| Philogene update 07:47 - Jul 11 with 16486 views | Parky |
Now arrived in Turkey where the rest of the Hull team are, according to their local press. He didn’t travel originally with them, if you look at previous tweets.
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| Philogene update on 08:59 - Jul 11 with 2559 views | kiwiblue |
| Philogene update on 08:53 - Jul 11 by ITFCBlues |
Interesting how the Hull end still seem to believe we're the favourites to get him. |
I like the one about him going to get his phone charger from a mate maybe to tell his agent not to be a total D88K |  | | |
| Philogene update on 09:00 - Jul 11 with 2551 views | budgiebasher |
I just hope that the Philogene saga dragging on doesn’t cause the Greaves deal to fall apart. If Everton sell Branthwaite to Utd they could quite easily scupper the double deal I would have thought by then outbidding us for JP and JC |  |
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| Philogene update on 09:02 - Jul 11 with 2513 views | trncbluearmy |
Sort of fits in with the annoucment on Friday theory that has been suggested
Istanbul by private jet is pretty quick
24 hours to kill,
deal done,
say your goodbyes,
back to Blighty. |  | | |
| Philogene update on 09:03 - Jul 11 with 2484 views | ITFCBlues |
| Philogene update on 08:58 - Jul 11 by tractorboy1978 |
Yes, wonder if Philogene is 'undervalued' in our double deal with Greaves and Villa matched it knowing we will have to renegotiate it. |
Sounds highly possible. There was a tweet from Sky which suggested that there was "more to meet the eye" with Villas interest. |  |
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| Philogene update on 09:08 - Jul 11 with 2397 views | NedPlimpton |
| Philogene update on 08:58 - Jul 11 by tractorboy1978 |
Yes, wonder if Philogene is 'undervalued' in our double deal with Greaves and Villa matched it knowing we will have to renegotiate it. |
If that was the case, wouldn't they have asked Greaves to join up with the training camp too?
Surely the Greaves deal is done, and we're just waiting on Philo to make a double announcement |  | | |
| Philogene update on 09:12 - Jul 11 with 2318 views | Asa |
| Philogene update on 08:58 - Jul 11 by tractorboy1978 |
Yes, wonder if Philogene is 'undervalued' in our double deal with Greaves and Villa matched it knowing we will have to renegotiate it. |
The fact Philogene has flown out and not Greaves does at least suggest that bit is done and sorted regardless of whether it ends up a double deal or not.
So presumably whatever would need to be tweaked paperwork wise is a formality or surely that deal would be at risk too and he'd be there as well.
What this does tell me, despite Fabrizio's suggestion that Jaden will decide soon is surely that's not the case. Why fly to Turkey to start training when you're moving imminently. Surely you'd not fly and start training Monday with your new club and keep yourself ticking over in the gym.
An absolutely farce this one. I'm incredibly patient with this sort of thing and it's sorted when it's sorted an even now I'm becoming drawn into the whole drama around him, Villa, the agent, Turkey. Absolute riddle. | | | |
| Philogene update on 09:21 - Jul 11 with 2162 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Philogene update on 09:12 - Jul 11 by Asa |
The fact Philogene has flown out and not Greaves does at least suggest that bit is done and sorted regardless of whether it ends up a double deal or not.
So presumably whatever would need to be tweaked paperwork wise is a formality or surely that deal would be at risk too and he'd be there as well.
What this does tell me, despite Fabrizio's suggestion that Jaden will decide soon is surely that's not the case. Why fly to Turkey to start training when you're moving imminently. Surely you'd not fly and start training Monday with your new club and keep yourself ticking over in the gym.
An absolutely farce this one. I'm incredibly patient with this sort of thing and it's sorted when it's sorted an even now I'm becoming drawn into the whole drama around him, Villa, the agent, Turkey. Absolute riddle. |
That is true.
