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If it walks like a duck etc… 21:01 - Feb 23 with 10907 viewsElderGrizzly

Utterly repugnant and should have the whip withdrawn immediately

4
If it walks like a duck etc… on 21:11 - Feb 23 with 5087 viewsDJR

I posted the following on the Palestinian thread around the same time you posted.

Sadly, Islamphobia seems out of control with peaceful protesters against the war in Gaza described as mobs, Suella Braverman writing that Islamists now control Britain and Lee Anderson saying Islamists have control of Sadiq Khan and have control of London.

Apart from travellers and gypsies, there can't be any other minority group in the country where prejudice has become so common, whilst at the same time being "acceptable" and very rarely condemned.

But as Jess Phillips put it today.

“Level of Islamophobia people are displaying currently is sickening. My constituents, family and friends are not Islamists, they do not hate any of these things. They are not a mob, they are just people. No one bullied me (any more than on any issue).”
[Post edited 23 Feb 21:13]
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If it walks like a duck etc… on 21:25 - Feb 23 with 5007 viewsDJR

Even the Guardian is tapping into the idea of violent Islamist mobs with a headline "British MPs fearful of violent attacks as tensions over Gaza war increase threats" accompanied by a photo of those outside the House of Commons on Wednesday night, even though I don't recall any trouble being reported.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/23/british-mps-fearful-of-violent-

Interestingly, the article states that a Muslim Labour MP who asked to be kept anonymous said they had received a “very serious death threat” before Christmas for being vocally pro-Palestine.

“I live with my young children in my constituency and I hid it from them,” they said. “It’s an incredibly lonely place to be when you are worried about your family but can’t share it with them.”
[Post edited 23 Feb 21:36]
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If it walks like a duck etc… on 21:31 - Feb 23 with 4955 viewsNthsuffolkblue

If it walks like a duck etc… on 21:11 - Feb 23 by DJR

I posted the following on the Palestinian thread around the same time you posted.

Sadly, Islamphobia seems out of control with peaceful protesters against the war in Gaza described as mobs, Suella Braverman writing that Islamists now control Britain and Lee Anderson saying Islamists have control of Sadiq Khan and have control of London.

Apart from travellers and gypsies, there can't be any other minority group in the country where prejudice has become so common, whilst at the same time being "acceptable" and very rarely condemned.

But as Jess Phillips put it today.

“Level of Islamophobia people are displaying currently is sickening. My constituents, family and friends are not Islamists, they do not hate any of these things. They are not a mob, they are just people. No one bullied me (any more than on any issue).”
[Post edited 23 Feb 21:13]


It is general xenophobia and racism sponsored by this government off the back of it being popularised by our media in the lead up to the Brexit referendum. Their rhetoric has been disgraceful for a long time and it has played to their audience.

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If it walks like a duck etc… on 21:40 - Feb 23 with 4900 viewsArnoldMoorhen

If it walks like a duck etc… on 21:25 - Feb 23 by DJR

Even the Guardian is tapping into the idea of violent Islamist mobs with a headline "British MPs fearful of violent attacks as tensions over Gaza war increase threats" accompanied by a photo of those outside the House of Commons on Wednesday night, even though I don't recall any trouble being reported.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/23/british-mps-fearful-of-violent-

Interestingly, the article states that a Muslim Labour MP who asked to be kept anonymous said they had received a “very serious death threat” before Christmas for being vocally pro-Palestine.

“I live with my young children in my constituency and I hid it from them,” they said. “It’s an incredibly lonely place to be when you are worried about your family but can’t share it with them.”
[Post edited 23 Feb 21:36]


It is quite possible that both things are true.

Islamaphobia can be on the rise at the same time as some Islamists are making threats to MPs.

It's even possible that Keir Starmer has received multiple threats against himself, or his family, and that the Speaker acted accordingly.

I don't know if that is the case, but it is possible.
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If it walks like a duck etc… on 21:49 - Feb 23 with 4853 viewsDJR

If it walks like a duck etc… on 21:31 - Feb 23 by Nthsuffolkblue

It is general xenophobia and racism sponsored by this government off the back of it being popularised by our media in the lead up to the Brexit referendum. Their rhetoric has been disgraceful for a long time and it has played to their audience.


