| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... 17:55 - Jan 9 with 9453 views | NthQldITFC |
...if there was a slim chance that it would give your kids a bit of hope for the future?
Would you accept that it was morally reprehensible to travel multiple times per year by aircraft for leisure activities?
https://www.theguardian.com/en |  |
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| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 13:17 - Jan 10 with 1550 views | Buhrer |
As a kid I had hope, I believed in our leaders and efforts to manage conservation rather than consumption. As an adult its quite clear our masters are going to rape the world to death, and there is nothing I can do about it. I would accept that any other positioning of blame, particularly using people's children, as morally reprehensible.
Yes, I will be taking as many holidays, weekend breaks, domestic, international, bucket list, as I possibly can. Its the only hope left. Plus the kids love them. |  | | |
| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 13:22 - Jan 10 with 1531 views | itfcjoe |
No, because I mostly holiday in the UK and there are people flying jets all over the world almost weekly that my 1-2 trips a year isn't going to effect things in anyway compared to them - and I need my car to be the size it is for the kids to have a present let alone the future |  |
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| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 13:30 - Jan 10 with 1518 views | itfcjoe |
| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 20:25 - Jan 9 by dickie |
Capitalism, consumerism, planned obsolescence... How can the human race make the necessary changes when our goal as a species is growth, continual annual profit margin increases and power? The only way out of the climate crisis I can see is worldwide systemic change away from the capitalist system (which has worked remarkably well for most of the human race for so long). Won't/probably can't happen though. |
I was a reading a George Orwell book/essay whilst away this Xmas (The lion and the unicorn) and even then he talks about capitalism and consumerism, and the lack of a planned economy and it is all still so relevant today - and was written during the second world war | |
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| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 13:40 - Jan 10 with 1483 views | lowhouseblue |
| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 13:22 - Jan 10 by itfcjoe |
No, because I mostly holiday in the UK and there are people flying jets all over the world almost weekly that my 1-2 trips a year isn't going to effect things in anyway compared to them - and I need my car to be the size it is for the kids to have a present let alone the future |
what would you do if flying and driving were significantly more expensive to reflect the damage that their emissions do? |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 13:44 - Jan 10 with 1470 views | NthQldITFC |
| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 13:17 - Jan 10 by Buhrer |
As a kid I had hope, I believed in our leaders and efforts to manage conservation rather than consumption. As an adult its quite clear our masters are going to rape the world to death, and there is nothing I can do about it. I would accept that any other positioning of blame, particularly using people's children, as morally reprehensible.
Yes, I will be taking as many holidays, weekend breaks, domestic, international, bucket list, as I possibly can. Its the only hope left. Plus the kids love them. |
Perhaps we can change our 'masters'?
I think part of the problem is that a lot of people still tend to think of the thing as some sort of Hollywood movie where Bruce Willis will come along and save everyone while we watch from the comfort of our armchairs. That seems to be largely how we're wired now.
What I can never personally work out is how many of us are like that, and how many have just given up and want to metaphorically 'go out' comfortable.
Either way, there's still hope of minimising the damage if we would actually face up to the prospect of a low energy use way of life.
I post stuff like this periodically in the miniscule hope of a butterfly effect on the human race's psyche - not blaming anyone specifically, or referring to our children's futures to make people feel bad - just in the hope of stirring up a bit of resistance from a lethargic, moribund world society. | |
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| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 13:47 - Jan 10 with 1435 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 21:08 - Jan 9 by BlueBadger |
I heard that one of your sons was an apprentice designer who helped with the project. [Post edited 9 Jan 2024 21:08]
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Slartifactualfast worked on the fjords apparently... |  |
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| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 13:49 - Jan 10 with 1426 views | whymark4lazio0 |
I think we should do what we can and talk about it to our family, our friends, our wider social circle and even on football forums
The argument that what 'small' people do won't make a difference is part of a spectrum that includes the argument "it doesn't matter what the UK does as we're only responsible for less than 1% of global emissions". It's quite a powerful argument and at first seems difficult to counter but this morning I came across this article which makes the case for small countries taking action:-
https://www.sustainabilitybynu
The article uses logic, statistics and graphs to make a compelling case for small countries to take action. There are 5 main points (refer to the article for details etc):-
1. Rich countries – that have emitted the most – have a moral responsibility
2. If every country that had ‘negligible emissions’ decided to do nothing, we wouldn’t be able to fix climate change
3. Many of the ‘negligible’ emitters offshore some of their emissions
4. Innovating and deploying low-carbon technologies make them cheap for the rest of the world
5. Any country – regardless of its size – can smash ‘glass ceilings’ and set a model for others
These arguments also apply, at the smallest scale, to the case for the importance of individual action. |  |
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| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 13:50 - Jan 10 with 1418 views | Ryorry |
| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 13:17 - Jan 10 by Buhrer |
As a kid I had hope, I believed in our leaders and efforts to manage conservation rather than consumption. As an adult its quite clear our masters are going to rape the world to death, and there is nothing I can do about it. I would accept that any other positioning of blame, particularly using people's children, as morally reprehensible.
