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Scary how they can literally defend the indefensible, on legal advice, with scant regard for the people being fcked over. When people end up committing suicide then it all becomes a whole new level of evil.
Mr Bates vs the Post office on 22:34 - Jan 4 by MattinLondon
Before this scandal was known I walked into my then local newsagent (which doubled up as a post office) and the fella who served me was on the front page of the Evening Star in connection with stealing from the Post Office. Think he had been charged by the police and he looked like a broken man.
I remember him as being a friendly and helpful man. I was too cowardly to strike up a conversation with him despite him being at that newsagents for some time. Hope everything worked out for him.
I think I know where you mean and I thought the same when he was accused, that it seemed remarkably out of character having used that Post Office over a number of years, although having moved out of the area by the time of the charges.
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Mr Bates vs the Post office on 22:54 - Jan 4 with 3788 views
Mr Bates vs the Post office on 21:23 - Jan 4 by WD19
Ed Davey was in attack mode today, raging at the government for not hurrying up compensation.
Conveniently overlooking the fact that he himself was minister responsible for the post office at the time (as part of the coalition) and refused to meet Mr Bates.
One of life’s great mysteries why the Liberal Democrat’s can’t source a halfway competent leader. Should be a great gig for someone right now.
I need to watch the series but the stories coming from the postmasters over the last couple of years have been heartbreaking. It's an enormous scandal that needs rectifying where it can.
With regard to the Lib Dems, I asked Ed Davey during his leadership campaign how as yet another middle class white guy he was going to cut through. As I feared, he's failed miserably to do it. I left the LDs recently because the focus needs to be on getting rid of this government and the national party just doesn't seem to be at the races.
[Post edited 5 Jan 2024 7:47]
It's 106 miles to Portman Road, we've got a full tank of gas, half a round of Port Salut, it's dark... and we're wearing blue tinted sunglasses.
Mr Bates vs the Post office on 20:20 - Jan 4 by factual_blue
I think Ian Hislop gives the credit to Computer Weekly, who first publicised the story in 2008/9
Yes, Computer Weekly confirmed by the documentary as having been the first to publish the story - and that was after refraining from doing so for a year, because they were understandably concerned about possible legal repercussions.
It's utter disgraceful, firstly that the IT was so inept and secondly, and more importantly, that the post office forced through prosecutions when it was abundently clear to them that there were serious doubts about Horizon.
Computer Weekly and Private Eye deserve a lot of credit here, the rest of the media who ignored it for a long time rather less. Whereas Paula Vennels is a crook who should be in prison alongside Michelle Mone.
Mr Bates vs the Post office on 21:23 - Jan 4 by WD19
Ed Davey was in attack mode today, raging at the government for not hurrying up compensation.
Conveniently overlooking the fact that he himself was minister responsible for the post office at the time (as part of the coalition) and refused to meet Mr Bates.
One of life’s great mysteries why the Liberal Democrat’s can’t source a halfway competent leader. Should be a great gig for someone right now.
It doesn’t appear to be a problem unique to the LDs. The only leader I’ve had any respect for, for a long time now, is Caroline Lucas. (Sorry, gone off track a bit).
Mr Bates vs the Post office on 22:09 - Jan 4 by DerryfromBury
Just now watching the final episode. £48m legal fees, the mind boggles. With regard to that piece of scum Paula Vennells they should take away her CBE and award it to Alan Bates on behalf of all the postmasters affected.
I don't know if its likely but, wouldn't it be justice for some of those responsible to spend time in prison themselves.
As for the programme, brilliant drama, congrats to all concerned.
Alan Bates has been offered an OBE but he has refused to accept it while Vennells still has her CBE. Hopefully, the airing of this program will bring about some action.
"A+++++", "Great Comms, would recommend", "Thank you, the 12 inch black mamba is just perfect" - Ebay.
Mr Bates vs the Post office on 18:38 - Jan 4 by cbower
Well worth watching. Another embarrassing fook-up. It amazes me that our government hasn't simply compensated everyone conerned in full, including repaying lost income. That the cause is still being fought is a further indictment of these charlatans in government.
The compensation payments have hardly been handled well either. A lot of the recipients have ended up with large tax liabilities as a result.
It's another one of those things to add to the list of public debacles where the people responsible should be in prison, but aren't and probably never will be.
[Post edited 5 Jan 2024 9:06]
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Mr Bates vs the Post office on 09:22 - Jan 5 with 3536 views
It's another one of those things to add to the list of public debacles where the people responsible should be in prison, but aren't and probably never will be.
[Post edited 5 Jan 2024 9:06]
This is worth a watch as well.
