| Leif Davis v Cameron Humphreys 11:48 - Jan 8 with 3334 views | itfcjoe |
Seen a few comments about the drop off between the players, and whilst there is a clear drop off, I think Cameron is doing excellently for a player of his experience level and age and would trust him in a big game personally.
I think had the Stoke game been a few days later he'd have had the nod there and been able to cope, but was too close to the QPR game for him physically.
But just a note, on how they compare in their careers...
Age 17 season
Leif Davis - (Morecambe L1)
No first team involvement
Cameron Humphreys - (Ipswich L1)
2 sub appearances in L1 -24 mins with 1 assist
1 FA Cup sub appearance - 5 mins
1 EFL Cup start - 90 mins
Total - 1 start, 3 sub appearances, 1 assist
Age 18 season
Leif Davis - (Leeds Championship)
1 start, 3 sub appearances in league - 91 mins
1 FA Cup Start - 87 minutes
Total - 2 starts, 3 sub appearances
Cameron Humphreys - (Ipswich L1)
10 starts, 7 sub appearances in league - 921 mins with 2 goals and 1 assist
4 starts in FA Cup - 1 goal
4 starts in EFL Trophy - 1 assist
1 start in EFL Cup
Total - 19 starts, 7 sub appearances, 3 goals and 2 assists
Age 19 season
Leif Davis - (Leeds Championship)
3 sub appearances in league - 14 minutes
2 EFL Cup starts - 1 assist
Total - 2 starts, 3 sub appearances, 1 assist
Cameron Humphreys - (Ipswich Championship)* until 6th January
1 start and 1 sub appearance in league, 1 assist
1 start and 3 sub appearnaces in EFL Cup, 1 goal
1 start in FA Cup
Total - 3 starts and 4 sub appearances, 1 sub and 1 goal
Leif then had:
Age 20 season (Leeds Premier League)
2 league sub appearances - 31 mins
1 FA Cup start
1 League Cup start
Age 21 (Bournemouth Championship)
7 starts, 5 sub appearances, 1 assist - 573 mins
2 starts in FA Cup
1 start in EFL Cup
9 startsm 5 sub appearances, 1 assist
Then he signed here for his age 22 season, and now in his age 23 season looks like a PL player worth £15m+
Humphreys looks like he has the technical and physical gifts to play there at LB in this set up, he has some way to go still, but if he can back up Leif through this season, then he is going to be in a really strong position when you look at route LD took to where he is and at what age he did it.
I think the calls for him to be sent out on loan miss what he is gaining here being in and around it at a high level with a generational manager - what will 30 games in League 1 do for him really? |  |
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| Leif Davis v Cameron Humphreys on 11:54 - Jan 8 with 3228 views | tractorboy1978 |
Totally agree. And I also think LB is his route into this team rather than CM. |  | | |
| Leif Davis v Cameron Humphreys on 11:58 - Jan 8 with 3203 views | textbackup |
I must say, I didn’t want to say it, as so many were moaning… but I thought he’s been absolutely fine at LB.
It’s a drop off, of course, but anything Vs Leif is |  |
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| Leif Davis v Cameron Humphreys on 12:01 - Jan 8 with 3146 views | JakeITFC |
I don't really know why, but there seems to have been a tactical approach to overload the right hand side and leave Humphreys in acres of space (first half v QPR and Wimbledon especially) but then the team were just ignoring him as an option.
I can't work out whether we do this in reverse when Davis is a LB and we leave the right handside bare (and are trying to just protect him a bit from an athleticism perspective), but in both games we looked a lot better once we got him involved in the game more. FWIW, I think he's a wonderful player but I worry that he doesn't have the engine/pace to make that role his own in the way that Leif does, although admittedly that's a really tough comparison as Davis is probably top 10 in the country at it right now. |  | | |
| Leif Davis v Cameron Humphreys on 12:06 - Jan 8 with 3072 views | Steve_M |
| Leif Davis v Cameron Humphreys on 12:01 - Jan 8 by JakeITFC |
I don't really know why, but there seems to have been a tactical approach to overload the right hand side and leave Humphreys in acres of space (first half v QPR and Wimbledon especially) but then the team were just ignoring him as an option.
