| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. 05:58 - Dec 24 with 3455 views | charlie1 |
….. but there will be few teams who will be able to play the way they need to in order to take advantage.
Leeds high press caused us more problems than others, but mainly because the second press of Ampadu, Kamara and Piroe stopped us playing through Morsy and Luongo.
But that’s some serious pace and technical ability in their front six.
We had to try and by-pass the midfield and play it into Hirst, who was very well marshalled and totally outnumbered most of the time, or tried to hit Burns or Davis from distance and Spence and Gray just stepped up and picked off the pass.
We have had, and will continue to have, a lot of success playing that way and I can’t see McKenna abandoning the system because of one game.
Will be interesting to see what his Plan B is though, as there really didn’t seem to be one yesterday. |  | | |  |
| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 06:30 - Dec 24 with 2728 views | bobbyramsey |
There is no plan B only slight variations of plan A.
Sometimes I wish there was a plan B, it would be interesting to see if we could be a bit more solid when required. But as many have already stated, why bother with a Plan B when we sit second in the table, seven points above third place. We won’t be coming up against teams like Leeds too often. |  | | |
| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 06:30 - Dec 24 with 2734 views | fallyblue |
Totally agree with this, although we have played some excellent football and got some great results we are still punching way above our weight. I think when we play the tougher teams like yesterday we should have 3 at the back or lose a 10 and put Taylor in midfield to strengthen the spine of the team | | | |
| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 06:32 - Dec 24 with 2734 views | StevieH |
Agreed.The way we play is no great secret. When people say we’ve been worked out it’s as if everyone’s suddenly realised what we’re up to.
It’s one thing to have ‘worked us out’ but stopping us is quite another.
We came up against a better team yesterday which also contains some very good individual players. However, when we go toe to toe with a lot of teams in this league we have been coming out on top. Kieran is developing and improving this team and he trusts them to follow his systems and patterns of play which, let’s face it, have worked incredibly well.
Our squad is limited, however. They have been fabulous and a joy to watch over the last 18 months but these are new heights for most of them. Many are probably at their performance ceilings performing at the top of the championship and when we come up against very good players they struggle.
This squad is better than many teams in this league and has unity, momentum and belief. Top 2 is still possible.
I know how Man City play, for example, but stopping them is another thing entirely.
Leeds were excellent yesterday. Congratulations to them. We move on [Post edited 24 Dec 2023 7:24]
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| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 08:29 - Dec 24 with 2409 views | bournemouthblue |
| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 06:30 - Dec 24 by bobbyramsey |
There is no plan B only slight variations of plan A.
Sometimes I wish there was a plan B, it would be interesting to see if we could be a bit more solid when required. But as many have already stated, why bother with a Plan B when we sit second in the table, seven points above third place. We won’t be coming up against teams like Leeds too often. |
A plan B is very much going to be needed for the Premier League when that's the level of opposition we are going to face
Not that this is a problem currently but we will need to evolve and become more resolute |  |
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| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 08:53 - Dec 24 with 2281 views | Pinewoodblue |
Our stats suggest we already have a plan B.
We are more cautious away from home. Even after letting 4 in yesterday we still have a positive goal difference and have still conceded more at home than away.
What we clearly didn’t have yesterday was any plan for when we are 3 down at half-time. Did we even have a shot in the second half. Missed most of it as transporting grandkids to panto in Woodbridge. |  |
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| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 08:55 - Dec 24 with 2266 views | GlasgowBlue |
This always happens in the second half of the season. We are no longer a surprise element.
McKenna has been very good in the past at changing the tactics mid game or even tinkering with the team to suit the opposition, but it was very naive of him yesterday to go toe to toe with a far superior team. Even worse to continue with the sane game plan when it obviously wasn’t working. |  |
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| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 09:00 - Dec 24 with 2225 views | FrimleyBlue |
| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 08:53 - Dec 24 by Pinewoodblue |
Our stats suggest we already have a plan B.
We are more cautious away from home. Even after letting 4 in yesterday we still have a positive goal difference and have still conceded more at home than away.
What we clearly didn’t have yesterday was any plan for when we are 3 down at half-time. Did we even have a shot in the second half. Missed most of it as transporting grandkids to panto in Woodbridge. |
We strangely played yesterday like a home game. Nothing at all similar to past away games imo.