While the compensation drags on, they're lining their pockets
A wider issue should also be the question - how on earth were Post Office Ltd. able to get away with bringing private prosecutions? The level of evidence required by the DPP to bring criminal prosecutions is stringent. POL must have known even back in 2003 that they didn't actually have anything like the evidence required to go ahead on that basis in most cases.
They then proceeded to illegally search many SPM's homes, bully, threaten & blackmail them into accepting supposedly 'lesser' charges of false accounting instead of theft, all the while knowing there was zero evidence on which to press any such charges.
3,500 SPMs were wrongly accused. Only 550 came forard for the group action - what's happened to the rest of them? Too intimidated or publicity shy to come forward till now, when maybe more will as a result of these TV programmes?
Another question not answered by either the drama or the docu were - why, so far, have only 93 of the hundreds wrongly convicted been exonerated? If I were in charge of that govt. dept. I'd have 50 people working on that alone & have every case looked at & cleared within 2 weeks.
Mr Bates vs the Post office on 10:31 - Jan 5 by Ryorry
A wider issue should also be the question - how on earth were Post Office Ltd. able to get away with bringing private prosecutions? The level of evidence required by the DPP to bring criminal prosecutions is stringent. POL must have known even back in 2003 that they didn't actually have anything like the evidence required to go ahead on that basis in most cases.
They then proceeded to illegally search many SPM's homes, bully, threaten & blackmail them into accepting supposedly 'lesser' charges of false accounting instead of theft, all the while knowing there was zero evidence on which to press any such charges.
3,500 SPMs were wrongly accused. Only 550 came forard for the group action - what's happened to the rest of them? Too intimidated or publicity shy to come forward till now, when maybe more will as a result of these TV programmes?
Another question not answered by either the drama or the docu were - why, so far, have only 93 of the hundreds wrongly convicted been exonerated? If I were in charge of that govt. dept. I'd have 50 people working on that alone & have every case looked at & cleared within 2 weeks.
[Post edited 5 Jan 2024 10:34]
For a conviction to be overturned, the case has to be heard by a court of appeal. It's not a quick process but I agree something could be done to fast-track these cases.
"A+++++", "Great Comms, would recommend", "Thank you, the 12 inch black mamba is just perfect" - Ebay.
Mr Bates vs the Post office on 10:46 - Jan 5 by blueasfook
For a conviction to be overturned, the case has to be heard by a court of appeal. It's not a quick process but I agree something could be done to fast-track these cases.
Ah, thanks for the info.
The entire judicial system including courts is currently in the same kind of crisis* as other UK services atm, due to this wretched govt's. austerity policies, so ... :(
*(Edit) An extra 2 years backlog to where the courts would normally be, from a R4 report I heard earlier this week.
Mr Bates vs the Post office on 10:31 - Jan 5 by Ryorry
A wider issue should also be the question - how on earth were Post Office Ltd. able to get away with bringing private prosecutions? The level of evidence required by the DPP to bring criminal prosecutions is stringent. POL must have known even back in 2003 that they didn't actually have anything like the evidence required to go ahead on that basis in most cases.
They then proceeded to illegally search many SPM's homes, bully, threaten & blackmail them into accepting supposedly 'lesser' charges of false accounting instead of theft, all the while knowing there was zero evidence on which to press any such charges.
3,500 SPMs were wrongly accused. Only 550 came forard for the group action - what's happened to the rest of them? Too intimidated or publicity shy to come forward till now, when maybe more will as a result of these TV programmes?
Another question not answered by either the drama or the docu were - why, so far, have only 93 of the hundreds wrongly convicted been exonerated? If I were in charge of that govt. dept. I'd have 50 people working on that alone & have every case looked at & cleared within 2 weeks.
[Post edited 5 Jan 2024 10:34]
The Post Office has always been able to bring their own prosecutions. They don't have to comply with the evidential requirements of the CPS. And from my time dealing with Certain Criminal Matters back in the 1980s, they are traditionally extremely zealous in their approach.
But apart from that, paula vennells should rot in the hell she believes in.
To get Vennells stripped of her CBE. Almost 500k signatures now. Was started about 3 years ago but didnt gain much traction, and was stuck at about 500 signatures. Over the last few days, (due to the ITV drama I suspect), it's ramped up massively.
Petition Here if you wish to sign on 13:40 - Jan 5 by blueasfook
To get Vennells stripped of her CBE. Almost 500k signatures now. Was started about 3 years ago but didnt gain much traction, and was stuck at about 500 signatures. Over the last few days, (due to the ITV drama I suspect), it's ramped up massively.
It's another one of those things to add to the list of public debacles where the people responsible should be in prison, but aren't and probably never will be.
