| I don’t understand 16:51 - Sep 5 with 9036 views | chicoazul |
How or why has this happened? Imagine getting sacked after winning the World Cup.
Jorge Vilda: Spanish federation sacks World Cup-winning coach amid Luis Rubiales kiss row https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66721003 |  |
| |  |
| I don’t understand on 20:22 - Sep 5 with 1978 views | Hipsterectomy |
there is literally a video of him celebrating by groping a female colleague coach tit
why do people think this guy is innocent |  |
| Walter Smith's Barmy Army |
| |
| I don’t understand on 20:26 - Sep 5 with 1962 views | WicklowBlue |
| I don’t understand on 18:35 - Sep 5 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Winning the world cup suggests his management isn't bad. |
Maybe research a topic before blithely commenting on it. The players have been unhappy for over a year with the Spanish FA setup.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/sep/23/player-mutiny-exposes-deeper-is
Even their government is trying to sanction Rubiales although they cannot do anything directly.
Anyone who condones Rubiales's is just trying to add to the list of edgelords on here! |  | | |
| I don’t understand on 21:14 - Sep 5 with 1910 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
I'm not sure you have been reading the thread properly.
I don't condone what Rubiales did. I think it was wrong, and he should have resigned.
Not sure how you managed to misinterpret so badly.
Please research the thread, before blithely commenting on it. |  |
| |
| I don’t understand on 21:26 - Sep 5 with 1900 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| I don’t understand on 20:22 - Sep 5 by Hipsterectomy |
there is literally a video of him celebrating by groping a female colleague coach tit
why do people think this guy is innocent |
There isn't.
That's clearly not intentional.
What Rubiales did was wrong and intentional, and he should have resigned. But the Vilda 'incident' is not even similar. | |
| |
| I don’t understand on 21:49 - Sep 5 with 1877 views | WicklowBlue |
| I don’t understand on 21:14 - Sep 5 by Marshalls_Mullet |
I'm not sure you have been reading the thread properly.
I don't condone what Rubiales did. I think it was wrong, and he should have resigned.
Not sure how you managed to misinterpret so badly.
Please research the thread, before blithely commenting on it. |
Ok let's play this game. I'll accept that my comment on Rubiales was a response to other posts in the thread.
If you accept quote:
"To be fair, claims of inadequate facilities and poor training sessions seem to be unfounded in the light of the WC win."
"Winning the world cup suggests his management isn't bad."
Is totally disingenuous as per the 2022 article I posted. I look forward to your blithe comment in return. | | | |
| I don’t understand on 21:54 - Sep 5 with 1883 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| I don’t understand on 21:49 - Sep 5 by WicklowBlue |
Ok let's play this game. I'll accept that my comment on Rubiales was a response to other posts in the thread.
If you accept quote:
"To be fair, claims of inadequate facilities and poor training sessions seem to be unfounded in the light of the WC win."
"Winning the world cup suggests his management isn't bad."
Is totally disingenuous as per the 2022 article I posted. I look forward to your blithe comment in return. |
Apology accepted.
Vilda is clearly a capable manager and puts on adequate sessions, evidenced by him being the manager of a world cup winning team.
Is that factually incorrect?
Please read the threads and consider in the full context of the comments they were in response to. | |
| |
| I don’t understand on 22:13 - Sep 5 with 1846 views | WicklowBlue |
| I don’t understand on 21:54 - Sep 5 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Apology accepted.
Vilda is clearly a capable manager and puts on adequate sessions, evidenced by him being the manager of a world cup winning team.
Is that factually incorrect?
Please read the threads and consider in the full context of the comments they were in response to. |
I did not apologise and nor did you engage with any of the points I made.
I am making the point that there were a lot of concerns around Vilda which led 15 players to say they would not play for their country again.
Quoting the article I posted from 2022:
"In a single minute, more than half of the Spain team had pulled out, determined that they would not go back for as long as nothing changes and Jorge Vilda is in charge – even if they did not explicitly express it in those terms, the coach not named. In August they had pushed for the president of the federation, Luis Rubiales, to make changes in women’s football that included Vilda; when Rubiales had refused, they had tried to get Vilda to walk but he would not. Now, they had decided they would do so instead. This could not continue, on more levels than one."
I don't think you can cast away all these concerns by saying "Winning the world cup suggests his management isn't bad.".
But you do you and I'll leave you to it. | | | |
| I don’t understand on 22:23 - Sep 5 with 1842 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| I don’t understand on 22:13 - Sep 5 by WicklowBlue |
I did not apologise and nor did you engage with any of the points I made.
I am making the point that there were a lot of concerns around Vilda which led 15 players to say they would not play for their country again.
