| 260 bodies recovered from desert rave on 23:17 - Oct 11 with 2104 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| 260 bodies recovered from desert rave on 17:48 - Oct 11 by BanksterDebtSlave |
The ground has been laid for the Israeli State's response. Following the kibbutz massacre military spokesmen were literally saying...."bare this in mind when we are accused of reacting disproportionately." Israel will never, ever be charged with war crimes, they have carte blanche (pretty much like all Western 'civilised states!) [Post edited 11 Oct 2023 17:49]
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Some more people that won't be convicted of war crimes...
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/oct/11/two-sleeping-afghan-adults-shot- |  |
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| 260 bodies recovered from desert rave on 23:24 - Oct 11 with 2087 views | Whos_blue |
| 260 bodies recovered from desert rave on 16:35 - Oct 11 by Whos_blue |
Sigh.
I'm just so depressed by this.
This was an opportunity to demonstrate a statesman like solution via a carefully worded statement.
Instead he appears incapacitated, following the antisemitism inquiry, by fear of saying anything even remotely critical of the Israeli state.
We're all agreed that Hamas acted in an abhorrent manner, but surely that cannot excuse the crushing retalitory tactics we're now seeing? |
Emily Thornberry also just wilted on this when questioned on Newsnight.
I generally quite like her but her refusal to answer the question was infuriating.
I'm not completely naive, but what are they so scared of? |  |
| Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness. |
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| 260 bodies recovered from desert rave on 23:37 - Oct 11 with 2051 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| 260 bodies recovered from desert rave on 23:24 - Oct 11 by Whos_blue |
Emily Thornberry also just wilted on this when questioned on Newsnight.
I generally quite like her but her refusal to answer the question was infuriating.
I'm not completely naive, but what are they so scared of? |
They believe in nothing but power at any cost. | |
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| 260 bodies recovered from desert rave on 00:05 - Oct 12 with 2023 views | redrickstuhaart |
| 260 bodies recovered from desert rave on 23:37 - Oct 11 by BanksterDebtSlave |
They believe in nothing but power at any cost. |
Harsh really. We know in this day and age, if you take a nuanced line, you will get slaughtered. |  | | |
| 260 bodies recovered from desert rave on 00:55 - Oct 12 with 2008 views | Ryorry |
| 260 bodies recovered from desert rave on 22:26 - Oct 11 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Edit- the numbers are from 2001, but apparently there are <20k Israeli’s in the UK so it doesn’t seem that material in terms of votes.
The UK and US governments have largely always backed Israel, strategic Middle Eastern ally with a powerful military, western aligned, counter balance to Iran, and an advanced economy. For that reason they’ve often turned a blind eye to Israeli war crimes, I think it’s simplistic to think it’s purely electioneering. [Post edited 11 Oct 2023 22:33]
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Did you mean "<20k Israeli's" or <20K Jewish voters in your first para?
Not every Jewish voter in the UK will be a sympathiser of the Israeli govt. (indeed many will be vehemently opposed), but nevertheless there'll be a significant number of British Jews (not Israeli citizens) who might be influenced by either Labour or the tories' policy on Israel. The fear factor might play a part. I've no idea of the usual party political voting patterns or majorities in the constituencies with the largest Jewish populations though.
Must admit I'd forgotten about the likely strategic factor in US & UK leaders', thinking, though the usual crude assumption about Israel as the 'last bastion of western "civilisation" ' in the Middle East is looking increasingly hollow. |  |
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| 260 bodies recovered from desert rave on 00:56 - Oct 12 with 2005 views | Ryorry |
| 260 bodies recovered from desert rave on 23:08 - Oct 11 by BanksterDebtSlave |
This from the Guardian. See the last paragraph for your answer...
Since Joe Biden’s speech on Tuesday condemning the “sheer evil” of Saturday’s attack by Hamas on Israel’s south, the US president has been the subject of gushing compliments by Israelis who believed him when he said forcefully, “The United States has Israel’s back.”
“Joe Biden’s speech was the speech Israelis were waiting for,” said Axios’s Barak Ravid, writing for the Israeli news site Walla. “It’s no exaggeration to say that Joe Biden this week engraved his name in gold letters on Israel’s heart,” wrote another commentator. A newscaster with Kan, the public broadcaster, observed he was doing a more effective job communicating to Israel than its own prime minister.
Another compared the speech to Truman’s address recognizing Israel’s independence on May 14,1948. Ravid reported that 48% of Israelis watched the speech, in which Biden, with soaring references to Jewish and Israeli history, promised to support Israel with military aid and defend Jewish institutions in the US.
