| Robin Hood took from the rich to feed the poor. on 09:08 - Mar 10 with 1891 views | Aviator |
It’s ridiculous the number of working age people in the UK who refuse to work. Work needs to be more attractive and not working less attractive. This seems to be a step in the right direction. This is not just about benefits (although that is a major part of it). Early retirement is also a problem.
I’m pretty confident it is Labour policy to scrap NI as well, although they have not yet talked about in explicit terms. |  | |  |
| Robin Hood took from the rich to feed the poor. on 09:39 - Mar 10 with 1827 views | bazza |
| Robin Hood took from the rich to feed the poor. on 09:08 - Mar 10 by Aviator |
It’s ridiculous the number of working age people in the UK who refuse to work. Work needs to be more attractive and not working less attractive. This seems to be a step in the right direction. This is not just about benefits (although that is a major part of it). Early retirement is also a problem.
I’m pretty confident it is Labour policy to scrap NI as well, although they have not yet talked about in explicit terms. |
The problem is, NI will get scrapped, income tax will get raised, to “simplify the way we are taxed”, they will then cut benefits, force people in to work, which will save billions, and still tell us there’s no money. This country is being bled dry. All the cuts to services over the last decade, and now they are telling us they can get more people in work, and afford to scrap NI .. Okie dokie . What there needs to be is more transparency on where all the money is going. |  | | |
| Robin Hood took from the rich to feed the poor. on 09:42 - Mar 10 with 1818 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Robin Hood took from the rich to feed the poor. on 09:08 - Mar 10 by Aviator |
It’s ridiculous the number of working age people in the UK who refuse to work. Work needs to be more attractive and not working less attractive. This seems to be a step in the right direction. This is not just about benefits (although that is a major part of it). Early retirement is also a problem.
I’m pretty confident it is Labour policy to scrap NI as well, although they have not yet talked about in explicit terms. |
How many people are refusing to work without good reason?
Or did you make that up?
Amazing how a massively underfunded health and social care system, with scarce mental health support available, leads to people being signed off more and for longer isn't it? | | | |
| Robin Hood took from the rich to feed the poor. on 09:46 - Mar 10 with 1778 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Robin Hood took from the rich to feed the poor. on 09:39 - Mar 10 by bazza |
The problem is, NI will get scrapped, income tax will get raised, to “simplify the way we are taxed”, they will then cut benefits, force people in to work, which will save billions, and still tell us there’s no money. This country is being bled dry. All the cuts to services over the last decade, and now they are telling us they can get more people in work, and afford to scrap NI .. Okie dokie . What there needs to be is more transparency on where all the money is going. |
Its more smoke and mirrors.
They have set an agenda to make people belive that NI is unfair because they are "taxed twice". They can then deal with that unfairness. But of course, the money will have to come from elsewhere. Income tax will have to increase significantly.
The money is going on debt interest to a large extent. And this government has no plan or intention to reduce it. In fact they are increasing it.
The other key point about NI is that employers pay it too. Business would love NI scrapped. [Post edited 10 Mar 9:51]
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| Robin Hood took from the rich to feed the poor. on 09:48 - Mar 10 with 1767 views | leitrimblue |
| Robin Hood took from the rich to feed the poor. on 09:08 - Mar 10 by Aviator |
It’s ridiculous the number of working age people in the UK who refuse to work. Work needs to be more attractive and not working less attractive. This seems to be a step in the right direction. This is not just about benefits (although that is a major part of it). Early retirement is also a problem.
I’m pretty confident it is Labour policy to scrap NI as well, although they have not yet talked about in explicit terms. |
Isn't unemployment benefit about £60-£70 a week for a single person? And some people are struggling to live on £75, 000 a year? |  | | |
| Robin Hood took from the rich to feed the poor. on 09:49 - Mar 10 with 1758 views | DJR |
| Robin Hood took from the rich to feed the poor. on 09:08 - Mar 10 by Aviator |
It’s ridiculous the number of working age people in the UK who refuse to work. Work needs to be more attractive and not working less attractive. This seems to be a step in the right direction. This is not just about benefits (although that is a major part of it). Early retirement is also a problem.
