| Cricket's looking like carnage 12:24 - Jul 27 with 5856 views | redrickstuhaart |
Should be 5 down. |  | | |  |
| Cricket's looking like carnage on 10:43 - Jul 28 with 713 views | Herbivore |
| Cricket's looking like carnage on 10:27 - Jul 28 by Chrisd |
It’s ego. The fact the Aussies dropped 5 chances and they still kept throwing their wickets away, utterly brainless. 283 is well below par at The Oval for a 1st innings total. They just don’t adapt. |
The conditions yesterday was very tricky for batting, you can't say that the score was low purely on the basis that in the past the Oval has been a high scoring ground. The ball was nipping around off the pitch and there was some swing as well. That's why Australia were beating the edge consistently and created numerous chances. We got out to some loose shots, sure, but we've decided to play aggressive cricket and that's going to happen sometimes.
In scoreboard terms, Australia are no better off than we were (we were 61 for no loss, they are 61-1 at stumps) despite playing far more cautiously. When conditions are tough for batting at some point you are going to get a very good ball and get out. You can either not play shots and the scoreboard stays frozen or you can try and keep things moving. The way we were playing 2 years ago they'd have had us out for under 200 yesterday easily.
So basically I don't agree that our batting is about 'ego', it's about how we've chosen to play, which is to be aggressive and keep the scoreboard and the game moving. Those tactics have transformed our fortunes and kept us more than competitive against the best test side in the world. |  |
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| Cricket's looking like carnage on 10:45 - Jul 28 with 711 views | Chrisd |
| Cricket's looking like carnage on 10:37 - Jul 28 by Herbivore |
So if you randomly exclude some of Crawley's runs then he's no longer the leading run scorer? Thanks for that insight. |
Let’s ignore the fact that he’s scored 189 in one innings to help make him a leading run scorer. Before that score, he’d scored 1 half century in the series. So, thanks for your insight. | |
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| Cricket's looking like carnage on 10:57 - Jul 28 with 701 views | Herbivore |
| Cricket's looking like carnage on 10:45 - Jul 28 by Chrisd |
Let’s ignore the fact that he’s scored 189 in one innings to help make him a leading run scorer. Before that score, he’d scored 1 half century in the series. So, thanks for your insight. |
Sure, let's just ignore some of his runs when looking at leading run scorers. Are we going to do the same with the other batsman as well? Shall we ignore Khawaja's 141 from the first test, for example? Or Stokes' 155 at Lords? All of the leading run scorers in this series are so high up because they've scored a big century at some point. [Post edited 28 Jul 2023 10:57]
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| Cricket's looking like carnage on 10:58 - Jul 28 with 700 views | Chrisd |
| Cricket's looking like carnage on 10:43 - Jul 28 by Herbivore |
The conditions yesterday was very tricky for batting, you can't say that the score was low purely on the basis that in the past the Oval has been a high scoring ground. The ball was nipping around off the pitch and there was some swing as well. That's why Australia were beating the edge consistently and created numerous chances. We got out to some loose shots, sure, but we've decided to play aggressive cricket and that's going to happen sometimes.
In scoreboard terms, Australia are no better off than we were (we were 61 for no loss, they are 61-1 at stumps) despite playing far more cautiously. When conditions are tough for batting at some point you are going to get a very good ball and get out. You can either not play shots and the scoreboard stays frozen or you can try and keep things moving. The way we were playing 2 years ago they'd have had us out for under 200 yesterday easily.