The outpouring came amid widespread anger at the Netanyahu government over its failure to defend the southern border ahead of the attack, or manage the response after it was underway. Residents hiding in their homes described a feeling of acute abandonment by the state as they listened to their neighbors being massacred and waited in agony for hours before the army appeared.
Some 70% of Israeli Jews said they supported Donald Trump over Biden in the 2020 election. During his presidency, Trump enjoyed higher ratings in Israel than in any other foreign country. |
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| 260 bodies recovered from desert rave on 07:55 - Oct 12 with 1906 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| 260 bodies recovered from desert rave on 00:55 - Oct 12 by Ryorry |
Did you mean "<20k Israeli's" or <20K Jewish voters in your first para?
Not every Jewish voter in the UK will be a sympathiser of the Israeli govt. (indeed many will be vehemently opposed), but nevertheless there'll be a significant number of British Jews (not Israeli citizens) who might be influenced by either Labour or the tories' policy on Israel. The fear factor might play a part. I've no idea of the usual party political voting patterns or majorities in the constituencies with the largest Jewish populations though.
Must admit I'd forgotten about the likely strategic factor in US & UK leaders', thinking, though the usual crude assumption about Israel as the 'last bastion of western "civilisation" ' in the Middle East is looking increasingly hollow. |
I meant Israeli’s.
When he was talking about garnering votes I assumed that was what he meant. Because assuming all Jewish people in the Uk, many of whom have been here for generations and have no links to Israel would be bigoted to say the least. | | | |
| 260 bodies recovered from desert rave on 08:02 - Oct 12 with 1887 views | GlasgowBlue |
Thread about 260 teenagers massacred at a music festival by terrorists in Israel
Banksy. Let’s highjack the thread and make it about British soldiers escaping war crime prosecutions. You have no shame. |  |
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| 260 bodies recovered from desert rave on 08:07 - Oct 12 with 1877 views | GlasgowBlue |
| 260 bodies recovered from desert rave on 21:20 - Oct 11 by Bigalhunter |
I fully agree with you.
It horrifies me that Sunak and Biden have fallen into line so predictably and compliantly.
It reeks of vote grabbing and sinister wider influence.
This isn’t a Russia/Ukraine equivalence however much the BBC News at 10 tries to frame it. [Post edited 11 Oct 2023 21:42]
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Clarify what you mean by “sinister wider influence”. | |
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| 260 bodies recovered from desert rave on 08:07 - Oct 12 with 1878 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| 260 bodies recovered from desert rave on 08:02 - Oct 12 by GlasgowBlue |
Thread about 260 teenagers massacred at a music festival by terrorists in Israel
Banksy. Let’s highjack the thread and make it about British soldiers escaping war crime prosecutions. You have no shame. |
#obsessed
Edit....see if you can spot any other tangents in the 5 pages of replies. [Post edited 12 Oct 2023 8:09]
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| 260 bodies recovered from desert rave on 08:29 - Oct 12 with 1852 views | redrickstuhaart |
| 260 bodies recovered from desert rave on 08:02 - Oct 12 by GlasgowBlue |
Thread about 260 teenagers massacred at a music festival by terrorists in Israel
Banksy. Let’s highjack the thread and make it about British soldiers escaping war crime prosecutions. You have no shame. |
There are many innocents killed in a bombardment and hospitals are being "sieged" and will be out of power and / or water. Comment on the manner in which the west turns a blind eye to war crimes and atrocities when convenient is relevant to the thread, no matter how uncomfortable. | | | |
| 260 bodies recovered from desert rave on 08:41 - Oct 12 with 1831 views | Buhrer |
| 260 bodies recovered from desert rave on 08:29 - Oct 12 by redrickstuhaart |
There are many innocents killed in a bombardment and hospitals are being "sieged" and will be out of power and / or water. Comment on the manner in which the west turns a blind eye to war crimes and atrocities when convenient is relevant to the thread, no matter how uncomfortable. |
"When convenient is relevant to the thread" "no matter how uncomfortable" "comment on the matter"
260 plus kids murdered, raped and kidnapped at a dance. Ugh, I just feel sick. |  | | |
| 260 bodies recovered from desert rave on 08:42 - Oct 12 with 1826 views | redrickstuhaart |
| 260 bodies recovered from desert rave on 08:41 - Oct 12 by Buhrer |
"When convenient is relevant to the thread" "no matter how uncomfortable" "comment on the matter"
260 plus kids murdered, raped and kidnapped at a dance. Ugh, I just feel sick. |
More than that killed in bombardments and atr risk in sieged hospitals. Both things are appalling. Its not a difficult concept unless you are so wedded to one side's ideology that it causes cognitive dissonance. | | | |
| 260 bodies recovered from desert rave on 08:46 - Oct 12 with 1814 views | GlasgowBlue |
| 260 bodies recovered from desert rave on 08:29 - Oct 12 by redrickstuhaart |
There are many innocents killed in a bombardment and hospitals are being "sieged" and will be out of power and / or water. Comment on the manner in which the west turns a blind eye to war crimes and atrocities when convenient is relevant to the thread, no matter how uncomfortable. |
Then start a thread on it. I’ll give my agreement on the thread. But every thread about the murder of over 1500 Israelis over the weekend has ended up with “yeah but what about”. Usually from banksy.