I’m pretty confident it is Labour policy to scrap NI as well, although they have not yet talked about in explicit terms. |
Talk of scrapping NI is a nonsense and a smokescreen, given that in 2022/23 it was the second largest source of revenue after income tax.
Income tax brought in £250 billion, national insurance £178 billion and VAT £162 billion, these three taxes being way ahead of any other taxes. [Post edited 10 Mar 9:50]
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| Robin Hood took from the rich to feed the poor. on 10:05 - Mar 10 with 1700 views | Mercian |
| Robin Hood took from the rich to feed the poor. on 09:08 - Mar 10 by Aviator |
It’s ridiculous the number of working age people in the UK who refuse to work. Work needs to be more attractive and not working less attractive. This seems to be a step in the right direction. This is not just about benefits (although that is a major part of it). Early retirement is also a problem.
I’m pretty confident it is Labour policy to scrap NI as well, although they have not yet talked about in explicit terms. |
Utter tripe. I am out of work. I am well qualified, have good general experience and a good record. I served 22 years in The Army and left with the rank of Warrant Officer class 2 (Sergeant Major). I am 52 and have applied for many jobs even those below my level so to speak. I have to go to a partronising 5 hour group meeting in Derby once a week which is 14 miles away. They have a similar meeting in Nottingham which is only 8 miles away but as I live in Derbyshire I have to go to Derby. There have been no buses since the pandemic and I cannot afford to insure my car so I have to ask friends or family to take me. They tell me that employers do not descriminate against older people. When I pointed out to my 19 year old advisor that out of the 30 or so employees at the centre not one looked over 40 she just shruged it off. If you'e over 50 they don't want to know. Tell me, will cutting National Insurance benefit you? With respect attitudes like yours make me seeth. [Post edited 10 Mar 10:19]
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| Robin Hood took from the rich to feed the poor. on 10:06 - Mar 10 with 1693 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Robin Hood took from the rich to feed the poor. on 09:49 - Mar 10 by DJR |
Talk of scrapping NI is a nonsense and a smokescreen, given that in 2022/23 it was the second largest source of revenue after income tax.
Income tax brought in £250 billion, national insurance £178 billion and VAT £162 billion, these three taxes being way ahead of any other taxes. [Post edited 10 Mar 9:50]
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Doesn’t appear to be any plan to reduce employer contributions which make up the larger part of the NI pot.
Thing I find odd is that those of a certain age, currently non contributors of NI, are more likely to vote Tory yet unless pensioners receive a higher tax code will be hardest hit.
Surely we will have another budget in the autumn with a goody bag full of give aways for everyone. [Post edited 10 Mar 11:59]
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| Robin Hood took from the rich to feed the poor. on 10:23 - Mar 10 with 1638 views | noggin |
| Robin Hood took from the rich to feed the poor. on 09:08 - Mar 10 by Aviator |
It’s ridiculous the number of working age people in the UK who refuse to work. Work needs to be more attractive and not working less attractive. This seems to be a step in the right direction. This is not just about benefits (although that is a major part of it). Early retirement is also a problem.
I’m pretty confident it is Labour policy to scrap NI as well, although they have not yet talked about in explicit terms. |
"Early retirement is also a problem."
How so? Early retirement has nothing to do with the state pension, or am I missing your point? |  |
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| Robin Hood took from the rich to feed the poor. on 10:25 - Mar 10 with 1625 views | Churchman |
| Robin Hood took from the rich to feed the poor. on 09:08 - Mar 10 by Aviator |
It’s ridiculous the number of working age people in the UK who refuse to work. Work needs to be more attractive and not working less attractive. This seems to be a step in the right direction. This is not just about benefits (although that is a major part of it). Early retirement is also a problem.
I’m pretty confident it is Labour policy to scrap NI as well, although they have not yet talked about in explicit terms. |
What is the number of ‘working age people’ who refuse to work? Who are they? Why are they not working? What percentage choose benefits as a lifestyle? What work do you describe as ‘attractive’? Or do you mean force all people to do anything to avoid starvation?
