| This is the first Tory leadership debate I've watched 20:23 - Aug 4 with 4023 views | GlasgowBlue |
Christ Liz Truss is wooden. |  |
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| This is the first Tory leadership debate I've watched on 23:15 - Aug 4 with 1170 views | Lord_Lucan |
| This is the first Tory leadership debate I've watched on 22:35 - Aug 4 by FrimleyBlue |
I guess the easiest way is add it to their bill when they actually attend their next appointment. After all they booked an appointment so must need one.
Or if you're on UC. Take it from their next month's payment. |
There is no excuse to miss an appointment.
At the very least you can phone and advise you can't make it for whatever reason.
People need to take some responsibility in life. |  |
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| This is the first Tory leadership debate I've watched on 23:24 - Aug 4 with 1152 views | Oldsmoker |
| This is the first Tory leadership debate I've watched on 22:55 - Aug 4 by FrimleyBlue |
Sadly and why the jcps are a farse at the moment is that they give out only 6 month contracts. They move workcoaches across different branches and they don't actually bother to train them properly on how they can help those people who actually want help.
However unfortunately there are still thousands who are incredibly clever at playing the uc game. This is what makes that column A a massive problem for workcoaches like you met. Full of people with 0 intention of working, no desire to but we'll aware of how to play the system. But that's a discussion for another day. Thankfully I left my last job as I was a sub contractor helping those in need to get back into work.. unfortunately that was 1% of my day. The rest was meeting people playing the system and wasting my time. |
This is something that I encountered during my professional career.
I was a computer systems designer/programmer.
I was constantly asked "How can I get round the system?"
It was a mind set and it has grown and now pervades everyones thinking.
Apparently, rules are for dummies.
To get ahead you need to game the system.
If everyone cheats then there is no system anymore.
I'm not looking forward to eating Soylent Green. |  |
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| This is the first Tory leadership debate I've watched on 23:40 - Aug 4 with 1131 views | jeera |
| This is the first Tory leadership debate I've watched on 22:31 - Aug 4 by FrimleyBlue |
Lol how is It a tax.
If there's no penalty to missing appointments no wonder people find a reason not to go.
It's just like these UC appointments. When you actually have a jcp workcoach who follows the rules. You get sanctioned for not attending... amazingly that person keeps to their appointments.
So I think it's a great idea and long overdue. |
I'd say you've reverted back to being a complete dick with no idea of what you're talking about.
Shame, you seemed to be coming on quite well. |  |
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| Did either candidate set out any environmental policies? Or talk green issues? (n/t) on 23:50 - Aug 4 with 1116 views | unstableblue |
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| This is the first Tory leadership debate I've watched on 23:52 - Aug 4 with 1110 views | jeera |
| This is the first Tory leadership debate I've watched on 23:15 - Aug 4 by Lord_Lucan |
There is no excuse to miss an appointment.
At the very least you can phone and advise you can't make it for whatever reason.
People need to take some responsibility in life. |
If you were dealing with normal people you and Frimley would be right.
What happens when you do phone up and the only person you can speak to decides you are some sort of liar, or they just don't care either way and threaten you anyway.
Then what? | |
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| This is the first Tory leadership debate I've watched on 23:52 - Aug 4 with 1102 views | FrimleyBlue |
| This is the first Tory leadership debate I've watched on 23:40 - Aug 4 by jeera |
I'd say you've reverted back to being a complete dick with no idea of what you're talking about.
Shame, you seemed to be coming on quite well. |
Tbh Jerra I'm open to having my opinion changed on this if you care to share why you feel my view is wrong. If it's to do with sanctions etc. I arranged them so I do know that area.. if its to do with the missing of nhs apps.. that I'm open to changing my thoughts on as at present it's just an opinion of a personal thought no real research into it. [Post edited 4 Aug 2022 23:56]
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| This is the first Tory leadership debate I've watched on 00:09 - Aug 5 with 1086 views | jeera |
| This is the first Tory leadership debate I've watched on 23:52 - Aug 4 by FrimleyBlue |
Tbh Jerra I'm open to having my opinion changed on this if you care to share why you feel my view is wrong. If it's to do with sanctions etc. I arranged them so I do know that area.. if its to do with the missing of nhs apps.. that I'm open to changing my thoughts on as at present it's just an opinion of a personal thought no real research into it. [Post edited 4 Aug 2022 23:56]
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Try this as a real life example.