I can't work out whether we do this in reverse when Davis is a LB and we leave the right handside bare (and are trying to just protect him a bit from an athleticism perspective), but in both games we looked a lot better once we got him involved in the game more. FWIW, I think he's a wonderful player but I worry that he doesn't have the engine/pace to make that role his own in the way that Leif does, although admittedly that's a really tough comparison as Davis is probably top 10 in the country at it right now. |
It was really noticeable after half-time how often we looked for an early ball to Humpreys, from Taylor in particular. It suggests McK found some of our first half play a bit ponderous.
I think Humphreys has done ok in both games, very cautious first half against QPR was to be expected but he's been involved in a good amount of attacking play. A bit weak defensively, and got caught a few times on Saturday, but that's to be expected. |  |
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| Leif Davis v Cameron Humphreys on 12:15 - Jan 8 with 2981 views | Kieran_Knows |
| Leif Davis v Cameron Humphreys on 12:06 - Jan 8 by Steve_M |
It was really noticeable after half-time how often we looked for an early ball to Humpreys, from Taylor in particular. It suggests McK found some of our first half play a bit ponderous.
I think Humphreys has done ok in both games, very cautious first half against QPR was to be expected but he's been involved in a good amount of attacking play. A bit weak defensively, and got caught a few times on Saturday, but that's to be expected. |
I think it was late on in the first half on Saturday, but we had a throw in right in front of McKenna in the dug outs, to which the camera panned to McKenna and you could clear as day hear him shouting at Humphreys over the other side of the pitch to get higher. |  |
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| Leif Davis v Cameron Humphreys on 12:16 - Jan 8 with 2965 views | itfcjoe |
| Leif Davis v Cameron Humphreys on 12:06 - Jan 8 by Steve_M |
It was really noticeable after half-time how often we looked for an early ball to Humpreys, from Taylor in particular. It suggests McK found some of our first half play a bit ponderous.
I think Humphreys has done ok in both games, very cautious first half against QPR was to be expected but he's been involved in a good amount of attacking play. A bit weak defensively, and got caught a few times on Saturday, but that's to be expected. |
It was the same v QPR, but the difference after half time was he stopped playing safely and began to push forward when the ball did find it's way out to him.
I think his engine is absolutely fine for the role from Jake's point, but that he may need to be a bit more explosive pace wise but that should come as he works on his physical conditioning - which will happen more here than on loan elsewhere | |
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| Leif Davis v Cameron Humphreys on 12:32 - Jan 8 with 2775 views | Mookamoo |
| Leif Davis v Cameron Humphreys on 11:54 - Jan 8 by tractorboy1978 |
Totally agree. And I also think LB is his route into this team rather than CM. |
Dyer had to do a spell at RB before he was trusted in his preferred position.
Might be the same for Humphries that he needs a few games a LB, in which case he is absolutely fine there. With Taylor and now Travis to accommodate, CM isn't going to happen for him this season |  | | |
| Leif Davis v Cameron Humphreys on 12:33 - Jan 8 with 2741 views | _clive_baker_ |
Abuse? |  | | |
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| Leif Davis v Cameron Humphreys on 12:37 - Jan 8 with 2650 views | soupytwist |
I saw someone on Twitter at half time in the QPR game say that Humphreys was 'out of his depth as right back' or words to that effect.
I don't normally get involved in that kind of thing but felt compelled to reply that he was actually on the left and wasn't out of his depth, he just wasn't Leif Davis.
I think he'd be welcomed as a left sided attacking full back for quite a few of the teams below us in the table. No problem with him filling in for Davis when the latter's unavailable. And would hope that he has a pathway into the team in some capacity. [Post edited 8 Jan 2024 12:38]
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| Leif Davis v Cameron Humphreys on 12:52 - Jan 8 with 2488 views | NthQldITFC |
Yes. He might not have the direct attacking prowess, but he has guile and in both attack and defence his work rate and intelligence are faultless. Can definitely do the job, and his head won't go down if he does get beaten once or twice. |  |
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| Leif Davis v Cameron Humphreys on 12:55 - Jan 8 with 2455 views | textbackup |
| Leif Davis v Cameron Humphreys on 12:15 - Jan 8 by Kieran_Knows |
I think it was late on in the first half on Saturday, but we had a throw in right in front of McKenna in the dug outs, to which the camera panned to McKenna and you could clear as day hear him shouting at Humphreys over the other side of the pitch to get higher. |
Lol heard that too ‘Cam get higher!’ | |
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| Leif Davis v Cameron Humphreys on 12:57 - Jan 8 with 2433 views | Kieran_Knows |
| Leif Davis v Cameron Humphreys on 12:55 - Jan 8 by textbackup |
Lol heard that too ‘Cam get higher!’ |
Ha! I think he was also telling Broadhead to get higher as well, so clearly trying to overload that side of the pitch! | |
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| Leif Davis v Cameron Humphreys on 12:59 - Jan 8 with 2403 views | Basuco |
| Leif Davis v Cameron Humphreys on 12:37 - Jan 8 by soupytwist |
I saw someone on Twitter at half time in the QPR game say that Humphreys was 'out of his depth as right back' or words to that effect.