Quoting the article I posted from 2022:
"In a single minute, more than half of the Spain team had pulled out, determined that they would not go back for as long as nothing changes and Jorge Vilda is in charge – even if they did not explicitly express it in those terms, the coach not named. In August they had pushed for the president of the federation, Luis Rubiales, to make changes in women’s football that included Vilda; when Rubiales had refused, they had tried to get Vilda to walk but he would not. Now, they had decided they would do so instead. This could not continue, on more levels than one."
I don't think you can cast away all these concerns by saying "Winning the world cup suggests his management isn't bad.".
But you do you and I'll leave you to it. |
The article states that there is no suggestion of inappropriate behaviour, they basically felt he was incapable as a manager.
The fact that he led a group of largely different players to WC success suggests they were wrong!! [Post edited 5 Sep 2023 22:23]
| |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| I don’t understand on 22:26 - Sep 5 with 1823 views | DropCliffsNotBombs |
| I don’t understand on 21:54 - Sep 5 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Apology accepted.
Vilda is clearly a capable manager and puts on adequate sessions, evidenced by him being the manager of a world cup winning team.
Is that factually incorrect?
Please read the threads and consider in the full context of the comments they were in response to. |
Ok yeah, you don't come across as the winner here. |  | | |
| I don’t understand on 22:37 - Sep 5 with 1807 views | eireblue |
| I don’t understand on 22:23 - Sep 5 by Marshalls_Mullet |
The article states that there is no suggestion of inappropriate behaviour, they basically felt he was incapable as a manager.
The fact that he led a group of largely different players to WC success suggests they were wrong!! [Post edited 5 Sep 2023 22:23]
|
You are assuming that a team can’t outperform the capabilities of the manager.
That can happen, seen that in different industries.
I wonder, how many times, and under what circumstances a football manager has lost the dressing room, and stays in post. |  | | |
| I don’t understand on 22:42 - Sep 5 with 1796 views | Swansea_Blue |
| I don’t understand on 20:22 - Sep 5 by Hipsterectomy |
there is literally a video of him celebrating by groping a female colleague coach tit
why do people think this guy is innocent |
That’s nothing. I celebrated our L1 promotion by hanging out with a whole bunch of tits on here!
He certainly comes across as the touchy geeky sort (or in other words a groper). |  |
| |
| I don’t understand on 22:55 - Sep 5 with 1774 views | Vegtablue |
| I don’t understand on 22:23 - Sep 5 by Marshalls_Mullet |
The article states that there is no suggestion of inappropriate behaviour, they basically felt he was incapable as a manager.
The fact that he led a group of largely different players to WC success suggests they were wrong!! [Post edited 5 Sep 2023 22:23]
|
Spain's women winning the World Cup is not conclusive evidence he's the right manager for the job. It doesn't prove he's a great coach - it's supportive of this conclusion but do you know the balance or ratio of players : management in this success? I'm not sufficiently familiar to know. I know it can't be ideal to have a situation in which a large group refuse to play, as was the case despite the WC win. There's a case for Spain winning with a hand tied behind her back, rather than finally realizing her full potential through excellent leadership. |  | | |
| I don’t understand on 23:38 - Sep 5 with 1746 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| I don’t understand on 22:26 - Sep 5 by DropCliffsNotBombs |
Ok yeah, you don't come across as the winner here. |
It's ok to disagree. | |
| |
| I don’t understand on 23:38 - Sep 5 with 1746 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| I don’t understand on 22:55 - Sep 5 by Vegtablue |
Spain's women winning the World Cup is not conclusive evidence he's the right manager for the job. It doesn't prove he's a great coach - it's supportive of this conclusion but do you know the balance or ratio of players : management in this success? I'm not sufficiently familiar to know. I know it can't be ideal to have a situation in which a large group refuse to play, as was the case despite the WC win. There's a case for Spain winning with a hand tied behind her back, rather than finally realizing her full potential through excellent leadership. |
That's one narrative for sure. | |
| |
| I don’t understand on 23:41 - Sep 5 with 1745 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| I don’t understand on 22:37 - Sep 5 by eireblue |
You are assuming that a team can’t outperform the capabilities of the manager.
That can happen, seen that in different industries.
I wonder, how many times, and under what circumstances a football manager has lost the dressing room, and stays in post. |
It's ok to give the guy credit, and still admit he has faults.
No one said he's perfect, but it's clear he's a capable coach.