You've come home from hospital the day before. You've had triple surgery and you're in screaming pain full of several sets of stitches; some inside, some on the outside. You're morphined up to the tee.
To get out of bed you have to roll onto your side then take a few moments to get your breath, then you roll the rest of the way half onto the floor. That's how you get out of bed for almost a week.
You have a full bag of your own blood and urine next to you hanging over the side of the bed. There's no district nurses any more to help so you have to do all of this yourself. Change it several times per day etc.
Feed yourself, shower yourself...
The phone rings and it's some ***t from the JC telling you you've got to come in. He knows your situation and has all the relevant paperwork in front of him that you have provided in advance. He doesn't care because on his screen it says you have to come in or all financial support will be stopped. You can't drive for three months, you can barely stand.
What do you do? You've been in the week before, they know all this.
You have tubes in you, you are trying to wash several times a day because you are leaking blood and urine all over the shop. The bag bursts and coats the carpet so you have to crawl around and clear it upon your own.
You've worked 30 odd years straight and never claimed a thing in your life.
What are you making of this so far?
I explained all of this and was told tough, come in or face sanctions. If I was able, I'd have gone down there and killed him myself that very day.
Now tell me how they understand because you've had a little chat with them over the phone.
I can confirm that once I'd made a fuss and got to speak to someone human I received an apology and him a telling off. So I was assured anyway.
So yeah I have a lot of sympathy for people who are forced to face this kind of humiliation.
Anyone who has fallen foul of these people, be it them or HMRC or DWP will tell you it's a nightmare unless you can find a compassionate person to listen. | |
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| Or anything approaching sanity and/or basic human decency? (n/t) on 00:17 - Aug 5 with 1079 views | BlueBadger |
| Did either candidate set out any environmental policies? Or talk green issues? (n/t) on 23:50 - Aug 4 by unstableblue |
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| This is the first Tory leadership debate I've watched on 00:33 - Aug 5 with 1062 views | Lord_Lucan |
| This is the first Tory leadership debate I've watched on 23:52 - Aug 4 by jeera |
If you were dealing with normal people you and Frimley would be right.
What happens when you do phone up and the only person you can speak to decides you are some sort of liar, or they just don't care either way and threaten you anyway.
Then what? |
What, like you phone up and say you can't attend your appointment because your child minder has let you down.....
And then you are called a liar?
I don't get it. | |
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| This is the first Tory leadership debate I've watched on 00:52 - Aug 5 with 1051 views | jeera |
| This is the first Tory leadership debate I've watched on 00:33 - Aug 5 by Lord_Lucan |
What, like you phone up and say you can't attend your appointment because your child minder has let you down.....
And then you are called a liar?
I don't get it. |
Yeah you do.
I just posted a long post outlining it.
When did you become so unpleasant, honestly?
*Edit: I guess you didn't bother to read these bits.
"It's just like these UC appointments. When you actually have a jcp workcoach who follows the rules. You get sanctioned for not attending... amazingly that person keeps to their appointments."
"Or if you're on UC. Take it from their next month's payment."
No, of course you didn't.
Mums relying on the likes of UC all have child bloody minders coming out of their ears.
[Post edited 5 Aug 2022 5:18]
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| This is the first Tory leadership debate I've watched on 05:14 - Aug 5 with 1008 views | bluelagos |
| This is the first Tory leadership debate I've watched on 23:52 - Aug 4 by FrimleyBlue |
Tbh Jerra I'm open to having my opinion changed on this if you care to share why you feel my view is wrong. If it's to do with sanctions etc. I arranged them so I do know that area.. if its to do with the missing of nhs apps.. that I'm open to changing my thoughts on as at present it's just an opinion of a personal thought no real research into it. [Post edited 4 Aug 2022 23:56]
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Allow me.
For a policy to be worth doing it has to pass a few tests. As well as the "ethical" questions, there are the practical ones, namely how would it work?
