| Football violence 10:23 - Oct 18 with 12018 views | noggin |
I follow a terrace culture group on Fb, not because I ever got involved but because it has always fascinated me. Anyway, a recent thread was discussing Swansea going in the home end at Millwall. A Millwall supporter was saying he remembered it and that the only other group to do it was Ipswich. I presume that was the 78 game but does anyone know if that was intentional or a terrible mistake? Did Ipswich really take it to Millwall at the Old Den? |  |
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| Football violence on 14:06 - Oct 18 with 2096 views | thebooks |
| Football violence on 13:47 - Oct 18 by DJR |
Ipswich fans, given a relatively large Caribbean population for the time and quite a few black fans in the North Stand, weren't racist, as the contemporaneous account indicates.
It makes one proud to be a Town fan. |
That's a lovely account, and I don't doubt it. But I'm afraid some Town fans definitely made monkey noises if a black player got the ball.
If I'm misremembering that I'd be very glad. |  | | |
| Football violence on 14:09 - Oct 18 with 2074 views | DJR |
| Football violence on 14:06 - Oct 18 by MattinLondon |
Where was that extract taken from? Cheers. |
I'm not sure. If you are on Twitter, you could contact Suffolk Bhoy who put it up. I myself am not on Twitter. |  | | |
| Football violence on 14:12 - Oct 18 with 2065 views | DJR |
| Football violence on 14:06 - Oct 18 by thebooks |
That's a lovely account, and I don't doubt it. But I'm afraid some Town fans definitely made monkey noises if a black player got the ball.
If I'm misremembering that I'd be very glad. |
I spent most of the 70s in the North Stand and don't ever remember such chants. Perhaps I am misremembering too, or they took place in other bits of the ground. | | | |
| Football violence on 14:16 - Oct 18 with 2053 views | PJH |
| Football violence on 13:21 - Oct 18 by woodbridge_blue |
That's a pretty accurate summary. As I recall, the Special only arrived in New Cross Gate station at around 2.30 because it had to travel on goods lines all around North, West and South London.
A few police escorted us to the ground and as all the Millwall lunatics were already in the ground we marched through the largely empty streets full of bravado.
As soon as we got through the turnstiles for the end allocated to Ipswich supporters all hell broke loose with bricks and bottles being cascaded down on us. Me and my mates quickly split up and I didn't see them again until we met back on the train.
This was the opposite end to where most of the trouble broke out, so it definitely wasn't a case of us taking their end!!. I also saw kids no more than 12 or 13 years old looking for trouble and it was easily the most hostile atmosphere I have ever been involved in at a football match.
I too left at 3-1, it's the only time in over 40 years that I have missed a Town goal whilst attending a match.
On the train back we pulled down all the blinds and many windows got smashed.
I seem to recall that this was the last special train where alcohol was officially allowed. I know that trains to the semi-final and final were dry, although a significant number of supporters seemed to get around that! |
Two things I remember from the walk from the station to the ground, firstly a town supporter tried to pat a police dog and narrowly avoided having his hand taken off as we left the station.
Other thing is a car driving around with windows open and some bloke yelling that "They are waiting around the corner with meat cleavers," a nice welcome.
