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I've posted on here about 219 times over the past 18-24 months about wanting to relocate from Suffolk, and circumstances have finally levelled out and got to the point where I can finally really look towards taking the step.
My reasons for wanting to leave both Suffolk and England are numerous, and I won't bore you with them all. But the main ones include wanting to minimise my chances of coming across ignorant Brexit-voting gammon heads, as well as finding some of the main facets of English culture (such as going to the pub, or watching/talking about Love Island) incredibly painful, trashy and boring. I'm also just bored in general, and need a fresh start somewhere new, where I can feel invigorated and re-energised.
I could work towards moving to Canada as a physiotherapist, although that would take another 12-18 months, and would require first completing a Master's degree, plus regular French lessons, to get a higher number of immigration points.
I've been looking into it seriously and have applied for some MSc courses. I've been to Canada before (AB and BC; the main city I 'know' being Vancouver), and I think it would be a great way of life.
The problem though is that I love Europe too much. I love European culture, European history, European architecture, as well as simply being close to Europe. No where in Canada (apart from Quebec City - which you may as well forget if you aren't fluent in French) can give you that. Whilst being a great city, on a deeper level I find somewhere like Vancouver soulless and lacking the things that I mention.
So I keep coming back to Edinburgh, despite having never been there. It looks different from anywhere in England, and it looks the most 'European-y' city in the UK. I also believe it has more of an international population, which naturally means you encounter more people with different views of the world.
If I could, though, I'd leave the UK altogether, and go to Europe (that's obviously much more difficult now, and I'm no longer seriously making an effort to make that happen, after having explored many options which led nowhere). The future of the UK just looks grim to me. From its politics, to its economic outlook (poorer than Poland by 2030), to its migrant-hating media and large swathes of the population who lap it all up.
So if I'm to stay here, I need to somehow avoid those negatives as much as possible.
The fact that the majority of Scotland voted to remain in the EU at least gives me some hope that people up there are a bit different. Isn't there also a slightly increased chance of getting back in the EU through an independent Scotland?
What I mainly want to know is, will I find the things that I love, whilst minimising contact with/impact of the things that are frustrating me so much, in Edinburgh?
If not, then I may as well go to Canada. But I don't want to feel forced out of the UK if there's actually a way to make it work and to be happy here.
Bit of a rambley post but having some more objective viewpoints (or subjective ones based on other peoples' experiences) would provide valuable information to help with making a decision.
Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 08:51 - Jul 25 by DJR
Unless you have friends there, work in a sociable occupation or are fairly outgoing, London can be a bit isolating.
[Post edited 25 Jul 2023 8:55]
but that's true of all cities surely. the op is clearly finding his current setting socially stultifying. moving to any city is a chance to reinvent yourself - but it's still a lot of work and you need to take the initiative.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
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Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 09:06 - Jul 25 with 1863 views
Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 20:34 - Jul 24 by WeWereZombies
I quite like Dundee although I once had a very spikey altercation with a van driver who nearly drove into my car on the road out to Montrose. It was my fault...of course it was.
Good story about walking the Tay Bridge and I like that they have a brass plaque with some of McGonagall's verse on the Tay Bridge disaster along the walkway there now:
"Beautiful railway bridge of the Silvery Tay! "With your numerous arches and pillars in so grand array "And your central girders, which seem to the eye "To be almost towering to the sky."
A peculiar fact about the 1879 Tay Bridge disaster is that the engine and tender were recovered, repaired and put back into service. They didn’t muck about, those Victorians.
The Tay bridge designer, a chap called Thomas Bouch, died a year after the disaster with his reputation in ruins. His design was flawed and the bridge built on the cheap.
As for Canada, it’s a wonderful country. I’ve been a fair few times and would liked to have tried living there. That and America are the only countries I could ever have left the U.K. for. Despite the scum running it and all the problems, there are some beautiful places here (Suffolk is one of them) and sad though it sounds, I love the seasons. I also love London - in my view the greatest city on earth.
[Post edited 25 Jul 2023 9:08]
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Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 09:07 - Jul 25 with 1859 views
Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 09:06 - Jul 25 by Churchman
A peculiar fact about the 1879 Tay Bridge disaster is that the engine and tender were recovered, repaired and put back into service. They didn’t muck about, those Victorians.