So to start charging people for non attendance, you will need to assess those needing charging, to bill them, to collect the money and to deal with non payments. All of that takes both time and money and wouod need people to do it.
So at a time when the Nhs is understaffed, you want it to focus on recruiting an army of accountants, book keepers and debt collectors to manage a system of payment colections.
Remember when you suggested we close down all shops (in lockdown) and enlist the army to deliver food supplies to every home in the UK? Remember how we showed the idea was simply impossible to do? This one is doable, but only at a huge diversion of focus and huge cost.
So for me, leave aside the ethical questions of introducing charges into a free Nhs, the proposals fail the practicality test. Like so much recent Tory policy it is red meat to some but nothing more and simply won't happen. |  |
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| This is the first Tory leadership debate I've watched on 07:34 - Aug 5 with 951 views | DanTheMan |
| This is the first Tory leadership debate I've watched on 05:14 - Aug 5 by bluelagos |
Allow me.
For a policy to be worth doing it has to pass a few tests. As well as the "ethical" questions, there are the practical ones, namely how would it work?
So to start charging people for non attendance, you will need to assess those needing charging, to bill them, to collect the money and to deal with non payments. All of that takes both time and money and wouod need people to do it.
So at a time when the Nhs is understaffed, you want it to focus on recruiting an army of accountants, book keepers and debt collectors to manage a system of payment colections.
Remember when you suggested we close down all shops (in lockdown) and enlist the army to deliver food supplies to every home in the UK? Remember how we showed the idea was simply impossible to do? This one is doable, but only at a huge diversion of focus and huge cost.
So for me, leave aside the ethical questions of introducing charges into a free Nhs, the proposals fail the practicality test. Like so much recent Tory policy it is red meat to some but nothing more and simply won't happen. |
Agree with all this. Even if the idea with ethically sound, I really don't understand how this would do anything except cost more money.
What happens when someone doesn't pay their fine? Take them to court which costs thousands of pounds, absolutely eclipsing what the charge was in the first place. |  |
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| This is the first Tory leadership debate I've watched on 08:40 - Aug 5 with 921 views | Lord_Lucan |
| This is the first Tory leadership debate I've watched on 00:52 - Aug 5 by jeera |
Yeah you do.
I just posted a long post outlining it.
When did you become so unpleasant, honestly?
*Edit: I guess you didn't bother to read these bits.
"It's just like these UC appointments. When you actually have a jcp workcoach who follows the rules. You get sanctioned for not attending... amazingly that person keeps to their appointments."
"Or if you're on UC. Take it from their next month's payment."
No, of course you didn't.
Mums relying on the likes of UC all have child bloody minders coming out of their ears.
[Post edited 5 Aug 2022 5:18]
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Not sure what you considered unpleasant in my post but hey ho, I maintain that missed appointments are a scandal and that people should phone in to cancel if they can't make it. It is common courtesy at the very least.
Your "long post" was an extreme example and not the norm. The fact is that millions of appointments are missed because people forget, can't be bothered or got well again. All people need to do is pick the phone up and release their appointment for someone else.
Oh, and I haven't advocated fining people have I?
Nothing I said was unpleasant. This is the second time recently you have pulled me up, I didn't respond last time but I'd appreciate it if you got off my back. | |
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| This is the first Tory leadership debate I've watched on 08:51 - Aug 5 with 910 views | unbelievablue |
| This is the first Tory leadership debate I've watched on 23:15 - Aug 4 by Lord_Lucan |
There is no excuse to miss an appointment.
At the very least you can phone and advise you can't make it for whatever reason.
People need to take some responsibility in life. |
Should the NHS ping me a tenner for cancelling my app yesterday? |  |
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| This is the first Tory leadership debate I've watched on 09:04 - Aug 5 with 871 views | FrimleyBlue |
| This is the first Tory leadership debate I've watched on 00:09 - Aug 5 by jeera |
Try this as a real life example.
You've come home from hospital the day before. You've had triple surgery and you're in screaming pain full of several sets of stitches; some inside, some on the outside. You're morphined up to the tee.
