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VAR 11:42 - Sep 4 with 5413 views

As Tony Pulis says:

"It's not VAR - let me get this correct. VAR just records the TV footage, it's the people who are running VAR.
It's those human beings who are making the decisions. It's the referees stuck in that office, wherever they are, making the decisions."

If they were poor referees on the pitch, like Lee Mason, for instance, they are just as poor on the VAR desk. Some of the decisions in the Newcastle, Leeds and Chelsea games were ludicrous.

At least Michael Oliver, who is a very good referee, had the bottle to ignore VAR and stick by his original decision in the Forest game.

VAR on 11:49 - Sep 4 with 3479 views

Wacko

Sounds like there needs to be VAR for VAR where referees in a second VAR studio watch the mistakes made by those in the first VAR studio

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VAR on 11:53 - Sep 4 with 3460 views

mylittletown

VAR on 11:49 - Sep 4 by Wacko
Sounds like there needs to be VAR for VAR where referees in a second VAR studio watch the mistakes made by those in the first VAR studio

They could perhaps have a VAR where people like Pulis get to be judges, rather than automatically sticking to referees?

-1

VAR on 12:03 - Sep 4 with 3405 views

poeticblue

VAR on 11:49 - Sep 4 by Wacko
Sounds like there needs to be VAR for VAR where referees in a second VAR studio watch the mistakes made by those in the first VAR studio

sounds a bit VAR-fetched to me.

VAR on 12:10 - Sep 4 with 3381 views

textbackup

VAR on 11:53 - Sep 4 by mylittletown
They could perhaps have a VAR where people like Pulis get to be judges, rather than automatically sticking to referees?

stick warnock in the room with the refs to have a say

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VAR on 12:10 - Sep 4 with 3384 views

Wacko

VAR on 11:53 - Sep 4 by mylittletown
They could perhaps have a VAR where people like Pulis get to be judges, rather than automatically sticking to referees?

Why pay the big bucks to ex-pros when you can just get an admin intern / Sunday league lino to do it instead??

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VAR on 12:23 - Sep 4 with 3322 views

mylittletown

VAR on 12:10 - Sep 4 by Wacko
Why pay the big bucks to ex-pros when you can just get an admin intern / Sunday league lino to do it instead??

Maybe up for a whoosh here, but these are often big money decisions, which need to be made by people with some authority.

Who do you think say David Moyes would trust more to get it right? Tony Pulis, for instance, or a referee like Lee Mason?

VAR on 12:23 - Sep 4 with 3319 views

NthQldITFC

The trouble is that they are forced into making a binary decision on a subjective incident. VAR should just be for goals and offsides.

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VAR on 12:26 - Sep 4 with 3302 views

Radlett_blue

VAR on 12:23 - Sep 4 by NthQldITFC
The trouble is that they are forced into making a binary decision on a subjective incident. VAR should just be for goals and offsides.

I dislike the way VAR is seemingly used to review every goal & then the likelihood is that the VAR man will spot some small foul by an attacker & a goal is disallowed. If they took VAR to extremes, I'm sure they could find a reason to give a penalty kick after almost every corner kick.

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VAR on 12:27 - Sep 4 with 3299 views

Plums

VAR on 12:23 - Sep 4 by mylittletown
Maybe up for a whoosh here, but these are often big money decisions, which need to be made by people with some authority. Who do you think say David Moyes would trust more to get it right? Tony Pulis, for instance, or a referee like Lee Mason?

An impartial, professional referee of course.

The trouble with the game is too many people giving opinions on TV don’t know the laws of the game and don’t referee them or have any intention to.

Nobody ever built a statue to a critic.

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VAR on 12:33 - Sep 4 with 3268 views

Chrisd

It’s exactly that. It’s still operated by humans, so the decisions are subjective and will never be agreed 100%. Nevertheless, I thought the West Ham decision yesterday was terrible. Mendy made a huge error and knew it and then played on the ‘slight’ contact by Bowen, which the officials fell for hook, line and sinker. I see Danny Murphy was suggesting ex pros should be more involved in VAR, ex pros were disagreeing on that incident at Stamford Bridge yesterday, so can’t see that’s going to make the slightest difference.

I wonder if managers in the EPL would prefer to go back to how it was before VAR, but keep the goal line technology?

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VAR on 12:36 - Sep 4 with 3248 views

mylittletown

VAR on 12:27 - Sep 4 by Plums
An impartial, professional referee of course. The trouble with the game is too many people giving opinions on TV don’t know the laws of the game and don’t referee them or have any intention to. Nobody ever built a statue to a critic.

It would appear that the impartial professional referees operating VAR often don't know how to interpret the laws, or are unable to understand what went on in a particular piece of action.

Have you watched some of the VAR decisions from yesterday? They were downright wrong, not really even debatable.

As for the direct answer to my question, I have absolutely no doubt who a professional football manager would rather have review a VAR decision.

VAR on 12:37 - Sep 4 with 3238 views

textbackup

VAR on 12:33 - Sep 4 by Chrisd

I watched it on MOTD earlier, with no sound, then back again 2/3 times.... for the life of me couldnt see what the foul was given for, was only when i put the sound on i realised.

terrible decision.

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VAR on 12:44 - Sep 4 with 3196 views

Chrisd

VAR on 12:37 - Sep 4 by textbackup
I watched it on MOTD earlier, with no sound, then back again 2/3 times.... for the life of me couldnt see what the foul was given for, was only when i put the sound on i realised. terrible decision.

