| Farage 09:56 - Jun 28 with 5862 views | BlueNomad |
He can "disown" people who show their true colours but he has created the monster. It is all on him, not that people in the Clacton constituency will be concerned. |  | | |  |
| Farage on 10:02 - Jun 28 with 3771 views | MattinLondon |
Racist party attracts racist volunteers, racist candidates and racist voters.
I’m shocked. |  | | |
| Farage on 10:12 - Jun 28 with 3729 views | SWGF |
There's a reason why UKIP targeted Clacton before Reform had a go. They couldn't handpick a better demographic for their requirements. |  |
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| Farage on 10:20 - Jun 28 with 3676 views | ElephantintheRoom |
It’s a little deeper than that - he’s peddling the immigrant ticket that the tories have been pushing for years to appeal to a racist rump that may well be a majority of voters in this country. As he’s cohabiting with an immigrant and spawned two Nigelettes with another immigrant you can be fairly sure he doesn’t believe a word he says and is simply in it for the money.
A bit like most politicians really - but perhaps better at getting self publicity and moneterising his performance. Even the riffraff he’s put forward as candidates is largely the fault of the government - there’s hardly been a wealth of time for a party of 2 to vet a few hundred candidates. |  |
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| Farage on 10:36 - Jun 28 with 3646 views | Pencilpete |
| Farage on 10:20 - Jun 28 by ElephantintheRoom |
It’s a little deeper than that - he’s peddling the immigrant ticket that the tories have been pushing for years to appeal to a racist rump that may well be a majority of voters in this country. As he’s cohabiting with an immigrant and spawned two Nigelettes with another immigrant you can be fairly sure he doesn’t believe a word he says and is simply in it for the money.
A bit like most politicians really - but perhaps better at getting self publicity and moneterising his performance. Even the riffraff he’s put forward as candidates is largely the fault of the government - there’s hardly been a wealth of time for a party of 2 to vet a few hundred candidates. |
Starmer needs to ace the next 5 years IMO
because if things don't improve .... the support for Farage / Reform is only going to increase as people get more and more frustrated. | | | |
| Farage on 11:00 - Jun 28 with 3555 views | leitrimblue |
| Farage on 10:36 - Jun 28 by Pencilpete |
Starmer needs to ace the next 5 years IMO
because if things don't improve .... the support for Farage / Reform is only going to increase as people get more and more frustrated. |
I have similar fears Pete. If large swathes of the country feel unrepresented and disenfranchised in this election. Unless Starmer nails it ( which isn't exactly an easy task and 1 I have minimal faith he will achieve) who the feck are all these disenfranchised people gonna turn to at the next election?
Tories are almost finished as a political party. Labour would be seen as having had their chance.
Have a horrible feeling that vacuum is gonna be filled with far right chancers like Farage/Reform.
Hopefully I'm wrong |  | | |
| Farage on 11:02 - Jun 28 with 3532 views | Pencilpete |
| Farage on 11:00 - Jun 28 by leitrimblue |
I have similar fears Pete. If large swathes of the country feel unrepresented and disenfranchised in this election. Unless Starmer nails it ( which isn't exactly an easy task and 1 I have minimal faith he will achieve) who the feck are all these disenfranchised people gonna turn to at the next election?
Tories are almost finished as a political party. Labour would be seen as having had their chance.
Have a horrible feeling that vacuum is gonna be filled with far right chancers like Farage/Reform.
Hopefully I'm wrong |
it's pretty much what happened with Brexit isn't ?
there was alot of grumbling about the EU in the years building up to that referendum, both Labour and the Tories dismissed the concerns, people felt they weren't being listened to and everyone voted for Farage ... he is the ultimate protest vote ! | | | |
| Farage on 11:06 - Jun 28 with 3500 views | soupytwist |
| Farage on 11:02 - Jun 28 by Pencilpete |
it's pretty much what happened with Brexit isn't ?
there was alot of grumbling about the EU in the years building up to that referendum, both Labour and the Tories dismissed the concerns, people felt they weren't being listened to and everyone voted for Farage ... he is the ultimate protest vote ! |
"everyone voted for Farage" - 52% of those who voted, voted to leave the EU. Not 52% of the electorate, and not everyone.