To get out of bed you have to roll onto your side then take a few moments to get your breath, then you roll the rest of the way half onto the floor. That's how you get out of bed for almost a week.
You have a full bag of your own blood and urine next to you hanging over the side of the bed. There's no district nurses any more to help so you have to do all of this yourself. Change it several times per day etc.
Feed yourself, shower yourself...
The phone rings and it's some ***t from the JC telling you you've got to come in. He knows your situation and has all the relevant paperwork in front of him that you have provided in advance. He doesn't care because on his screen it says you have to come in or all financial support will be stopped. You can't drive for three months, you can barely stand.
What do you do? You've been in the week before, they know all this.
You have tubes in you, you are trying to wash several times a day because you are leaking blood and urine all over the shop. The bag bursts and coats the carpet so you have to crawl around and clear it upon your own.
You've worked 30 odd years straight and never claimed a thing in your life.
What are you making of this so far?
I explained all of this and was told tough, come in or face sanctions. If I was able, I'd have gone down there and killed him myself that very day.
Now tell me how they understand because you've had a little chat with them over the phone.
I can confirm that once I'd made a fuss and got to speak to someone human I received an apology and him a telling off. So I was assured anyway.
So yeah I have a lot of sympathy for people who are forced to face this kind of humiliation.
Anyone who has fallen foul of these people, be it them or HMRC or DWP will tell you it's a nightmare unless you can find a compassionate person to listen. |
In this example, the person in question would have been able to obtain a fitnote ( stupid name for them nowadays) advising that they are not able to attend the appointments in physical form for a certain number of days/weeks etc and will be assessed again on...
If this wasn't available at that time then questions should have been asked of the medical team on why they didn't provide this when said person was discharged. | |
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| This is the first Tory leadership debate I've watched on 09:08 - Aug 5 with 856 views | hype313 |
| This is the first Tory leadership debate I've watched on 05:14 - Aug 5 by bluelagos |
Allow me.
For a policy to be worth doing it has to pass a few tests. As well as the "ethical" questions, there are the practical ones, namely how would it work?
So to start charging people for non attendance, you will need to assess those needing charging, to bill them, to collect the money and to deal with non payments. All of that takes both time and money and wouod need people to do it.
So at a time when the Nhs is understaffed, you want it to focus on recruiting an army of accountants, book keepers and debt collectors to manage a system of payment colections.
Remember when you suggested we close down all shops (in lockdown) and enlist the army to deliver food supplies to every home in the UK? Remember how we showed the idea was simply impossible to do? This one is doable, but only at a huge diversion of focus and huge cost.
So for me, leave aside the ethical questions of introducing charges into a free Nhs, the proposals fail the practicality test. Like so much recent Tory policy it is red meat to some but nothing more and simply won't happen. |
Or do what they do in Australia and NZ and charge $10 for attending an appointment. |  |
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| What is rain? (n/t) on 09:24 - Aug 5 with 824 views | unstableblue |
| Or anything approaching sanity and/or basic human decency? (n/t) on 00:17 - Aug 5 by BlueBadger |
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| This is the first Tory leadership debate I've watched on 10:32 - Aug 5 with 786 views | GlasgowBlue |
| This is the first Tory leadership debate I've watched on 09:08 - Aug 5 by hype313 |
Or do what they do in Australia and NZ and charge $10 for attending an appointment. |
Closer to home they charge between 45 and 65 euro for GP appointments in Ireland. | |
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| This is the first Tory leadership debate I've watched on 11:00 - Aug 5 with 772 views | Lord_Lucan |
| This is the first Tory leadership debate I've watched on 10:32 - Aug 5 by GlasgowBlue |
Closer to home they charge between 45 and 65 euro for GP appointments in Ireland. |
That's crazy. Is it means tested?
There shouldn't be a charge, full stop - however we do have a problem re the cost of missed appointments - but as said before, the cost of obtaining the money would be more expensive than the fine.
Of course the elephant in the room is any charge concerning the NHS as it is political suicide, even though if we are honest, the NHS simply isn't working, in fact it's sh1t.
