| Nice to see the Gaza ceasefire vote in the Commons is keeping to... 19:05 - Feb 21 with 9832 views | pointofblue |
... the topic in hand.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-68349957
Led by donkeys is quite apt, really. From the outside looking in, it does feel like the Speaker has unnecessarily inserted himself into a party issue, and now distracted from one of the most important subjects of the moment. |  |
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| Nice to see the Gaza ceasefire vote in the Commons is keeping to... on 13:22 - Feb 22 with 2371 views | OldFart71 |
I personally call it gutless. The World stands by whilst thousands are being killed every day and whilst I fully understand Israel's need to rid the area of Hamas that is still no excuse for killing 30,000 people. Why does the BBC have to declare at every opportunity that the British Government see's Hamas as a terrorist organisation ? I understand that presenters are told to say this. But to me it's just a justification of Israel bombing the life out of Gaza. | | | |
| Nice to see the Gaza ceasefire vote in the Commons is keeping to... on 13:23 - Feb 22 with 2363 views | Whos_blue |
| Nice to see the Gaza ceasefire vote in the Commons is keeping to... on 12:36 - Feb 22 by Ryorry |
You cannot afford to be complacent - unless you’re willing to allow this stinking, corrupt, shameless shower of shoite douchebags back in.
Complacency and apathy amongst voters is the Tories’ greatest weapon and hope. The outcome of the next GE is not a foregone conclusion. All it takes is a few million people predicting a Labour landslide, then not bothering to vote, or spoiling their papers, and the JRMs, Rishis etc. will be back in. No vote should be wasted, even in supposedly‘safe’ seats. |
Well said.
When push comes to shove, I may have to hold my nose and vote LD, which is tough as a Labour supporter.
But my seat is so safe for the tories, Labour always come a poor third in any election. (South Cambs)
Though the chance is slim, the LDs are the only party who could lay a glove on the tories. [Post edited 22 Feb 2024 13:25]
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| Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness. |
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| Nice to see the Gaza ceasefire vote in the Commons is keeping to... on 13:25 - Feb 22 with 2354 views | pointofblue |
| Nice to see the Gaza ceasefire vote in the Commons is keeping to... on 13:14 - Feb 22 by giant_stow |
I understand your gloom, but can't help feel your conclusion is way out. |
It feels like it's a case of vote for Labour because they haven't been in power since 2010, rather than vote for Labour because they offer something fresh, new and dynamic. Yesterday's events re-enforces that to me. | |
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| Nice to see the Gaza ceasefire vote in the Commons is keeping to... on 13:44 - Feb 22 with 2322 views | Ryorry |
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| Nice to see the Gaza ceasefire vote in the Commons is keeping to... on 13:51 - Feb 22 with 2281 views | pointofblue |
| Nice to see the Gaza ceasefire vote in the Commons is keeping to... on 13:44 - Feb 22 by Ryorry |
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Exactly. One little better than the other. | |
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| Nice to see the Gaza ceasefire vote in the Commons is keeping to... on 15:22 - Feb 22 with 2208 views | bluelagos |
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| Nice to see the Gaza ceasefire vote in the Commons is keeping to... on 15:58 - Feb 22 with 2147 views | pointofblue |
| Nice to see the Gaza ceasefire vote in the Commons is keeping to... on 15:22 - Feb 22 by bluelagos |
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I assume all of it could have prevented had Labour waived the whip. Labour MPs could have voted on conscience on the motion and amendment, in no doubt the Conservative amendment would have won, and then presumably they could have raised their own motion on their next opposition day. | |
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| Nice to see the Gaza ceasefire vote in the Commons is keeping to... on 16:11 - Feb 22 with 2129 views | Whos_blue |
Whilst I'm less than happy with Labour's behaviour over this debate, I can't help but think there is an element of "thou doth protest too much" from the tories. With a majority of 80, they could have reasonably backed themselves to have won any vote. There's much more to this, but they are playing a blinder on siding with the SNP to pass all the blame on to Labour and vicariously, the speaker. | |
| Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness. |
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| Nice to see the Gaza ceasefire vote in the Commons is keeping to... on 16:19 - Feb 22 with 2117 views | itfcjoe |
| Nice to see the Gaza ceasefire vote in the Commons is keeping to... on 16:11 - Feb 22 by Whos_blue |
Whilst I'm less than happy with Labour's behaviour over this debate, I can't help but think there is an element of "thou doth protest too much" from the tories. With a majority of 80, they could have reasonably backed themselves to have won any vote. There's much more to this, but they are playing a blinder on siding with the SNP to pass all the blame on to Labour and vicariously, the speaker. |
The SNP are just politicking against Labour at the moment because they are the biggest threat to them in Scotland now - and crying about it as Labour politick back against them. They know exactly what they are doing, it's nothing to do with the actual situation in Gaza and they are more concerned about being outflanked on that than the Gazans |  |
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| Nice to see the Gaza ceasefire vote in the Commons is keeping to... on 16:32 - Feb 22 with 2080 views | DJR |
| Nice to see the Gaza ceasefire vote in the Commons is keeping to... on 16:19 - Feb 22 by itfcjoe |
The SNP are just politicking against Labour at the moment because they are the biggest threat to them in Scotland now - and crying about it as Labour politick back against them. They know exactly what they are doing, it's nothing to do with the actual situation in Gaza and they are more concerned about being outflanked on that than the Gazans |
You do realise that Humza Yousaf still has family in Gaza, and had his in-laws trapped there for a while, not knowing whether they would survive or get out?
