| Philogene update 07:47 - Jul 11 with 16240 views | Parky |
Now arrived in Turkey where the rest of the Hull team are, according to their local press. He didn’t travel originally with them, if you look at previous tweets.
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| Philogene update on 10:07 - Jul 11 with 3498 views | Europablue |
| Philogene update on 10:02 - Jul 11 by budgiebasher |
My guess is this is exactly what has happened. If so, Ipswich will now have to up there offer for JP and renegotiate the Greaves price with Hull which might mean us and them splitting the difference on Hull’s net loss in weighting the deal more fairly. Presumably an increased offer will lead to a further 3 day window for villa to activate matching rights so Hull have told JP to go to Turkey while it all gets sorted. JP could just accept Ipswich’s offer of course but no doubt JP’s agent would have used the opportunity to get some sort of signing on bonus with Villa which he says Ipswich will have to match if they want him under the deal as currently weighted which is why JP is keeping his powder dry. All wild speculation of course but one things for sure - it’s all a bit of a mess |
Or maybe the message is being sent to Philogene, that he needs to tell his agent to stop messing about and go to Ipswich or play in the Championship at least for half a season. | | | |
| Philogene update on 10:12 - Jul 11 with 3449 views | PhilTWTD |
| Philogene update on 09:37 - Jul 11 by portmanking |
But I thought the deal was 'done' with us? So why should Hull have to do any posturing in our direction? |
Well, if Villa keep matching offers there will come a point when the revised deal is too expensive for us. Maybe they're trying to imply they'll not do a deal with anyone unless it all gets sorted sooner rather than later, which of course would just be posturing. |  | | |
| Philogene update on 10:17 - Jul 11 with 3378 views | trncbluearmy |
wonder when we became aware of this matching offer malarky
does seem to make the deal very difficult to do and something we may avoid in the future |  | | |
| Philogene update on 10:19 - Jul 11 with 3329 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| Philogene update on 10:12 - Jul 11 by PhilTWTD |
Well, if Villa keep matching offers there will come a point when the revised deal is too expensive for us. Maybe they're trying to imply they'll not do a deal with anyone unless it all gets sorted sooner rather than later, which of course would just be posturing. |
Any indication we've actually gone back and 'upped' the fee Phil. I don't get that sense.
Feels very much like the club are leaving this to the player.
I can't see that Town would get involved with Hull trying to pull the wool over the eyes of Villa, especially when Ashton would have been fully aware of the matching rights clause. He's clever enough to know that a deliberately low bid would elicit a response from Villa.
Equally, I can't see Ashton bidding £22m for Greaves. This feels like an internal Hull matter to me, we've bid X million for both players, the leaking of the figure for Philogene seems to have come from elsewhere - I suspect his agent. |  |
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| Philogene update on 10:21 - Jul 11 with 3302 views | ITFCBlues |
| Philogene update on 10:12 - Jul 11 by PhilTWTD |
Well, if Villa keep matching offers there will come a point when the revised deal is too expensive for us. Maybe they're trying to imply they'll not do a deal with anyone unless it all gets sorted sooner rather than later, which of course would just be posturing. |
But why would we need to keep upping the offer if we've already got a deal agreed? Unless he wants to go to Villa... |  |
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| Philogene update on 10:24 - Jul 11 with 3270 views | PhilTWTD |
| Philogene update on 10:21 - Jul 11 by ITFCBlues |
But why would we need to keep upping the offer if we've already got a deal agreed? Unless he wants to go to Villa... |
Whether he wants to go to Villa or not, I'm sure his agent will be saying that he quite fancies a return to try and push up personal terms whether they'd previously been agreed or otherwise. | | | |
| Philogene update on 10:25 - Jul 11 with 3226 views | portmanking |
| Philogene update on 10:21 - Jul 11 by ITFCBlues |
But why would we need to keep upping the offer if we've already got a deal agreed? Unless he wants to go to Villa... |
That's the bit that makes no sense. If the deal is done and Town are JP's preferred destination, what's the need for any posturing whatsoever? | | | |
| Philogene update on 10:27 - Jul 11 with 3199 views | PhilTWTD |
| Philogene update on 10:19 - Jul 11 by Cheltenham_Blue |
Any indication we've actually gone back and 'upped' the fee Phil. I don't get that sense.
Feels very much like the club are leaving this to the player.
I can't see that Town would get involved with Hull trying to pull the wool over the eyes of Villa, especially when Ashton would have been fully aware of the matching rights clause. He's clever enough to know that a deliberately low bid would elicit a response from Villa.