Strange strange decision. |  |
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| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 09:03 - Dec 24 with 2205 views | nrb1985 |
| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 08:55 - Dec 24 by GlasgowBlue |
This always happens in the second half of the season. We are no longer a surprise element.
McKenna has been very good in the past at changing the tactics mid game or even tinkering with the team to suit the opposition, but it was very naive of him yesterday to go toe to toe with a far superior team. Even worse to continue with the sane game plan when it obviously wasn’t working. |
Reckless is another word that comes to mind.
Total and utter madness. Leaving shape and personnel unchanged at HT was the final nail in a really bad day at the office.
I hope we approach Boxing Day with a little more caution. | | | |
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| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 09:13 - Dec 24 with 2158 views | Guthrum |
We won't need a Plan B for that situation, as that's both games against Leeds out of the way. Other good teams, like Leicester, will need different preparation. |  |
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| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 09:17 - Dec 24 with 2106 views | GlasgowBlue |
| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 09:03 - Dec 24 by nrb1985 |
Reckless is another word that comes to mind.
Total and utter madness. Leaving shape and personnel unchanged at HT was the final nail in a really bad day at the office.
I hope we approach Boxing Day with a little more caution. |
The trouble now is that Becomes a must win game other wise it’s one or two points from three games and the possibility of a Leeds and Saints just 4 points behind us.
Nobody could have imagined where we would be right now at the start of the season. It’s been incredible. But we are where we are ion merit, and in no small part to the genius of McJenna, so to play so gung ho was daft. I’m reluctant to say reckless as he has soooooo much credit in the bank, but I understand the emotion. | |
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| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 09:18 - Dec 24 with 2103 views | nrb1985 |
| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 09:13 - Dec 24 by Guthrum |
We won't need a Plan B for that situation, as that's both games against Leeds out of the way. Other good teams, like Leicester, will need different preparation. |
I said this yesterday, that I’m not sure there are any real learning points here for anyone given that nobody (Leicester aside), will take us to the cleaners like that this season.
Mine and many others frustration I think is that we were set up like lambs going to the slaughter in a game where a draw would have been a fantastic result.
I just can’t believe someone as brilliant as McKenna set us up to go toe to toe with them. Lunacy. | | | |
| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 09:23 - Dec 24 with 2062 views | nrb1985 |
| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 09:17 - Dec 24 by GlasgowBlue |
The trouble now is that Becomes a must win game other wise it’s one or two points from three games and the possibility of a Leeds and Saints just 4 points behind us.
Nobody could have imagined where we would be right now at the start of the season. It’s been incredible. But we are where we are ion merit, and in no small part to the genius of McJenna, so to play so gung ho was daft. I’m reluctant to say reckless as he has soooooo much credit in the bank, but I understand the emotion. |
It’s another must not lose for me not a must win.
Not that I think we shouldn’t try to win or that we need to play defensively, more that a more cautious set up would aid us on that front rather than trying to have another shoot out with a superior team.
I’d go with a 3 5 1 1 with Wes and Leif as wing backs, Taylor coming in as the extra man in the middle and one of Broadhead or Chaplin behind Hirst. | | | |
| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 09:38 - Dec 24 with 2000 views | Guthrum |
| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 09:18 - Dec 24 by nrb1985 |
I said this yesterday, that I’m not sure there are any real learning points here for anyone given that nobody (Leicester aside), will take us to the cleaners like that this season.
Mine and many others frustration I think is that we were set up like lambs going to the slaughter in a game where a draw would have been a fantastic result.
I just can’t believe someone as brilliant as McKenna set us up to go toe to toe with them. Lunacy. |
I don't think we possess the tools to have gone ultra-defensive. Especially with Donacien injured. Nor the mindset and training. It would likely have been a shambles of a different nature - but similar outcome.
At least we had a couple of goes. Broadhead and Chaplin only narrowly missed scoring, Burns also having a good effort.
I'd rather we tested our usual style of play and got beaten than cowering in a low block we aren't set up for and losing anyway. [Post edited 24 Dec 2023 9:40]
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| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 09:47 - Dec 24 with 1951 views | FrimleyBlue |
| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 09:38 - Dec 24 by Guthrum |
I don't think we possess the tools to have gone ultra-defensive. Especially with Donacien injured. Nor the mindset and training. It would likely have been a shambles of a different nature - but similar outcome.
At least we had a couple of goes. Broadhead and Chaplin only narrowly missed scoring, Burns also having a good effort.