[Post edited 5 Jan 2024 9:06]
Indeed, successfully prosecuting Vennells would be complex, expensive & probably unsuccessful so the monety & court time would almost certainly be better spent on quashing the dubious convictions of sub-postmasters. Like many, she seems to be protected by the establishment, especially the Church of England. Yes, her CBE should be withdrawn, but unfortunately this tends to happen only in the event of someone having been convicted of a ciminal offence & her only offence seems to have been being criminally stupid or incompetent.
Mr Bates vs the Post office on 13:32 - Jan 5 by factual_blue
The Post Office has always been able to bring their own prosecutions. They don't have to comply with the evidential requirements of the CPS. And from my time dealing with Certain Criminal Matters back in the 1980s, they are traditionally extremely zealous in their approach.
But apart from that, paula vennells should rot in the hell she believes in.
"Extremely zealous in their approach" - except when it comes to looking at themselves, the lying, thieving, morally bankrupt ****s.
Interesting little add-in to the drama, no doubt one of the fictitious bits that the blurb preceding the drama mentionsed - Paula V post- (sorry) court proceedings, sitting alone in her dog collar in her church, looking stricken, while the judge's comments were voiced over - "SPMs were not only wrongfully convicted, but those convictions were an affront to justice" and later that POL's evasions & denials of the facts re that & Horizons' flaws were "the 21stC equivalent of maintaining that the earth was flat".
Mr Bates vs the Post office on 15:01 - Jan 5 by Radlett_blue
Indeed, successfully prosecuting Vennells would be complex, expensive & probably unsuccessful so the monety & court time would almost certainly be better spent on quashing the dubious convictions of sub-postmasters. Like many, she seems to be protected by the establishment, especially the Church of England. Yes, her CBE should be withdrawn, but unfortunately this tends to happen only in the event of someone having been convicted of a ciminal offence & her only offence seems to have been being criminally stupid or incompetent.
Those convictions weren't just "dubious" - they were "wrongful" and "an affront to justice" - that's a direct quote of the judge who allowed their appeal to go forward.
Mr Bates vs the Post office on 15:07 - Jan 5 by Ryorry
"Extremely zealous in their approach" - except when it comes to looking at themselves, the lying, thieving, morally bankrupt ****s.
Interesting little add-in to the drama, no doubt one of the fictitious bits that the blurb preceding the drama mentionsed - Paula V post- (sorry) court proceedings, sitting alone in her dog collar in her church, looking stricken, while the judge's comments were voiced over - "SPMs were not only wrongfully convicted, but those convictions were an affront to justice" and later that POL's evasions & denials of the facts re that & Horizons' flaws were "the 21stC equivalent of maintaining that the earth was flat".
I am always suspicious of devoutly religious types as many of their beliefs defy logic.
Mr Bates vs the Post office on 10:31 - Jan 5 by Ryorry
A wider issue should also be the question - how on earth were Post Office Ltd. able to get away with bringing private prosecutions? The level of evidence required by the DPP to bring criminal prosecutions is stringent. POL must have known even back in 2003 that they didn't actually have anything like the evidence required to go ahead on that basis in most cases.
They then proceeded to illegally search many SPM's homes, bully, threaten & blackmail them into accepting supposedly 'lesser' charges of false accounting instead of theft, all the while knowing there was zero evidence on which to press any such charges.
3,500 SPMs were wrongly accused. Only 550 came forard for the group action - what's happened to the rest of them? Too intimidated or publicity shy to come forward till now, when maybe more will as a result of these TV programmes?
Another question not answered by either the drama or the docu were - why, so far, have only 93 of the hundreds wrongly convicted been exonerated? If I were in charge of that govt. dept. I'd have 50 people working on that alone & have every case looked at & cleared within 2 weeks.
[Post edited 5 Jan 2024 10:34]
Good to hear the news that a further 50 sub-Postmadter victims have now come forward as a result of the ITV programme/s.
R5l are taking a very keen interest in the story - had as guests somewhere between 17.05-17.30 this pm a couple of the journalists who broke the story, one from Computer Weekly and the other someone who's written a very compelling book about the issue (sorry, can't recall names) & Lee Castleton, the SPM victim from NE Yorkshire, who spoke with eloquent passion & stressed the need for an independent assessment re compensation.
Great that this drama has brought this corporate/government coverup into public domain. Amazing how they dug a hole deeper for themselves as time passed causing more grief and deaths. Toby Jones great as Mr Bates. Bates himself deserves a peerage. Hope PO heads come to court eventually. Perhaps more reality dramas needed to expose corruption? What about Museum collections, eg BM where thousands of artefacts stolen by employees and sold on internet.But no Police action!! People in high places have friends in government so avoid charges...