Bowen does leave his leg there, but it isn’t sinister, the contact is minimal. I then compare that with Ederson where he came out bravely at Ramsey’s feet towards the end of the Villa game, his next thought was to gather the rebound. It’s an occupational hazard for keepers, but Mendy knew he’d made a huge error, hence the play acting. I can see why Moyes and Rice were angered by that decision. There were so many poor uses of VAR yesterday though.

PS- Love the thoroughness of watching MOTD so many times in various ways!!

[Post edited 4 Sep 2022 12:45]

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VAR on 13:11 - Sep 4 with 3110 views

Garv

It's all bad, the individuals and the system as well. All of it.

The very idea that you get a referee who has just made a decision being told to go over to the sideline and rewatch the incident on a very averagely sized TV, probably with a fair bit of glare if a sunny day, with thousands of neanderthals around him hurling abuse and applying added pressure, by other equally qualified referees sitting in an office with several massive screens with every possible angle and ability to rewind and pause etc, is frankly hilarious.

Bin VAR. It was a good experiment for a bit of banter, but we've all had a laugh now. It was always a bad idea, it's been bad and it'll continue ruining the game as most people know it.

Focus efforts on improving refereeing standards, while accepting that honest mistakes happen, and happen naturally, and stop using stop gap solutions that only takes the power away from the individual(s) who are in charge of the match.

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VAR on 13:26 - Sep 4 with 3038 views

ITFC_Forever

Just scrap VAR.

It started off as a shambles, has got worse and is showing no signs of improving.

Goal-line technology is fine, it decides on fact, but VAR is ruining the game.

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VAR on 13:28 - Sep 4 with 3016 views

Plums

VAR on 12:36 - Sep 4 by mylittletown

I don’t disagree. See my answer earlier in the thread, the decision in the WH game was shocking and VAR should be consigned to history as a failed project.

However, if we want to improve the game, we have to improve the discourse around referees and as a result, the knowledge of Joe Public on the laws.

As for managers trusting other managers, for me - only if they become referees. See cricket for the successful transition from players to umpires.

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VAR on 13:36 - Sep 4 with 2990 views

Bluespeed225

VAR on 12:33 - Sep 4 by Chrisd

If they go against wham, I'm happy with the current system.

VAR on 13:42 - Sep 4 with 2939 views

mylittletown

VAR on 13:28 - Sep 4 by Plums

I don't think that we should just give up on it.

DRS in cricket was reviled for the first few years, in fact India downright refused to use it, but it has been refined, and has transformed the game, entirely for the better. And cricket umpires are of a far higher standard, within the context of the game than football refs are.

The fact that football is that much faster ought to mean that a properly operated VAR would be even more beneficial.

VAR on 13:55 - Sep 4 with 2895 views

eireblue

VAR on 12:27 - Sep 4 by Plums
An impartial, professional referee of course. The trouble with the game is too many people giving opinions on TV don’t know the laws of the game and don’t referee them or have any intention to. Nobody ever built a statue to a critic.

VAR on 14:01 - Sep 4 with 2879 views

J2BLUE

VAR on 13:26 - Sep 4 by ITFC_Forever
Just scrap VAR. It started off as a shambles, has got worse and is showing no signs of improving. Goal-line technology is fine, it decides on fact, but VAR is ruining the game.

Agreed. Everton celebrate a derby winner then there's a long VAR delay. It really does suck the joy out of football. Soon half of the stadium won't be celebrating to wait for confirmation it's a goal

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VAR on 14:04 - Sep 4 with 2862 views

mylittletown

VAR on 14:01 - Sep 4 by J2BLUE
Agreed. Everton celebrate a derby winner then there's a long VAR delay. It really does suck the joy out of football. Soon half of the stadium won't be celebrating to wait for confirmation it's a goal

How about the minor detail that the Coady 'goal' was offside?

[Post edited 4 Sep 2022 14:07]

VAR on 14:08 - Sep 4 with 2831 views

J2BLUE

VAR on 14:04 - Sep 4 by mylittletown
How about the minor detail that the Coady 'goal' was offside? [Post edited 4 Sep 2022 14:07]

By about 3cm. We were told VAR was for clear and obvious errors. When you need to draw lines and use specialist software to create the angles etc it's obviously not clear and obvious. Get rid of VAR for offsides and bring it back when it's fully automated and instant.

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VAR on 14:18 - Sep 4 with 2752 views

mylittletown

VAR on 14:08 - Sep 4 by J2BLUE
By about 3cm. We were told VAR was for clear and obvious errors. When you need to draw lines and use specialist software to create the angles etc it's obviously not clear and obvious. Get rid of VAR for offsides and bring it back when it's fully automated and instant.

So when does an error become an error then?

TV etc will have the ability to do VAR like analysis on every goal. Referees credibility will be even more eroded if the game doesn't use the same technology.
That is exactly what was happening in cricket where the professional umpires are largely of a much higher standard than football referees.

VAR on 14:45 - Sep 4 with 2662 views

J2BLUE

VAR on 14:18 - Sep 4 by mylittletown
So when does an error become an error then? TV etc will have the ability to do VAR like analysis on every goal. Referees credibility will be even more eroded if the game doesn't use the same technology. That is exactly what was happening in cricket where the professional umpires are largely of a much higher standard than football referees.

Change the rules so there is nothing to talk about. Give the striker the advantage unless it's a clear offside. If we must keep VAR then they should get 30 seconds to decide. If there is no conclusive evidence it was an error, the goal stands

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VAR on 14:56 - Sep 4 with 2621 views

yesjohn99

Dump VAR, just go with goal line technology.

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