| Apparently this MP's ancestors were slave owners on 15:03 - Aug 31 with 1006 views | Herbivore |
| Apparently this MP's ancestors were slave owners on 14:56 - Aug 31 by redrickstuhaart |
Thats just wrong though. The value is the work of people who have put money into it. And its the lodge , with 1/4 acre is now owned by the ex wife, who needs somewhere to live with her 4 kids and has a divorce settlement based on it.
The rest of the estate has been brought back to a positive value though 25 years of work and investment by the current main owner, who has mortgaged himself to the hilt to restore it and bring it back to glory and is only now starting to see a profit.
Its not simple at all. |
You don't see it as simple, but then you also entirely made it up so not sure what to make of it really. What do you think should happen in your made up example? |  |
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| Apparently this MP's ancestors were slave owners on 15:42 - Aug 31 with 984 views | Coastalblue |
It's easy to take potshots at somebody like Sandbach who is a very visible and (now) obvious target. The reality is though that the vast majority, if not all of us on this board who were born in Britain have benefitted from the slave trade.
That being the case, if we chase her for repatriations, and I'm not saying we shouldn't, then we should all be prepared to do the same.
Personally I wouldn't object to a small purchase tax or something similar being put in place that aimed to do just that, and encourage others across Europe to do the same. However, in a country that votes Tory and voted for Brexit most of these arguments/discussions are meaningless. |  |
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| Apparently this MP's ancestors were slave owners on 16:01 - Aug 31 with 972 views | Herbivore |
| Apparently this MP's ancestors were slave owners on 15:42 - Aug 31 by Coastalblue |
It's easy to take potshots at somebody like Sandbach who is a very visible and (now) obvious target. The reality is though that the vast majority, if not all of us on this board who were born in Britain have benefitted from the slave trade.
That being the case, if we chase her for repatriations, and I'm not saying we shouldn't, then we should all be prepared to do the same.
Personally I wouldn't object to a small purchase tax or something similar being put in place that aimed to do just that, and encourage others across Europe to do the same. However, in a country that votes Tory and voted for Brexit most of these arguments/discussions are meaningless. |
I think you'd have a tough time asking descendants of farm labourers and people who were in workhouses who are still living pay day to pay day to contribute along the lines of those who still own and benefit from estates that were the direct result of benefiting from slavery. There's some truth in the idea that the country as a whole, and thus all of us, benefited to some degree, but the benefits were not distributed remotely equally and so reparations should not be expected to be borne equally either. | |
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| Apparently this MP's ancestors were slave owners on 16:31 - Aug 31 with 941 views | Coastalblue |
| Apparently this MP's ancestors were slave owners on 16:01 - Aug 31 by Herbivore |
I think you'd have a tough time asking descendants of farm labourers and people who were in workhouses who are still living pay day to pay day to contribute along the lines of those who still own and benefit from estates that were the direct result of benefiting from slavery. There's some truth in the idea that the country as a whole, and thus all of us, benefited to some degree, but the benefits were not distributed remotely equally and so reparations should not be expected to be borne equally either. |
Don't disagree, and agree that benefits were not equally distributed and would not have been done so in the period since. However, we have all grown up in a prosperous country with access to education and healthcare, I live in a great City much of which was funded by slavery or businesses associated to it.
I do think there is an argument for reparations, and I also believe there's an argument to be had about us as a society bearing some of that cost. I do take your point with regards to people living hand to mouth, and so any form of taxation should take account of that. Small levy on purchases over £1K for example, though that's not a serious suggestion, just me thinking off the cuff.
Edit: I'm certainly not looking to argue with you because I think essentially we come from a similar place. Just voicing some thoughts really. [Post edited 31 Aug 2023 16:32]
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| Apparently this MP's ancestors were slave owners on 16:55 - Aug 31 with 923 views | Herbivore |
| Apparently this MP's ancestors were slave owners on 16:31 - Aug 31 by Coastalblue |
Don't disagree, and agree that benefits were not equally distributed and would not have been done so in the period since. However, we have all grown up in a prosperous country with access to education and healthcare, I live in a great City much of which was funded by slavery or businesses associated to it.