What do you define as working age? Age 5 until you die? - this was happened in Victorian times and considered perfectly normal. Child Labour was considered good for children and there was no need to worry about old age because only the better off had a chance of reaching it. Do you consider this the nirvana the tories clearly do?
If state pension is raised to 70, then that’ll be ‘working age’. What work is on offer to a 69 year old seeking it? I know that the older you are the harder it is to get work. Fact. Some people are forced to retire early because of this. Others like me chose to retire early because I could. I’d had enough and life is too short. What’s wrong with that? I still pay tax and I spend money in the economy.
I think you need to quantify what you mean by your first sentence.
With regard to scrapping NI/reduce taxes again, what sort of society do you want? We have roads full of holes, no defence worthy of the name, court rooms, schools, infrastructure falling apart, good people of the NHS doing their best for people in an underfunded service. Yet the current government seem to want things worse or it thinks the private sector will provide (it won’t, it never did).
There is no magic wand here. Straight choice. A society or a dog eat dog unhappy, unpleasant survival of the fittest Victorian/pre-victorian world. |  | | |
| Robin Hood took from the rich to feed the poor. on 10:46 - Mar 10 with 1579 views | J2BLUE |
| Robin Hood took from the rich to feed the poor. on 09:08 - Mar 10 by Aviator |
It’s ridiculous the number of working age people in the UK who refuse to work. Work needs to be more attractive and not working less attractive. This seems to be a step in the right direction. This is not just about benefits (although that is a major part of it). Early retirement is also a problem.
I’m pretty confident it is Labour policy to scrap NI as well, although they have not yet talked about in explicit terms. |
How many refuse to work without good reason?
What is really ridiculous is people like you who have totally bought into the idea that if you don't want to work every hour you can then you are somehow lazy. It's a short life and there are not many jobs which make a proper difference in the world. I can't blame anyone who doesn't want to work. Neither do I (but yes, I do work). Who wants to waste their life doing something pointless? Getting a bit off topic now as most people who are out of work are not out of work by choice but I do feel the above is a good point.
I will wait to see your evidence of the number of people who refuse to work... |  |
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| Robin Hood took from the rich to feed the poor. on 11:54 - Mar 10 with 1501 views | DJR |
| Robin Hood took from the rich to feed the poor. on 10:05 - Mar 10 by Mercian |
Utter tripe. I am out of work. I am well qualified, have good general experience and a good record. I served 22 years in The Army and left with the rank of Warrant Officer class 2 (Sergeant Major). I am 52 and have applied for many jobs even those below my level so to speak. I have to go to a partronising 5 hour group meeting in Derby once a week which is 14 miles away. They have a similar meeting in Nottingham which is only 8 miles away but as I live in Derbyshire I have to go to Derby. There have been no buses since the pandemic and I cannot afford to insure my car so I have to ask friends or family to take me. They tell me that employers do not descriminate against older people. When I pointed out to my 19 year old advisor that out of the 30 or so employees at the centre not one looked over 40 she just shruged it off. If you'e over 50 they don't want to know. Tell me, will cutting National Insurance benefit you? With respect attitudes like yours make me seeth. [Post edited 10 Mar 10:19]
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I think your experience is far from unusual, with many older people laid off in the last ten years or so and not able to get any work with pay or standing comparable to their previous employment.
Then again, real average wages will only get back to 2008 levels in 2026, which is pretty appalling too.
But let's blame "the undeserving poor". [Post edited 10 Mar 12:07]
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| Robin Hood took from the rich to feed the poor. on 18:48 - Mar 10 with 1349 views | factual_blue |
| Robin Hood took from the rich to feed the poor. on 09:08 - Mar 10 by Aviator |
It’s ridiculous the number of working age people in the UK who refuse to work. Work needs to be more attractive and not working less attractive. This seems to be a step in the right direction. This is not just about benefits (although that is a major part of it). Early retirement is also a problem.
I’m pretty confident it is Labour policy to scrap NI as well, although they have not yet talked about in explicit terms. |
Around 3.6 million adults (in the 16-64 age group) in the UK have never been paid for work, our analysis has shown.
