By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions. We in turn value your personal details in accordance with our Privacy Policy.
Please log in or register. Registered visitors get fewer ads.
Scary how they can literally defend the indefensible, on legal advice, with scant regard for the people being fcked over. When people end up committing suicide then it all becomes a whole new level of evil.
Mr Bates vs the Post office on 10:09 - Jan 6 by bournemouthblue
My dad's ex actually ran a small village post office and spotted it happening at the time
I think she'd previously worked in accounts and couldn't quite believe what she was seeing
[Post edited 6 Jan 2024 10:18]
There were so many red flags...
Just the very idea that all of a sudden a load of sub post masters, all of previous good character, suddenly become thieves...
Then you have the accountants who would have seen amounts in suspense accounts. They would know there is no way they can be taken to profit without understanding what thet relate to (you can't magic profit)
The auditors of the shops, I've dealt with dodgy feckers and get a feel for it. Surely you can see these people are just ordinary people...
Those who steal money do so often to feed an addiction (gambling etc.) so ordinary people can get caught up in stuff. But the sudden increase in cases of theft would be a huge red flag that something wasn't right.
The auditors seem to have been no where....and these sums, if there are 900 cases of average £35k (both guesses) then we could have overstated profits of like close to £30m over the years...
Mr Bates vs the Post office on 10:36 - Jan 6 by bluelagos
There were so many red flags...
Just the very idea that all of a sudden a load of sub post masters, all of previous good character, suddenly become thieves...
Then you have the accountants who would have seen amounts in suspense accounts. They would know there is no way they can be taken to profit without understanding what thet relate to (you can't magic profit)
The auditors of the shops, I've dealt with dodgy feckers and get a feel for it. Surely you can see these people are just ordinary people...
Those who steal money do so often to feed an addiction (gambling etc.) so ordinary people can get caught up in stuff. But the sudden increase in cases of theft would be a huge red flag that something wasn't right.
The auditors seem to have been no where....and these sums, if there are 900 cases of average £35k (both guesses) then we could have overstated profits of like close to £30m over the years...
Suspect there's a shed load more to come out tbh
The close-up of the computer’s screen shown during Michael Rudd’s…(? the SPM union man) visit to Fujitsu, showed currency being traded by the remote accessor whilst secretly on that SPM’s terminal via Horizon. The implication was that operators were illicitly trading with those SPM’s money. Only losses showed up, never profits …
I wonder if that was something the TV production deliberately dropped in because it was thought a possibility, but it’s not been made more of because of lack of evidence?
Mr Bates vs the Post office on 10:36 - Jan 6 by bluelagos
There were so many red flags...
Just the very idea that all of a sudden a load of sub post masters, all of previous good character, suddenly become thieves...
Then you have the accountants who would have seen amounts in suspense accounts. They would know there is no way they can be taken to profit without understanding what thet relate to (you can't magic profit)
The auditors of the shops, I've dealt with dodgy feckers and get a feel for it. Surely you can see these people are just ordinary people...
Those who steal money do so often to feed an addiction (gambling etc.) so ordinary people can get caught up in stuff. But the sudden increase in cases of theft would be a huge red flag that something wasn't right.
The auditors seem to have been no where....and these sums, if there are 900 cases of average £35k (both guesses) then we could have overstated profits of like close to £30m over the years...
Suspect there's a shed load more to come out tbh
Christ, have just remembered I have POL shares, the minimum uptake when we were all invited…
Absolutely horrified, devastated to think my annual dividend has probably incorporated false “profits” which actually belonged to SPMs. Big donation to their fund coming up …
Mr Bates vs the Post office on 11:37 - Jan 6 by Ryorry
Christ, have just remembered I have POL shares, the minimum uptake when we were all invited…
Absolutely horrified, devastated to think my annual dividend has probably incorporated false “profits” which actually belonged to SPMs. Big donation to their fund coming up …
Royal Mail and the Post office are separate companies. So think your conscience is clear.
Mr Bates vs the Post office on 10:36 - Jan 6 by bluelagos
There were so many red flags...
Just the very idea that all of a sudden a load of sub post masters, all of previous good character, suddenly become thieves...
Then you have the accountants who would have seen amounts in suspense accounts. They would know there is no way they can be taken to profit without understanding what thet relate to (you can't magic profit)
The auditors of the shops, I've dealt with dodgy feckers and get a feel for it. Surely you can see these people are just ordinary people...
Those who steal money do so often to feed an addiction (gambling etc.) so ordinary people can get caught up in stuff. But the sudden increase in cases of theft would be a huge red flag that something wasn't right.