I don't normally get involved in that kind of thing but felt compelled to reply that he was actually on the left and wasn't out of his depth, he just wasn't Leif Davis.
I think he'd be welcomed as a left sided attacking full back for quite a few of the teams below us in the table. No problem with him filling in for Davis when the latter's unavailable. And would hope that he has a pathway into the team in some capacity. [Post edited 8 Jan 2024 12:38]
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Also, Humphreys was far more attacking in the second half, which is standard tactics, Town do not go all out attack first half every game. |  | | |
| Leif Davis v Cameron Humphreys on 13:04 - Jan 8 with 2363 views | _clive_baker_ |
A challenge he has at the moment is defining where he sees himself longer term positionally, what he stands for as a player and carving our his discipline. I don't think getting experience in other positions will ever harm him, and he's played at left back previously prior to 1st team level, but if he sees his future as a central midfielder then he's going to have his work cut out in the near term to challenge. We've obviously got Morsy, Luongo, Taylor, Ball and now Travis ahead of him. There will inevitably be some changes in the summer, regardless of what division we're in which may help or hinder Cameron's cause. As you say though, he's still very young and certainly doesn't need to be starting 46 games a season at this age, as long as he's confident he's progressing to that.
I would say a loan would be beneficial if its somewhere he'll play regularly in his preferred position. Nothing can replicate being a key component in a senior side, with 3 points on the line and the pressures that brings. I needn't be a whole season, but 20 games and a change of environment, while spending the rest of the season working with KM and the team probably gives him a really good balance for his development.
I really like Humphreys, he was a real blessing last season and did such a good job when called upon for that period. He definitely ran out of steam a bit which was inevitable of a very young lad on heavy winter pitches in a very physically demanding division, but by and large he was excellent. He seems to have his head screwed on too, seems mature beyond his years and strikes you as someone who will keep working hard and improving. | | | |
| Leif Davis v Cameron Humphreys on 13:30 - Jan 8 with 2156 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Leif Davis v Cameron Humphreys on 13:04 - Jan 8 by _clive_baker_ |
A challenge he has at the moment is defining where he sees himself longer term positionally, what he stands for as a player and carving our his discipline. I don't think getting experience in other positions will ever harm him, and he's played at left back previously prior to 1st team level, but if he sees his future as a central midfielder then he's going to have his work cut out in the near term to challenge. We've obviously got Morsy, Luongo, Taylor, Ball and now Travis ahead of him. There will inevitably be some changes in the summer, regardless of what division we're in which may help or hinder Cameron's cause. As you say though, he's still very young and certainly doesn't need to be starting 46 games a season at this age, as long as he's confident he's progressing to that.
I would say a loan would be beneficial if its somewhere he'll play regularly in his preferred position. Nothing can replicate being a key component in a senior side, with 3 points on the line and the pressures that brings. I needn't be a whole season, but 20 games and a change of environment, while spending the rest of the season working with KM and the team probably gives him a really good balance for his development.
I really like Humphreys, he was a real blessing last season and did such a good job when called upon for that period. He definitely ran out of steam a bit which was inevitable of a very young lad on heavy winter pitches in a very physically demanding division, but by and large he was excellent. He seems to have his head screwed on too, seems mature beyond his years and strikes you as someone who will keep working hard and improving. |
Just as important will be where we see him playing longer term. I think his choice of position will be influenced by how quickly he sees a pathway to playing. As Joe is hinting in the OP, he has a chance to develop into our long term replacement for Davis and play week in, week out at LB. It's going to be a real tough ask for him to break into our midfield any time soon. Especially if we keep kicking on. He has the attributes to be excellent in that LB role. He was controlling games from that position in our FA Youth Cup run a couple of years ago. | | | |
| Leif Davis v Cameron Humphreys on 13:33 - Jan 8 with 2130 views | yorkshireblue |
| Leif Davis v Cameron Humphreys on 12:32 - Jan 8 by Mookamoo |
Dyer had to do a spell at RB before he was trusted in his preferred position.