He out thought the coach of the year in the final. | |
| |
| I don’t understand on 00:30 - Sep 6 with 1712 views | Vegtablue |
| I don’t understand on 23:38 - Sep 5 by Marshalls_Mullet |
That's one narrative for sure. |
I agree it feels closer to narrative than truth in respect to his coaching abilities, given we don't appear to have good knowledge of Spanish women's football. Continuing with him for a new cycle would have bordered on the farcical though; there's so much discontent and plenty of it preexisted the Rubiales incident. Spain will want to find a successor who allows them to reintegrate their talent pool much more than before, which shouldn't be difficult once Rubiales and Vilda are both off the scene. | | | |
| I don’t understand on 09:19 - Sep 6 with 1600 views | Ryorry |
| I don’t understand on 18:37 - Sep 5 by Marshalls_Mullet |
I still think its odd, he was part of that achievement.
They should have probably amicably parted ways on a high. |
He was part of that achievement - at what cost? Are you so unable to consider things from anything other than a results point of view? |  |
| |
| I don’t understand on 10:20 - Sep 6 with 1542 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
Maybe read up on the British Cycling Team, or British Swimming Team.
Toxic cultures allow abusers to get away with things, and sometimes they get away with things so easily that they get careless and do some things publicly.
See also Chris Pincher
In this case there had been a prolonged attempt by Spanish Women Footballers to take on the toxic culture, and the public actions of both the President and coach may be seen as a defiant "Fck you!" to any sense that they were bound by rules of consent, or constraint on their power.
They thought they were (ironically) untouchable. See also Trump ("grab them by the pussy", "I could shoot someone in the street") Harvey Weinstein, Jeffery Epstein, Kevin Spacey, Jimmy Savile.
Toxic cultures breed abuse and embolden sociopathic abusers.
Completely throwing open the windows to let the light in, and clearing out the upper floors of the administration, is the only solution. | | | |
| I don’t understand on 10:45 - Sep 6 with 1523 views | Steve_M |
| I don’t understand on 10:20 - Sep 6 by ArnoldMoorhen |
Maybe read up on the British Cycling Team, or British Swimming Team.
Toxic cultures allow abusers to get away with things, and sometimes they get away with things so easily that they get careless and do some things publicly.
See also Chris Pincher
In this case there had been a prolonged attempt by Spanish Women Footballers to take on the toxic culture, and the public actions of both the President and coach may be seen as a defiant "Fck you!" to any sense that they were bound by rules of consent, or constraint on their power.
They thought they were (ironically) untouchable. See also Trump ("grab them by the pussy", "I could shoot someone in the street") Harvey Weinstein, Jeffery Epstein, Kevin Spacey, Jimmy Savile.
Toxic cultures breed abuse and embolden sociopathic abusers.
Completely throwing open the windows to let the light in, and clearing out the upper floors of the administration, is the only solution. |
Or the US gymnastics team.
Simone Biles was an outstanding athlete but the coaching structure was toxic and abusive, as I think has been demonstrated with criminal convictions. |  |
| |
| I don’t understand on 11:18 - Sep 6 with 1484 views | BarcaBlue |
| I don’t understand on 10:20 - Sep 6 by ArnoldMoorhen |
Maybe read up on the British Cycling Team, or British Swimming Team.
Toxic cultures allow abusers to get away with things, and sometimes they get away with things so easily that they get careless and do some things publicly.
See also Chris Pincher
In this case there had been a prolonged attempt by Spanish Women Footballers to take on the toxic culture, and the public actions of both the President and coach may be seen as a defiant "Fck you!" to any sense that they were bound by rules of consent, or constraint on their power.
They thought they were (ironically) untouchable. See also Trump ("grab them by the pussy", "I could shoot someone in the street") Harvey Weinstein, Jeffery Epstein, Kevin Spacey, Jimmy Savile.
Toxic cultures breed abuse and embolden sociopathic abusers.
Completely throwing open the windows to let the light in, and clearing out the upper floors of the administration, is the only solution. |
That is an excellent post and summarises what past and present Spanish women footballers are campaigning for. They want a complete reset. Unfortunately it took a non-consensual kiss, aggression and groin grabbing in front of millions to expose the failings, toxicity and sexist attitudes deep rooted in the Spanish football hierarchy. [Post edited 6 Sep 2023 11:20]
|  | | |
| I don’t understand on 11:31 - Sep 6 with 1468 views | chicoazul |
| I don’t understand on 10:20 - Sep 6 by ArnoldMoorhen |
Maybe read up on the British Cycling Team, or British Swimming Team.
Toxic cultures allow abusers to get away with things, and sometimes they get away with things so easily that they get careless and do some things publicly.
See also Chris Pincher
In this case there had been a prolonged attempt by Spanish Women Footballers to take on the toxic culture, and the public actions of both the President and coach may be seen as a defiant "Fck you!" to any sense that they were bound by rules of consent, or constraint on their power.
They thought they were (ironically) untouchable. See also Trump ("grab them by the pussy", "I could shoot someone in the street") Harvey Weinstein, Jeffery Epstein, Kevin Spacey, Jimmy Savile.