Indeed, he is the one politician in the UK who has been consistent on Gaza throughout.
And the SNP is the only major party in Great Britain which would appear to reflect the mood of the country as a whole. [Post edited 22 Feb 2024 16:38]
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| Nice to see the Gaza ceasefire vote in the Commons is keeping to... on 16:42 - Feb 22 with 2061 views | itfcjoe |
| Nice to see the Gaza ceasefire vote in the Commons is keeping to... on 16:32 - Feb 22 by DJR |
You do realise that Humza Yousaf still has family in Gaza, and had his in-laws trapped there for a while, not knowing whether they would survive or get out?
Indeed, he is the one politician in the UK who has been consistent on Gaza throughout.
And the SNP is the only major party in Great Britain which would appear to reflect the mood of the country as a whole. [Post edited 22 Feb 2024 16:38]
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Yes I do realise this, but I also think their position currently is not different enough from Labours amendment to have seen all merry hell break loose.
Their vote was only to try and divide the Labour party, that was their reasoning for it | |
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| Nice to see the Gaza ceasefire vote in the Commons is keeping to... on 16:58 - Feb 22 with 2010 views | DJR |
| Nice to see the Gaza ceasefire vote in the Commons is keeping to... on 16:42 - Feb 22 by itfcjoe |
Yes I do realise this, but I also think their position currently is not different enough from Labours amendment to have seen all merry hell break loose.
Their vote was only to try and divide the Labour party, that was their reasoning for it |
I think their position is different because the SNP motion indicates they would have supported the recent UN Security Council resolution calling for an immediate ceasefire (had they had a vote), whereas that is not something the Government did or Labour would have done.
As it is, the SNP only has three opposition days in contrast to Labour's 17, so obviously it is going to use them for political advantage, but you're not telling me that Labour wouldn't do the same in its 17.
The difference is that I imagine Labour normally use them against the Tories being their main opposition, whereas the SNP are likely to use them against Labour as their main opposition. | | | |
| Nice to see the Gaza ceasefire vote in the Commons is keeping to... on 17:02 - Feb 22 with 1996 views | pointofblue |
| Nice to see the Gaza ceasefire vote in the Commons is keeping to... on 16:58 - Feb 22 by DJR |
I think their position is different because the SNP motion indicates they would have supported the recent UN Security Council resolution calling for an immediate ceasefire (had they had a vote), whereas that is not something the Government did or Labour would have done.
As it is, the SNP only has three opposition days in contrast to Labour's 17, so obviously it is going to use them for political advantage, but you're not telling me that Labour wouldn't do the same in its 17.
The difference is that I imagine Labour normally use them against the Tories being their main opposition, whereas the SNP are likely to use them against Labour as their main opposition. |
I think the big issue was the SNP's reference to "collective punishment" and a lack of acknowledgement towards the events of 7th October. That's why Labour felt they couldn't throw their weight as a party behind the motion.