But the two most unpleasant posters of the Brexit campaign were clearly Islamophobic, and Baroness Warsi has been complaining about Islamophobia in the Tory party since at least 2011.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/16/nigel-farage-defends-ukip-break

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-vote-leave-accused-
[Post edited 24 Feb 8:07]
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If it walks like a duck etc… on 21:54 - Feb 23 with 4813 viewsDJR

If it walks like a duck etc… on 21:40 - Feb 23 by ArnoldMoorhen

It is quite possible that both things are true.

Islamaphobia can be on the rise at the same time as some Islamists are making threats to MPs.

It's even possible that Keir Starmer has received multiple threats against himself, or his family, and that the Speaker acted accordingly.

I don't know if that is the case, but it is possible.


I don't deny there are threats against MPs, and maybe some of the threats are from Islamists, but my issue is the way that Muslims in general are all being tarred with the same brush in the media, and also by some MPs.

That to me is straightforward Islamophobia.

Indeed, why is there now talk of banning demonstrations outside the Houses of Parliament when there have been some very violent protests in the past, such as the protests against student fees, which I witnessed first hand?
[Post edited 23 Feb 21:57]
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If it walks like a duck etc… on 22:11 - Feb 23 with 4705 viewsArnoldMoorhen

If it walks like a duck etc… on 21:54 - Feb 23 by DJR

I don't deny there are threats against MPs, and maybe some of the threats are from Islamists, but my issue is the way that Muslims in general are all being tarred with the same brush in the media, and also by some MPs.

That to me is straightforward Islamophobia.

Indeed, why is there now talk of banning demonstrations outside the Houses of Parliament when there have been some very violent protests in the past, such as the protests against student fees, which I witnessed first hand?
[Post edited 23 Feb 21:57]


There have been several generations of student demos, so it depends on which one you are talking about, but one student fees demo (Churchill mohican?) did lead to some of the impetus for the CJB, if I remember rightly.
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If it walks like a duck etc… on 22:19 - Feb 23 with 4645 viewsJ2BLUE

If it walks like a duck etc… on 21:25 - Feb 23 by DJR

Even the Guardian is tapping into the idea of violent Islamist mobs with a headline "British MPs fearful of violent attacks as tensions over Gaza war increase threats" accompanied by a photo of those outside the House of Commons on Wednesday night, even though I don't recall any trouble being reported.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/23/british-mps-fearful-of-violent-

Interestingly, the article states that a Muslim Labour MP who asked to be kept anonymous said they had received a “very serious death threat” before Christmas for being vocally pro-Palestine.

“I live with my young children in my constituency and I hid it from them,” they said. “It’s an incredibly lonely place to be when you are worried about your family but can’t share it with them.”
[Post edited 23 Feb 21:36]


When did death threats become so normalised?

Disagree about Gaza/Israel - death threats
Disagree with someone's views - death threats
Accidentally injure another player playing professional sport - death threats
Disagree with farming subsidies - death threats

The world is getting more and more divided with cowardly idiots behind screens going full tilt over any little thing.

Truly impaired.
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If it walks like a duck etc… on 22:23 - Feb 23 with 4601 viewsgtsb1966

If it walks like a duck etc… on 22:19 - Feb 23 by J2BLUE

When did death threats become so normalised?

Disagree about Gaza/Israel - death threats
Disagree with someone's views - death threats
Accidentally injure another player playing professional sport - death threats
Disagree with farming subsidies - death threats

The world is getting more and more divided with cowardly idiots behind screens going full tilt over any little thing.


Your last paragraph nearly describes this board. Swap the world with TWTD forum and get rid of cowardly and it would describe this board perfectly.
[Post edited 23 Feb 22:28]
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If it walks like a duck etc… on 22:36 - Feb 23 with 4498 viewsJ2BLUE

If it walks like a duck etc… on 22:23 - Feb 23 by gtsb1966

Your last paragraph nearly describes this board. Swap the world with TWTD forum and get rid of cowardly and it would describe this board perfectly.
[Post edited 23 Feb 22:28]


WHAT THE F### DID YOU SAY YOU TOTAL ####?!? WHO THE F### DO YOU THINK YOU ARE?