Equally, I can't see Ashton bidding £22m for Greaves. This feels like an internal Hull matter to me, we've bid X million for both players, the leaking of the figure for Philogene seems to have come from elsewhere - I suspect his agent. |
Hull are clearly keen to do the double deal with us and a workaround on the big sell-on will almost certainly come into it. May well just be a case of Town saying, 'OK, two offers on the table, make your pick' and no auction. Ultimately, if he doesn't want to go to Villa, then they can't force him. | | | |
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| Philogene update on 10:28 - Jul 11 with 3163 views | PhilTWTD |
| Philogene update on 10:25 - Jul 11 by portmanking |
That's the bit that makes no sense. If the deal is done and Town are JP's preferred destination, what's the need for any posturing whatsoever? |
They clearly think there's some value in him going out to Turkey, which in itself will slow down the completion of any deal. | | | |
| Philogene update on 10:29 - Jul 11 with 3135 views | nodge_blue |
| Philogene update on 10:12 - Jul 11 by PhilTWTD |
Well, if Villa keep matching offers there will come a point when the revised deal is too expensive for us. Maybe they're trying to imply they'll not do a deal with anyone unless it all gets sorted sooner rather than later, which of course would just be posturing. |
But surely we don't have to increase our offer? All Villa have done is effectively put in a bid at the same price? |  |
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| Philogene update on 10:30 - Jul 11 with 3099 views | PhilTWTD |
| Philogene update on 10:17 - Jul 11 by trncbluearmy |
wonder when we became aware of this matching offer malarky
does seem to make the deal very difficult to do and something we may avoid in the future |
Was mentioned fairly early on in proceedings, so assume Town were well aware. And actually, it was in Hull's interest to make Town aware of the various ins and outs of the deal with Villa, especially as the player is part of a double deal. | | | |
| Philogene update on 10:33 - Jul 11 with 3031 views | Ryorry |
| Philogene update on 10:25 - Jul 11 by portmanking |
That's the bit that makes no sense. If the deal is done and Town are JP's preferred destination, what's the need for any posturing whatsoever? |
Or it might be as simple as JP being fed up with all the pressure, journos and fans 'spotting' him everywhere, and easier for him to retreat behind the shield of being overseas with his old squad around him. |  |
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| Philogene update on 10:43 - Jul 11 with 2928 views | PhilTWTD |
| Philogene update on 10:29 - Jul 11 by nodge_blue |
But surely we don't have to increase our offer? All Villa have done is effectively put in a bid at the same price? |
I'd assume so as Hull are evidently happy with what we're offering within the double deal. I suppose other clubs could make offers, which could also be matched, although they don't appear to have done up to now. | | | |
| Philogene update on 10:44 - Jul 11 with 2900 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Philogene update on 10:33 - Jul 11 by Ryorry |
Or it might be as simple as JP being fed up with all the pressure, journos and fans 'spotting' him everywhere, and easier for him to retreat behind the shield of being overseas with his old squad around him. |
Dont we head to Austria friday?
KM has probably said to him, go and train with Hull, otherwise he can't come with us until he's signed, so no point stopping him training. |  |
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| Philogene update on 10:45 - Jul 11 with 2880 views | Ryorry |
I like this from the news comments!
"neil1968 added 10:18 - Jul 11
Does seem strange him going out to Turkey. Maybe nothing but one of the directors Berke Bakay is turkish and has a big place over there . Wishful thinking but maybe finalising the deal over there". | |
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| Philogene update on 11:05 - Jul 11 with 2684 views | Zapers |
| Philogene update on 09:45 - Jul 11 by Asa |
But surely if a fee has been agreed with both and terms have been agreed with both there's nothing more than for the player to decide?
Can this only mean that Villa have somehow forced us to up our bid or they are suggesting they don't agree with the value for him in the deal? Does the double deal mean that Villa suspect Hull have effectively tried to lower Philogene's value in it all otherwise why not two separate deals?
No suggestion of any wrongdoing of course. But can see why Villa could suspect that was the case and could make it awkward in getting anything over the line. Suggestion seems to be £16m-£18m for Philogene and £22m-£24m for Greaves when you'd expect it to be the other way round with Jaden being younger and a forward, who go for more. |
I suspect your suggestion is the correct reason for the hold up.
Hull maybe undervalued Philogene in the deal and Villa are now questioning it.
This would mean that if Villa buy him back, Ipswich might feel they have overpaid for Greaves, hence the hold up on both players.
Of course it’s just speculation but it might explain why the Hull owner is insisting the player joins them on their training camp, and states that if we don’t agree the valuation, he will stay next season.
This of course might also put the Greaves deal in some doubt.
I suspect Philogene himself has made up his mind, and neither his manager or he are responsible for the delay. | | | |
| Philogene update on 11:27 - Jul 11 with 2500 views | mellowblue |
| Philogene update on 11:05 - Jul 11 by Zapers |
I suspect your suggestion is the correct reason for the hold up.
Hull maybe undervalued Philogene in the deal and Villa are now questioning it.
This would mean that if Villa buy him back, Ipswich might feel they have overpaid for Greaves, hence the hold up on both players.