I do think there is an argument for reparations, and I also believe there's an argument to be had about us as a society bearing some of that cost. I do take your point with regards to people living hand to mouth, and so any form of taxation should take account of that. Small levy on purchases over £1K for example, though that's not a serious suggestion, just me thinking off the cuff.
Edit: I'm certainly not looking to argue with you because I think essentially we come from a similar place. Just voicing some thoughts really. [Post edited 31 Aug 2023 16:32]
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There are a lot of institutions with historic links to the slave trade, perhaps levying a tax on their financial transactions might be a good start. Agree that I don't think we're far apart, I do feel quite strongly that those whose ancestors benefited the most and whose descendants have continued to prosper as a result are the ones who should bear more of the burden in any form of reparations, along with institutions who similarly have benefited from slavery in years gone by. | |
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| Apparently this MP's ancestors were slave owners on 17:04 - Aug 31 with 905 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Apparently this MP's ancestors were slave owners on 15:03 - Aug 31 by Herbivore |
You don't see it as simple, but then you also entirely made it up so not sure what to make of it really. What do you think should happen in your made up example? |
Don't be silly. You can see precisely what the issues are from notional example. |  | | |
| Apparently this MP's ancestors were slave owners on 17:05 - Aug 31 with 905 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Apparently this MP's ancestors were slave owners on 15:42 - Aug 31 by Coastalblue |
It's easy to take potshots at somebody like Sandbach who is a very visible and (now) obvious target. The reality is though that the vast majority, if not all of us on this board who were born in Britain have benefitted from the slave trade.
That being the case, if we chase her for repatriations, and I'm not saying we shouldn't, then we should all be prepared to do the same.
Personally I wouldn't object to a small purchase tax or something similar being put in place that aimed to do just that, and encourage others across Europe to do the same. However, in a country that votes Tory and voted for Brexit most of these arguments/discussions are meaningless. |
A fair point. 5p on income tax so we all pay as well? | | | |
| Apparently this MP's ancestors were slave owners on 17:14 - Aug 31 with 858 views | J2BLUE |
| Apparently this MP's ancestors were slave owners on 17:05 - Aug 31 by redrickstuhaart |
A fair point. 5p on income tax so we all pay as well? |
5p? They won't even raise it by 1p to support the NHS. There is zero chance it will ever go up by 5p for something like this and it shouldn't either.
We should pay something but it needs to be realistic. |  |
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| Apparently this MP's ancestors were slave owners on 18:24 - Aug 31 with 813 views | Herbivore |
| Apparently this MP's ancestors were slave owners on 17:04 - Aug 31 by redrickstuhaart |
Don't be silly. You can see precisely what the issues are from notional example. |
From the made up example I can see what issues you're trying to play up but I don't necessarily agree that they are issues. I'm curious to know what you think should be done, all of us should pay more tax so those with substantial assets directly linked to slavery can be protected seems to be your solution? | |
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| Apparently this MP's ancestors were slave owners on 18:33 - Aug 31 with 804 views | factual_blue |
If his PhD demonstrated that her ancestor were the Greatest Ever Englishman, I doubt she'd be demanding her privacy. |  |
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| Apparently this MP's ancestors were slave owners on 18:48 - Aug 31 with 776 views | eireblue |
| Apparently this MP's ancestors were slave owners on 10:01 - Aug 31 by redrickstuhaart |
Seems understandable, surely?
She had nothing to do with it. Punishing people for the sins of ancestors is a bit like original sin from the bible. Utterly unfair and ridiculous. But we know full well that certain people will latch onto this and abuse her for it etc. |
Who is being punished?
