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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? 19:54 - Nov 2 with 286331 viewsnoggin

Yeah but Owen Jones...
[Post edited 3 Nov 2023 9:05]

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A very long way from M*A*S*H on 16:44 - Nov 19 with 3296 viewsDJR

A very long way from M*A*S*H on 23:54 - Nov 18 by WeWereZombies

The medical staff who have stayed on when many would have fled are exceptional beyond belief, aren't they ?

Edit: Keep to forgetting to change the title of this thread
[Post edited 19 Nov 2023 8:56]


This video from the UN team which entered al-Shiifa hospital emphasises the point you make.

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:07 - Nov 19 with 3237 viewsRob88

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 14:14 - Nov 19 by Rob88

https://stratcomcoe.org/cuploads/pfiles/hamas_human_shields.pdf


Was this in anyone’s way?

Makes sense doesn’t it and exactly what is playing out now.

I’ve said before Israel has responsibilities towards the Palestinian people in all of this but there is no mention of Hamas. Israel could make this stop now but so could Hamas!

10:1 folks 10:1. If this was a media outlet you would all say (rightly) that it had an agenda.

I did misread “purity” you are correct as I was zooming in on a photo and it was pixelated. The point still stands. What has this got to do with socialism and its ideals. Reading their website i don’t even think they consider Hamas terrorists to start.

As for the civilian numbers. Goes without saying every death is a tragedy but I don’t have confidence in the numbers Hamas are reporting. They will be massaged for the political gain of Hamas.
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:19 - Nov 19 with 3201 viewsStokieBlue

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 16:31 - Nov 19 by GlasgowBlue

Just a quick reply whilst waiting for the Mrs. But this stood out for me ,which I find incredibly annoying.

“ I didn't reference anything about the war on terror or comparisons to other conflicts so I am not sure why you are citing them in your reply to me? “

You didn’t. But NthSuffolkBlue did, and it was my reply to him that you jumped on and took one line about “if Hamas are to believed” and stripped the rest of that reply out of all context. So I put the context in.

That’s it from me for the day.


Because the context you've added there is irrelevant. I was talking specifically about your statement "if Hamas are to be believed", comparisons to other conflicts have nothing to do with that statement and you've now conceded that other agencies have roughly the same numbers.

If you want to compare to other conflicts then I've provided a more statistically reasonable way to do it that your simple linear comparison.

Have a good evening.

SB

Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:32 - Nov 19 with 3159 viewsredrickstuhaart

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:07 - Nov 19 by Rob88

Was this in anyone’s way?

Makes sense doesn’t it and exactly what is playing out now.

I’ve said before Israel has responsibilities towards the Palestinian people in all of this but there is no mention of Hamas. Israel could make this stop now but so could Hamas!

10:1 folks 10:1. If this was a media outlet you would all say (rightly) that it had an agenda.

I did misread “purity” you are correct as I was zooming in on a photo and it was pixelated. The point still stands. What has this got to do with socialism and its ideals. Reading their website i don’t even think they consider Hamas terrorists to start.

As for the civilian numbers. Goes without saying every death is a tragedy but I don’t have confidence in the numbers Hamas are reporting. They will be massaged for the political gain of Hamas.


How could Hamas make it stop?
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:38 - Nov 19 with 3137 viewsWeWereZombies

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 12:23 - Nov 19 by giant_stow

Really good article here: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/nov/17/hamas-benjamin-netanyahu-c


Interesting but sadly, already a couple of days out of date by the time it was published. This BBC report of a meeting of Arab and Muslim leaders in Riyadh last weekend:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67417570

The rapprochement between Israel and Saudi Arabia appears to be fizzling out, but worse still is a new improvement of relations between Saudi Arabia and Iran. Add Túrkiye's diplomatic rebuff to Israel and you can see the remaining friends that Netanyahu's administration has (Jordan and Egypt mainly) encountering great difficulty with their own populaces and with other nations in maintaining any useful accord with Israel. Whether they are right or not to continue a dialogue is bye the bye however, the chances of peace that improves either Palestine's or Israel's positions seems to decrease by the day.

Poll: What was in Wes Burns' imaginary cup of tea ?

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? (n/t) on 18:17 - Nov 19 with 3075 viewsRob88

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:19 - Nov 19 by StokieBlue

Because the context you've added there is irrelevant. I was talking specifically about your statement "if Hamas are to be believed", comparisons to other conflicts have nothing to do with that statement and you've now conceded that other agencies have roughly the same numbers.

If you want to compare to other conflicts then I've provided a more statistically reasonable way to do it that your simple linear comparison.

Have a good evening.

SB


[Post edited 19 Nov 2023 18:17]
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? (n/t) on 18:18 - Nov 19 with 3068 viewsRob88

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? (n/t) on 18:17 - Nov 19 by Rob88

[Post edited 19 Nov 2023 18:17]


I thought that was directed to me.