Might be the same for Humphries that he needs a few games a LB, in which case he is absolutely fine there. With Taylor and now Travis to accommodate, CM isn't going to happen for him this season |
Leeds are playing the highly rated Archie Gray ar RB nstead of his prefered central midfield role. |  | | |
| Leif Davis v Cameron Humphreys on 13:49 - Jan 8 with 2011 views | itfcjoe |
| Leif Davis v Cameron Humphreys on 13:30 - Jan 8 by tractorboy1978 |
Just as important will be where we see him playing longer term. I think his choice of position will be influenced by how quickly he sees a pathway to playing. As Joe is hinting in the OP, he has a chance to develop into our long term replacement for Davis and play week in, week out at LB. It's going to be a real tough ask for him to break into our midfield any time soon. Especially if we keep kicking on. He has the attributes to be excellent in that LB role. He was controlling games from that position in our FA Youth Cup run a couple of years ago. |
Yep, the Sheffield United Youth Cup game in particular stuck out - it was a Leif Davis like performance in the way the was able to dictate the whole game from that role.
Paul Cook was training him as a LB initially here too to try and find a way to use him, no doubt Dyer was part of this decision as KD knew him well
Fashions change quickly, but when you see the role someone like Trent Alexander-Arnold is playing at Liverpool, and someone like Zinchenko at Arsenal, they are full backs who can go up and down the line and deliver serious quality, or can step inside to play as a CM. Humphreys has the attributes to do those roles, and feel he is being well managed by KM currently as almost a pet project.
I loved Greg Leigh, but would rather see CH getting the back up LB minutes for our long term future | |
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| Leif Davis v Cameron Humphreys on 13:54 - Jan 8 with 1950 views | _clive_baker_ |
| Leif Davis v Cameron Humphreys on 13:30 - Jan 8 by tractorboy1978 |
Just as important will be where we see him playing longer term. I think his choice of position will be influenced by how quickly he sees a pathway to playing. As Joe is hinting in the OP, he has a chance to develop into our long term replacement for Davis and play week in, week out at LB. It's going to be a real tough ask for him to break into our midfield any time soon. Especially if we keep kicking on. He has the attributes to be excellent in that LB role. He was controlling games from that position in our FA Youth Cup run a couple of years ago. |
Yeah it wouldn't surprise me. I think it was Norwood once in an interview with Dyer waxing lyrical at young Cameron. While JN was playing for the U23's under Dyer and said he was a very natural footballer. Think he said something along the lines of not seeing anyone control the tempo of a game like that from left back.
I always think there's 3 things that need to be true. 1) being technical ability, and that's an area I don't worry at all about with Humphreys. 2) temperament and mentality, the ability to learn and develop tactically, a will to do it and cerebral enough to take on board the instruction and advice. He seems a bright lad in that respect. Finally physicality, that's an area the club will be working him on. I once witnessed youth players lying on their back as someone repeatedly, quite aggressively, threw medicine balls at their stomach. Almost military style. I'm sure its come on since then but the principle remains, he'll get stronger and his running power will improve. Davis is on a similar journey himself, he's made huge strides in that respect vs the player we signed.
Naturally Davis is a bit of a freak of nature apparently. I can't remember the technical term but someone who has worked with him was telling me about his muscular recoil. He reckons he's got some mad elastic recoil in his muscles which makes him so rapid. He can also throw a tennis ball absolutely miles apparently. | | | |
| Leif Davis v Cameron Humphreys on 14:00 - Jan 8 with 1892 views | NthQldITFC |
| Leif Davis v Cameron Humphreys on 13:54 - Jan 8 by _clive_baker_ |
Yeah it wouldn't surprise me. I think it was Norwood once in an interview with Dyer waxing lyrical at young Cameron. While JN was playing for the U23's under Dyer and said he was a very natural footballer. Think he said something along the lines of not seeing anyone control the tempo of a game like that from left back.
I always think there's 3 things that need to be true. 1) being technical ability, and that's an area I don't worry at all about with Humphreys. 2) temperament and mentality, the ability to learn and develop tactically, a will to do it and cerebral enough to take on board the instruction and advice. He seems a bright lad in that respect. Finally physicality, that's an area the club will be working him on. I once witnessed youth players lying on their back as someone repeatedly, quite aggressively, threw medicine balls at their stomach. Almost military style. I'm sure its come on since then but the principle remains, he'll get stronger and his running power will improve. Davis is on a similar journey himself, he's made huge strides in that respect vs the player we signed.