Truly impaired.
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-1
If it walks like a duck etc… on 22:48 - Feb 23 with 4435 viewsGuthrum

If it walks like a duck etc… on 22:19 - Feb 23 by J2BLUE

When did death threats become so normalised?

Disagree about Gaza/Israel - death threats
Disagree with someone's views - death threats
Accidentally injure another player playing professional sport - death threats
Disagree with farming subsidies - death threats

The world is getting more and more divided with cowardly idiots behind screens going full tilt over any little thing.


Under economic and social stress, everything is becoming polarised. Escalation is part of that process, to prove yourself acceptable to extremist communities, you have to act extreme. There is no place for nuance or moderation, especially not seeing another's point of view. Everything must be dialled up to the max.

Pretty soon, you hit the stop - which is wishing someone was dead. There is emotionally nowhere else to go, but anything less is not enough.

In any case, death has become meaningless. There is so much death in films, TV, games - but not in real life* - that people have become desensitised to the idea of it. Thus it becomes just another insult. All the impact is at the receiving end.



* Where it tends to be hidden and avoided, even in language. Previous generations were much more used to seeing it in person.

Good Lord! Whatever is it?
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If it walks like a duck etc… on 22:52 - Feb 23 with 4390 viewsJ2BLUE

If it walks like a duck etc… on 22:48 - Feb 23 by Guthrum

Under economic and social stress, everything is becoming polarised. Escalation is part of that process, to prove yourself acceptable to extremist communities, you have to act extreme. There is no place for nuance or moderation, especially not seeing another's point of view. Everything must be dialled up to the max.

Pretty soon, you hit the stop - which is wishing someone was dead. There is emotionally nowhere else to go, but anything less is not enough.

In any case, death has become meaningless. There is so much death in films, TV, games - but not in real life* - that people have become desensitised to the idea of it. Thus it becomes just another insult. All the impact is at the receiving end.



* Where it tends to be hidden and avoided, even in language. Previous generations were much more used to seeing it in person.


Good points.

Very depressing.

Truly impaired.
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If it walks like a duck etc… on 23:20 - Feb 23 with 4275 viewsSwansea_Blue

I wouldn’t want to be a Muslim in the UK right now. Crimes against Muslims comprise over a third of all hate crimes and with the likes of Braverman we’ve had an openly islsmophobic government. And now this latest push on the supposed influence of Islamists that seems a coordinated push from the Tories. The Tories have always had a problem with Islamophobia but the press remain pretty quiet about it.

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If it walks like a duck etc… on 23:22 - Feb 23 with 4251 viewsSwansea_Blue

If it walks like a duck etc… on 22:23 - Feb 23 by gtsb1966

Your last paragraph nearly describes this board. Swap the world with TWTD forum and get rid of cowardly and it would describe this board perfectly.
[Post edited 23 Feb 22:28]


It’s a lot better than it was when we were in the midst of the Brexit bollox, imo.

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If it walks like a duck etc… on 08:18 - Feb 24 with 3946 viewsDJR

If it walks like a duck etc… on 22:11 - Feb 23 by ArnoldMoorhen

There have been several generations of student demos, so it depends on which one you are talking about, but one student fees demo (Churchill mohican?) did lead to some of the impetus for the CJB, if I remember rightly.


It was one of the protests in November 2010 when students were kettled and there were some pretty heavy handed attacks on them by the police.
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If it walks like a duck etc… on 08:23 - Feb 24 with 3929 viewsDJR

If it walks like a duck etc… on 22:19 - Feb 23 by J2BLUE

When did death threats become so normalised?

Disagree about Gaza/Israel - death threats
Disagree with someone's views - death threats
Accidentally injure another player playing professional sport - death threats
Disagree with farming subsidies - death threats

The world is getting more and more divided with cowardly idiots behind screens going full tilt over any little thing.


I suppose in the olden days one might have watched a TV programme said "I hate Bob Monkhouse" not meaning it literally and not intending the comment to go beyond the living room

Nowadays people express such views openly on social media, and go much further presumably encouraged by social media echo chambers.