More than 55% are full-time students, 95% of them are aged 16-24.
180,000 are students not in full-time education. They include those on part-time courses, correspondence courses or doing professional training (such as nursing training).
Almost 250,000 are currently unemployed, that means they are actively seeking work. Two-thirds of these job seekers are aged 16 to 24 years and most have only started seeking work in the last year.
More than 510,000 say they’re looking after the family or home. They’re predominantly women (94%), many of who (44%) are looking after a baby or a toddler (a dependent child aged three years or younger).
A further 440,000 are either short- or long-term sick. Nearly 90% of those who report themselves as sick say they’re disabled – they have a physical or mental impairment that has a substantial and long-term impact on their ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities.
Nearly 40,000 are retired, although we can’t be sure what they did before retiring. We can only say for sure that they’re not working or looking for work, they say they’ve never done paid work, and the reason they give is they’re retired. They may have spent their working life in unpaid work.
That leaves a remainder of 190,000 people, just 5% of the original 3.6 million. We can break them down a bit further – 16,000 are awaiting the results of a job application, 10,000 are “discouraged workers” (they believe there is no point in looking), and 15,000 say they don’t need a job. A further 28,000 – most of them young people – are “not yet looking” for a job.
So your massive problem amounts to 190,000 people at most.
You can read all of these on the ONS website, a good place to start if you're interested in proper statistics and data.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peoplenotinwork/economicinactiv [Post edited 10 Mar 19:04]
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| Robin Hood took from the rich to feed the poor. on 19:03 - Mar 10 with 1330 views | factual_blue |
| Robin Hood took from the rich to feed the poor. on 09:42 - Mar 10 by redrickstuhaart |
How many people are refusing to work without good reason?
Or did you make that up?
Amazing how a massively underfunded health and social care system, with scarce mental health support available, leads to people being signed off more and for longer isn't it? |
This is the absolute truth.
When Michael Howard was Employment Secretary under thatcher, he and the Cabinet were freaking out about rising, long-term unemployment. He ordered his Civil Servants to find ways to reduce the numbers.
Howard was told unemployed people on Supplementary Benefit (ie those with no entitlement to Unemployment Benefit) would get more money each week if they were signing sick rather than unemployed,
Staff who signed people on in the Unemployment Benefit Offices were encouraged (or more precisely told) to urge claimants who'd little more than a bit of a cold to see their GP and get signed on as sick. After at most 26 weeks they'd get a higher rate of benefit.
What was quickly discovered was that if you tell somebody they are sick, they get sicker. Long-term sickness soared out of control, but Howard kept unemployment down.
The average length of time, by the way, that somebody signed off sick remains is nine years. When I saw former Unemployment Benefit Officers told this for the first time, their jaws dropped. | |
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| Robin Hood took from the rich to feed the poor. on 19:20 - Mar 10 with 1272 views | Aviator |
| Robin Hood took from the rich to feed the poor. on 09:42 - Mar 10 by redrickstuhaart |
How many people are refusing to work without good reason?
Or did you make that up?
Amazing how a massively underfunded health and social care system, with scarce mental health support available, leads to people being signed off more and for longer isn't it? |
Well I personally know about loads. Probably 20 people. | | | |
| Robin Hood took from the rich to feed the poor. on 19:22 - Mar 10 with 1250 views | Aviator |
| Robin Hood took from the rich to feed the poor. on 10:05 - Mar 10 by Mercian |
Utter tripe. I am out of work. I am well qualified, have good general experience and a good record. I served 22 years in The Army and left with the rank of Warrant Officer class 2 (Sergeant Major). I am 52 and have applied for many jobs even those below my level so to speak. I have to go to a partronising 5 hour group meeting in Derby once a week which is 14 miles away. They have a similar meeting in Nottingham which is only 8 miles away but as I live in Derbyshire I have to go to Derby. There have been no buses since the pandemic and I cannot afford to insure my car so I have to ask friends or family to take me. They tell me that employers do not descriminate against older people. When I pointed out to my 19 year old advisor that out of the 30 or so employees at the centre not one looked over 40 she just shruged it off. If you'e over 50 they don't want to know. Tell me, will cutting National Insurance benefit you? With respect attitudes like yours make me seeth. [Post edited 10 Mar 10:19]
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Yes, but I’m not talking about people like you. You are clearly looking for work. | | | |
| Robin Hood took from the rich to feed the poor. on 19:25 - Mar 10 with 1229 views | Aviator |
| Robin Hood took from the rich to feed the poor. on 10:23 - Mar 10 by noggin |
"Early retirement is also a problem."