Yes, I will be taking as many holidays, weekend breaks, domestic, international, bucket list, as I possibly can. Its the only hope left. Plus the kids love them. |
I’d have thought that “the only hope left” is for you and hundreds of millions like you to *not* do those things. You all add up. I’ll leave someone better at maths and stats than me to do the sums. |  |
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| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 14:11 - Jan 10 with 1360 views | lowhouseblue |
| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 13:17 - Jan 10 by Buhrer |
As a kid I had hope, I believed in our leaders and efforts to manage conservation rather than consumption. As an adult its quite clear our masters are going to rape the world to death, and there is nothing I can do about it. I would accept that any other positioning of blame, particularly using people's children, as morally reprehensible.
Yes, I will be taking as many holidays, weekend breaks, domestic, international, bucket list, as I possibly can. Its the only hope left. Plus the kids love them. |
we can't shrug our responsibility and push it all onto our masters, leaders, corporations, capitalism, someone else. in the rich west our current lifestyles are unsustainable. capitalism etc has been extraordinarily successful in providing us with a level of material prosperity undreamt of by previous generations. it has enabled us to consume more and more from every corner of the globe by making the things we like very cheap relative to our income. it has done that by using cheap fossil fuels to mass produce things we want to consume. we have been willing and enthusiastic participants in all of that. we live lives in over heated houses, drive to shop, fly for holidays, consume food wrapped in plastic and transported around the world, consume mountains of electronics and plastic products, and expect convenience and immediacy in everything we do. all of those things form the life styles we love (they haven't been forced on us against our will) and they all entirely depend on cheapness brought about by large scale use of fossil fuels. in the rich west this is not about what some powerful other is doing - it's about us. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 14:44 - Jan 10 with 1309 views | longtimefan |
| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 12:13 - Jan 10 by Ryorry |
According to a current BBC Radio4 series of short documentaries about the best quick ways to improve your life, coming off social media will bring you as much happiness as winning $100,000 or getting married!! |
"coming off social media will bring you as much happiness as winning $100,000 or getting married!!"
I didn't know winning $100,000 had so many downsides  | | | |
| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 14:58 - Jan 10 with 1281 views | Buhrer |
| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 13:44 - Jan 10 by NthQldITFC |
Perhaps we can change our 'masters'?
I think part of the problem is that a lot of people still tend to think of the thing as some sort of Hollywood movie where Bruce Willis will come along and save everyone while we watch from the comfort of our armchairs. That seems to be largely how we're wired now.
What I can never personally work out is how many of us are like that, and how many have just given up and want to metaphorically 'go out' comfortable.
Either way, there's still hope of minimising the damage if we would actually face up to the prospect of a low energy use way of life.
I post stuff like this periodically in the miniscule hope of a butterfly effect on the human race's psyche - not blaming anyone specifically, or referring to our children's futures to make people feel bad - just in the hope of stirring up a bit of resistance from a lethargic, moribund world society. |
Perhaps we can't though? and I'm not waiting for a hero, just making hay while the sun shines hotter.
Go out comfortable.... Giving up in utter despondency at the total failure of leadership across human society, and that the pigs are at the trough, having won comprehensively, forever, until the end, is not comfortable. Giving children holidays is better than bothering society with this dialogue. You want to effect the human psyche? Ta. Have you increased hope yet? No hair shirt here. I just get on with life and enjoy our world and its experience as fully as I can. | | | |
| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 15:03 - Jan 10 with 1270 views | hoppy |
| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 14:44 - Jan 10 by longtimefan |
"coming off social media will bring you as much happiness as winning $100,000 or getting married!!"
I didn't know winning $100,000 had so many downsides |
How can the two be compared?! |  |
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| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 15:06 - Jan 10 with 1267 views | Buhrer |
| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 14:11 - Jan 10 by lowhouseblue |
we can't shrug our responsibility and push it all onto our masters, leaders, corporations, capitalism, someone else. in the rich west our current lifestyles are unsustainable. capitalism etc has been extraordinarily successful in providing us with a level of material prosperity undreamt of by previous generations. it has enabled us to consume more and more from every corner of the globe by making the things we like very cheap relative to our income. it has done that by using cheap fossil fuels to mass produce things we want to consume. we have been willing and enthusiastic participants in all of that. we live lives in over heated houses, drive to shop, fly for holidays, consume food wrapped in plastic and transported around the world, consume mountains of electronics and plastic products, and expect convenience and immediacy in everything we do. all of those things form the life styles we love (they haven't been forced on us against our will) and they all entirely depend on cheapness brought about by large scale use of fossil fuels. in the rich west this is not about what some powerful other is doing - it's about us. |
If our masters, leader, corporations, capitalism shrug responsibility...... its about us...