I'm not saying that we can dismiss the fears expressed about the next general election in this thread, but the whole 'will of the people' thing gets on my nerves. It was the will of some of the people. Not even most of the people. |  | | |
| Farage on 11:07 - Jun 28 with 3495 views | Buhrer |
| Farage on 11:00 - Jun 28 by leitrimblue |
I have similar fears Pete. If large swathes of the country feel unrepresented and disenfranchised in this election. Unless Starmer nails it ( which isn't exactly an easy task and 1 I have minimal faith he will achieve) who the feck are all these disenfranchised people gonna turn to at the next election?
Tories are almost finished as a political party. Labour would be seen as having had their chance.
Have a horrible feeling that vacuum is gonna be filled with far right chancers like Farage/Reform.
Hopefully I'm wrong |
I'm thinking it will be kind of
 |  | | |
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| Farage on 11:17 - Jun 28 with 3452 views | Pencilpete |
| Farage on 11:06 - Jun 28 by soupytwist |
"everyone voted for Farage" - 52% of those who voted, voted to leave the EU. Not 52% of the electorate, and not everyone.
I'm not saying that we can dismiss the fears expressed about the next general election in this thread, but the whole 'will of the people' thing gets on my nerves. It was the will of some of the people. Not even most of the people. |
If 52% of the people who voted, not 52% of the electorate and not everyone voted for Nigel Farage next Thursday, he'd probably be in Downing Street on Friday morning !!
My point is that alot of people (myself included i'll be honest) think immigration numbers are too high and Starmer doesn't tackle it in some way or another ... the 'problem' escalates then like with Brexit you'll see a large number of voters whose thought process is "Tories didn't action it, Labour didn't action it so i'll go with the extreme solution" | | | |
| Farage on 11:38 - Jun 28 with 3395 views | leitrimblue |
| Farage on 11:02 - Jun 28 by Pencilpete |
it's pretty much what happened with Brexit isn't ?
there was alot of grumbling about the EU in the years building up to that referendum, both Labour and the Tories dismissed the concerns, people felt they weren't being listened to and everyone voted for Farage ... he is the ultimate protest vote ! |
I'd say it was probably similar enough. I don't live in the UK, but most of my family that do including both my parents live in Haverhill. My mother told me a few days before the Brexit vote that she didn't know anyone apart from one 'hippy' sister who was voting remain.
It was almost like she/ they didn't know of any other option.
The thing is our family is spread out all over Europe at this point any many of us, myself included have partners and children that aren't English.
I explained that voting leave would probably make it very hard for many of us to return but really couldn't get through.
Brexit is now added to the many subjects not allowed to be discussed at family weddings and funerals etc..  | | | |
| Farage on 11:41 - Jun 28 with 3376 views | Herbivore |
| Farage on 11:17 - Jun 28 by Pencilpete |
If 52% of the people who voted, not 52% of the electorate and not everyone voted for Nigel Farage next Thursday, he'd probably be in Downing Street on Friday morning !!
My point is that alot of people (myself included i'll be honest) think immigration numbers are too high and Starmer doesn't tackle it in some way or another ... the 'problem' escalates then like with Brexit you'll see a large number of voters whose thought process is "Tories didn't action it, Labour didn't action it so i'll go with the extreme solution" |
Would you not rather Starmer focuses on fixing the NHS, improving education at all levels, improving infrastructure, including building more affordable housing, and growing the economy rather than reducing immigration? Why has that become a top priority for you and others when having fewer immigrants isn't likely to materially improve your life? |  |
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| Farage on 11:46 - Jun 28 with 3357 views | Pencilpete |
| Farage on 11:38 - Jun 28 by leitrimblue |
I'd say it was probably similar enough. I don't live in the UK, but most of my family that do including both my parents live in Haverhill. My mother told me a few days before the Brexit vote that she didn't know anyone apart from one 'hippy' sister who was voting remain.
It was almost like she/ they didn't know of any other option.
The thing is our family is spread out all over Europe at this point any many of us, myself included have partners and children that aren't English.