The Greaves deal has all been 'done' since Sunday evening though. So I'd think there must be something tied to Philogene otherwise we would just announce Greaves surely. | | | |
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| Philogene update on 09:23 - Jul 11 with 2130 views | Asa |
| Philogene update on 09:02 - Jul 11 by trncbluearmy |
Sort of fits in with the annoucment on Friday theory that has been suggested
Istanbul by private jet is pretty quick
24 hours to kill,
deal done,
say your goodbyes,
back to Blighty. |
But no suggestion of any medical here though. Which is what makes no sense.
If he'd done a medical, agreed terms, Villa came in etc then this makes some sense. But if not then surely he's either heading here or to Villa for a medical, not heading to Turkey to train with Hull.
Sure he may want to say goodbye, knowing he can't do that if he signs somewhere as he'll be expected to be in training, but who puts a move in jeopardy to do that? You get the deal done and the medical and then worry about saying goodbye.
Unless he's such an amazing character fit for Ashton and McKenna he simply has to fly thousands of miles to personally thank people ahead of a move he's not even made! | | | |
| Philogene update on 09:28 - Jul 11 with 2046 views | ITFCBlues |
| Philogene update on 09:23 - Jul 11 by Asa |
But no suggestion of any medical here though. Which is what makes no sense.
If he'd done a medical, agreed terms, Villa came in etc then this makes some sense. But if not then surely he's either heading here or to Villa for a medical, not heading to Turkey to train with Hull.
Sure he may want to say goodbye, knowing he can't do that if he signs somewhere as he'll be expected to be in training, but who puts a move in jeopardy to do that? You get the deal done and the medical and then worry about saying goodbye.
Unless he's such an amazing character fit for Ashton and McKenna he simply has to fly thousands of miles to personally thank people ahead of a move he's not even made! |
It's clearly a complex deal with Villas involvement and matching rights and it being a double deal.
I'd guess it's probably how the deals been weighted and maybe Villa are playing the game to try and draw a bigger offer and subsequently increased sell on. | |
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| Philogene update on 09:28 - Jul 11 with 2048 views | gordon |
| Philogene update on 08:58 - Jul 11 by tractorboy1978 |
Yes, wonder if Philogene is 'undervalued' in our double deal with Greaves and Villa matched it knowing we will have to renegotiate it. |
Yeah, that would be my guess - Villa were a bit miffed that we agreed a joint deal where we valued eg £15mil for Philogene and £25mil for Greaves, so they decided to either push up the price for Philogene or buy him themselves at the reduced price, even though they don't want / need him that much.
Now we're left with a £25mil offer for Greaves which we don't want to finalise because we'd want to re-negotiate if the Philogene deal falls through. Hull want the ITFC offer to go through because they stand to lose out if Villa get Philogene at the reduced price and then we pull-out of the deal for Greaves. |  | | |
| Philogene update on 09:31 - Jul 11 with 1986 views | Parky |
| Philogene update on 08:38 - Jul 11 by portmanking |
What kind of an update is that Baz?!
Preparing bids? We had a package agreed last week as far as we all knew?
This is all becoming far too much of a soap opera even for my liking. Does he mean there's going to be a 'best and final' bid process? Maybe Villa are simply looking to test our desire for JP and see how high we're prepared to bid and earn them a bigger sell-on in the process? |
I struggle to see why we’d go back with an increased bid after ours has already been agreed, we could bid an extra million and Villa instantly match it and we’re back to the same position, but paying an extra million.
Surely it’s just down the where the player wants to go at this point. I imagine Hull would rather him come here because the double deal is better for them with Greaves being a homegrown player, hence their papers saying we’re favourites. | | | |
| Philogene update on 09:33 - Jul 11 with 1974 views | PhilTWTD |
| Philogene update on 09:23 - Jul 11 by Asa |
But no suggestion of any medical here though. Which is what makes no sense.
If he'd done a medical, agreed terms, Villa came in etc then this makes some sense. But if not then surely he's either heading here or to Villa for a medical, not heading to Turkey to train with Hull.
Sure he may want to say goodbye, knowing he can't do that if he signs somewhere as he'll be expected to be in training, but who puts a move in jeopardy to do that? You get the deal done and the medical and then worry about saying goodbye.