My mate and I just went into the first stand that we came to, as I remember it. [Post edited 18 Oct 2022 14:19]
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| Football violence on 14:36 - Oct 18 with 1998 views | WeWereZombies |
| Football violence on 13:22 - Oct 18 by witchdoctor |
no phalanx of fuzz in the late 60’s in the north..you went in there and chances were an away firm had already take their place in the middle… |
That's not how I remember it, a line of police four or five wide stood between the away support (placed net to the old West Stand and usually taking up half the North) and the home support (in the half next to the East Stand) from the back of the stand all the way down to the pitch. At half time in evening games you could see a thick surfacing of spit glistening on the back of the police coats when the lighting came on. And there was usually a chorus or two of 'Harry Roberts is our hero' directed at them. |  |
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| Football violence on 14:50 - Oct 18 with 1969 views | WeWereZombies |
| Football violence on 14:12 - Oct 18 by DJR |
I spent most of the 70s in the North Stand and don't ever remember such chants. Perhaps I am misremembering too, or they took place in other bits of the ground. |
I can remember the chant based on Keith West's 'Excerpt From A Teenage Opera' coming out of the North Stand. It's the one that goes ' Grocer Jack, Grocer Jack, is it true what mummy said...' enough already. [Post edited 18 Oct 2022 14:51]
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| Football violence on 15:20 - Oct 18 with 1904 views | PrideOfTheEast |
| Football violence on 14:09 - Oct 18 by DJR |
I'm not sure. If you are on Twitter, you could contact Suffolk Bhoy who put it up. I myself am not on Twitter. |
I'm sure I've read that before - it might be from Chris Brown's "Bovver" but could be wrong (v good book regardless). |  | | |
| Football violence on 15:21 - Oct 18 with 1902 views | DJR |
| Football violence on 14:50 - Oct 18 by WeWereZombies |
I can remember the chant based on Keith West's 'Excerpt From A Teenage Opera' coming out of the North Stand. It's the one that goes ' Grocer Jack, Grocer Jack, is it true what mummy said...' enough already. [Post edited 18 Oct 2022 14:51]
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My recollection of that song was that the punchline ended in "tw@t". But maybe we are talking about different periods. I didn't start standing in the North Stand until 1972 by which time the racist skinhead culture had largely died out. In any event, I have always been an anti-racist, so think I would have been aware of racist chants coming from our own fans. But as with anything, memory can play tricks.
EDIT: An internet search reveals that there was a version of that song where, say, "Rodney [Marsh] dear" replaced "Grocer Jack", and the punchline was queer. Now that does ring a bell, and is certainly nothing to be proud of. [Post edited 18 Oct 2022 15:35]
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| Football violence on 15:38 - Oct 18 with 1876 views | DJR |
| Football violence on 15:20 - Oct 18 by PrideOfTheEast |
I'm sure I've read that before - it might be from Chris Brown's "Bovver" but could be wrong (v good book regardless). |
That makes sense because the excerpt refers to Rovers, and Chris Brown was a Bristol Rovers fan. | | | |
| Factors was "Top Boy" in those days. (n/t) on 15:45 - Oct 18 with 1861 views | Bloots |
| Football violence on 13:19 - Oct 18 by Plums |
Football violence was an issue in the 1920s. If it didn't affect the game on the pitch, the referee didn't report it so records are limited but there are stories around of some pretty nasty incidents.
This seems a decent timeline going back centuries!
http://www.sirc.org/publik/fvhist.html |
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| Enduringly lovable, intelligent and thunderingly exquisite. |
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| Football violence on 16:02 - Oct 18 with 1807 views | floridablue |
| Football violence on 14:36 - Oct 18 by WeWereZombies |
That's not how I remember it, a line of police four or five wide stood between the away support (placed net to the old West Stand and usually taking up half the North) and the home support (in the half next to the East Stand) from the back of the stand all the way down to the pitch. At half time in evening games you could see a thick surfacing of spit glistening on the back of the police coats when the lighting came on. And there was usually a chorus or two of 'Harry Roberts is our hero' directed at them. |
My recollection of the late 60s North stand days is the same as witchdoctor posted. Certainly by the early 70s before the wire fence went up, the away fans were starting to be separated by a double line of officers although that was breached many a time! | | | |
| Football violence on 16:09 - Oct 18 with 1798 views | backwaywhen |
| Football violence on 14:36 - Oct 18 by WeWereZombies |
That's not how I remember it, a line of police four or five wide stood between the away support (placed net to the old West Stand and usually taking up half the North) and the home support (in the half next to the East Stand) from the back of the stand all the way down to the pitch. At half time in evening games you could see a thick surfacing of spit glistening on the back of the police coats when the lighting came on. And there was usually a chorus or two of 'Harry Roberts is our hero' directed at them. |
Harry Roberts is our king , as the chant went , early 70s saw the police double up in line , late 60s not so many and far easier to get to each other , specially under the North stand , as time went on the police got more involved , the the dreaded fences came into play . | | | |
| Football violence on 16:23 - Oct 18 with 1768 views | nodge_blue |
On a related subject (giving away my age here) - when I was a teenager in the 80s I remember the Chelsea fans walking in the Churchmans at the end of the game. Chanting Chelsea are here and all that and then walking across.