I'd rather we tested our usual style of play and got beaten than cowering in a low block we aren't set up for and losing anyway. [Post edited 24 Dec 2023 9:40]
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We used the tools in the 2nd half.
Allowed leeds the ball. Sat back. When they tried to make something happen we sent them back again.
Should have been the gameplan
Could have played taylor instead of broadhead. Add a bit more steel to the midfield. Etc | |
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| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 09:52 - Dec 24 with 1933 views | Guthrum |
| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 09:47 - Dec 24 by FrimleyBlue |
We used the tools in the 2nd half.
Allowed leeds the ball. Sat back. When they tried to make something happen we sent them back again.
Should have been the gameplan
Could have played taylor instead of broadhead. Add a bit more steel to the midfield. Etc |
Leeds were happy to just mooch about with the ball and stifle anything we tried. Didn't need to make much effort at four goals up. I don't put that down to defensive brilliance on our part. | |
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| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 09:54 - Dec 24 with 1930 views | Herbivore |
| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 09:17 - Dec 24 by GlasgowBlue |
The trouble now is that Becomes a must win game other wise it’s one or two points from three games and the possibility of a Leeds and Saints just 4 points behind us.
Nobody could have imagined where we would be right now at the start of the season. It’s been incredible. But we are where we are ion merit, and in no small part to the genius of McJenna, so to play so gung ho was daft. I’m reluctant to say reckless as he has soooooo much credit in the bank, but I understand the emotion. |
It's not a must win game, ffs. There's nothing to be gained from putting unnecessary pressure on it. It's another game, at home, where we will look to pick up three points. If we do, then great. If we don't, we're at worst 4 points clear of third going into two more favourable looking fixtures. |  |
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| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 09:57 - Dec 24 with 1906 views | nrb1985 |
| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 09:38 - Dec 24 by Guthrum |
I don't think we possess the tools to have gone ultra-defensive. Especially with Donacien injured. Nor the mindset and training. It would likely have been a shambles of a different nature - but similar outcome.
At least we had a couple of goes. Broadhead and Chaplin only narrowly missed scoring, Burns also having a good effort.
I'd rather we tested our usual style of play and got beaten than cowering in a low block we aren't set up for and losing anyway. [Post edited 24 Dec 2023 9:40]
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I don’t think anyone has suggested going ultra defensive by any means and I certainly wouldn’t have put Donacien in.
There is a middle ground though between ultra defensive and Davis spending most of the first half 30 yards inside the opposition half.
And I personally would have rather we tried something else yesterday having seen how “testing our usual style” went in the home match earlier this year. | | | |
| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 09:58 - Dec 24 with 1894 views | nodge_blue |
The high press from other sides has been much more in evidence in recent games. Let's face it we see that every week in the PL. Exceptional teams like Man City can still work the ball out or draw a foul etc. Our defenders just aren't at that level, so we have struggled a bit more recently.
I don't think we need to abandon it though. If we start going too long we just will be back to square one. I think we do mix it up a bit now in the right way. We probably just need some incremental improvement on the players quality.
Or we sit deep ourselves and try and play completely on the counter attack. the second goal yesterday was a result of our own high press. Maybe away to Leeds or such teams we should consider that. |  |
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| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 10:01 - Dec 24 with 1874 views | blueislander |
| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 09:52 - Dec 24 by Guthrum |
Leeds were happy to just mooch about with the ball and stifle anything we tried. Didn't need to make much effort at four goals up. I don't put that down to defensive brilliance on our part. |
This. Leeds didn’t exactly put much attacking effort into the second half because they didn’t need to. | | | |
| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 10:01 - Dec 24 with 1874 views | Herbivore |
| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 09:58 - Dec 24 by nodge_blue |
The high press from other sides has been much more in evidence in recent games. Let's face it we see that every week in the PL. Exceptional teams like Man City can still work the ball out or draw a foul etc. Our defenders just aren't at that level, so we have struggled a bit more recently.
I don't think we need to abandon it though. If we start going too long we just will be back to square one. I think we do mix it up a bit now in the right way. We probably just need some incremental improvement on the players quality.