It is very depressing.

Why can't people just agree to disagree?
[Post edited 24 Feb 8:25]
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If it walks like a duck etc… on 08:25 - Feb 24 with 3916 viewsjayessess

If it walks like a duck etc… on 22:48 - Feb 23 by Guthrum

Under economic and social stress, everything is becoming polarised. Escalation is part of that process, to prove yourself acceptable to extremist communities, you have to act extreme. There is no place for nuance or moderation, especially not seeing another's point of view. Everything must be dialled up to the max.

Pretty soon, you hit the stop - which is wishing someone was dead. There is emotionally nowhere else to go, but anything less is not enough.

In any case, death has become meaningless. There is so much death in films, TV, games - but not in real life* - that people have become desensitised to the idea of it. Thus it becomes just another insult. All the impact is at the receiving end.



* Where it tends to be hidden and avoided, even in language. Previous generations were much more used to seeing it in person.


A lot of this is a bit hysterical, isn't it?

There's a massive tendency to put these things out of all historical context. In comparison to the 1970s, 1980s, even the 1990s, levels of political violence in this country are incredibly low.

If there's an increase in malicious communications, it's likely explained by the ease of modern communication rather than anything else. If you go through the correspondence files of prominent public figures from the past, they're also full of letters from violent weirdos wishing them ill.

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If it walks like a duck etc… on 08:34 - Feb 24 with 3893 viewsDJR

If it walks like a duck etc… on 23:20 - Feb 23 by Swansea_Blue

I wouldn’t want to be a Muslim in the UK right now. Crimes against Muslims comprise over a third of all hate crimes and with the likes of Braverman we’ve had an openly islsmophobic government. And now this latest push on the supposed influence of Islamists that seems a coordinated push from the Tories. The Tories have always had a problem with Islamophobia but the press remain pretty quiet about it.


Very true, but the right wing press only remain silent in the sense of not condemning it. When it comes to promoting it, they are at the forefront.

Just take this article in today's Telegraph.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/23/parliament-has-taken-the-knee-to-isl
[Post edited 24 Feb 8:34]
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If it walks like a duck etc… on 09:23 - Feb 24 with 3795 viewsbluelagos

If it walks like a duck etc… on 08:18 - Feb 24 by DJR

It was one of the protests in November 2010 when students were kettled and there were some pretty heavy handed attacks on them by the police.


Pretty heavy handed...is some understatement.

Alfie Meadows' was left with life threatening brain injuries. The police/cps also prosecuted him, those charges failing in 2013.

Fast forward and charges against a policeman for that assault were dropped as it was claimed it was another policeman who struck him. The policeman had not been identified / charged as the police have failed to identify him.

The Met have apologised and paid compensation but the officer remains protected by those who chose rather than identifying the criminal in their midst, rather to protect him.

Amazing how many bad apples have mates willing to not see their criminal activities.

Corrupt to the core.

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If it walks like a duck etc… on 09:41 - Feb 24 with 3754 viewsGuthrum

If it walks like a duck etc… on 08:25 - Feb 24 by jayessess

A lot of this is a bit hysterical, isn't it?

There's a massive tendency to put these things out of all historical context. In comparison to the 1970s, 1980s, even the 1990s, levels of political violence in this country are incredibly low.

If there's an increase in malicious communications, it's likely explained by the ease of modern communication rather than anything else. If you go through the correspondence files of prominent public figures from the past, they're also full of letters from violent weirdos wishing them ill.


While it's true that the idiots find it easier to express themselves in a public fashion, parts of all those decades were also periods of significant economic and social stress, equally with polarisation (e.g. Thatcherism v the Militant Tendency).

Good Lord! Whatever is it?
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If it walks like a duck etc… on 09:54 - Feb 24 with 3714 viewsDJR

If it walks like a duck etc… on 09:23 - Feb 24 by bluelagos

Pretty heavy handed...is some understatement.

Alfie Meadows' was left with life threatening brain injuries. The police/cps also prosecuted him, those charges failing in 2013.

Fast forward and charges against a policeman for that assault were dropped as it was claimed it was another policeman who struck him. The policeman had not been identified / charged as the police have failed to identify him.