Naturally Davis is a bit of a freak of nature apparently. I can't remember the technical term but someone who has worked with him was telling me about his muscular recoil. He reckons he's got some mad elastic recoil in his muscles which makes him so rapid. He can also throw a tennis ball absolutely miles apparently. |
I'll have to get me one of them for my dog. Perhaps I can borrow him while his calf is mending? | |
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| Leif Davis v Cameron Humphreys on 14:08 - Jan 8 with 1835 views | _clive_baker_ |
| Leif Davis v Cameron Humphreys on 14:00 - Jan 8 by NthQldITFC |
I'll have to get me one of them for my dog. Perhaps I can borrow him while his calf is mending? |
That would be handy, although your dog might not thank you having to travel 48 miles to retrieve the ball. He's exceptional in a snow ball fight as well, so I was told. My friend saw LD launch a snow ball further than he's ever seen a snow ball be launched before, and it was then explained to him about this freakish muscular advantage he's got. Handy in this weather. | | | |
| Leif Davis v Cameron Humphreys on 14:15 - Jan 8 with 1785 views | homer_123 |
| Leif Davis v Cameron Humphreys on 13:33 - Jan 8 by yorkshireblue |
Leeds are playing the highly rated Archie Gray ar RB nstead of his prefered central midfield role. |
A small point here. AG is being played by Leeds at RB not because he isn't trusted to play the CM. He's played there for them a fair few times.
It's more that AG offers way more than their current full back options there, which is why he is playing RB. [Post edited 8 Jan 2024 14:17]
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| Leif Davis v Cameron Humphreys on 14:19 - Jan 8 with 1748 views | textbackup |
| Leif Davis v Cameron Humphreys on 13:54 - Jan 8 by _clive_baker_ |
Yeah it wouldn't surprise me. I think it was Norwood once in an interview with Dyer waxing lyrical at young Cameron. While JN was playing for the U23's under Dyer and said he was a very natural footballer. Think he said something along the lines of not seeing anyone control the tempo of a game like that from left back.
I always think there's 3 things that need to be true. 1) being technical ability, and that's an area I don't worry at all about with Humphreys. 2) temperament and mentality, the ability to learn and develop tactically, a will to do it and cerebral enough to take on board the instruction and advice. He seems a bright lad in that respect. Finally physicality, that's an area the club will be working him on. I once witnessed youth players lying on their back as someone repeatedly, quite aggressively, threw medicine balls at their stomach. Almost military style. I'm sure its come on since then but the principle remains, he'll get stronger and his running power will improve. Davis is on a similar journey himself, he's made huge strides in that respect vs the player we signed.
Naturally Davis is a bit of a freak of nature apparently. I can't remember the technical term but someone who has worked with him was telling me about his muscular recoil. He reckons he's got some mad elastic recoil in his muscles which makes him so rapid. He can also throw a tennis ball absolutely miles apparently. |
Was an away game to Watford I think KD was referring to, said his game at LB was incredible | |
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| Leif Davis v Cameron Humphreys on 14:37 - Jan 8 with 1663 views | HalifaxBlue |
It's not any lack of quality on Cam's part that makes the drop-off problematic - it is that the structures of the team are built around Leif's tendencies and skillsets, which differ significantly from Humphreys. Time in the role can help alleviate this. But it's also something that is not going to be reflected in individual statistical comparisons.
The knock-on effect of Leif not being there to stretch the pitch and pin defenders is that there is far less space for others to operate in, particularly Broady (or whoever else is in that left-sided 10 role) and Luongo. |  |
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| Leif Davis v Cameron Humphreys on 16:20 - Jan 8 with 1399 views | bournemouthblue |
| Leif Davis v Cameron Humphreys on 12:59 - Jan 8 by Basuco |
Also, Humphreys was far more attacking in the second half, which is standard tactics, Town do not go all out attack first half every game. |
Humphreys will be better when space opens up and he gets free to do damage, he has a cracking left foot
Defensively, he worries me, not because he is doing anything wrong, he is just a young midfielder playing left back and not the most physical one at that
I'd prefer Clarke or Williams there defensively but going forward, he's alright, he doesn't have the running power of Leif but very few left backs will
I would say that 70% of the teams in the Championship, we will probably get away with it
Less so against the sides with better wingers, Sunderland being one and Leicester obviously the other in the short term |  |
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