You swallowed that one then? | | | |
| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 15:11 - Jan 10 with 1262 views | Buhrer |
| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 13:50 - Jan 10 by Ryorry |
I’d have thought that “the only hope left” is for you and hundreds of millions like you to *not* do those things. You all add up. I’ll leave someone better at maths and stats than me to do the sums. |
Except have you met people? It's bad enough sharing several long haul international flights cheek by jowel with them every year, let alone hoping they'd make intelligent decisions rather than being led by the nose. | | | |
| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 15:14 - Jan 10 with 1243 views | lowhouseblue |
| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 15:06 - Jan 10 by Buhrer |
If our masters, leader, corporations, capitalism shrug responsibility...... its about us...
You swallowed that one then? |
well whatever story you want to tell yourself so you can keep flying and consuming and doing whatever you choose. it's capitalism that made me do it. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 15:15 - Jan 10 with 1244 views | BiGDonnie |
No holidays?
Nut cheese?
A smaller car?
Worst. Thread. Ever. |  |
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| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 15:25 - Jan 10 with 1205 views | NthQldITFC |
| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 14:58 - Jan 10 by Buhrer |
Perhaps we can't though? and I'm not waiting for a hero, just making hay while the sun shines hotter.
Go out comfortable.... Giving up in utter despondency at the total failure of leadership across human society, and that the pigs are at the trough, having won comprehensively, forever, until the end, is not comfortable. Giving children holidays is better than bothering society with this dialogue. You want to effect the human psyche? Ta. Have you increased hope yet? No hair shirt here. I just get on with life and enjoy our world and its experience as fully as I can. |
I can say that I totally understand your point of view. | |
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| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 15:26 - Jan 10 with 1203 views | Buhrer |
| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 15:25 - Jan 10 by NthQldITFC |
I can say that I totally understand your point of view. |
Thanks, apologies for my emotive response. | | | |
| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 15:26 - Jan 10 with 1199 views | positivity |
| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 15:15 - Jan 10 by BiGDonnie |
No holidays?
Nut cheese?
A smaller car?
Worst. Thread. Ever. |
yet still better than the alternative!
no life | |
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| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 15:31 - Jan 10 with 1189 views | BiGDonnie |
| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 15:26 - Jan 10 by positivity |
yet still better than the alternative!
no life |
I really don't think nut cheese is better than the alternative. | |
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| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 15:34 - Jan 10 with 1184 views | NthQldITFC |
| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 15:26 - Jan 10 by Buhrer |
Thanks, apologies for my emotive response. |
Absolutely no apology needed. We're all in the same boat. My thanks to you too for engaging, and my very best wishes to a fellow Blue and a fellow human being. | |
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| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 15:43 - Jan 10 with 1163 views | positivity |
| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 15:31 - Jan 10 by BiGDonnie |
I really don't think nut cheese is better than the alternative. |
you think no life is better than nut cheese?
it's an opinion i suppose, but probably a minority one! | |
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| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 16:21 - Jan 10 with 1120 views | itfcjoe |
| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 13:40 - Jan 10 by lowhouseblue |
what would you do if flying and driving were significantly more expensive to reflect the damage that their emissions do? |
Get a new job if it wasn't doable without the amount of miles i need to do | |
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| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 16:33 - Jan 10 with 1097 views | DanTheMan |
| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 15:14 - Jan 10 by lowhouseblue |
well whatever story you want to tell yourself so you can keep flying and consuming and doing whatever you choose. it's capitalism that made me do it. |
There is, however, the flip side of that, where very powerful actors very much do try and hook countries onto fossil fuels.
https://climate-reporting.org/ |  |
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| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 16:49 - Jan 10 with 1072 views | lowhouseblue |
| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 16:33 - Jan 10 by DanTheMan |
There is, however, the flip side of that, where very powerful actors very much do try and hook countries onto fossil fuels.
https://climate-reporting.org/ |
the people who own the oil resources have a huge incentive to push them. absolutely. my point is that we have a huge incentive to buy them because they make the things we want to consume cheap and the lifestyle we want to lead affordable. equally people in developing countries also want that same life style. and it's not that we've all been brainwashed or manipulated - humans like variety and convenience and immediacy and low effort and sociability and travel and status and amusement. the things that give us all that most easily depend on lots and lots of cheap fossil fuels. mass production has made a vast range of things affordable and within reach for most people in the west - that is a transport and energy intensive way of making things. it's not that we're junkies or we've been tricked - it's that we've worked out that we can get the good life most quickly and easily by consuming loads of fossil fuels. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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