If he was so concerned by the two Afghans killed by the SAS then why didn’t he start one at the time? Why highjack this thread?
[Post edited 12 Oct 2023 8:54]
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| 260 bodies recovered from desert rave on 08:52 - Oct 12 with 1803 views | GlasgowBlue |
| 260 bodies recovered from desert rave on 08:42 - Oct 12 by redrickstuhaart |
More than that killed in bombardments and atr risk in sieged hospitals. Both things are appalling. Its not a difficult concept unless you are so wedded to one side's ideology that it causes cognitive dissonance. |
If a thread was started on the subject of Palestinian hospitals being bombed, with innocent Palestinian people being killed, not one single poster would jump on the thread and say “yeah but what about the kids slaughtered by Hamas at a music festival”. Not one.
Every fcuking thread about this pogrom has been taken over by whatabouterry and deathstop trumps.
Usually by the same people. Think about that. Then think about why. Then look back at their disgusting respinse to incidents of antisemtism that have been highlighted on here over the years and you will have your answer, [Post edited 12 Oct 2023 8:53]
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| 260 bodies recovered from desert rave on 08:54 - Oct 12 with 1800 views | blueasfook |
| 260 bodies recovered from desert rave on 08:52 - Oct 12 by GlasgowBlue |
If a thread was started on the subject of Palestinian hospitals being bombed, with innocent Palestinian people being killed, not one single poster would jump on the thread and say “yeah but what about the kids slaughtered by Hamas at a music festival”. Not one.
Every fcuking thread about this pogrom has been taken over by whatabouterry and deathstop trumps.
Usually by the same people. Think about that. Then think about why. Then look back at their disgusting respinse to incidents of antisemtism that have been highlighted on here over the years and you will have your answer, [Post edited 12 Oct 2023 8:53]
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It's plain as the nose on your face it's thinly veiled anti-semitism.
Jews=Bad, Palestinians=Good. The legacy of the toxic leadership of Corbyn I am afraid. |  |
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| 260 bodies recovered from desert rave on 09:05 - Oct 12 with 1743 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| 260 bodies recovered from desert rave on 08:46 - Oct 12 by GlasgowBlue |
Then start a thread on it. I’ll give my agreement on the thread. But every thread about the murder of over 1500 Israelis over the weekend has ended up with “yeah but what about”. Usually from banksy.
If he was so concerned by the two Afghans killed by the SAS then why didn’t he start one at the time? Why highjack this thread?
[Post edited 12 Oct 2023 8:54]
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“yeah but what about”.
Shameless. You really have got a hard on for me at the moment haven't you...I have described the actions of Hamas as inhuman and barbaric on multiple occasions but fill your boots. | |
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| 260 bodies recovered from desert rave on 09:16 - Oct 12 with 1692 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| 260 bodies recovered from desert rave on 08:20 - Oct 9 by redrickstuhaart |
Indeed. Its not a matter of "justifying" anything. However, the two parties are pretty much as bad as one another in many respects. The main asymetry is in power and wealth.
Decades of building settlements on other people's land, against all international law, is going to lead to martyrs and desperate, angry, hateful people. The international community has turned a blind eye to Israel's behaviour.
It was not long ago that Israel stormed into palestinian territory with their military.
Often, it is worth considering who has the power to cease a conflict. Russia can end Ukraine war by getting out of Ukraine. I wonder if Israel could begin an end to the ongoing carnage in the middle east by ceasing settlements, and removing those that have been imposed over the last 10 years or so.
None of this means that I think that what has happened ove rthe last couple of days is good, fair or justifiable. It is, though, entirely predictable. [Post edited 9 Oct 2023 8:21]
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This was in response to my first post on this thread and yet you failed to downvote either mine or this one which received 18 unopposed up votes....you have clearly allowed this to become personal, maybe take a break. | |
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| 260 bodies recovered from desert rave on 09:19 - Oct 12 with 1674 views | Buhrer |
| 260 bodies recovered from desert rave on 09:05 - Oct 12 by BanksterDebtSlave |
“yeah but what about”.