I explained that voting leave would probably make it very hard for many of us to return but really couldn't get through.
Brexit is now added to the many subjects not allowed to be discussed at family weddings and funerals etc.. |
i'd say 95% of people didn't actually want to leave the EU, they didn't like all the red tape and BS that came with it .... for example i work in shipping and in 2011 we had the health authorites reject a container of fish because of what was very clearly a typing error (of 1 digit) on the health certificate - the health officer told us he knew it was an error, he knew there was nothing wrong with it but he HAD to reject it because of EU legislation ... those are the kind of frustrations people had
in 1975 we joined on the basis of free movement of goods and people but over the years we were signed up to European parliament, courts and god knows what else without getting a say in it and people slowly got fed up of it ..... if it was still free movement of goods and people then theres no way anyone would have wanted to leave | | | |
| Farage on 12:05 - Jun 28 with 3227 views | BlueNomad |
| Farage on 10:12 - Jun 28 by SWGF |
There's a reason why UKIP targeted Clacton before Reform had a go. They couldn't handpick a better demographic for their requirements. |
Spot on! | | | |
| Farage on 12:13 - Jun 28 with 3177 views | Tangledupin_Blue |
| Farage on 11:46 - Jun 28 by Pencilpete |
i'd say 95% of people didn't actually want to leave the EU, they didn't like all the red tape and BS that came with it .... for example i work in shipping and in 2011 we had the health authorites reject a container of fish because of what was very clearly a typing error (of 1 digit) on the health certificate - the health officer told us he knew it was an error, he knew there was nothing wrong with it but he HAD to reject it because of EU legislation ... those are the kind of frustrations people had
in 1975 we joined on the basis of free movement of goods and people but over the years we were signed up to European parliament, courts and god knows what else without getting a say in it and people slowly got fed up of it ..... if it was still free movement of goods and people then theres no way anyone would have wanted to leave |
Sorry but to say we had no say in the evolution of the European institutions is just plain nonsense.
And I don't believe your first paragraph either though you may believe it happened that way. |  |
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| Farage on 12:19 - Jun 28 with 3154 views | Tangledupin_Blue |
| Farage on 10:12 - Jun 28 by SWGF |
There's a reason why UKIP targeted Clacton before Reform had a go. They couldn't handpick a better demographic for their requirements. |
It is not that they specifically targeted Clacton. In about 2014 the sitting MP was tory Douglas Carswell and he defected to UKIP and stood down from being MP, then won the resulting by-election for UKIP. Then they held it in the next election. It is the only Commons seat UKIP has ever held.
I am going from memory... I may have the wrong year. [Post edited 28 Jun 2024 12:23]
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| Farage on 12:26 - Jun 28 with 3093 views | Plums |
| Farage on 12:13 - Jun 28 by Tangledupin_Blue |
Sorry but to say we had no say in the evolution of the European institutions is just plain nonsense.
And I don't believe your first paragraph either though you may believe it happened that way. |
The vast majority of the public couldn't have given two hoots about the EU until Farage started tearing the Tories apart and David shat himself to try and save the party.
The rewriting of the narrative is astonishing isn't it? |  |
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| Farage on 12:29 - Jun 28 with 3072 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| Farage on 11:46 - Jun 28 by Pencilpete |
i'd say 95% of people didn't actually want to leave the EU, they didn't like all the red tape and BS that came with it .... for example i work in shipping and in 2011 we had the health authorites reject a container of fish because of what was very clearly a typing error (of 1 digit) on the health certificate - the health officer told us he knew it was an error, he knew there was nothing wrong with it but he HAD to reject it because of EU legislation ... those are the kind of frustrations people had
in 1975 we joined on the basis of free movement of goods and people but over the years we were signed up to European parliament, courts and god knows what else without getting a say in it and people slowly got fed up of it ..... if it was still free movement of goods and people then theres no way anyone would have wanted to leave |
So the shipping industry is better off now we've left the EU? And I presume all that red tape and BS has now disappeared? |  |
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| Farage on 12:29 - Jun 28 with 3070 views | soupytwist |
| Farage on 11:46 - Jun 28 by Pencilpete |
i'd say 95% of people didn't actually want to leave the EU, they didn't like all the red tape and BS that came with it .... for example i work in shipping and in 2011 we had the health authorites reject a container of fish because of what was very clearly a typing error (of 1 digit) on the health certificate - the health officer told us he knew it was an error, he knew there was nothing wrong with it but he HAD to reject it because of EU legislation ... those are the kind of frustrations people had
in 1975 we joined on the basis of free movement of goods and people but over the years we were signed up to European parliament, courts and god knows what else without getting a say in it and people slowly got fed up of it ..... if it was still free movement of goods and people then theres no way anyone would have wanted to leave |
The EU Parliament and court (which is kind of essential if you're going to be able to decide on disputes between national institutions/governments and the EU itself and ensure that EU laws are applied across all the states) came before free movement of people, goods, services and capital was a reality.