I can only see a reference to legal action taken against research? |  | | |
| Apparently this MP's ancestors were slave owners on 19:08 - Aug 31 with 759 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Apparently this MP's ancestors were slave owners on 18:24 - Aug 31 by Herbivore |
From the made up example I can see what issues you're trying to play up but I don't necessarily agree that they are issues. I'm curious to know what you think should be done, all of us should pay more tax so those with substantial assets directly linked to slavery can be protected seems to be your solution? |
Im not "playing up" anything. Just illustrating. Put your agenda away and engage normally. | | | |
| Apparently this MP's ancestors were slave owners on 19:10 - Aug 31 with 758 views | Herbivore |
| Apparently this MP's ancestors were slave owners on 19:08 - Aug 31 by redrickstuhaart |
Im not "playing up" anything. Just illustrating. Put your agenda away and engage normally. |
I have engaged normally, but you've resolutely refused to do so. You've offered no suggestion whatsoever of what you would propose as a solution, either generally or in relation to your made up example. | |
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| Apparently this MP's ancestors were slave owners on 19:46 - Aug 31 with 742 views | benrhyddingblue |
I’m sure my ancestors had abhorrent views. My Dad for instance fought against the Japanese in Burma in WW2 of which I am immensely proud. However, his attitude to India/Pakistan would be deemed shocking in today’s thinking (and mine). But he was a product of his time - working class, little education (left school at 13) and the Empire vision that still prevailed pre-WW2. But he didn’t impose that view on me and encouraged me to be the first in our family to university. Same for her, can’t blame slavery on her, despite her objectionable 21st century views. | | | |
| Apparently this Tory MP's ancestors were slave owners on 19:52 - Aug 31 with 739 views | benrhyddingblue |
| Apparently this Tory MP's ancestors were slave owners on 09:33 - Aug 31 by Blueschev |
What these woke, Marxist lecturers don't tell you is the many positives of so called slavery. Just as the British Empire was a beacon of enlightenment on the world that should be celebrated, slavery instilled a work ethic that was invaluable. Why's that not being taught in schools? It's because they hate our country that's why. |
I’m hoping you are being ironic? Giving you the benefit of the doubt. If not, I’d love to have a discussion on Marxism - fascinating subject which, if not being ironic, you must be an expert on to be using such terminology in posts? | | | |
| Apparently this Tory MP's ancestors were slave owners on 20:00 - Aug 31 with 732 views | giant_stow |
| Apparently this Tory MP's ancestors were slave owners on 19:52 - Aug 31 by benrhyddingblue |
I’m hoping you are being ironic? Giving you the benefit of the doubt. If not, I’d love to have a discussion on Marxism - fascinating subject which, if not being ironic, you must be an expert on to be using such terminology in posts? |
Got a feeling that mr Chev could give you a good chat on Marxism (and he was being ironic) |  |
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| Apparently this MP's ancestors were slave owners on 20:05 - Aug 31 with 722 views | eireblue |
| Apparently this MP's ancestors were slave owners on 19:46 - Aug 31 by benrhyddingblue |
I’m sure my ancestors had abhorrent views. My Dad for instance fought against the Japanese in Burma in WW2 of which I am immensely proud. However, his attitude to India/Pakistan would be deemed shocking in today’s thinking (and mine). But he was a product of his time - working class, little education (left school at 13) and the Empire vision that still prevailed pre-WW2. But he didn’t impose that view on me and encouraged me to be the first in our family to university. Same for her, can’t blame slavery on her, despite her objectionable 21st century views. |
I always find the “product of their time” is always an interesting term.
Were people that protested and legislated against slavery a product of their time?
There is evidence that a few people thought slavery was a bad thing during Ancient Greek and Roman times. No big movement against it or evidence that there was any such thing.
Should we have statues of more people in history that seemed to have managed to spot immoral things, rather than people that have profited from immoral things.
Anywho, who is blaming slavery on the MP in question? | | | |
| Apparently this MP's ancestors were slave owners on 20:32 - Aug 31 with 704 views | Herbivore |
| Apparently this MP's ancestors were slave owners on 19:46 - Aug 31 by benrhyddingblue |
I’m sure my ancestors had abhorrent views. My Dad for instance fought against the Japanese in Burma in WW2 of which I am immensely proud. However, his attitude to India/Pakistan would be deemed shocking in today’s thinking (and mine). But he was a product of his time - working class, little education (left school at 13) and the Empire vision that still prevailed pre-WW2. But he didn’t impose that view on me and encouraged me to be the first in our family to university. Same for her, can’t blame slavery on her, despite her objectionable 21st century views. |
Did your dad's views generate vast wealth through the exploitation of others, wealth that you and your family still significantly benefit from today whilst those be exploited continue to face major disadvantages? If not, I'm not sure what that has to do with this thread really. | |
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