The Tay bridge designer, a chap called Thomas Bouch, died a year after the disaster with his reputation in ruins. His design was flawed and the bridge built on the cheap.
As for Canada, it’s a wonderful country. I’ve been a fair few times and would liked to have tried living there. That and America are the only countries I could ever have left the U.K. for. Despite the scum running it and all the problems, there are some beautiful places here (Suffolk is one of them) and sad though it sounds, I love the seasons. I also love London - in my view the greatest city on earth.
[Post edited 25 Jul 2023 9:08]
Yep, I've lived in Brisbane, Sydney and spent 10 months in Calgary.
All very nice, and have vastly different things to offer, but Suffolk, for me is untouchable.
Close to PR, close to London, close to continental Europe.
I'd suggest if looking to move due to the reasons being ' wanting to minimise my chances of coming across ignorant Brexit-voting gammon heads' than I'd suggest a serious re-think. All these places have a plethora of knuckleheads, there is nowhere on earth that offers the land of milk and honey.
Also, Australia is too hot and will be uninhabitable in years to come, Canada is picturesque, but outrageously cold.
Edinburgh, nice, but not in a month of Sundays would I move there.
Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 09:04 - Jul 25 by Keno
Can't you split the difference and go to Iceland?
Not everyone wants to live in the Tower Ramparts Shopping Centre, Keno. I mean what are the possibilities like of passing Wes Burns whilst holding some semi-skimmed milk there ?
Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 09:17 - Jul 25 by WeWereZombies
Not everyone wants to live in the Tower Ramparts Shopping Centre, Keno. I mean what are the possibilities like of passing Wes Burns whilst holding some semi-skimmed milk there ?
I would have thought someone like Wes would get his supplies somewhere like Waitrose, I mean that essential quinoa really is ........ essential
Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 08:57 - Jul 25 by lowhouseblue
ok so vancouver definitely competes with london in terms of international diversity. that's very good. i was just suggesting there might be easier options. you can reinvent yourself socially without moving to vancouver.
The OP has been to Canada and loves it. It is a very different country to the UK. Younger, more optimistic, and, critically important, very welcoming to immigrants.
If I was going to emigrate somewhere, that is the one thing I would be most concerned about.
Compare it with two new stories from this week: Suella Braverman being found to have acted illegally by banning asylum seekers from receiving a £3 payment to help with buying healthy food for children. Or the story about a Parish Council at war, which basically comes down to people who have only been in the village 20 years not being accepted.
Those two stories illustrate some of the nastiness and fear that runs through much of the English national psyche, which found their Gerald Scarfe like expression in Brexit. What does Brexit mean? Leaving a political union, withdrawing from the world's largest free trade area, putting up barriers to freedom of movement.
Once your eyes are opened to it, and once you have visited countries where the opposite is the case, you can't unsee it.
A third news story from this week. But first a question. Which is the best Army in the world? It's the British Army, isn't it? It may not be the largest, but it's the best. Best trained. Best soldiers. We have always been told that, and we believe it.
Well yesterday a story ran about a US General telling our Defence Secretary that the British Army can no longer be considered to be in the top league worldwide.
You, and a couple of others on this thread, have moved to diagnosing that the problem is with the OP, and that they need to socially reinvent themselves.
No, it's not that. Read the OP. Having seen that there are different ways for societies to organise themselves and for countries to define themselves, the OP doesn't want to be part of a country where refugees are put in floating prisons or flown to Rwanda, where 65% of old people* ruined prospects for the young, where and where people who have never been to a city just know that it can't be as diverse as London. And where if, as a young professional, you see all that and think "I don't like this", the response that will come back is: you have the problem, you need to reinvent yourself.
*God bless Ryorry and the generous hearted 35% who didn't!
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Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 09:59 - Jul 25 with 1717 views
Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 09:41 - Jul 25 by ArnoldMoorhen
The OP has been to Canada and loves it. It is a very different country to the UK. Younger, more optimistic, and, critically important, very welcoming to immigrants.
If I was going to emigrate somewhere, that is the one thing I would be most concerned about.