Unless he's such an amazing character fit for Ashton and McKenna he simply has to fly thousands of miles to personally thank people ahead of a move he's not even made! |
Hull just trying to show they're happy to keep him if no deal is done with anyone. |  | | |
| Philogene update on 09:33 - Jul 11 with 1952 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Philogene update on 07:49 - Jul 11 by Metal_Hacker |
Good God , does it ever end |
Mathematicians at MIT have just updated the oficial units of time list:
Planck time
Jiffy (yes, that’s real)
Svedberg
Microsecond
Second
Milliday
Hour
Day
Week
Lunar year
Olympiad
Decade
Century
Megaannum
Galactic year
Exasecond
Quettasecond
Philogene time |  |
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| Philogene update on 09:37 - Jul 11 with 1898 views | portmanking |
| Philogene update on 09:33 - Jul 11 by PhilTWTD |
Hull just trying to show they're happy to keep him if no deal is done with anyone. |
But I thought the deal was 'done' with us? So why should Hull have to do any posturing in our direction? | | | |
| Philogene update on 09:39 - Jul 11 with 1853 views | ITFCBlues |
| Philogene update on 09:37 - Jul 11 by portmanking |
But I thought the deal was 'done' with us? So why should Hull have to do any posturing in our direction? |
Or is it in villas direction? | |
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| Philogene update on 09:45 - Jul 11 with 1802 views | Asa |
| Philogene update on 09:33 - Jul 11 by PhilTWTD |
Hull just trying to show they're happy to keep him if no deal is done with anyone. |
But surely if a fee has been agreed with both and terms have been agreed with both there's nothing more than for the player to decide?
Can this only mean that Villa have somehow forced us to up our bid or they are suggesting they don't agree with the value for him in the deal? Does the double deal mean that Villa suspect Hull have effectively tried to lower Philogene's value in it all otherwise why not two separate deals?
No suggestion of any wrongdoing of course. But can see why Villa could suspect that was the case and could make it awkward in getting anything over the line. Suggestion seems to be £16m-£18m for Philogene and £22m-£24m for Greaves when you'd expect it to be the other way round with Jaden being younger and a forward, who go for more. | | | |
| Philogene update on 09:48 - Jul 11 with 1750 views | Ryorry |
He wouldn’t be trying to avoid a medical for a few days, having tripped over a cricket ball or something would he?
As just about every other theory seems to have been suggested. |  |
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| Philogene update on 09:52 - Jul 11 with 1670 views | ITFCBlues |
| Philogene update on 09:45 - Jul 11 by Asa |
But surely if a fee has been agreed with both and terms have been agreed with both there's nothing more than for the player to decide?
Can this only mean that Villa have somehow forced us to up our bid or they are suggesting they don't agree with the value for him in the deal? Does the double deal mean that Villa suspect Hull have effectively tried to lower Philogene's value in it all otherwise why not two separate deals?
No suggestion of any wrongdoing of course. But can see why Villa could suspect that was the case and could make it awkward in getting anything over the line. Suggestion seems to be £16m-£18m for Philogene and £22m-£24m for Greaves when you'd expect it to be the other way round with Jaden being younger and a forward, who go for more. |
I think you've hit the nail on the head. Villa clearly feel there's something fishy going on.
There's a reason Hull appear keen to deal with us and are pushing that deal. | |
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| Philogene update on 09:53 - Jul 11 with 1644 views | Europablue |
| Philogene update on 08:27 - Jul 11 by ITFCBlues |
Yeah, but they could still refuse to sell him you'd assume and say our bids rejected?
Either way, I do t think it's good news for us. Our offers on the table and he's gone out there for whatever reason. |
Hull can't refuse to sell him now. Philogene would rightly throw a tantrum if they told him that he could move then they changed their minds last minute. Hull probably need the money. It just doesn't make financial sense to hold onto players that valuable in the Championship. 3 or 4 5 million pound players are way more valuable than 1 15 or 29 million pound footballer. | | | |
| Philogene update on 10:00 - Jul 11 with 1547 views | Asa |
| Philogene update on 09:52 - Jul 11 by ITFCBlues |
I think you've hit the nail on the head. Villa clearly feel there's something fishy going on.