How so? Early retirement has nothing to do with the state pension, or am I missing your point? |
Yes, you are missing my point. If you are retired you are not contributing to the economy. You pay income tax on your pension but not NI. This is why NI should be merged with income tax. | | | |
| Robin Hood took from the rich to feed the poor. on 19:41 - Mar 10 with 1178 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Robin Hood took from the rich to feed the poor. on 19:25 - Mar 10 by Aviator |
Yes, you are missing my point. If you are retired you are not contributing to the economy. You pay income tax on your pension but not NI. This is why NI should be merged with income tax. |
Arguably you should not be taxed on your pension at all. That is money you have earned and already been taxed on.
The original idea of NI was you built up your contrbutions to entitle you to pension etc. Once you are there, why should you pay more? | | | |
| Robin Hood took from the rich to feed the poor. on 19:42 - Mar 10 with 1175 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Robin Hood took from the rich to feed the poor. on 19:22 - Mar 10 by Aviator |
Yes, but I’m not talking about people like you. You are clearly looking for work. |
How many people are choosing not to and what sort of a life do you think they are able to lead?
Do you have any idea how limited benefits are? | | | |
| Robin Hood took from the rich to feed the poor. on 19:52 - Mar 10 with 1139 views | Aviator |
| Robin Hood took from the rich to feed the poor. on 19:41 - Mar 10 by redrickstuhaart |
Arguably you should not be taxed on your pension at all. That is money you have earned and already been taxed on.
The original idea of NI was you built up your contrbutions to entitle you to pension etc. Once you are there, why should you pay more? |
You get tax relief on pension contributions. Or at least I do on mine. | | | |
| Robin Hood took from the rich to feed the poor. on 19:53 - Mar 10 with 1130 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Robin Hood took from the rich to feed the poor. on 19:52 - Mar 10 by Aviator |
You get tax relief on pension contributions. Or at least I do on mine. |
Relief- yes. To a point. | | | |
| Robin Hood took from the rich to feed the poor. on 19:54 - Mar 10 with 1128 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Robin Hood took from the rich to feed the poor. on 19:53 - Mar 10 by redrickstuhaart |
Relief- yes. To a point. |
How many people are choosing not to and what sort of a life do you think they are able to lead?
Do you have any idea how limited benefits are? | | | |
| Robin Hood took from the rich to feed the poor. on 19:54 - Mar 10 with 1128 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Robin Hood took from the rich to feed the poor. on 19:25 - Mar 10 by Aviator |
Yes, you are missing my point. If you are retired you are not contributing to the economy. You pay income tax on your pension but not NI. This is why NI should be merged with income tax. |
Except for tax on savings, VAT, income tax on any trust income (if people retire early, they’ll still need to generate an income), possible capital gains and any other contribution they make to the economy through volunteer roles or helping out with gran kids child care allowing both parents to go out to work.
Or in short, there’s no problem with early retirement (other than not enough people will have the chance to enjoy it). |  |
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| Robin Hood took from the rich to feed the poor. on 19:57 - Mar 10 with 1119 views | factual_blue |
| Robin Hood took from the rich to feed the poor. on 19:20 - Mar 10 by Aviator |
Well I personally know about loads. Probably 20 people. |
So, twenty out of the 190,000 then? | |
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| Robin Hood took from the rich to feed the poor. on 20:02 - Mar 10 with 1113 views | factual_blue |
| Robin Hood took from the rich to feed the poor. on 19:25 - Mar 10 by Aviator |
Yes, you are missing my point. If you are retired you are not contributing to the economy. You pay income tax on your pension but not NI. This is why NI should be merged with income tax. |
What utter twoddle. | |
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