Compare it with two new stories from this week: Suella Braverman being found to have acted illegally by banning asylum seekers from receiving a £3 payment to help with buying healthy food for children. Or the story about a Parish Council at war, which basically comes down to people who have only been in the village 20 years not being accepted.
Those two stories illustrate some of the nastiness and fear that runs through much of the English national psyche, which found their Gerald Scarfe like expression in Brexit. What does Brexit mean? Leaving a political union, withdrawing from the world's largest free trade area, putting up barriers to freedom of movement.
Once your eyes are opened to it, and once you have visited countries where the opposite is the case, you can't unsee it.
A third news story from this week. But first a question. Which is the best Army in the world? It's the British Army, isn't it? It may not be the largest, but it's the best. Best trained. Best soldiers. We have always been told that, and we believe it.
Well yesterday a story ran about a US General telling our Defence Secretary that the British Army can no longer be considered to be in the top league worldwide.
You, and a couple of others on this thread, have moved to diagnosing that the problem is with the OP, and that they need to socially reinvent themselves.
No, it's not that. Read the OP. Having seen that there are different ways for societies to organise themselves and for countries to define themselves, the OP doesn't want to be part of a country where refugees are put in floating prisons or flown to Rwanda, where 65% of old people* ruined prospects for the young, where and where people who have never been to a city just know that it can't be as diverse as London. And where if, as a young professional, you see all that and think "I don't like this", the response that will come back is: you have the problem, you need to reinvent yourself.
*God bless Ryorry and the generous hearted 35% who didn't!
i read the op as saying he wants to meet new and nicer people. that is possible in the uk - london is diverse, international, and tolerant. demographically london and vancouver are comparable. london (and much of the uk) is welcoming to immigrants and compares to pretty much anywhere in terms of its immigrant population. every country has the sorts of political nastiness you describe - much of europe and the us has it much worse than in the uk.
but your post illustrates the problem with discussing stuff online. intentionally or not it reads as aggressive, accusatory, personalised and generalises quite a specific discussion to fit some pre-existing agenda. it makes discussion unpleasant and it's hard to imagine it's not intended to inflame a thread and push it on to the usual disputes. so i'll leave you there.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
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Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 10:09 - Jul 25 with 1685 views
Based on your stated needs, I would recommend Ireland. Somewhere relatively close to Dublin. Apologies if you’ve already been and know this but is really does feel European too, as well as being fairly easy to access the Continent. You’ll have the added bonus of being able to visit FPR without significant planning, or financial/time expense. Having said that, I personally adopt the tactic of isolating myself from the UK culture/politics as much as I can and seek contentment in the remaining beautiful areas like Waldringfield, Bawdsey and Hollesey at quite times of the week. I’m on the border of North Essex/South Suffolk and wouldn’t swap that for anywhere else in England.
Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 09:59 - Jul 25 by lowhouseblue
i read the op as saying he wants to meet new and nicer people. that is possible in the uk - london is diverse, international, and tolerant. demographically london and vancouver are comparable. london (and much of the uk) is welcoming to immigrants and compares to pretty much anywhere in terms of its immigrant population. every country has the sorts of political nastiness you describe - much of europe and the us has it much worse than in the uk.
but your post illustrates the problem with discussing stuff online. intentionally or not it reads as aggressive, accusatory, personalised and generalises quite a specific discussion to fit some pre-existing agenda. it makes discussion unpleasant and it's hard to imagine it's not intended to inflame a thread and push it on to the usual disputes. so i'll leave you there.
If that is how you read it, I apologise.
It turned into a bit of a rant, and I can see that it singles you out. Sorry.
Several people in the thread have basically said "The problems you identify in the UK aren't that bad."
And "You just need to reinvent yourself, and can do that in England."
The problems are that bad, and they have involved many (but not all) older (than the OP) voters systematically destroying life chances and opportunities for the OP's generation. Those who voted for Brexit, and those who have voted for the Tories, including and since the Austerity Coalition Government, need to own that, and not blame the young who can't see a positive way forward as a result.
It's a big world out there, and some countries are a lot more committed to building progressive, forward-looking, inclusive societies than the UK. I would encourage people with something to offer, including the OP, to seize the opportunity.