Of course it’s just speculation but it might explain why the Hull owner is insisting the player joins them on their training camp, and states that if we don’t agree the valuation, he will stay next season.
This of course might also put the Greaves deal in some doubt.
I suspect Philogene himself has made up his mind, and neither his manager or he are responsible for the delay. |
To be honest Villa have every right to feel aggrieved if they do not get the sell on money they anticipated due to Hull/Us loading up the Greaves fee. It also sets a precedent to getting around hefty sell on clauses in the future by setting the price of players with big sell on clause lower and buying a journey man team mate and artificially increasing his value whether you want him or not. At least in our case we want Greaves and it is all part of a negotiating tactic, but could easily be done in an ultra maniplutive manner. | | | |
| Philogene update on 11:55 - Jul 11 with 2317 views | NedPlimpton |
| Philogene update on 11:27 - Jul 11 by mellowblue |
To be honest Villa have every right to feel aggrieved if they do not get the sell on money they anticipated due to Hull/Us loading up the Greaves fee. It also sets a precedent to getting around hefty sell on clauses in the future by setting the price of players with big sell on clause lower and buying a journey man team mate and artificially increasing his value whether you want him or not. At least in our case we want Greaves and it is all part of a negotiating tactic, but could easily be done in an ultra maniplutive manner. |
Not saying that we have inflated the Greaves fee as we'll have always known about villa's clause but haven't villa have been artificially inflating fees of players with other clubs to help with PSR?
So no sympathy from me as clubs like them, Everton and Chelsea have set a precedent |  | | |
| Philogene update on 12:31 - Jul 11 with 2128 views | Kieran_Knows |
| Philogene update on 10:12 - Jul 11 by PhilTWTD |
Well, if Villa keep matching offers there will come a point when the revised deal is too expensive for us. Maybe they're trying to imply they'll not do a deal with anyone unless it all gets sorted sooner rather than later, which of course would just be posturing. |
I'm not really to sure what the issue is? Surely as things currently stand all Philogene has got is a decision between Town and Villa? A situation we would've been well aware could happen right at the beginning of our dealings with Hull, and therefore a situation we're comfortable with?
I go back to Ornstein's original tweet the other afternoon '5yr contract in place. 22yo currently set to pick #ITFC + do medical this week. #AVFC matching rights until Wed & ready to activate but respect player wish.'. That implies to me that his mind was made up at the time and he was coming here, regardless of Villa's bid.
So either he's had a change of mind and Hull are somewhat p!ssed as the deal is better for them with us, hence why they've made him go to Turkey to force his hand, OR, they've become aware that another club (possibly Everton or Palace) are about to up the stakes with a bigger offer? [Post edited 11 Jul 2024 12:32]
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| Philogene update on 12:41 - Jul 11 with 2027 views | Zapers |
| Philogene update on 11:55 - Jul 11 by NedPlimpton |
Not saying that we have inflated the Greaves fee as we'll have always known about villa's clause but haven't villa have been artificially inflating fees of players with other clubs to help with PSR?
So no sympathy from me as clubs like them, Everton and Chelsea have set a precedent |
But it’s not Ipswich who decide the valuation of both players, it’s Hull. | | | |
| Philogene update on 12:46 - Jul 11 with 1942 views | NedPlimpton |
| Philogene update on 12:41 - Jul 11 by Zapers |
But it’s not Ipswich who decide the valuation of both players, it’s Hull. |
Either way, no sympathy for Villa | | | |
| Philogene update on 12:48 - Jul 11 with 1909 views | Ryorry |
| Philogene update on 12:46 - Jul 11 by NedPlimpton |
Either way, no sympathy for Villa |
Since 1981!  | |
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| Philogene update on 14:00 - Jul 11 with 1602 views | OldFart71 |
Seems a bit strange if true. Why would the club want a player on the verge of going somewhere else training for the new season with them. Surely he would be able to train locally to keep himself match fit. Whilst there are now many ways to communicate with people miles apart a club would surely prefer face to face negotiations with a player. | | | |
| Philogene update on 14:19 - Jul 11 with 1439 views | Zapers |
| Philogene update on 14:00 - Jul 11 by OldFart71 |
Seems a bit strange if true. Why would the club want a player on the verge of going somewhere else training for the new season with them. Surely he would be able to train locally to keep himself match fit. Whilst there are now many ways to communicate with people miles apart a club would surely prefer face to face negotiations with a player. |
Tactics, by the Hull owner. He's clearly playing hard ball. | | | |
| Philogene update on 14:26 - Jul 11 with 1356 views | HighgateBlue |
| Philogene update on 09:33 - Jul 11 by PhilTWTD |
Hull just trying to show they're happy to keep him if no deal is done with anyone. |
And of course if no deal is done, they will want him to have trained with them! |  | | |
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