The auditors seem to have been no where....and these sums, if there are 900 cases of average £35k (both guesses) then we could have overstated profits of like close to £30m over the years...
Suspect there's a shed load more to come out tbh
Worth reading some of Huw o's follow-up comments too -
Mr Bates vs the Post office on 09:12 - Jan 7 by Ryorry
Worth reading some of Huw o's follow-up comments too -
Not read the tweetor thread but to be fair to Mr Keegan, the original story in the Sunday Times (last year?) was subject to a complaint to the press regulator and Mr Keegan won.
So whilst he was at Fujitsu I don't think he was personally implicated.
Mr Bates vs the Post office on 11:20 - Jan 7 by bluelagos
Not read the tweetor thread but to be fair to Mr Keegan, the original story in the Sunday Times (last year?) was subject to a complaint to the press regulator and Mr Keegan won.
So whilst he was at Fujitsu I don't think he was personally implicated.
Thanks for the update. The other tweets in the thread still worth reading though.
It's good that it's finally getting some proper media attention and something looks to be in motion do something about it but it's a bit sad that it took a TV dramatisation of it to set those wheels in motion.
Mr Bates vs the Post office on 10:21 - Jan 6 by bluelagos
Have worked in parts of the world where there literally was no functional legal system. Liberia was coming off the back of a civil war and there was nowhere for anyone to turn to if confronted with an issue.
As such, vigilantes ruled the day which literally could mean public killings for thieves. Lynching corner was on my route to work and half a dozen times (in a year) a dead body was displayed for all to see.
Think it's one reason am so anti vigilante action knowing the lack of process can result in ordinary and innocent people facing terrible consequences.
But just as frustrating is seeing those guilty of xyz facing no consequences. The impunity of those in positions of power is particularly galling.
So what of the people who pushed for prosecutions? What if they were just following company guidelines? What about those who gave evidence in court that money was stolen...one presumes they thought it had been?
The PO has been so slow to address this, all the while senior execs no doubt creaming it in. IT bods fcked up, accountants fcked up, those who took people to court fcked up, those over seeing the organisation fcked up.
And not one person held to account...the police seemingly shamed into investigating now? They've done sfa previously from what I can see.
And then you get cnits like Priti Patel jumping on the bandwagon...like when has she ever done fck all to help ordinary victims of miscarriages of justice? As home secretary her tongue was so far up the arses of the police it was embarrassing.
But of a rant but fck em all...and thank christ the poor post office workers can hold their heads high and state they did nothing wrong...nothing, not a thing. Maybe am a bit triggered knowing how it feels to have ignorant w@nkers pointing the finger but boy can they shove a finger back at them now.
And all power to them for that.
Anybody that has faced the state knows where you are coming from and why it makes sense to doubt everything.
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
See also the contaminated blood scandal - 50 years later still no full compensation scheme in place. C units know full well the longer they can drag it out the less money it costs.
It's good that it's finally getting some proper media attention and something looks to be in motion do something about it but it's a bit sad that it took a TV dramatisation of it to set those wheels in motion.
Absolutely this. It is the Society of the Spectacle writ large.
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Mr Bates vs the Post office on 20:16 - Jan 7 by LeoMuff
See also the contaminated blood scandal - 50 years later still no full compensation scheme in place. C units know full well the longer they can drag it out the less money it costs.
You fkin cynic, have some pride!! Rule Britannia et.
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Anybody that has faced the state knows where you are coming from and why it makes sense to doubt everything.
Whatever happened to the ‘conflict of interests’ register that MPs are supposed to adhere to, I wonder …
As someone else on that Twitter thread said - “I find it remarkable that in a country of 65m ppl, there is such a small inter-related pool of people dominating life”.
Mr Bates vs the Post office on 20:37 - Jan 7 by Ryorry
Whatever happened to the ‘conflict of interests’ register that MPs are supposed to adhere to, I wonder …
As someone else on that Twitter thread said - “I find it remarkable that in a country of 65m ppl, there is such a small inter-related pool of people dominating life”.
A little bit 6th form but fck it....