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Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 10:27 - Jul 25 with 1615 views
Good post but an uppie especially for the first use I can recall of flâneur on TWTD (work that into one of your match reports Phil, I know difficult now that Jonathan Douglas is no longer on the pitch.) Maybe the OP needs to consider somewhere with an excellent promenade, like Nice...or Felixstowe.
Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 10:14 - Jul 25 by ArnoldMoorhen
If that is how you read it, I apologise.
It turned into a bit of a rant, and I can see that it singles you out. Sorry.
Several people in the thread have basically said "The problems you identify in the UK aren't that bad."
And "You just need to reinvent yourself, and can do that in England."
The problems are that bad, and they have involved many (but not all) older (than the OP) voters systematically destroying life chances and opportunities for the OP's generation. Those who voted for Brexit, and those who have voted for the Tories, including and since the Austerity Coalition Government, need to own that, and not blame the young who can't see a positive way forward as a result.
It's a big world out there, and some countries are a lot more committed to building progressive, forward-looking, inclusive societies than the UK. I would encourage people with something to offer, including the OP, to seize the opportunity.
no problem, thanks.
I don't dispute the cultural / political issues in the uk at present. but, i don't think they are at all different from the rest of europe (and i do include the scandis) since all european countries have seen a rise of the populist right and increasingly embedded and nasty xenophobia in a significant minority of the population. perhaps canada / new zealand are the exceptions but the uk is in no way unusual.
also if you read the 3rd para in the op where he lists what he dislikes in where he currently lives - bexit voting gammon heads and talking about love island etc - i live in the uk and i experience absolutely none of that. it describes a backward attitude which undoubtedly exists but is absolutely not typical of my experience. lots of uk cities (not just london) - cambridge for example - are cosmopolitan and international. in my experience that's more typical of the uk. i've never spoken to anyone about love island. the op clearly wants to avoid such trash (and racists and brexiteers and knuckleheads) and it's really easy to do that in the uk. it's not just cities - i spend lots of time in deepest darkest rural suffolk and the op's description doesn't match my experience at all. such things are much more typical of life online than they are of most people and most places here.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 10:27 - Jul 25 by WeWereZombies
Good post but an uppie especially for the first use I can recall of flâneur on TWTD (work that into one of your match reports Phil, I know difficult now that Jonathan Douglas is no longer on the pitch.) Maybe the OP needs to consider somewhere with an excellent promenade, like Nice...or Felixstowe.
[Redacted]
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Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 10:51 - Jul 25 with 1559 views
One thing no one has mentioned on this thread is the fact, at least in my case, that there tends to be a greater sense of detachment and freedom, and lack of feeling judged, when abroad, something I think Graham Greene captured in his novels and in his own life when he lived in a modest apartment in Antibes.
Of course, maybe this is less so in English-speaking countries but I do regard the feeling as slightly meditational and postive.
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Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 12:03 - Jul 25 with 1460 views
I could be totally wrong here but to me, it sounds like you’re leaving because Britain is broken and not because you are totally sold on a new life in Canada or Edinburgh. You mention how much you’ll miss Europe and trust me, those feelings will never go away.
I’ve lived in Canada for nearly 5 years and became a citizen last month. It’s been a huge adjustment living here (Toronto) and there’s been an equal number of ups and downs but I wouldn’t have survived the downs if I hadn’t been fully committed to making a life here. And you need to make sure it’s in your heart, as well as your head when you make such a big move.
Like you, I felt like britain was broken and applied to come to Canada shortly after Brexit. Yes, I miss Europe and it’s culture very much but for me, the most important thing I feel you need to appreciate is that when you make a move like this, you are moving to that country for its lifestyle and culture.
You cannot hope/expect to see and have the things you’ve grown up with. You have to embrace and engage with the things hat country offers you. If you are looking back at what you had in the past, you won’t move forward with what the future offers you.
Politics can still suck here too. Toronto and Vancouver are about to drop out of the top ten places to live in the world as property has become unaffordable and there’s mass construction happening everywhere. Gun culture is slowly rising in Toronto and the homeless desperately need a more considerate support network.