Have you had any run ins with red tape relating to international trade since we left the EU? | | | |
| Farage on 12:33 - Jun 28 with 3032 views | MattinLondon |
| Farage on 11:02 - Jun 28 by Pencilpete |
it's pretty much what happened with Brexit isn't ?
there was alot of grumbling about the EU in the years building up to that referendum, both Labour and the Tories dismissed the concerns, people felt they weren't being listened to and everyone voted for Farage ... he is the ultimate protest vote ! |
I find it frustrating that people legitimatise voting for racist and xenophobic political parties by describing it as a ‘protest vote’. It was the same twenty years ago when the BNP gained a lot of momentum. When people vote for parties like that they know full well what they are doing - it’s not a protest, it’s voting for extremism.
Farage doesn’t make it a habit of saying openly racist things - he draws the picture and his supporters colour it in. Some on here may well try to kid themselves to what a vote for him is but they are simply deluding themselves. | | | |
| Farage on 13:17 - Jun 28 with 2939 views | Pencilpete |
| Farage on 12:13 - Jun 28 by Tangledupin_Blue |
Sorry but to say we had no say in the evolution of the European institutions is just plain nonsense.
And I don't believe your first paragraph either though you may believe it happened that way. |
You don't believe my first paragraph ... why would i make that up ? and yes, that is EXACTLY what happened i didn't hear it second hand or third hand ... i was personally dealing with it.
in response to the other replies ..... i never said i agreed with it, i'm offering an explanation as to why it happened and that if large numbers of people have concerns about something it's better for the bigger more established parties to find solutions rather than dismiss it and then people would have no reason to vote for the likes of Nigel Farage. | | | |
| Farage on 13:28 - Jun 28 with 2894 views | Pencilpete |
| Farage on 11:41 - Jun 28 by Herbivore |
Would you not rather Starmer focuses on fixing the NHS, improving education at all levels, improving infrastructure, including building more affordable housing, and growing the economy rather than reducing immigration? Why has that become a top priority for you and others when having fewer immigrants isn't likely to materially improve your life? |
I'd rather he dealt with all of it if i'm honest !!
Farage is right about one thing - the large number of nett migration is increasing the population too quickly for our Public services like the NHS, Housing etc to cope.
Thats not me being anti immigration because i've said before immigrants bring alot more positives than negatives but there does need to be some kind of slowing down of the numbers because 600-750k every year simply isn't sustainable on any level.
If you increase demand on ANY service without improving that service then it's going to struggle - it's all about supply and demand, you need to lower demand and increase supply and the only answer to that is increase investment to improve supply and lower immigration for a period to slow up the demand.
As an example - You can't get 50k supporters into Portman Road every week, the limit is 30k so there has to come a point where you stop letting supporters in and thats nothing against the ones waiting outside and if you keep letting supporters in then as well as being like sardines in a tin there wouldn't be enough programmes, enough hot dogs, pints .....
the solution is to expand the stadium but in the meantime stop them coming in, get more beers, more hot dogs and programmes ordered and then when you've got your house in order and the stadium is expanded and you know you can cope THEN you open the doors again
To me thats just common sense ??? | | | |
| Farage on 13:53 - Jun 28 with 2824 views | Herbivore |
| Farage on 13:28 - Jun 28 by Pencilpete |
I'd rather he dealt with all of it if i'm honest !!