Still think they could have waived the whip and allowed the MPs to vote based on their conscience for either the SNP motion or Tory amendment, rather than suggest to the Speaker he should go against Parliamentary process. As indicated by a previous tweet, we've had enough of that from the current incumbents. | |
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| Nice to see the Gaza ceasefire vote in the Commons is keeping to... on 17:19 - Feb 22 with 1964 views | lowhouseblue |
| Nice to see the Gaza ceasefire vote in the Commons is keeping to... on 16:32 - Feb 22 by DJR |
You do realise that Humza Yousaf still has family in Gaza, and had his in-laws trapped there for a while, not knowing whether they would survive or get out?
Indeed, he is the one politician in the UK who has been consistent on Gaza throughout.
And the SNP is the only major party in Great Britain which would appear to reflect the mood of the country as a whole. [Post edited 22 Feb 2024 16:38]
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none of that alters the fact that the snp is playing politics. they wanted a position in which labour mps had nothing they could vote for. in the current climate, and given labours call for a ceasefire, that is just divisive. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Nice to see the Gaza ceasefire vote in the Commons is keeping to... on 17:27 - Feb 22 with 1922 views | DJR |
| Nice to see the Gaza ceasefire vote in the Commons is keeping to... on 17:19 - Feb 22 by lowhouseblue |
none of that alters the fact that the snp is playing politics. they wanted a position in which labour mps had nothing they could vote for. in the current climate, and given labours call for a ceasefire, that is just divisive. |
Quite apart from the fact that that is normally the position on an opposition day, the problem is that neither Labour nor the Tories really want any debate on the issue, so what you seem to be suggesting is that Parliament shouldn't even discuss the matter, even though the SNP's position reflects the majority view in the country, according to recent polling. [Post edited 22 Feb 2024 17:32]
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| Nice to see the Gaza ceasefire vote in the Commons is keeping to... on 17:28 - Feb 22 with 1920 views | pointofblue |
| Nice to see the Gaza ceasefire vote in the Commons is keeping to... on 17:19 - Feb 22 by lowhouseblue |
none of that alters the fact that the snp is playing politics. they wanted a position in which labour mps had nothing they could vote for. in the current climate, and given labours call for a ceasefire, that is just divisive. |
I think quite a few Labour MPs were prepared to vote for the SNP motion. | |
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| Nice to see the Gaza ceasefire vote in the Commons is keeping to... on 17:33 - Feb 22 with 1899 views | lowhouseblue |
| Nice to see the Gaza ceasefire vote in the Commons is keeping to... on 17:27 - Feb 22 by DJR |
Quite apart from the fact that that is normally the position on an opposition day, the problem is that neither Labour nor the Tories really want any debate on the issue, so what you seem to be suggesting is that Parliament shouldn't even discuss the matter, even though the SNP's position reflects the majority view in the country, according to recent polling. [Post edited 22 Feb 2024 17:32]
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no they should discuss all three motions - even a 4th if the libs have one. that way everyone gets to vote for the one they want and no one can misrepresent someone who votes against the snp one as being opposed to a ceasefire (which was the snp's cunning plan). [Post edited 22 Feb 2024 17:36]
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| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Nice to see the Gaza ceasefire vote in the Commons is keeping to... on 17:37 - Feb 22 with 1880 views | DJR |
| Nice to see the Gaza ceasefire vote in the Commons is keeping to... on 17:33 - Feb 22 by lowhouseblue |
no they should discuss all three motions - even a 4th if the libs have one. that way everyone gets to vote for the one they want and no one can misrepresent someone who votes against the snp one as being opposed to a ceasefire (which was the snp's cunning plan). [Post edited 22 Feb 2024 17:36]
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But that's not how opposition days work, and the Speaker shouldn't have changed the rules (against the advice of the Clerk of the House) just to suit the leadership of the Labour Party.
As it was, the SNP were denied a vote on their own motion which I don't think has ever happened on an opposition day, and Starmer's cunning plan won the day. [Post edited 22 Feb 2024 17:40]
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| Nice to see the Gaza ceasefire vote in the Commons is keeping to... on 17:42 - Feb 22 with 1856 views | lowhouseblue |
| Nice to see the Gaza ceasefire vote in the Commons is keeping to... on 17:37 - Feb 22 by DJR |
But that's not how opposition days work, and the Speaker shouldn't have changed the rules (against the advice of the Clerk of the House) just to suit the leadership of the Labour Party.