So basically I don't agree that our batting is about 'ego', it's about how we've chosen to play, which is to be aggressive and keep the scoreboard and the game moving. Those tactics have transformed our fortunes and kept us more than competitive against the best test side in the world. |
It’s not about not playing shots, it’s about adapting. Scoring off the bad balls and picking up the ones and twos whilst rotating the strike are important especially in conditions like yesterday. We don’t do that, we deal in boundaries, a stand and deliver style - That’s ego. Clever batsmen, even with the testing conditions will look to rotate the strike and keep the bowlers honest, Root is normally very good at this and probably the only one we have. In the main, our batsmen just keep going out swinging, even if they nicked off to a good a ball, that’s clueless. This series has helped to highlight the limitations of Bazball for me at crucial times we’ve come up short. The Indian series will also show that we need to be more versatile in the way we approach our batting by build winning totals in testing conditions.Instead of crash, bang, wallop regardless of the pitch, the quality of the bowling attack and the overhead weather conditions. | |
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| Cricket's looking like carnage on 11:00 - Jul 28 with 683 views | Chrisd |
| Cricket's looking like carnage on 10:57 - Jul 28 by Herbivore |
Sure, let's just ignore some of his runs when looking at leading run scorers. Are we going to do the same with the other batsman as well? Shall we ignore Khawaja's 141 from the first test, for example? Or Stokes' 155 at Lords? All of the leading run scorers in this series are so high up because they've scored a big century at some point. [Post edited 28 Jul 2023 10:57]
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So, Crawley has been that impressive? Get a grip, he’s looked quite vulnerable at times especially outside that off stump, take your head out of your backside. | |
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| Cricket's looking like carnage on 11:04 - Jul 28 with 676 views | Herbivore |
| Cricket's looking like carnage on 10:58 - Jul 28 by Chrisd |
It’s not about not playing shots, it’s about adapting. Scoring off the bad balls and picking up the ones and twos whilst rotating the strike are important especially in conditions like yesterday. We don’t do that, we deal in boundaries, a stand and deliver style - That’s ego. Clever batsmen, even with the testing conditions will look to rotate the strike and keep the bowlers honest, Root is normally very good at this and probably the only one we have. In the main, our batsmen just keep going out swinging, even if they nicked off to a good a ball, that’s clueless. This series has helped to highlight the limitations of Bazball for me at crucial times we’ve come up short. The Indian series will also show that we need to be more versatile in the way we approach our batting by build winning totals in testing conditions.Instead of crash, bang, wallop regardless of the pitch, the quality of the bowling attack and the overhead weather conditions. |
I was there yesterday, we mostly rotated the strike well when we managed to get a partnership going. The problem we had was losing wickets in clusters, which was because new batsmen struggled with the tricky conditions. Root got himself out trying to pinch a single to rotate the strike, for example, but the ball nipped back and he played on. Probably best we agree to disagree. | |
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| Cricket's looking like carnage on 11:05 - Jul 28 with 671 views | Herbivore |
| Cricket's looking like carnage on 11:00 - Jul 28 by Chrisd |
So, Crawley has been that impressive? Get a grip, he’s looked quite vulnerable at times especially outside that off stump, take your head out of your backside. |
Yeah, think I'm done here as not only are you completely missing the point, you're also now being a dick. | |
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| Cricket's looking like carnage on 11:12 - Jul 28 with 664 views | SaleAway |
| Cricket's looking like carnage on 10:58 - Jul 28 by Chrisd |
It’s not about not playing shots, it’s about adapting. Scoring off the bad balls and picking up the ones and twos whilst rotating the strike are important especially in conditions like yesterday. We don’t do that, we deal in boundaries, a stand and deliver style - That’s ego. Clever batsmen, even with the testing conditions will look to rotate the strike and keep the bowlers honest, Root is normally very good at this and probably the only one we have. In the main, our batsmen just keep going out swinging, even if they nicked off to a good a ball, that’s clueless. This series has helped to highlight the limitations of Bazball for me at crucial times we’ve come up short. The Indian series will also show that we need to be more versatile in the way we approach our batting by build winning totals in testing conditions.Instead of crash, bang, wallop regardless of the pitch, the quality of the bowling attack and the overhead weather conditions. |
You clearly haven't been watching. The thing that has made our opening partnerships has been ticking the scoreboard over.... yesterday, they were brilliant for the first hour. Cruised to 60 odd without taking risks. They were scoring ones off the good balls, and taking boundaries off the bad ones.
Crawley got out during a spell from Cummins that would have got most players out.... he wasn't playing an attacking shot. Duckett was unlucky, got one that bounced a bit, but you can't blame the mindset.
Ali was going along sensibly until he did his groin, and then swung.
Root got out trying to run it to third man, which is not exactly an ego shot.
Stokes you could argue should have been playing straighter, but again, it was a good ball.
Bairstow is just a streaky player who relies on his eye, and is vulnerable early on in his innings.... but I've already argued that I don't think he should be in the side.
The only one who I think got out to the "wrong shot" was Brook, but to be fair to him, he was on 85, and had batted brilliantly.
This side, playing conservatively, would have been all out for under 200 yesterday. They don't have the defensive technique to survive in those conditions, as we saw for years before mcCullum/Stokes came along. Yes, they will get out playing aggressively sometimes, but they also score some runs. [Post edited 28 Jul 2023 11:13]
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| Cricket's looking like carnage on 11:12 - Jul 28 with 663 views | Chrisd |
| Cricket's looking like carnage on 11:05 - Jul 28 by Herbivore |
Yeah, think I'm done here as not only are you completely missing the point, you're also now being a dick. |
Not missing the point at all, but we all know you struggle when people disagree with you, it’s something you struggle to cope with. So, I’m more than happy to put a pin it and see how today unfolds. | |
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| Cricket's looking like carnage on 11:16 - Jul 28 with 657 views | Chrisd |
| Cricket's looking like carnage on 11:12 - Jul 28 by SaleAway |
You clearly haven't been watching. The thing that has made our opening partnerships has been ticking the scoreboard over.... yesterday, they were brilliant for the first hour. Cruised to 60 odd without taking risks. They were scoring ones off the good balls, and taking boundaries off the bad ones.