Farage is right about one thing - the large number of nett migration is increasing the population too quickly for our Public services like the NHS, Housing etc to cope.
Thats not me being anti immigration because i've said before immigrants bring alot more positives than negatives but there does need to be some kind of slowing down of the numbers because 600-750k every year simply isn't sustainable on any level.
If you increase demand on ANY service without improving that service then it's going to struggle - it's all about supply and demand, you need to lower demand and increase supply and the only answer to that is increase investment to improve supply and lower immigration for a period to slow up the demand.
As an example - You can't get 50k supporters into Portman Road every week, the limit is 30k so there has to come a point where you stop letting supporters in and thats nothing against the ones waiting outside and if you keep letting supporters in then as well as being like sardines in a tin there wouldn't be enough programmes, enough hot dogs, pints .....
the solution is to expand the stadium but in the meantime stop them coming in, get more beers, more hot dogs and programmes ordered and then when you've got your house in order and the stadium is expanded and you know you can cope THEN you open the doors again
To me thats just common sense ??? |
But people migrating to the UK are usually of working age and contributing to the economy, they are also less likely to be frequently using the NHS because they tend to be healthy working age people. If you stop them coming in, who is funding and staffing the NHS in their absence? Your analogy of PR doesn't really work, there is a hard limit on how many people you can fit into a stadium and that's not the case for a country, otherwise what do you do when you stop immigration and there's still too much demand for services and you've damaged the supply chain by stopping immigration? Do you then start deporting people? Do you start bumping off older people and people with disabilities because we can't meet the needs of the population anymore? What you've said isn't common sense I'm afraid, it's way too simplistic and doesn't address the complex reasons why the country is on its knees. | |
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| Farage on 14:15 - Jun 28 with 2744 views | Eireannach_gorm |
| Farage on 10:36 - Jun 28 by Pencilpete |
Starmer needs to ace the next 5 years IMO
because if things don't improve .... the support for Farage / Reform is only going to increase as people get more and more frustrated. |
If Labour can't improve matters there is F all chance that Reform can. |  | | |
| Farage on 14:29 - Jun 28 with 2692 views | Pencilpete |
| Farage on 13:53 - Jun 28 by Herbivore |
But people migrating to the UK are usually of working age and contributing to the economy, they are also less likely to be frequently using the NHS because they tend to be healthy working age people. If you stop them coming in, who is funding and staffing the NHS in their absence? Your analogy of PR doesn't really work, there is a hard limit on how many people you can fit into a stadium and that's not the case for a country, otherwise what do you do when you stop immigration and there's still too much demand for services and you've damaged the supply chain by stopping immigration? Do you then start deporting people? Do you start bumping off older people and people with disabilities because we can't meet the needs of the population anymore? What you've said isn't common sense I'm afraid, it's way too simplistic and doesn't address the complex reasons why the country is on its knees. |
I didn't say stop them - i said reduce it to a more manageable number while we improve public services to be able to cope.
Also, just to reiterate I don't think that immigration is THE problem, i agree with you that there are several issues that all need to be addressed but a population increasing at the rate that it is certainly isn't helping .... and if this useless government had improved the NHS and built new surgeries and houses and improved public services to go in line with the increase then it wouldn't be a problem at all. But the fact of the matter is they haven't and as a result those public services can't cope with the demands.
For example - why are there hundreds of hotels packed out with immigrants ? because we haven't got anywhere else to put them would be my answer ?!! | | | |
| Farage on 14:31 - Jun 28 with 2686 views | HairBearBunch |
| Farage on 10:02 - Jun 28 by MattinLondon |
Racist party attracts racist volunteers, racist candidates and racist voters.
I’m shocked. |
As a never-voting-for-them-again ex-conservative voter, I'm completely undecided.
But the reform candidate standing where some friends are doesn't strike me as being racist - Kabeer Kher (Mid Norfolk)
Same for some old mates Reform candidate down Bicester way - Augustine Obodo |  | | |
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