The Met have apologised and paid compensation but the officer remains protected by those who chose rather than identifying the criminal in their midst, rather to protect him.

Amazing how many bad apples have mates willing to not see their criminal activities.

Corrupt to the core.


Being prosecuted and then waiting 13 years to receive compensation is shocking.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/sep/15/met-police-agree-six-figure-payo

As regards the following (from the Guardian) about the panel which cleared the officer in 2019, this does not accord with my view of what went on because the violence I saw was only one way, although I didn't see the particular incident.

"In its decision, the panel cited evidence from senior police officers who said the protest had been “one of the most difficult public order incidents in which they had been involved”.

“It represented a multidimensional threat which they had never seen before and have not seen since.”

As a result of that assessment, the panel said they had difficulty accepting portions of Meadows’s testimony after he told them that he had seen no protesters behaving violently towards police during the hours he spent at the protest.

“We struggle to consider how Mr Meadows would not have seen that there was aggression on the part of some protesters,” the panel said. “We must consider the objectivity of his testimony.”
[Post edited 24 Feb 9:57]
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If it walks like a duck etc… on 10:40 - Feb 24 with 3611 viewsoldbeardy

If it walks like a duck etc… on 09:54 - Feb 24 by DJR

Being prosecuted and then waiting 13 years to receive compensation is shocking.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/sep/15/met-police-agree-six-figure-payo

As regards the following (from the Guardian) about the panel which cleared the officer in 2019, this does not accord with my view of what went on because the violence I saw was only one way, although I didn't see the particular incident.

"In its decision, the panel cited evidence from senior police officers who said the protest had been “one of the most difficult public order incidents in which they had been involved”.

“It represented a multidimensional threat which they had never seen before and have not seen since.”

As a result of that assessment, the panel said they had difficulty accepting portions of Meadows’s testimony after he told them that he had seen no protesters behaving violently towards police during the hours he spent at the protest.

“We struggle to consider how Mr Meadows would not have seen that there was aggression on the part of some protesters,” the panel said. “We must consider the objectivity of his testimony.”
[Post edited 24 Feb 9:57]


I was responsible for one of the Whitehall buildings during the protest and therefore saw first hand, including via live feeds from the security cameras around the vicinity, some of what went on. I certainly don't condone any violence on the part of the police but the behaviour of a significant minority of protesters was disgraceful and most definitely required urgent and sustained intervention from the police to prevent even more serious disorder.
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If it walks like a duck etc… on 10:45 - Feb 24 with 3601 viewsleitrimblue

If it walks like a duck etc… on 08:34 - Feb 24 by DJR

Very true, but the right wing press only remain silent in the sense of not condemning it. When it comes to promoting it, they are at the forefront.

Just take this article in today's Telegraph.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/23/parliament-has-taken-the-knee-to-isl
[Post edited 24 Feb 8:34]


That's an absolutely sickening article. The state of the right wing press in the UK is shocking.
You just know there will be plenty of morons lapping it up and repeating the same sickening rhetoric
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If it walks like a duck etc… on 10:50 - Feb 24 with 3570 viewsleitrimblue

If it walks like a duck etc… on 23:20 - Feb 23 by Swansea_Blue

I wouldn’t want to be a Muslim in the UK right now. Crimes against Muslims comprise over a third of all hate crimes and with the likes of Braverman we’ve had an openly islsmophobic government. And now this latest push on the supposed influence of Islamists that seems a coordinated push from the Tories. The Tories have always had a problem with Islamophobia but the press remain pretty quiet about it.


I imagine any second now our ardent anyi bullying and racism posters will be on here to condemn islamophobia in the Conservative party and society in general..
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If it walks like a duck etc… on 10:59 - Feb 24 with 3531 viewsSuperKieranMcKenna

If it walks like a duck etc… on 10:50 - Feb 24 by leitrimblue

I imagine any second now our ardent anyi bullying and racism posters will be on here to condemn islamophobia in the Conservative party and society in general..


The scary thing is reading Daily Mail comments, and seeing a fair number that thinks this incumbent government is too LIBERAL!
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