On a positive note, Canada is hugely welcoming of immigrants and you’ll love how diverse and friendly the people are here.
As someone who has made the move, I’d say you need to come with a fully committed mind to make it work. If you’re harbouring a desire for what you have always known and loved, it’ll be incredibly challenging.
Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 10:27 - Jul 25 by WeWereZombies
Good post but an uppie especially for the first use I can recall of flâneur on TWTD (work that into one of your match reports Phil, I know difficult now that Jonathan Douglas is no longer on the pitch.) Maybe the OP needs to consider somewhere with an excellent promenade, like Nice...or Felixstowe.
If it's Felixstowe then it's not La Mer, it's La Merde....
You are the obsolete SRN4 to my Fairey Rotodyne....
You need to take a longer look at immigration laws. While it is a lot easier than moving to the US, it’s not that simple to just move to Canada with an extra qualification and speaking a bit of French.
Montreal or Quebec is going to give you a much greater European feel than Suffolk.
You say you like being in and close to Europe. I assume you’ve done that your entire life. Look at what living in North America gives you in regards opportunity for visiting new countries, even if slightly longer flights.
The notion that going to Europe post Brexit is impossible and Canada much easier simply isn’t correct either. Even before we left Europe Brits left for countries with much tougher immigration laws moving to Europe (outside of Spain). America and Australia being obvious examples. Too lazy to learn the lingo.
Also just re-read your post. With respect it sounds like you’re not taking this all that seriously if you’ve never even been to Edinburgh and it’s a 50/50 chance. Jump on Easyjet or the train and spend 5 day there! It’s just up the road in comparison to Canada.
[Post edited 25 Jul 2023 13:23]
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Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 13:29 - Jul 25 with 1393 views
Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 12:03 - Jul 25 by SE1blue
I could be totally wrong here but to me, it sounds like you’re leaving because Britain is broken and not because you are totally sold on a new life in Canada or Edinburgh. You mention how much you’ll miss Europe and trust me, those feelings will never go away.
I’ve lived in Canada for nearly 5 years and became a citizen last month. It’s been a huge adjustment living here (Toronto) and there’s been an equal number of ups and downs but I wouldn’t have survived the downs if I hadn’t been fully committed to making a life here. And you need to make sure it’s in your heart, as well as your head when you make such a big move.
Like you, I felt like britain was broken and applied to come to Canada shortly after Brexit. Yes, I miss Europe and it’s culture very much but for me, the most important thing I feel you need to appreciate is that when you make a move like this, you are moving to that country for its lifestyle and culture.
You cannot hope/expect to see and have the things you’ve grown up with. You have to embrace and engage with the things hat country offers you. If you are looking back at what you had in the past, you won’t move forward with what the future offers you.
Politics can still suck here too. Toronto and Vancouver are about to drop out of the top ten places to live in the world as property has become unaffordable and there’s mass construction happening everywhere. Gun culture is slowly rising in Toronto and the homeless desperately need a more considerate support network.
On a positive note, Canada is hugely welcoming of immigrants and you’ll love how diverse and friendly the people are here.
As someone who has made the move, I’d say you need to come with a fully committed mind to make it work. If you’re harbouring a desire for what you have always known and loved, it’ll be incredibly challenging.
All good points, I was really surprised how Toronto had changed when I visited last year.
House prices in the satellite areas are also crazy and Canada doesnt have as good a public transport network as here either. Most people I spoke to from Vancouver are moving out to Abbortsford or Langley rather than Coquitlam, Burnaby or Richmond.
I would also add the fact that annual leave isnt anywehre near as good as it is in the UK. Two or three weeks tops seems to be the norm. They have long weekends most months but it really does limit your ability to visit home and also have holidays abroad (Palm Springs, Mexico seem to be popular for Canucks).
As for the politics, my wife's family are mostly oil and gas people from Alberta who tend to skew right wing. Even in BC recently I met a lot of people who are quite happy to express right wing views that would make many Brexiters blush. And NOBODY likes Trudeau. The cities are considerate enough to ensure that the homless and mentally ill addicts that roam the streets dont die, but not leftie enough to actually get the help they need to break the cycle. Downtown East in Vancouver is hellish.