Crawley got out during a spell from Cummins that would have got most players out.... he wasn't playing an attacking shot. Duckett was unlucky, got one that bounced a bit, but you can't blame the mindset.
Ali was going along sensibly until he did his groin, and then swung.
Root got out trying to run it to third man, which is not exactly an ego shot.
Stokes you could argue should have been playing straighter, but again, it was a good ball.
Bairstow is just a streaky player who relies on his eye, and is vulnerable early on in his innings.... but I've already argued that I don't think he should be in the side.
The only one who I think got out to the "wrong shot" was Brook, but to be fair to him, he was on 85, and had batted brilliantly.
This side, playing conservatively, would have been all out for under 200 yesterday. They don't have the defensive technique to survive in those conditions, as we saw for years before mcCullum/Stokes came along. Yes, they will get out playing aggressively sometimes, but they also score some runs. [Post edited 28 Jul 2023 11:13]
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I’ve been watching, in fact I’ve watched most of the series. I still stand but what I’ve posted, it’s a very fair reflection of how we’ve batted the whole series, we’ve been in good positions and given those up with a whimper and that’s been hugely disappointing. Watching the Aussies, they are being very watchful this morning not wafting the bat in the hope they get a few 4s before nicking off to the slips for next to nothing. | |
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| Cricket's looking like carnage on 11:26 - Jul 28 with 643 views | chicoazul |
| Cricket's looking like carnage on 11:16 - Jul 28 by Chrisd |
I’ve been watching, in fact I’ve watched most of the series. I still stand but what I’ve posted, it’s a very fair reflection of how we’ve batted the whole series, we’ve been in good positions and given those up with a whimper and that’s been hugely disappointing. Watching the Aussies, they are being very watchful this morning not wafting the bat in the hope they get a few 4s before nicking off to the slips for next to nothing. |
The Aussies have played for a draw for the last two tests whereas England have played to win. This series has been very tight, our batting is better than theirs and their bowling is better than ours. Carey had been the main point of difference with 5 stumpings. Bazball has not been a failure, as Herbs says it has made us competitive with the Aussies again. I hope England carry on with this mindset but they will need to do it with 4 or 5 new players as several of our fellas suddenly look old. |  |
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| Cricket's looking like carnage on 11:36 - Jul 28 with 629 views | Chrisd |
| Cricket's looking like carnage on 11:26 - Jul 28 by chicoazul |
The Aussies have played for a draw for the last two tests whereas England have played to win. This series has been very tight, our batting is better than theirs and their bowling is better than ours. Carey had been the main point of difference with 5 stumpings. Bazball has not been a failure, as Herbs says it has made us competitive with the Aussies again. I hope England carry on with this mindset but they will need to do it with 4 or 5 new players as several of our fellas suddenly look old. |
I agree that the series has been closely contested, but where I disagree is that England’s approach needs to adapt. It’s too one dimensional. It’s a one fit for all and that is it’s failing which has been highlighted at times during this series. The way we batted at times during the 3rd and 4th test is how we should bat, it was far more measured, there was more consideration for the good balls. At times, we just keep going for our shots whether it’s a quality delivery or not and that’s where my issue lies. Bazball might be entertaining, but if we lose this series and in India then questions will be asked about its logic? Enjoyment is also about winning those big series and if we keep coming up short, how have we progressed? | |
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| Cricket's looking like carnage on 11:41 - Jul 28 with 616 views | chicoazul |
| Cricket's looking like carnage on 11:36 - Jul 28 by Chrisd |
I agree that the series has been closely contested, but where I disagree is that England’s approach needs to adapt. It’s too one dimensional. It’s a one fit for all and that is it’s failing which has been highlighted at times during this series. The way we batted at times during the 3rd and 4th test is how we should bat, it was far more measured, there was more consideration for the good balls. At times, we just keep going for our shots whether it’s a quality delivery or not and that’s where my issue lies. Bazball might be entertaining, but if we lose this series and in India then questions will be asked about its logic? Enjoyment is also about winning those big series and if we keep coming up short, how have we progressed? |
We’ve progressed enormously since the dog days of the Root captaincy, come on. We are probably going to lose a tight series to the Aussies missing 3 of our best players. As you yourself say they haven’t been in 50 over mode all series, far from it. You can’t have it all ways. | |
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| Cricket's looking like carnage on 11:45 - Jul 28 with 606 views | Chrisd |
| Cricket's looking like carnage on 11:41 - Jul 28 by chicoazul |
We’ve progressed enormously since the dog days of the Root captaincy, come on. We are probably going to lose a tight series to the Aussies missing 3 of our best players. As you yourself say they haven’t been in 50 over mode all series, far from it. You can’t have it all ways. |