So deleted.
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 18:19 - Nov 19 with 3069 viewsRob88

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:32 - Nov 19 by redrickstuhaart

How could Hamas make it stop?


Release the hostages and lay down their arms.

They also shouldn’t have been the catalyst for it, but that’s an inconvenient truth for most.
[Post edited 19 Nov 2023 18:20]
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 18:22 - Nov 19 with 3057 viewsnoggin

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 18:19 - Nov 19 by Rob88

Release the hostages and lay down their arms.

They also shouldn’t have been the catalyst for it, but that’s an inconvenient truth for most.
[Post edited 19 Nov 2023 18:20]


And then what, for the Palestinian people?

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 18:38 - Nov 19 with 2998 viewsgiant_stow

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 16:15 - Nov 19 by Nthsuffolkblue

Let's flip that around and ask, would they bomb the safe areas they have been told to move to? Would they cut off fuel, water, food, and electricity? Would they continue to ignore the pleas of aid agencies to allow them to provide humanitarian aid?

There is a lot of propaganda going on from both sides as with any conflict but the clear actions of Israel's Government are not those of one that cares about the lives of Palestinian citizens nor even of Israeli hostages.


I'm not trying to defend the actions of the Israeli govt - particularly not what often seems to be revengeful indiscriminate bombing, bombing of safe areas or the cutting off of food, water and fuel. What I am doing is pointing out that this is not a genocidal attack with the goal of eliminating / eradicating the Palestinian people period. I realise things are emotive and everyone has strong feelings, but the language you used above is not helpful, peaceful, accurate or conducive to productive conversation.

Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry. Was Ullaa
Poll: A clasmate tells your son their going to beat him up in the playground after sch

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 18:42 - Nov 19 with 2976 viewsnoggin

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 18:38 - Nov 19 by giant_stow

I'm not trying to defend the actions of the Israeli govt - particularly not what often seems to be revengeful indiscriminate bombing, bombing of safe areas or the cutting off of food, water and fuel. What I am doing is pointing out that this is not a genocidal attack with the goal of eliminating / eradicating the Palestinian people period. I realise things are emotive and everyone has strong feelings, but the language you used above is not helpful, peaceful, accurate or conducive to productive conversation.


What is "revengeful indiscriminate bombing" then?

Poll: Which team thread should I participate in?

1
How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 18:42 - Nov 19 with 2977 viewsgiant_stow

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:38 - Nov 19 by WeWereZombies

Interesting but sadly, already a couple of days out of date by the time it was published. This BBC report of a meeting of Arab and Muslim leaders in Riyadh last weekend:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67417570

The rapprochement between Israel and Saudi Arabia appears to be fizzling out, but worse still is a new improvement of relations between Saudi Arabia and Iran. Add Túrkiye's diplomatic rebuff to Israel and you can see the remaining friends that Netanyahu's administration has (Jordan and Egypt mainly) encountering great difficulty with their own populaces and with other nations in maintaining any useful accord with Israel. Whether they are right or not to continue a dialogue is bye the bye however, the chances of peace that improves either Palestine's or Israel's positions seems to decrease by the day.


Thanks for the link. If they twist the arm of the US, who in turn twist the Israeli Govt's thats not such a bad outcome, although I agree that peace seems far away.

Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry. Was Ullaa
Poll: A clasmate tells your son their going to beat him up in the playground after sch

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 18:43 - Nov 19 with 2968 viewsgiant_stow

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 18:42 - Nov 19 by noggin

What is "revengeful indiscriminate bombing" then?


I don't understand your question.

Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry. Was Ullaa
Poll: A clasmate tells your son their going to beat him up in the playground after sch

0
How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 18:44 - Nov 19 with 2957 viewsnoggin

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 18:43 - Nov 19 by giant_stow

I don't understand your question.


They're your words.

Poll: Which team thread should I participate in?

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 18:47 - Nov 19 with 2929 viewsgiant_stow

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 18:44 - Nov 19 by noggin

They're your words.


Yes I realised that but what's the question fella? Ask one and I'll have a crack.
[Post edited 19 Nov 2023 18:53]

Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry. Was Ullaa
Poll: A clasmate tells your son their going to beat him up in the playground after sch

0
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. on 18:48 - Nov 19 with 2923 viewsWeWereZombies

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 18:19 - Nov 19 by Rob88

Release the hostages and lay down their arms.

They also shouldn’t have been the catalyst for it, but that’s an inconvenient truth for most.
[Post edited 19 Nov 2023 18:20]


The catalyst ? Now there's a word that could lead us down a very deep rabbit hole, deep and dangerous.

A more pertinent statement, in fact a question, is why now ? Ten or fifteen years of an uneasy relationship with Netanyahu's administration could be explained by just running out of patience, but as they do not appear to have a military defence in place to repel the Israeli Defence Force then had they done any planning at all ?

But then we are told that Hamas have no regard for the people they have power over, that they take orders from the Iranian regime. So why have Iran instructed them to conduct an apparent Jihad now ? And is there a military response on the way from them ? Are we just arguing about the starter at the moment and we are in for a very unpleasant surprise when the main course is served ?

