| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 16:52 - Jan 10 with 1715 views | TresBonne |
| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 19:00 - Jan 9 by Herbivore |
They're killing the planet as well as being horribly bad for you and lacking any form of nutrition. |
Let a man enjoy his sausage sandwich, ffs. |  | |  |
| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 16:59 - Jan 10 with 1696 views | Buhrer |
| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 16:49 - Jan 10 by lowhouseblue |
the people who own the oil resources have a huge incentive to push them. absolutely. my point is that we have a huge incentive to buy them because they make the things we want to consume cheap and the lifestyle we want to lead affordable. equally people in developing countries also want that same life style. and it's not that we've all been brainwashed or manipulated - humans like variety and convenience and immediacy and low effort and sociability and travel and status and amusement. the things that give us all that most easily depend on lots and lots of cheap fossil fuels. mass production has made a vast range of things affordable and within reach for most people in the west - that is a transport and energy intensive way of making things. it's not that we're junkies or we've been tricked - it's that we've worked out that we can get the good life most quickly and easily by consuming loads of fossil fuels. |
We weren't tricked? We weren't brainwashed and manipulated? It's us that worked out how to live this petrochemical dream?
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2018/sep/1 |  | | |
| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 17:20 - Jan 10 with 1669 views | nodge_blue |
I got a ford puma which is about as small as we can do with and it's a soft hybrid - so Ive already done that. And in the last five years only made one trip abroad using planes.
Does that pass?
Think we need a lot more though. I did read something encouraging that this or last year may see peak C02 emissions before they start to fall. But we are still pumping into the atmosphere of course when it's already complaining. And we will do for another 30 years or so. |  |
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| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 17:21 - Jan 10 with 1664 views | DanTheMan |
| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 16:49 - Jan 10 by lowhouseblue |
the people who own the oil resources have a huge incentive to push them. absolutely. my point is that we have a huge incentive to buy them because they make the things we want to consume cheap and the lifestyle we want to lead affordable. equally people in developing countries also want that same life style. and it's not that we've all been brainwashed or manipulated - humans like variety and convenience and immediacy and low effort and sociability and travel and status and amusement. the things that give us all that most easily depend on lots and lots of cheap fossil fuels. mass production has made a vast range of things affordable and within reach for most people in the west - that is a transport and energy intensive way of making things. it's not that we're junkies or we've been tricked - it's that we've worked out that we can get the good life most quickly and easily by consuming loads of fossil fuels. |
I do understand your point and can see the logic in it, but essentially your solution is to ask humans not to behave as humans always have. Which won't work. The pragmatic solution is to force the change, unfortunately, which needs to start at a higher level than the individual.
We can, and should, make changes to our lives, but we won't get anywhere when countries like Saudi Arabia are spending enormous amounts of money trying to hook continents back onto fossil fuels. |  |
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| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 17:33 - Jan 10 with 1635 views | lowhouseblue |
| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 17:21 - Jan 10 by DanTheMan |
I do understand your point and can see the logic in it, but essentially your solution is to ask humans not to behave as humans always have. Which won't work. The pragmatic solution is to force the change, unfortunately, which needs to start at a higher level than the individual.
We can, and should, make changes to our lives, but we won't get anywhere when countries like Saudi Arabia are spending enormous amounts of money trying to hook continents back onto fossil fuels. |
you can't force change in a democracy. if you don't convince people of the need they will just vote for the charlatan who says that none of it's needed. the next donald trump will just say it's all a fake. the reality if that the government needs to take the lead but we need people to knowingly keep voting for a major change to their life styles. that's what makes this hard. we all need to stop buying fossil fuels - but that's a choice for us. the fact that saudi etc have it and want to sell it doesn't change the fact that we need to decide not to buy it and accept the consequences for our lives that comes with that. governments that do unpopular things (however good the science) without solid public support get voted out. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 17:38 - Jan 10 with 1612 views | lowhouseblue |
oil companies were never going to take the lead in reducing fossil fuel consumption. that's the pope defecating in the woods territory. but equally consumers who get all the huge benefits that consuming fossil fuels provides are equally reluctant to change their life styles. they've not been brain washed they really like the status quo and all that fossil fuels provide. what we choose to consume can't just be blamed on the people who sell stuff to us. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 18:08 - Jan 10 with 1553 views | MK1 |
| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 17:59 - Jan 9 by factual_blue |
Got two foreign holidays booked so far for this year.