As it was, the SNP were denied a vote on their own motion which I don't think has ever happened on an opposition day, and Starmer's cunning plan won the day. [Post edited 22 Feb 2024 17:40]
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yes the speaker got it wrong. but the snp were playing politics and are upset that their cunning trap for labour got spoilt. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Nice to see the Gaza ceasefire vote in the Commons is keeping to... on 17:47 - Feb 22 with 1826 views | pointofblue |
| Nice to see the Gaza ceasefire vote in the Commons is keeping to... on 17:42 - Feb 22 by lowhouseblue |
yes the speaker got it wrong. but the snp were playing politics and are upset that their cunning trap for labour got spoilt. |
If the SNP were playing politics then so were Labour. | |
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| Nice to see the Gaza ceasefire vote in the Commons is keeping to... on 17:49 - Feb 22 with 1815 views | DJR |
| Nice to see the Gaza ceasefire vote in the Commons is keeping to... on 17:42 - Feb 22 by lowhouseblue |
yes the speaker got it wrong. but the snp were playing politics and are upset that their cunning trap for labour got spoilt. |
Shock, horror, probe! A political party that plays politics. Whatever next? [Post edited 22 Feb 2024 17:49]
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| Nice to see the Gaza ceasefire vote in the Commons is keeping to... on 17:51 - Feb 22 with 1800 views | lowhouseblue |
| Nice to see the Gaza ceasefire vote in the Commons is keeping to... on 17:47 - Feb 22 by pointofblue |
If the SNP were playing politics then so were Labour. |
labour were trying to find a form of words that it could vote for. the snp were trying to find a form of words that labour couldn't vote for. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Nice to see the Gaza ceasefire vote in the Commons is keeping to... on 17:56 - Feb 22 with 1777 views | pointofblue |
| Nice to see the Gaza ceasefire vote in the Commons is keeping to... on 17:51 - Feb 22 by lowhouseblue |
labour were trying to find a form of words that it could vote for. the snp were trying to find a form of words that labour couldn't vote for. |
Both playing games, but SNP did it within protocol whilst Labour pushed the Speaker to break it. | |
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| Nice to see the Gaza ceasefire vote in the Commons is keeping to... on 19:03 - Feb 22 with 1696 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Nice to see the Gaza ceasefire vote in the Commons is keeping to... on 17:56 - Feb 22 by pointofblue |
Both playing games, but SNP did it within protocol whilst Labour pushed the Speaker to break it. |
With a budget coming up and the prospect, no matter how slim, of Sunak calling a snap election for May yesterday may have been the last SNP sponsored debate before the vote.
SNP played the same card they used for the last suchdebate. It worked then with Starmer made to feel uncomfortable and a visible split in the Labour Party.
It should have had the same impact yesterday but I doubt anyone could have anticipated Starmer applying pressure and the Speaker being influenced against the advice of his advisors.
Labour may need a good result in Scotland to achieve a workable majority. If anything this has backfired on Starmer, who I am sure will be portrayed by SNP as being as untrustworthy as Sunak.
The SNP need as many seats as possible if they are to have any influence in the next Parliament. |  |
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| Nice to see the Gaza ceasefire vote in the Commons is keeping to... on 19:49 - Feb 22 with 1662 views | itfcjoe |
| Nice to see the Gaza ceasefire vote in the Commons is keeping to... on 19:03 - Feb 22 by Pinewoodblue |
With a budget coming up and the prospect, no matter how slim, of Sunak calling a snap election for May yesterday may have been the last SNP sponsored debate before the vote.
SNP played the same card they used for the last suchdebate. It worked then with Starmer made to feel uncomfortable and a visible split in the Labour Party.
It should have had the same impact yesterday but I doubt anyone could have anticipated Starmer applying pressure and the Speaker being influenced against the advice of his advisors.
Labour may need a good result in Scotland to achieve a workable majority. If anything this has backfired on Starmer, who I am sure will be portrayed by SNP as being as untrustworthy as Sunak.
The SNP need as many seats as possible if they are to have any influence in the next Parliament. |
I don’t see how it backfires on Starmer in that regard, ultimately he’s got through it with party intact and will be an irrelevance when it comes to it at election time. Removing the whip or sacking his own shadow cabinet would have been much worse | |
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