Toxic cultures breed abuse and embolden sociopathic abusers.
Completely throwing open the windows to let the light in, and clearing out the upper floors of the administration, is the only solution. |
Public actions by the President yes but what “public actions” did the coach make? That’s who I’m talking about. | |
| |
| I don’t understand on 11:46 - Sep 6 with 1452 views | Cafe_Newman |
It used to be okay to disagree but not today. In these enlightened times of inclusion, there are permitted narratives and those who exercise their right to speak freely and hold a different opinion are hateful, toxic, dangerous peddlers of mis/disinformation and are silenced, cancelled or deplatformed. Just see what response this post gets. At best it will be ignored, but most likely it will be downvoted for brazen non-compliance to state imposed doublegoodthink, or my identity will be linked to some left-field poster from the past. I might be asked to provide conclusive evidence to support any alternative opinion I may hold without which my views are invalid because... "science". Any evidence which is not immediately available on a "credible" source and fact-checked is invalid. Chairman Mao, Erich Honecker and any of the glorious leaders would be so proud of the Orwellian times under which we live today.
I haven't formed an opinion on the topic in question yet having been disappointed that we didn't win and then just thinking the events in Spain and the global reporting of them are just too weird to get my head round despite various posters in this thread pointing out that it's quite simple to understand really. |  | | |
| I don’t understand on 11:53 - Sep 6 with 1424 views | eireblue |
| I don’t understand on 23:41 - Sep 5 by Marshalls_Mullet |
It's ok to give the guy credit, and still admit he has faults.
No one said he's perfect, but it's clear he's a capable coach.
He out thought the coach of the year in the final. |
It is also okay to give the team credit and not make an assumption on how much of the ability to win is based on the capability of the coach.
As is known from the mystical new manager bounce, teams tend to perform to a certain level.
Do you have primary evidence of the tactics that the manager explicitly asked the team to do, in order to counter the opposition? If you don’t, then your last statement is meaningless. | | | |
| I don’t understand on 12:44 - Sep 6 with 1389 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| I don’t understand on 11:46 - Sep 6 by Cafe_Newman |
It used to be okay to disagree but not today. In these enlightened times of inclusion, there are permitted narratives and those who exercise their right to speak freely and hold a different opinion are hateful, toxic, dangerous peddlers of mis/disinformation and are silenced, cancelled or deplatformed. Just see what response this post gets. At best it will be ignored, but most likely it will be downvoted for brazen non-compliance to state imposed doublegoodthink, or my identity will be linked to some left-field poster from the past. I might be asked to provide conclusive evidence to support any alternative opinion I may hold without which my views are invalid because... "science". Any evidence which is not immediately available on a "credible" source and fact-checked is invalid. Chairman Mao, Erich Honecker and any of the glorious leaders would be so proud of the Orwellian times under which we live today.
I haven't formed an opinion on the topic in question yet having been disappointed that we didn't win and then just thinking the events in Spain and the global reporting of them are just too weird to get my head round despite various posters in this thread pointing out that it's quite simple to understand really. |
No.
Holding a different opinion isn't hateful, toxic, dangerous peddling of mis/disinformation. Holding hateful, toxic, mis/disinformation opinions is hateful, toxic, dangerous peddling of mis/disinformation.
And why do you talk of evidence and science as if they're dirty words? Without them you can pass off any old sh!t as true. We're not in the dark ages anymore. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
| |
| I don’t understand on 13:06 - Sep 6 with 1365 views | Cafe_Newman |
| I don’t understand on 12:44 - Sep 6 by The_Flashing_Smile |
No.
Holding a different opinion isn't hateful, toxic, dangerous peddling of mis/disinformation. Holding hateful, toxic, mis/disinformation opinions is hateful, toxic, dangerous peddling of mis/disinformation.
And why do you talk of evidence and science as if they're dirty words? Without them you can pass off any old sh!t as true. We're not in the dark ages anymore. |
"Holding a different opinion isn't hateful, toxic, dangerous peddling of mis/disinformation. Holding hateful, toxic, mis/disinformation opinions is hateful, toxic, dangerous peddling of mis/disinformation."
"hateful, toxic, dangerous " - all rather subjective, right?
"And why do you talk of evidence and science as if they're dirty words?"
I didn't. It's your subjective opinion which has lead you to that opinion.
Subjective evidence is not good evidence and shouldn't be used in science.
Furthermore the existence of something demonstrated by evidence does not mean that thing's non-existence when the evidence is destroyed, hidden, no longer accessible or accessible to just a few. When people start to believe it does, we are well on our way to living in the dark ages again. [Post edited 6 Sep 2023 13:09]
| | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