#sodthefuture |
When those who can actually effect real change and enforce it, then I will follow suit. Yes we can all do our little bit, but it will never be enough. Unless real changes are made by those who can, then the recycling of my baked bean tin isn't really worth it. As with virtually all the problems on the planet, it is caused by those who will, regardless of what you or I think or do. |  |
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| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 18:20 - Jan 10 with 1541 views | DanTheMan |
| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 17:33 - Jan 10 by lowhouseblue |
you can't force change in a democracy. if you don't convince people of the need they will just vote for the charlatan who says that none of it's needed. the next donald trump will just say it's all a fake. the reality if that the government needs to take the lead but we need people to knowingly keep voting for a major change to their life styles. that's what makes this hard. we all need to stop buying fossil fuels - but that's a choice for us. the fact that saudi etc have it and want to sell it doesn't change the fact that we need to decide not to buy it and accept the consequences for our lives that comes with that. governments that do unpopular things (however good the science) without solid public support get voted out. |
Agree with that, it's a crap situation. Not enough human beings are going to change their behaviour and trying to get it done through regulation will just end up with people trying to vote to undo it because it inconveniences them, and because propaganda is effective.
Easy to be pretty downtrodden really. | |
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| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 18:35 - Jan 10 with 1517 views | Ryorry |
| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 18:20 - Jan 10 by DanTheMan |
Agree with that, it's a crap situation. Not enough human beings are going to change their behaviour and trying to get it done through regulation will just end up with people trying to vote to undo it because it inconveniences them, and because propaganda is effective.
Easy to be pretty downtrodden really. |
Someone said to me when I was getting really down about this - "don't worry R, planet Earth & the weeds will always survive".
An y'know what? He's right!
The Human Being as a species doesn't really deserve to survive, sadly, when you consider the unbelievable selfishness, wilful stupidity & cruelty of so many. Perhaps we've developed too far for our own good (AI anyone?). Reckon Earth will shortly be carrying out its own form of detox. I don't think I'm the only one who wondered if the pandemic was nature's way of keeping our population growth in check.
This has all become a bit philosophical for a cold Wednesday evening in January innit! |  |
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| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 19:18 - Jan 10 with 1480 views | Buhrer |
| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 18:35 - Jan 10 by Ryorry |
Someone said to me when I was getting really down about this - "don't worry R, planet Earth & the weeds will always survive".
An y'know what? He's right!
The Human Being as a species doesn't really deserve to survive, sadly, when you consider the unbelievable selfishness, wilful stupidity & cruelty of so many. Perhaps we've developed too far for our own good (AI anyone?). Reckon Earth will shortly be carrying out its own form of detox. I don't think I'm the only one who wondered if the pandemic was nature's way of keeping our population growth in check.