Or we sit deep ourselves and try and play completely on the counter attack. the second goal yesterday was a result of our own high press. Maybe away to Leeds or such teams we should consider that. |
Struggled a bit recently? We went into yesterday with 4 wins and a draw from our previous 5 games. The one we drew really should have been a win as well. | |
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| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 10:05 - Dec 24 with 1839 views | nodge_blue |
| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 10:01 - Dec 24 by Herbivore |
Struggled a bit recently? We went into yesterday with 4 wins and a draw from our previous 5 games. The one we drew really should have been a win as well. |
I meant against the high press. I think we had a couple of games where we haven't played it out from the back so well and teams have limited us doing that. It looks to me that teams are now saying that's how we can get at Ipswich. High press and put them under pressure. | |
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| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 10:18 - Dec 24 with 1750 views | Herbivore |
| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 10:05 - Dec 24 by nodge_blue |
I meant against the high press. I think we had a couple of games where we haven't played it out from the back so well and teams have limited us doing that. It looks to me that teams are now saying that's how we can get at Ipswich. High press and put them under pressure. |
Coventry also pressed high and we handled them pretty well, Boro play a high press as well. The issue yesterday was more Leeds' press in the second phase than them pressing us high, the counters that led to the first three goals all came from them winning the ball in their own half rather than in our half. The first one won illegally of course, which was frustrating, and even the second he gave Leeds free kicks for less than the slight trip on Leif, but in any case we had to defend both situations better and we didn't. Second goal we had enough players back in the box to deal with the break and simply didn't, third we'd again got players back to defend the break but Leif gets drawn into giving away a soft pen. | |
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| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 10:19 - Dec 24 with 1742 views | Guthrum |
| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 09:57 - Dec 24 by nrb1985 |
I don’t think anyone has suggested going ultra defensive by any means and I certainly wouldn’t have put Donacien in.
There is a middle ground though between ultra defensive and Davis spending most of the first half 30 yards inside the opposition half.
And I personally would have rather we tried something else yesterday having seen how “testing our usual style” went in the home match earlier this year. |
A game we came quite close to getting something from.
Davis doesn't really play any other way. He's an attacker, not a defender. Besides which, I thought we had more problems down the other flank. Clarke is fine in attack, but he doesn't have the pace and agility to handle wingers that good. | |
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| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 10:40 - Dec 24 with 1673 views | Churchman |
| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 09:18 - Dec 24 by nrb1985 |
I said this yesterday, that I’m not sure there are any real learning points here for anyone given that nobody (Leicester aside), will take us to the cleaners like that this season.
Mine and many others frustration I think is that we were set up like lambs going to the slaughter in a game where a draw would have been a fantastic result.
I just can’t believe someone as brilliant as McKenna set us up to go toe to toe with them. Lunacy. |
Before yesterday Leeds were ten points behind us. They’d counter attacked well at PR but we’re still hanging on for a good chunk of the second half.
There is nothing wrong with playing our normal game against them. Our normal game has yielded over 50 points before Christmas. The team has belief and ability. So it didn’t work yesterday. Leeds played well, we didn’t. There’s nothing more to it than that.
This bigging up of Leeds, Saints and Leicester is for me OTT. If they were that great they’d be in the PL or at the very least miles ahead of us now. They might be by season’s end but let’s not forget what has got us to where we are.
By all means swallow the line that we have been lucky, not faced anyone yet, been worked out. Plenty of people will be parroting that. But the table doesn’t lie and neither does our record to date.
McKenna has a way of playing. It’s hard for the players and requires a high level of fitness, understanding/cohesion and skill. Against better teams it isn’t going to work every time, but the better we play McKenna’s way, the more unplayable for many teams we will become.
Does the team need strengthening? Of course. Every team does. We have ageing key midfielders (apart from Taylor) and need better support for Hirst. But aside from just wheeling people in, at the back, I see Baggott emerging and I think Humphreys might get some game time too.
Do we need a ‘plan B’. Nope. We just need to execute plan A better. Last season, plenty of people were coming out with ‘no plan B’, ‘been worked out’ when we went through the winter losing a couple of games and drawing others. With the odd addition and basically staying with the method of playing we then destroyed all before us.
The opposition is far stronger this year so I doubt we will repeat that, but I actually think we will get stronger as the season progresses.
We were beaten out of sight yesterday and lost comfortably at WBA. But we’ve had plenty of good performances and results too. While you might learn more from poor results you will learn plenty from all of them. Keep the faith. |  | | |
| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 10:46 - Dec 24 with 1644 views | PrideOfTheEast |
They are just better than us at doing what we try to do. In the same way we’re better than say a Boro, or Coventry. | | | |
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