Edit: Thread title changed
[Post edited 19 Nov 2023 21:02]

Poll: What was in Wes Burns' imaginary cup of tea ?

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 18:53 - Nov 19 with 2899 viewsnoggin

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 18:47 - Nov 19 by giant_stow

Yes I realised that but what's the question fella? Ask one and I'll have a crack.
[Post edited 19 Nov 2023 18:53]


what is "revengeful indiscriminate bombing, bombing of safe areas or the cutting off of food, water and fuel." if not genocidal?

Poll: Which team thread should I participate in?

1
How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 19:02 - Nov 19 with 2868 viewsgiant_stow

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 18:53 - Nov 19 by noggin

what is "revengeful indiscriminate bombing, bombing of safe areas or the cutting off of food, water and fuel." if not genocidal?


My problem with North Suffolk Blue's wording was the implication that 'Israel' is trying to 'eradicate Palestinians'. That would indeed be genocidal, but that is not what the current Israeli *govt* is doing. I asked for clarification, but NSB appeared to confirm that meaning (maybe in not so many words).

Whether what they *are* doing is genocidal is massive question - I can see why some people think it is, but have a few doubts, particularly given that Hamas does nothing to stop that suffering - if anything, they seem to make it worse. Can two waring entities collaborate in a population's genocide?

Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry. Was Ullaa
Poll: A clasmate tells your son their going to beat him up in the playground after sch

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 19:03 - Nov 19 with 2868 viewsredrickstuhaart

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 18:19 - Nov 19 by Rob88

Release the hostages and lay down their arms.

They also shouldn’t have been the catalyst for it, but that’s an inconvenient truth for most.
[Post edited 19 Nov 2023 18:20]


That wouldnt make it stop would it? Israel will continue to try to eradicate them.

Of course, many palestinians would say that those arms are the only thing between them and more "settlements". Rightly or wrongly, that idea is a powerful one.
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 19:05 - Nov 19 with 2847 viewsredrickstuhaart

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 19:02 - Nov 19 by giant_stow

My problem with North Suffolk Blue's wording was the implication that 'Israel' is trying to 'eradicate Palestinians'. That would indeed be genocidal, but that is not what the current Israeli *govt* is doing. I asked for clarification, but NSB appeared to confirm that meaning (maybe in not so many words).

Whether what they *are* doing is genocidal is massive question - I can see why some people think it is, but have a few doubts, particularly given that Hamas does nothing to stop that suffering - if anything, they seem to make it worse. Can two waring entities collaborate in a population's genocide?


The current israeli government is trying to coral 2m people into an area 10km by 10km, with no water, electricity, food or resources.

That IS genocidal.
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 19:12 - Nov 19 with 2814 viewsgiant_stow

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 19:05 - Nov 19 by redrickstuhaart

The current israeli government is trying to coral 2m people into an area 10km by 10km, with no water, electricity, food or resources.

That IS genocidal.


I'm not to argue with that either way - accepting your statement as truth, its disgusting and wrong. But that's still a long way from 'eradication'.

Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry. Was Ullaa
Poll: A clasmate tells your son their going to beat him up in the playground after sch

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 19:26 - Nov 19 with 2788 viewsredrickstuhaart

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 19:12 - Nov 19 by giant_stow

I'm not to argue with that either way - accepting your statement as truth, its disgusting and wrong. But that's still a long way from 'eradication'.


Israel wish to eradicate the palestinian state/ homeland. That is clear and openly stated.

The 10km thing is not about "accepting the statement as truth". Its from the Israelis. First leave the North and head south. Then clear the big southern city and move west of it (the further order yesterday).
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 19:30 - Nov 19 with 2784 viewsRob88

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 18:22 - Nov 19 by noggin

And then what, for the Palestinian people?


Negotiate a two state solution (which is massively contentious and complicated in itself and would require compromise on both sides no doubt). If necessary, the autonomy of Palestinian territory to be ensured by the UN.
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 19:36 - Nov 19 with 2764 viewsredrickstuhaart

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 19:30 - Nov 19 by Rob88

Negotiate a two state solution (which is massively contentious and complicated in itself and would require compromise on both sides no doubt). If necessary, the autonomy of Palestinian territory to be ensured by the UN.


Israel wont agree a two state solution. And once they pacify Hamas and have control over Gaza, they wont have to.
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 19:37 - Nov 19 with 2761 viewsRob88

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 19:03 - Nov 19 by redrickstuhaart

That wouldnt make it stop would it? Israel will continue to try to eradicate them.

Of course, many palestinians would say that those arms are the only thing between them and more "settlements". Rightly or wrongly, that idea is a powerful one.


That’s bonkers and once again a completely fallacious accusation against the Israelis.

If Israel wanted to eradicate them it could and would have happened a long time ago. Do you not think?

Have you heard of the six day war? If they could do that in six days……
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