Why the need to play in one day mode? Test match cricket is played over 5 days. It’s called ‘test’ cricket for a reason. I’m watching the Aussies batting now, they are prepared to dig in, we’d probably already be two or three wickets down chasing wide deliveries. | |
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| Cricket's looking like carnage on 11:46 - Jul 28 with 605 views | Herbivore |
| Cricket's looking like carnage on 11:41 - Jul 28 by chicoazul |
We’ve progressed enormously since the dog days of the Root captaincy, come on. We are probably going to lose a tight series to the Aussies missing 3 of our best players. As you yourself say they haven’t been in 50 over mode all series, far from it. You can’t have it all ways. |
The idea we were measured in the fourth test is a bit odd, we scored nearly 600 runs in a day and a half. It was very much the Bazball approach. Essentially, some people like how we play when we win and don't like how we play when we don't win. | |
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| Cricket's looking like carnage on 11:48 - Jul 28 with 601 views | chicoazul |
| Cricket's looking like carnage on 11:45 - Jul 28 by Chrisd |
Why the need to play in one day mode? Test match cricket is played over 5 days. It’s called ‘test’ cricket for a reason. I’m watching the Aussies batting now, they are prepared to dig in, we’d probably already be two or three wickets down chasing wide deliveries. |
Because they’re playing for a draw blud. They have that luxury. | |
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| Cricket's looking like carnage on 11:49 - Jul 28 with 600 views | Chrisd |
| Cricket's looking like carnage on 11:46 - Jul 28 by Herbivore |
The idea we were measured in the fourth test is a bit odd, we scored nearly 600 runs in a day and a half. It was very much the Bazball approach. Essentially, some people like how we play when we win and don't like how we play when we don't win. |
Hang on, I thought you were done? You keep down voting. | |
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| Cricket's looking like carnage on 11:49 - Jul 28 with 598 views | chicoazul |
| Cricket's looking like carnage on 11:46 - Jul 28 by Herbivore |
The idea we were measured in the fourth test is a bit odd, we scored nearly 600 runs in a day and a half. It was very much the Bazball approach. Essentially, some people like how we play when we win and don't like how we play when we don't win. |
Absolutely. Crawley literally smashed it to all parts including his inside edge for a run a ball. And I think you’re absolutely right (sadly for me) with your last sentence. | |
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| Cricket's looking like carnage on 11:51 - Jul 28 with 598 views | Chrisd |
| Cricket's looking like carnage on 11:48 - Jul 28 by chicoazul |
Because they’re playing for a draw blud. They have that luxury. |
That’s just good batting and shot selection mate and not throwing your wicket away. | |
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| Cricket's looking like carnage on 11:55 - Jul 28 with 583 views | chicoazul |
| Cricket's looking like carnage on 11:51 - Jul 28 by Chrisd |
That’s just good batting and shot selection mate and not throwing your wicket away. |
Sorry but simply not playing shots is not good cricket. I could do that. | |
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| Cricket's looking like carnage on 11:58 - Jul 28 with 581 views | Herbivore |
| Cricket's looking like carnage on 11:48 - Jul 28 by chicoazul |
Because they’re playing for a draw blud. They have that luxury. |
Both batsman could also have easily been out two or three times already, they're riding their luck whilst not advancing the scoreboard. | |
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| Cricket's looking like carnage on 12:00 - Jul 28 with 573 views | Chrisd |
| Cricket's looking like carnage on 11:55 - Jul 28 by chicoazul |
Sorry but simply not playing shots is not good cricket. I could do that. |
Not playing shots?! England are bowling well and this is my point, which seems to be conveniently overlooked. The Aussies are digging in because they need to because England are bowling so well. England’s batters wouldn’t be doing this they’d be throwing their bat around and that’s why we went from 61-0 to 73-3 and ultimately lost our last 7 wickets for 99. [Post edited 28 Jul 2023 12:05]
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| Cricket's looking like carnage on 12:04 - Jul 28 with 552 views | giant_stow |
| Cricket's looking like carnage on 11:48 - Jul 28 by chicoazul |
Because they’re playing for a draw blud. They have that luxury. |
Glad I didn't pay money to watch them do this. How the tables have turned - boring boring Aussies. |  |
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| Cricket's looking like carnage on 12:04 - Jul 28 with 551 views | Chrisd |
| Cricket's looking like carnage on 11:58 - Jul 28 by Herbivore |
Both batsman could also have easily been out two or three times already, they're riding their luck whilst not advancing the scoreboard. |
But they aren’t, what a random thing to say?! They’re digging in because England are bowling so well and that’s the difference. Good batting for me. | |
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| Cricket's looking like carnage on 12:06 - Jul 28 with 547 views | gainsboroughblue |
No breakthrough yet this morning. Very stubborn, obdurate stuff. However, they're not particularly hurting us and are still 200 behind. If we can just nip one or two out. |  |
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