This has all become a bit philosophical for a cold Wednesday evening in January innit! |
Apparently due to climate change, sea levels will rise and sink Norfolk by 2050. Every cloud.. | | | |
| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 19:50 - Jan 10 with 1458 views | stonojnr |
| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 18:41 - Jan 9 by J2BLUE |
One of dumbest suggestions I have ever heard. |
you say that, but as an idea of the amount of energy data centres consume to power said internet, they estimate it accounts for 10% of the worldwide power usage, and thats probably a large underestimate as I doubt they account for all the tech that requires power to make the internet work
now you may think the internet is clearly the height of human evolution and the benefits far outweigh the impacts, but is certainly not some tiny bit of power it consumes, and its only going to increase. |  | | |
| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 00:21 - Jan 11 with 1386 views | JackNorthStand |
People don’t think they can make a difference; making sacrifices whilst others don’t. I understand your view point, but what I have said is why I believe that the onus should be aimed at the businesses making the correct decisions not the consumer. | | | |
| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 10:26 - Jan 11 with 1265 views | matteoblue |
What the 'el nino could possibly be going on here? |  |
| We are Premier League, say we are Premier League! |
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| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 10:48 - Jan 11 with 1246 views | NthQldITFC |
| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 00:21 - Jan 11 by JackNorthStand |
People don’t think they can make a difference; making sacrifices whilst others don’t. I understand your view point, but what I have said is why I believe that the onus should be aimed at the businesses making the correct decisions not the consumer. |
Neither business nor politics will respond without having their short-termist nuts squeezed by the entity which empowers them, namely the consumer/elector. |  |
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| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 11:09 - Jan 11 with 1210 views | lowhouseblue |
| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 10:48 - Jan 11 by NthQldITFC |
Neither business nor politics will respond without having their short-termist nuts squeezed by the entity which empowers them, namely the consumer/elector. |
business won't respond if it thinks that consumers will just shift to a cheaper non-green alternative in order to keep their current lifestyle unchanged. and politicians won't respond if they think they'll be kicked out at the next election because voters resent losing their old lifestyles. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 11:33 - Jan 11 with 1179 views | hoppy |
Where's the option to give up the kids, so it's easier to take a holiday or upgrade the car? |  |
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| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 11:39 - Jan 11 with 1155 views | Buhrer |
| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 11:09 - Jan 11 by lowhouseblue |
business won't respond if it thinks that consumers will just shift to a cheaper non-green alternative in order to keep their current lifestyle unchanged. and politicians won't respond if they think they'll be kicked out at the next election because voters resent losing their old lifestyles. |
Glad you've acknowledged its the politicians fault. Its not unreasonable for people to seek cheaper options in a capitalist world, nor to vote out politicians that reduce standard of living (while staying rich). It is contemptible for leaders of governments and industry to lie, just to feather their short term nests, while directly allowing epochal climate change that existentially threatens the human race.
Fortunately no one I've ever voted for has won a single time, so I'm totally disenfranchised and my hands are clean. Apart from after cleaning the open fireplace out obvs. [Post edited 11 Jan 2024 11:41]
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| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 11:41 - Jan 11 with 1152 views | NthQldITFC |
| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 11:09 - Jan 11 by lowhouseblue |
business won't respond if it thinks that consumers will just shift to a cheaper non-green alternative in order to keep their current lifestyle unchanged. and politicians won't respond if they think they'll be kicked out at the next election because voters resent losing their old lifestyles. |
Which is why education and awareness and bravery and mature, sacrificial actions by 'the people' are what need to lead the change that might help save us.
And which is why I get angry when people say "What I do won't change anything." It's a cowardly and pathetic and ignorant and selfish cop out. | |
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| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 12:26 - Jan 11 with 1116 views | lowhouseblue |
| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 11:39 - Jan 11 by Buhrer |
Glad you've acknowledged its the politicians fault. Its not unreasonable for people to seek cheaper options in a capitalist world, nor to vote out politicians that reduce standard of living (while staying rich). It is contemptible for leaders of governments and industry to lie, just to feather their short term nests, while directly allowing epochal climate change that existentially threatens the human race.
Fortunately no one I've ever voted for has won a single time, so I'm totally disenfranchised and my hands are clean. Apart from after cleaning the open fireplace out obvs. [Post edited 11 Jan 2024 11:41]
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what you choose to consume, how much you travel, how you live affects global warming. politicians have not done enough, but global warming is directly the result of what we collectively have chosen to consume and the fact that we have exploited more and more fossil fuel energy in order to consume more and more. this isn't about 'them' it's about 'us'. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 16:12 - Jan 11 with 998 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
No kids ans hopefully I'll outlive the cat |  |
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| Would you give up a holiday and downsize your car... on 13:42 - Jan 12 with 904 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
I don’t have a car. |  | | |
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