That said, there's something very special about a beautiful city with a mountainous backdrop and Vancouver absolutely smashes it. It's stunning.
Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 09:41 - Jul 25 by ArnoldMoorhen
The OP has been to Canada and loves it. It is a very different country to the UK. Younger, more optimistic, and, critically important, very welcoming to immigrants.
If I was going to emigrate somewhere, that is the one thing I would be most concerned about.
Compare it with two new stories from this week: Suella Braverman being found to have acted illegally by banning asylum seekers from receiving a £3 payment to help with buying healthy food for children. Or the story about a Parish Council at war, which basically comes down to people who have only been in the village 20 years not being accepted.
Those two stories illustrate some of the nastiness and fear that runs through much of the English national psyche, which found their Gerald Scarfe like expression in Brexit. What does Brexit mean? Leaving a political union, withdrawing from the world's largest free trade area, putting up barriers to freedom of movement.
Once your eyes are opened to it, and once you have visited countries where the opposite is the case, you can't unsee it.
A third news story from this week. But first a question. Which is the best Army in the world? It's the British Army, isn't it? It may not be the largest, but it's the best. Best trained. Best soldiers. We have always been told that, and we believe it.
Well yesterday a story ran about a US General telling our Defence Secretary that the British Army can no longer be considered to be in the top league worldwide.
You, and a couple of others on this thread, have moved to diagnosing that the problem is with the OP, and that they need to socially reinvent themselves.
No, it's not that. Read the OP. Having seen that there are different ways for societies to organise themselves and for countries to define themselves, the OP doesn't want to be part of a country where refugees are put in floating prisons or flown to Rwanda, where 65% of old people* ruined prospects for the young, where and where people who have never been to a city just know that it can't be as diverse as London. And where if, as a young professional, you see all that and think "I don't like this", the response that will come back is: you have the problem, you need to reinvent yourself.
*God bless Ryorry and the generous hearted 35% who didn't!
God you really went off there on your own little tangent inside the OPs head didn’t you but you were spouting your views.
The notion that Britain is completely full of bigotry and hatred is utter crap unless it’s all changed in ten years. London was and I’m fairly convinced still is, a model alpha city of full of tolerance and diversity. Whereas I’ve seen full blown racism in other European countries (Poland and Spain come to mind) that I’d never see in England in 25 years of living there.
Canada has something like 35-40M people and ask how many times you could fit the British isles in it. Not exactly horses for courses in terms of immigration. I left England because of the crap weather on small island, the opportunity to move around and further my career in major cities half the price of London and just a generally better lifestyle (for me at least).
People have their own reasons and many of them are deeply personal. Stop talking for someone else because of your hatred of the government.
[Post edited 25 Jul 2023 13:54]
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Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 13:51 - Jul 25 with 1369 views
Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 13:29 - Jul 25 by bluelou
All good points, I was really surprised how Toronto had changed when I visited last year.
House prices in the satellite areas are also crazy and Canada doesnt have as good a public transport network as here either. Most people I spoke to from Vancouver are moving out to Abbortsford or Langley rather than Coquitlam, Burnaby or Richmond.
I would also add the fact that annual leave isnt anywehre near as good as it is in the UK. Two or three weeks tops seems to be the norm. They have long weekends most months but it really does limit your ability to visit home and also have holidays abroad (Palm Springs, Mexico seem to be popular for Canucks).
As for the politics, my wife's family are mostly oil and gas people from Alberta who tend to skew right wing. Even in BC recently I met a lot of people who are quite happy to express right wing views that would make many Brexiters blush. And NOBODY likes Trudeau. The cities are considerate enough to ensure that the homless and mentally ill addicts that roam the streets dont die, but not leftie enough to actually get the help they need to break the cycle. Downtown East in Vancouver is hellish.
That said, there's something very special about a beautiful city with a mountainous backdrop and Vancouver absolutely smashes it. It's stunning.
Vancouver has a huge drug problem in particular with Fentanyl. Local government have been trying all kinds of things but doesn’t seem to be working.
Toronto is pricey now, was there at the start of the month for work and it’s changed a lot, I would agree with that. Decent city though.
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