Shameless. You really have got a hard on for me at the moment haven't you...I have described the actions of Hamas as inhuman and barbaric on multiple occasions but fill your boots. |
This thread was the way I discovered this terrible savage horror.
Your first post on it is a yeah but what about.....
"It's hard to comprehend why people would act like this.....but perhaps the 3,803 civilian Palestinian dead hasn't helped." | | | |
| 260 bodies recovered from desert rave on 09:39 - Oct 12 with 1629 views | Zapers |
Why gosh? Starmer is clearly not Corbyn, thank God. | | | |
| 260 bodies recovered from desert rave on 09:41 - Oct 12 with 1628 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| 260 bodies recovered from desert rave on 09:19 - Oct 12 by Buhrer |
This thread was the way I discovered this terrible savage horror.
Your first post on it is a yeah but what about.....
"It's hard to comprehend why people would act like this.....but perhaps the 3,803 civilian Palestinian dead hasn't helped." |
It really isn't, as the above post starting "Indeed.... says it seeks to explain how people can end up acting in inhumane ways. Sorry if that concept is a problem for you to comprehend. | |
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| 260 bodies recovered from desert rave on 09:44 - Oct 12 with 1617 views | MattinLondon |
| 260 bodies recovered from desert rave on 09:19 - Oct 12 by Buhrer |
This thread was the way I discovered this terrible savage horror.
Your first post on it is a yeah but what about.....
"It's hard to comprehend why people would act like this.....but perhaps the 3,803 civilian Palestinian dead hasn't helped." |
So do you think that someone trying to understand the root cause of a conflict is either justifying it or attempting to ‘yeah but what about…..?
Like most terrorist attacks - including the IRA - such actions have historical foundations which need to be addressed. Individuals aren’t pre-programmed to hate or kill other people, that comes from years of being conditioned to do so. |  | | |
| 260 bodies recovered from desert rave on 09:52 - Oct 12 with 1584 views | Buhrer |
| 260 bodies recovered from desert rave on 09:44 - Oct 12 by MattinLondon |
So do you think that someone trying to understand the root cause of a conflict is either justifying it or attempting to ‘yeah but what about…..?
Like most terrorist attacks - including the IRA - such actions have historical foundations which need to be addressed. Individuals aren’t pre-programmed to hate or kill other people, that comes from years of being conditioned to do so. |
I think his first post is exactly a yeah but what about.
No one was asking for his repeated justifications. Those threads that got deleted? Ugh... let's do word games. Point scoring ghoulishness.
It is grotesque. | | | |
| 260 bodies recovered from desert rave on 09:53 - Oct 12 with 1584 views | WeWereZombies |
| 260 bodies recovered from desert rave on 09:39 - Oct 12 by Zapers |
Why gosh? Starmer is clearly not Corbyn, thank God. |
That is a very crude take this morning when we hear the following:
'Israel's Energy Minister Israel Katz says the siege of Gaza will not end until Israeli hostages are released.'
See https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-67073970 at 08:22
To echo Glasgow_Blue's derision of my suggestions for diplomacy to be paramount a couple of days ago - do you think that Hamas will take much notice of the pleas of ordinary Palestinians ?
And now the Iranian President is weighing in with accusations of genocide by Israel (see BBC live feed at 09:42) and he will get traction in some quarters because of the tragic turns that already tragic events are taking. |  |
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| 260 bodies recovered from desert rave on 09:53 - Oct 12 with 1584 views | Swansea_Blue |
| 260 bodies recovered from desert rave on 16:35 - Oct 11 by Whos_blue |
Sigh.
I'm just so depressed by this.
This was an opportunity to demonstrate a statesman like solution via a carefully worded statement.
Instead he appears incapacitated, following the antisemitism inquiry, by fear of saying anything even remotely critical of the Israeli state.
We're all agreed that Hamas acted in an abhorrent manner, but surely that cannot excuse the crushing retalitory tactics we're now seeing? |
Depressing, but I think more a case of muddled thinking. Poor though. If you're going on record and the leader of a party, you should at least be all over the brief.
Much like everything else he seems to be trying to find a middle ground that will please the largest number of people, but failing. As you say, it comes across then as a party incapacitated and nervous of committing to any convictions or beliefs. I don't see how they can lead and expect people to follow if they won't, er, lead.
(Usual caveat applies, still better than the Tories, etc.). |  |
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