There was a bit of a crush as the less brave of us pushed our way towards the players tunnel.
I also saw their chairman having a wee in our urinals that day as well. I can only assume he must have sat with their fans. But not sure why he'd be in our urinals. What was his name - grey beard guy.
(Ken Bates?) [Post edited 18 Oct 2022 16:25]
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| Football violence on 16:25 - Oct 18 with 1761 views | DJR |
| Football violence on 16:09 - Oct 18 by backwaywhen |
Harry Roberts is our king , as the chant went , early 70s saw the police double up in line , late 60s not so many and far easier to get to each other , specially under the North stand , as time went on the police got more involved , the the dreaded fences came into play . |
I haven't heard the name Harry Robers since then, and being relatively young at the time, and not having the benefit of things like the internet, assumed he was an Ipswich fan who led our hooligans. [Post edited 18 Oct 2022 16:25]
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| Football violence on 17:05 - Oct 18 with 1707 views | DJR |
Following on from the racism theme, the worst games I ever attended were England games in the 1980s. I am not an England fan but often went to England games at Wembley after work with a friend, if only to see the international teams they played. At that time, England seemed to attract all the racists in the country, there appeared to be very few there who were not hooligans, and the atmosphere was very nasty and intimidating. Thankfully, things appear to be much better these days, although England still do seem to attract a small racist minority. | | | |
| Football violence on 17:12 - Oct 18 with 1682 views | bungaytractor |
Football violence is a mug,s game at the end of the day if you think about it | | | |
| Football violence on 18:47 - Oct 18 with 1566 views | longtimefan |
| Football violence on 14:12 - Oct 18 by DJR |
I spent most of the 70s in the North Stand and don't ever remember such chants. Perhaps I am misremembering too, or they took place in other bits of the ground. |
I was a Churchman’s regular from the early 70s onwards and sadly the monkey chants were often heard when the opposition had black players. Probably more prevalent in the late 70s, early 80s. | | | |
| Football violence on 18:47 - Oct 18 with 1566 views | WeWereZombies |
| Football violence on 15:21 - Oct 18 by DJR |
My recollection of that song was that the punchline ended in "tw@t". But maybe we are talking about different periods. I didn't start standing in the North Stand until 1972 by which time the racist skinhead culture had largely died out. In any event, I have always been an anti-racist, so think I would have been aware of racist chants coming from our own fans. But as with anything, memory can play tricks.
EDIT: An internet search reveals that there was a version of that song where, say, "Rodney [Marsh] dear" replaced "Grocer Jack", and the punchline was queer. Now that does ring a bell, and is certainly nothing to be proud of. [Post edited 18 Oct 2022 15:35]
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I remember the chant from the late 1960s - when the song had recently been in the charts and the final word was one that was seen as a slur back then but is not regarded so today, in fact players take the knee to support the message that their lives matter. Similarly, sections of the North Stand would chants 'Roots' at black players attempting to intimidate them, this was later in the 1970s when Alex Haley's powerful true life drama was on television. I know it worked on some players but it always struck me as the daftest idea because it seemed to me that one of the aims of the series was to acknowledge identity and affirm the overcoming of adversity, but there were racist elements in our support and around the town in general who would use history negatively as a threat of 'repatriation' towards anyone who wasn't white. | |
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| Football violence on 18:56 - Oct 18 with 1549 views | MattinLondon |
| Football violence on 17:12 - Oct 18 by bungaytractor |
Football violence is a mug,s game at the end of the day if you think about it |
Going to football with the intention of causing trouble is something only an utter cretin would do. Sometimes trouble just happens but those that activity look for it or cause it are a stain on football. |  | | |
| Football violence on 19:41 - Oct 18 with 1478 views | Radlett_blue |
| Football violence on 16:02 - Oct 18 by floridablue |
My recollection of the late 60s North stand days is the same as witchdoctor posted. Certainly by the early 70s before the wire fence went up, the away fans were starting to be separated by a double line of officers although that was breached many a time! |
Indeed, the line of policemen was the only thing that kept the North Stand from turning into a battlefield whenever we hosted the big London clubs, or the others with a substantial away following such as Man U & Liverpool. |  |
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| Football violence on 19:59 - Oct 18 with 1439 views | Pendejo |
| Football violence on 14:06 - Oct 18 by thebooks |
That's a lovely account, and I don't doubt it. But I'm afraid some Town fans definitely made monkey noises if a black player got the ball.