There's a reason Hull appear keen to deal with us and are pushing that deal. |
Which may be how Villa see it but can't see Ashton going for that.
Because, in a hypothetical scenario though where we agree £39m for Greaves and £1m for Philogene, and Hull are laughing at Villa, if the Philogene aspect falls through then we'd have to pull out of Greaves at £39m and announce to the world this is what we'd done.
So can only think the valuations we've agreed to are what we feel are fair. Because if the deal has to be tweaked now with Philogene off elsewhere for £18m say then we'd be paying £22m straight for Greaves.
So can't see any reason why ITFC wouldn't want to have the true valuations (even if any club was inclined to do something sneaky - which there's no suggestion of but you can imagine could be tempting) agreed in case of this situation with there always being the chance of Villa matching the offer and the player going there.
So struggling to make any sense of it as any suspicions from Villa should be outweighed by knowing Town are no mugs and won't risking paying over the odds for one half of the deal that gets completed. | | | |
| Philogene update on 10:02 - Jul 11 with 1514 views | budgiebasher |
| Philogene update on 09:45 - Jul 11 by Asa |
But surely if a fee has been agreed with both and terms have been agreed with both there's nothing more than for the player to decide?
Can this only mean that Villa have somehow forced us to up our bid or they are suggesting they don't agree with the value for him in the deal? Does the double deal mean that Villa suspect Hull have effectively tried to lower Philogene's value in it all otherwise why not two separate deals?
No suggestion of any wrongdoing of course. But can see why Villa could suspect that was the case and could make it awkward in getting anything over the line. Suggestion seems to be £16m-£18m for Philogene and £22m-£24m for Greaves when you'd expect it to be the other way round with Jaden being younger and a forward, who go for more. |
My guess is this is exactly what has happened. If so, Ipswich will now have to up there offer for JP and renegotiate the Greaves price with Hull which might mean us and them splitting the difference on Hull’s net loss in weighting the deal more fairly. Presumably an increased offer will lead to a further 3 day window for villa to activate matching rights so Hull have told JP to go to Turkey while it all gets sorted. JP could just accept Ipswich’s offer of course but no doubt JP’s agent would have used the opportunity to get some sort of signing on bonus with Villa which he says Ipswich will have to match if they want him under the deal as currently weighted which is why JP is keeping his powder dry. All wild speculation of course but one things for sure - it’s all a bit of a mess | |
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| Philogene update on 10:02 - Jul 11 with 1495 views | Ryorry |
Flying another kite - after last night, maybe JP feels he'd have a better chance of playing for England if he went back to Villa, so is taking time to have a re-think. | |
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| Philogene update on 10:03 - Jul 11 with 1480 views | Europablue |
| Philogene update on 09:45 - Jul 11 by Asa |
But surely if a fee has been agreed with both and terms have been agreed with both there's nothing more than for the player to decide?
Can this only mean that Villa have somehow forced us to up our bid or they are suggesting they don't agree with the value for him in the deal? Does the double deal mean that Villa suspect Hull have effectively tried to lower Philogene's value in it all otherwise why not two separate deals?
No suggestion of any wrongdoing of course. But can see why Villa could suspect that was the case and could make it awkward in getting anything over the line. Suggestion seems to be £16m-£18m for Philogene and £22m-£24m for Greaves when you'd expect it to be the other way round with Jaden being younger and a forward, who go for more. |
Double deals should just be banned, they just muddy the water. It should be clear what the value is for each player and it leaves no room for creative accounting. | | | |
| Philogene update on 10:05 - Jul 11 with 1448 views | gramps |
| Philogene update on 09:21 - Jul 11 by tractorboy1978 |
That is true.
The Greaves deal has all been 'done' since Sunday evening though. So I'd think there must be something tied to Philogene otherwise we would just announce Greaves surely. |
If Greaves deal is done it is strange that he has not signed and joined our pre season instead of waiting in Hull. Since he has not gone to Turkey with Philogene he should avoid training injuries with them - surely better he signs and joins up with us now before another club comes in to muddy the waters like with Philogene! |  |
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