotion favourites. If you're an attacking player in that situation you have to turn up more often than 50% of the time. |
No, I don't. Celina regularly put in a shift last season. | | | |
| Celina to Stoke on 12:15 - Jul 13 with 1160 views | Illinoisblue |
| Celina to Stoke on 12:06 - Jul 13 by BarcaBlue |
No player in the football league destroys teams on a weekly basis, it just doesn't happen with anyone anywhere. Your expectations are unrealistic. |
Nobody’s demanding complete domination from Celina, but he has for us and indeed in his entire career provided only fleeting moments of brilliance. That’s why he’s trying to escape a poor French club and move to Division 3 or 2. |  |
| |
| Celina to Stoke on 12:17 - Jul 13 with 1146 views | STYG |
| Celina to Stoke on 12:14 - Jul 13 by BarcaBlue |
No, I don't. Celina regularly put in a shift last season. |
Is a 'shift' worthy of being one of, if not the, best player in the any division?
I'm happy with a shift from my 5th top earner. For the main man you need consistent delivery. From an attacking main man that's got to be significant contributions not the fairly decent numbers he put up. | | | |
| Celina to Stoke on 12:18 - Jul 13 with 1125 views | STYG |
| Celina to Stoke on 12:14 - Jul 13 by itfcjoe |
The issue with that is does that player get in our team? We are packed with senior players and quality for this level that someone of that profile probably wouldn't make our bench |
That's the opposite side of the coin.
Too high profile they go to the Championship. Too under the radar they take a long time to force their way in, if at all with bit parts.
That sweet spot is incredibly narrow. It's finding Twine last season when he'd move to a bigger League One club after relegation with Swindon. Very hard. | | | |
| Celina to Stoke on 12:21 - Jul 13 with 1095 views | Bobbychase |
| Celina to Stoke on 12:11 - Jul 13 by STYG |
You surely know what he means though.
Most weeks last season Salah showed up, Son showed up, Mitrovic turned up, Twine turned up. That's what the top players in the divisions do. 70% - 80% of the time they are brilliant.
Celina would be the top paid player at the promotion favourites. If you're an attacking player in that situation you have to turn up more often than 50% of the time. |
Yes. the statement that "nobody in the Football League" destroys teams on a weekly basis doesn't really stand up to scrutiny when you look at players like Mitrovic. | |
| |
| Celina to Stoke on 12:24 - Jul 13 with 1070 views | Bobbychase |
| Celina to Stoke on 12:17 - Jul 13 by STYG |
Is a 'shift' worthy of being one of, if not the, best player in the any division?
I'm happy with a shift from my 5th top earner. For the main man you need consistent delivery. From an attacking main man that's got to be significant contributions not the fairly decent numbers he put up. |
We need players who don't just revel in the one-sided matches (Celina was unplayable when we thrashed Doncaster 6-0) but make the difference in the tight games that ultimately decide if you go up or not (Cambridge at home, Portsmouth at home, Cheltenham at home last season when we took two points from a possible nine). | |
| |
| Celina to Stoke on 12:31 - Jul 13 with 1017 views | STYG |
| Celina to Stoke on 12:24 - Jul 13 by Bobbychase |
We need players who don't just revel in the one-sided matches (Celina was unplayable when we thrashed Doncaster 6-0) but make the difference in the tight games that ultimately decide if you go up or not (Cambridge at home, Portsmouth at home, Cheltenham at home last season when we took two points from a possible nine). |
Exactly. That's what top players do.
Look at Marcus Stewart. Scored at Barnsley on his debut against a promotion rival. Does the same against Huddersfield. Had a dry spell and then a double in the playoffs. A goal at Wembley. In the games he didn't score he still played a bit part in some needed wins.
He was one we signed and all went 'proven'. There was little doubt he'd be a top player.
That's what our highest paid player needs to be. Someone you just know is delivering most weeks like all of the top players do. | | | |
| Celina to Stoke on 12:32 - Jul 13 with 1011 views | jayessess |
| Celina to Stoke on 12:18 - Jul 13 by STYG |
That's the opposite side of the coin.
Too high profile they go to the Championship. Too under the radar they take a long time to force their way in, if at all with bit parts.
That sweet spot is incredibly narrow. It's finding Twine last season when he'd move to a bigger League One club after relegation with Swindon. Very hard. |
Yeah, very difficult.
And people seem to present our choice here as being between Celina and some hypothetical other player who'll dominate almost every game, but for me it's probably between Celina and taking a punt. | |
| |
| Celina to Stoke on 12:32 - Jul 13 with 1001 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Celina to Stoke on 12:12 - Jul 13 by Bobbychase |
Wes Burns, who joined on a small fee from Fleetwood, outperformed Celina in terms of goals and assists last season. I think on this one people have been a bit blinded by the idea of making Celina a marquee signing
I want to get out of this division. If we can get Celina on a deal that doesn't disrupt the changing room by putting him on wages that are too far above the rest of the key players, great. If not, we should look elsewhere. |
You keep ignoring/forgetting/avoiding the fact that he had Covid, a heart problem, and subsequently no pre-season last year.
I dispute that he doesn't track back. I've seen it several times - but also, he can't/shouldn't do it all the time.
And you keep banging on about Cambridge. Maybe he had an off day. Maybe he had a niggle.
At the end of the day, we are very, very unlikely to get better than a fully fit Celina in this division. Whether we can afford him or not is another matter. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