This isn't a dig at the rank and file but it's true. The NHS needs a complete overhaul. Most of their problems are procurement and waste. | |
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| This is the first Tory leadership debate I've watched on 11:14 - Aug 5 with 755 views | hype313 |
| This is the first Tory leadership debate I've watched on 11:00 - Aug 5 by Lord_Lucan |
That's crazy. Is it means tested?
There shouldn't be a charge, full stop - however we do have a problem re the cost of missed appointments - but as said before, the cost of obtaining the money would be more expensive than the fine.
Of course the elephant in the room is any charge concerning the NHS as it is political suicide, even though if we are honest, the NHS simply isn't working, in fact it's sh1t.
This isn't a dig at the rank and file but it's true. The NHS needs a complete overhaul. Most of their problems are procurement and waste. |
World beating NHS, so world beating that no other country has replicated the model. | |
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| This is the first Tory leadership debate I've watched on 11:49 - Aug 5 with 723 views | Lord_Lucan |
| This is the first Tory leadership debate I've watched on 11:14 - Aug 5 by hype313 |
World beating NHS, so world beating that no other country has replicated the model. |
The biggest political hot potato on the planet.
Although - it's become so sh1t that it may even be the time for our dear leaders to actually suggest massive reform.
My mate is a sparky who worked at the new Kings Lynn hospital and he spotted an invoice which was a fee for moving a light switch two meters. I can't honestly remember the figure but it was about £3k from memory.
If they bought their elastic bands from Amazon rather than a preferred supplier they would probably save hundreds of thousands £££££
Ditto MOD
Bonkers!!! | |
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| This is the first Tory leadership debate I've watched on 11:57 - Aug 5 with 714 views | hype313 |
| This is the first Tory leadership debate I've watched on 11:49 - Aug 5 by Lord_Lucan |
The biggest political hot potato on the planet.
Although - it's become so sh1t that it may even be the time for our dear leaders to actually suggest massive reform.
My mate is a sparky who worked at the new Kings Lynn hospital and he spotted an invoice which was a fee for moving a light switch two meters. I can't honestly remember the figure but it was about £3k from memory.
If they bought their elastic bands from Amazon rather than a preferred supplier they would probably save hundreds of thousands £££££
Ditto MOD
Bonkers!!! |
It's a sacred cow, no political party will touch it with a bargepole regardless of how it's performing as it will be a vote loser.
Clearly it can't function in it's current format and needs radical change, fresh ideas and a different approach, but too many people are emotionally invested in it.
And before I get the usual "you want a US based system, with colossal medical insurances" I don't, but surely there are other options than the broken US system? | |
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| This is the first Tory leadership debate I've watched on 12:12 - Aug 5 with 694 views | ringwoodblue |
When Kay Burley asked Truss what was the naughtiest thing she’d ever done, I was just hoping she would answer it something like ‘A wild orgy with five men’. At least I would have a tiny bit of respect for her then! |  |
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| This is the first Tory leadership debate I've watched on 12:21 - Aug 5 with 676 views | Lord_Lucan |
| This is the first Tory leadership debate I've watched on 11:57 - Aug 5 by hype313 |
It's a sacred cow, no political party will touch it with a bargepole regardless of how it's performing as it will be a vote loser.
Clearly it can't function in it's current format and needs radical change, fresh ideas and a different approach, but too many people are emotionally invested in it.
And before I get the usual "you want a US based system, with colossal medical insurances" I don't, but surely there are other options than the broken US system? |
I largely agree
Now I 100% realise that changing the whole NHS mechanism is way above my pay grade but I would love to have a bash at it.
I think we may have got to the stage where as it was a vote losing disaster it may have reversed and people would applaud someone who would be honest and say, - this is a big feck up and needs a complete overhaul. | |
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| This is the first Tory leadership debate I've watched on 12:38 - Aug 5 with 648 views | Beckets |
| This is the first Tory leadership debate I've watched on 12:12 - Aug 5 by ringwoodblue |
When Kay Burley asked Truss what was the naughtiest thing she’d ever done, I was just hoping she would answer it something like ‘A wild orgy with five men’. At least I would have a tiny bit of respect for her then! |
I assume she answered that it was when she cheated on her husband? |  | | |
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