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Mr Bates vs the Post office on 07:57 - Jan 6 with 3032 views
Hard to come to any other conclusion. Whether the justice system (the police/ CPS/Courts) are actually upto the job of holding the PO to account, you'll forgive my cynicism.
These bastards absolutely deserve to be held to account...
Mr Bates vs the Post office on 07:57 - Jan 6 by bluelagos
Hard to come to any other conclusion. Whether the justice system (the police/ CPS/Courts) are actually upto the job of holding the PO to account, you'll forgive my cynicism.
These bastards absolutely deserve to be held to account...
I watched it, and felt shame.
I don't really think there's a justice system in this country. Sure, it works at some levels, to some extent, but while the rich and powerful get away with it all the time it makes the whole thing meaningless in my opinion.
It's only my personal morals that keep my behaviour in check. If I was on the wrong end of something like this, I'd be finding ways to take my own form of justice - and that's the fault of a failed justice system in a failing country, failed by a kleptomaniac ruling elite who deserve to be on the end of real justice.
Mr Bates vs the Post office on 09:44 - Jan 6 by NthQldITFC
I watched it, and felt shame.
I don't really think there's a justice system in this country. Sure, it works at some levels, to some extent, but while the rich and powerful get away with it all the time it makes the whole thing meaningless in my opinion.
It's only my personal morals that keep my behaviour in check. If I was on the wrong end of something like this, I'd be finding ways to take my own form of justice - and that's the fault of a failed justice system in a failing country, failed by a kleptomaniac ruling elite who deserve to be on the end of real justice.
Have worked in parts of the world where there literally was no functional legal system. Liberia was coming off the back of a civil war and there was nowhere for anyone to turn to if confronted with an issue.
As such, vigilantes ruled the day which literally could mean public killings for thieves. Lynching corner was on my route to work and half a dozen times (in a year) a dead body was displayed for all to see.
Think it's one reason am so anti vigilante action knowing the lack of process can result in ordinary and innocent people facing terrible consequences.
But just as frustrating is seeing those guilty of xyz facing no consequences. The impunity of those in positions of power is particularly galling.
So what of the people who pushed for prosecutions? What if they were just following company guidelines? What about those who gave evidence in court that money was stolen...one presumes they thought it had been?
The PO has been so slow to address this, all the while senior execs no doubt creaming it in. IT bods fcked up, accountants fcked up, those who took people to court fcked up, those over seeing the organisation fcked up.
And not one person held to account...the police seemingly shamed into investigating now? They've done sfa previously from what I can see.
And then you get cnits like Priti Patel jumping on the bandwagon...like when has she ever done fck all to help ordinary victims of miscarriages of justice? As home secretary her tongue was so far up the arses of the police it was embarrassing.
But of a rant but fck em all...and thank christ the poor post office workers can hold their heads high and state they did nothing wrong...nothing, not a thing. Maybe am a bit triggered knowing how it feels to have ignorant w@nkers pointing the finger but boy can they shove a finger back at them now.
Mr Bates vs the Post office on 10:21 - Jan 6 by bluelagos
Have worked in parts of the world where there literally was no functional legal system. Liberia was coming off the back of a civil war and there was nowhere for anyone to turn to if confronted with an issue.
As such, vigilantes ruled the day which literally could mean public killings for thieves. Lynching corner was on my route to work and half a dozen times (in a year) a dead body was displayed for all to see.
Think it's one reason am so anti vigilante action knowing the lack of process can result in ordinary and innocent people facing terrible consequences.
But just as frustrating is seeing those guilty of xyz facing no consequences. The impunity of those in positions of power is particularly galling.
So what of the people who pushed for prosecutions? What if they were just following company guidelines? What about those who gave evidence in court that money was stolen...one presumes they thought it had been?
The PO has been so slow to address this, all the while senior execs no doubt creaming it in. IT bods fcked up, accountants fcked up, those who took people to court fcked up, those over seeing the organisation fcked up.
And not one person held to account...the police seemingly shamed into investigating now? They've done sfa previously from what I can see.
And then you get cnits like Priti Patel jumping on the bandwagon...like when has she ever done fck all to help ordinary victims of miscarriages of justice? As home secretary her tongue was so far up the arses of the police it was embarrassing.
But of a rant but fck em all...and thank christ the poor post office workers can hold their heads high and state they did nothing wrong...nothing, not a thing. Maybe am a bit triggered knowing how it feels to have ignorant w@nkers pointing the finger but boy can they shove a finger back at them now.
And all power to them for that.
At least vigilantism is honest if wrong. What we call a justice system seems often to be both dishonest and wrong.
There's a thin veneer of 'civilisation' which keeps civil society just about together, and when that veneer is being shaved down for profit to thinner and thinner membrane by people in power - well one day it's just going to collapse.
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