The first world's got greedy, we're consuming it all The third world's got hunger and military control This unequal balance is a master plan One gets rich from the other's land
They've got it all worked out - and we give our consent
They've got it all worked out for Central America They've got it all worked out for Africa And in our naivety we believe myths and overconsume And give them our consent Dying in the shadow of the USA "Let them eat bullsh1t, make the land pay" Make a fast deal with the local elite Then substitute cash-crops where once grew wheat Build a cycle of dependence on a starvation-diet With food as a weapon, workers stay quiet
And multinational names have blood on their brands From taking an interest in misused lands Del Monte, Tate & Lyle, Ralston Purina Coca-Cola, RTZ, and Unilever All packaging lifestyles for the glamorous west Expand the company, exploit the rest
We are not isolated by distance But by greed and our racist history Just a wall's width away Still impossible to see across This space in front on me
It's we who write this history We who guard the money-tree We support the companies We stole the colonies
And when the system starts to crack We'll have to ready to give it all back
See the space which lies between the rich and the poor How the space increases as we keep on taking more Keeping that space between us all Is how the west can keep control... With a mission and a chequebook promising aid Posing for the camera the United Nations man came He talked of control and the terrible drought And the way that the west would bail them out They he stopped smiling and talked conditions Of mutual aid; of American wishes Sending in aid with sewn-on strings If they won't buy arms - then it's pulled back in Feeding the world American style Col Sanders has an empire behind his smile Back up the investments with a military regime Then cleverly say: "It's to keep the world free!" But the multinational myths are beginning to fall The poor don't want aid, they want control And if we really want to see the Third World eat We've got to see through the wraping on the high street Past barriers of culture that dictate our lives We're busy consuming as the other half dies And the answer's not a question on charity - Not whilst profit's still the top priority - So let the glossy shop-fronts know what to expect And you Bosses of Companies... And the cycle of hungry children Will keep on going round Until we burn the multinationals to the ground
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Bit sad that it takes a TV drama to get the public interested in a scandal nearly two decades in the making - and shows gross failure of government by ministers of all three parties.
One of the pitiful things that illustrates just how awful the UK has become is that so many inept people were given honours for gross failure - even the woman in charge of the Post Office and Ed Davey - whilst many of the sub postmasters remain convicted felons. And Mr Bates is still Mr Bates.
The most shocking thing of all is not dishonesty in an institution overseen by Parliament - but the predatory nature of our legal system that gorges itself on the misfortune of innocent people.
Mr Bates vs the Post office on 20:37 - Jan 7 by Ryorry
Whatever happened to the ‘conflict of interests’ register that MPs are supposed to adhere to, I wonder …
As someone else on that Twitter thread said - “I find it remarkable that in a country of 65m ppl, there is such a small inter-related pool of people dominating life”.
I don't think Infosys and Fujitsu having ties is a big deal - they are two fairly big IT companies, and it's fairly routine they'd be involved with each other in some form or another.
That said, Fujitsu seems to have had little to no punishment for their involvement in this whole mess.
Outsourcing IT projects for companies the size of Post Office, NHS etc. is such a waste of time. They'll inevitably go wildly over budget and won't deliver. They should just build their own teams.
Mr Bates vs the Post office on 08:31 - Jan 8 by DanTheMan
I don't think Infosys and Fujitsu having ties is a big deal - they are two fairly big IT companies, and it's fairly routine they'd be involved with each other in some form or another.
That said, Fujitsu seems to have had little to no punishment for their involvement in this whole mess.
Outsourcing IT projects for companies the size of Post Office, NHS etc. is such a waste of time. They'll inevitably go wildly over budget and won't deliver. They should just build their own teams.
Accept what you say about the 2 companies' involvement with each other as standard, but it does raise questions about the cover-up - Sunak only deciding to start addressing the issue after the injustices suffered by the SPMs went viral following the ITV drama.
It's because the public sector is no different to the private sector, there isn't any accountability at a leadership/group level
The PO scandal started in 1999 how many Gov's since Blair's in 99 have had a chance to fix this? Public sector, no accountability at a leadership/group level
Ed Davey, moaning about this government but he had the chance to sort this out when he was in government - no accountability.
You see the same in other public/Gov areas like the NHS. Look at the contaminated blood scandal. You can argue governments from the 70s onwards are responsible but they also made those decision based on professional guidance from people in the NHS. At least 3000 people have died as result, how many of those gov & NHS professionals are in prison because of that corporate manslaughter - none. No accountability at a group level.
Andy Burnham moans about governments not paying compensation re the blood scandal and corporate manslaughter, but he was a forking health minister when red flags started to be waved and he has been quoting as saying 'I thought something was wrong'. FFS if you thought something was wrong when the health minister why didn't you do something about it - no accountability.