If I'm misremembering that I'd be very glad. |
The only time I can ever remember anything remotely racist from Town fans was toward a Blackburn player in late 80s.
I have never heard monkey chants from Town fans, nuts that's not to say it never happened.. |  |
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| Football violence on 20:11 - Oct 18 with 1418 views | blueprint |
| Football violence on 16:23 - Oct 18 by nodge_blue |
On a related subject (giving away my age here) - when I was a teenager in the 80s I remember the Chelsea fans walking in the Churchmans at the end of the game. Chanting Chelsea are here and all that and then walking across.
There was a bit of a crush as the less brave of us pushed our way towards the players tunnel.
I also saw their chairman having a wee in our urinals that day as well. I can only assume he must have sat with their fans. But not sure why he'd be in our urinals. What was his name - grey beard guy.
(Ken Bates?) [Post edited 18 Oct 2022 16:25]
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I remember that . They entered from the bit under the cobbold by the open terracing in the corner. |  | | |
| Football violence on 20:15 - Oct 18 with 1409 views | bluebudgie |
| Football violence on 18:47 - Oct 18 by WeWereZombies |
I remember the chant from the late 1960s - when the song had recently been in the charts and the final word was one that was seen as a slur back then but is not regarded so today, in fact players take the knee to support the message that their lives matter. Similarly, sections of the North Stand would chants 'Roots' at black players attempting to intimidate them, this was later in the 1970s when Alex Haley's powerful true life drama was on television. I know it worked on some players but it always struck me as the daftest idea because it seemed to me that one of the aims of the series was to acknowledge identity and affirm the overcoming of adversity, but there were racist elements in our support and around the town in general who would use history negatively as a threat of 'repatriation' towards anyone who wasn't white. |
I was in the North stand most of the 70s and I never heard the chants of Roots . The programme wasn't shown on UK TV until late 1978 so couldn't have happened, your recollections are wrong. Ipswich Town had a large black following(check the footage of Town fans at the 1978 Cup final!) and some I attended matches with after a drink in the Falcon, if there had been any racial chants there would have been a riot as skin colour did not matter as we were all Town fans and we DID chant" Ipswich lives in racial harmony" many times to opposing racist fans, some of the worst, by the way, was from Norwich and they would often be singing racial chants and throwing National Front leaflets over the fence! So I'm very proud to say that Ipswich Town fans were in my opinion the least racial fans in the country. [Post edited 18 Oct 2022 20:32]
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| Football violence on 20:22 - Oct 18 with 1378 views | leitrimblue |
| Football violence on 13:02 - Oct 18 by blueasfook |
Yeah I went toe to toe with a few of their top boys that day.
Not bad for an 8 year old |
I was 7, think there top boys still talk about that 7 year old windmilling into um |  | | |
| Football violence on 20:31 - Oct 18 with 1355 views | DJR |
| Football violence on 20:15 - Oct 18 by bluebudgie |
I was in the North stand most of the 70s and I never heard the chants of Roots . The programme wasn't shown on UK TV until late 1978 so couldn't have happened, your recollections are wrong. Ipswich Town had a large black following(check the footage of Town fans at the 1978 Cup final!) and some I attended matches with after a drink in the Falcon, if there had been any racial chants there would have been a riot as skin colour did not matter as we were all Town fans and we DID chant" Ipswich lives in racial harmony" many times to opposing racist fans, some of the worst, by the way, was from Norwich and they would often be singing racial chants and throwing National Front leaflets over the fence! So I'm very proud to say that Ipswich Town fans were in my opinion the least racial fans in the country. [Post edited 18 Oct 2022 20:32]
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The multi-racial nature of our fans in the North Stand was in sharp contrast to the fans of visiting teams who were white to a man, so I wholeheartedly agree with what you say in your last sentence. | | | |
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