Lucy Letby is sent to prision for killing children (and so she should) but the Shrewsbury & Telford and East Kent NHS Trust scandals killed more children and who went to prison for those? None - no accountability at a group level
The Legal system is also fcked in this Country. When Jo Hamilton's (PO scandal) conviction was quashed the judge said 'not only was she wrongfully convicted, but the conviction was an affront to justic'. So what about the judge in her original case? The judge's job is to make sure cases follow justice. That judge should lose their job, pension etc, but they won't because the legal system is above the law. I bet the public enquiry won't identify any failings in the legal system, as I'm sure the enquiry is being run by a judge and the legal system - gamekeeper and poacher.
The public sector is also too intertwined with the tapestry of paraliament. Not sure how you break it, but you have Ed Davey believing the PO, Gillian Keegan's husband being CE at Fujitsu (the company supplying huge public sector contracts). Alice Perkins who was chairman of the PO when the scandal really started to get publicity and washed it under the carpet and her husband is.. Jack Straw
4
Mr Bates vs the Post office on 10:03 - Jan 8 with 1768 views
Bit sad that it takes a TV drama to get the public interested in a scandal nearly two decades in the making - and shows gross failure of government by ministers of all three parties.
One of the pitiful things that illustrates just how awful the UK has become is that so many inept people were given honours for gross failure - even the woman in charge of the Post Office and Ed Davey - whilst many of the sub postmasters remain convicted felons. And Mr Bates is still Mr Bates.
The most shocking thing of all is not dishonesty in an institution overseen by Parliament - but the predatory nature of our legal system that gorges itself on the misfortune of innocent people.
Alan Bates has been offered an OBE but turned it down in protest at Paula Vennels having a CBE for her services to the post office.
Mr Bates vs the Post office on 09:23 - Jan 8 by Ryorry
Accept what you say about the 2 companies' involvement with each other as standard, but it does raise questions about the cover-up - Sunak only deciding to start addressing the issue after the injustices suffered by the SPMs went viral following the ITV drama.
I did wonder why it's suddenly become a top priority for politicians given there was extensive coverage of it in the news for several weeks.
If anyone is interested in what went wrong from a technical perspective, there's a good run down here, explained in a way that you shouldn't need any prior knowledge of computing to understand.
What's astounding to me is how this wasn't spotted for so long in the first place, it's absolutely basic stuff when handling money.
Mr Bates vs the Post office on 11:08 - Jan 8 by DanTheMan
If anyone is interested in what went wrong from a technical perspective, there's a good run down here, explained in a way that you shouldn't need any prior knowledge of computing to understand.
What's astounding to me is how this wasn't spotted for so long in the first place, it's absolutely basic stuff when handling money.
To me, the biggest failure was the POs unerring faith in Horizon and their insistence that the system was reporting correctly. The whole ethos of "the system is correct" was wrong. I work with Financial systems myself and if something goes wrong, the knee jerk reaction is NOT to suspect fraud but investigate the trail and see where the discrepancy is. The PO's default was to go after the Postmaster and accuse them of fraud.
"A+++++", "Great Comms, would recommend", "Thank you, the 12 inch black mamba is just perfect" - Ebay.
I've not watched yet as been away, but have followed case via the BBC podcast and it really is one of the most shocking situations you can think of. The hiding the fact that lots of people were having the same issue, and going after people who were pillars of the community when they knew damn well it was their systems failing is just beyond the pale.
It sounds as though this is helping shine a light on it, and people will be punished now - but it's far too late for all the people involved, especially those no longer with us - justice delayed is justice denied
Mr Bates vs the Post office on 12:13 - Jan 8 by itfcjoe
I've not watched yet as been away, but have followed case via the BBC podcast and it really is one of the most shocking situations you can think of. The hiding the fact that lots of people were having the same issue, and going after people who were pillars of the community when they knew damn well it was their systems failing is just beyond the pale.
It sounds as though this is helping shine a light on it, and people will be punished now - but it's far too late for all the people involved, especially those no longer with us - justice delayed is justice denied
So looking forward there's three aspects.
1. Quashing all the convictions and giving people back their good name. 2. Suitable compensation 3. Holding those who messed up to account.
The first one I think they'll get right. Might take a while (does it ever) but there is some momentum here.
Second one - not convinced. How do you compensate someone for their tarnished reputation, for the years where they didn't run a business, for time in jail. Look at the compensation for Windrush victims - they are making a right balls up. Or the blood scandal? They'll balls it up cos they are incompetent or just trying to save money? Who knows but we are sh1t at this as a country.
Third one - lols. The idea that there are going to be people in jail (which is the only form of true justice) - for every one of them who lied under oath, who pushed for prosecutions knowing the system had question marks over it...yeah right. They might do a corporate prosecution but that's about it (for me)
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
