| That sums it up for me. 16:50 - Sep 21 with 10005 views | Reus30 |
O'Shea is utter pish. Awful game, giving me Delaney vibes. |  | | |  |
| That sums it up for me. on 22:28 - Sep 21 with 1194 views | FrimleyBlue |
| That sums it up for me. on 22:11 - Sep 21 by pointofblue |
But that's what the disagreement is about. Is O'Shea really an improvement on Woolfenden? A few (mainly those who have been critical of Woolfenden for a while) are saying yes. Others (yes, mainly those who have been defensive of him) are saying no.
Long term, O'Shea could be better, he has the attributes to do so. But, for me, there's been nothing from the three games where he's played - I acknowledge I'm being harsh here by including Wimbledon! - which suggests we're benefiting from having O'Shea there instead of Woolfenden right now. |
Without the two playing together its difficult to answer answer as we don't know for certain how wolfy would have performed in comparison.
But we've played 2 prem games with oshea and kept our first cleansheet and conceded 1 goal in two away games.
But let's see. The fact is tho we needed to get oshea games if KM does seem him as his first choice cb alongside greaves and that can only happen if he plays him asap. And so far it's done absolutely fine |  |
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| That sums it up for me. on 22:42 - Sep 21 with 1156 views | LittleBoyBlue1 |
| That sums it up for me. on 22:28 - Sep 21 by FrimleyBlue |
Without the two playing together its difficult to answer answer as we don't know for certain how wolfy would have performed in comparison.
But we've played 2 prem games with oshea and kept our first cleansheet and conceded 1 goal in two away games.
But let's see. The fact is tho we needed to get oshea games if KM does seem him as his first choice cb alongside greaves and that can only happen if he plays him asap. And so far it's done absolutely fine |
Really difficult to discredit woolfie because we didn't keep a clean sheet against city and Liverpool imo.
I think O'Shea coming into the side has coincided with us playing weaker teams.
"Absolutely fine" isn't true. He tried to put his foot through it today and scuffed it, ended up looking like a tidy pass to Tuanzebe but it was in a corner. Yes Axel should've cleared it from there. Really poor foul for the yellow, get caught out like that again and he's off. And every time he's given the ball the game slows right down. He doesn't know where to pass it. From our own kick offs it gets rolled back to him and he just lumps it long. |  | | |
| That sums it up for me. on 22:42 - Sep 21 with 1145 views | textbackup |
One poor pass in the 91st min?
Aside from that, not sure I saw anything too wrong |  |
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| That sums it up for me. on 22:45 - Sep 21 with 1114 views | Nutkins_Return |
| That sums it up for me. on 21:51 - Sep 21 by Reus30 |
Whilst I agree with some of your points, I shared an opinion. It doesn't affect the support for my team in the slightest. I don't think this will go on the team talk board as motivation. My opinion like most fan opinions are disposable, worthless internet drivel.
Last time I checked, that was allowed in society. I didn't personally insult, I just questioned his ability in comparison to another in a blunt manner. God forbid.
However, the insults coming my direction are personal. But unfortunately that seems to be the theme of the TWTD forum these days. You can dislike my opinions, feel free to ignore, feel free to feel how you feel but I shouldn't be silenced because I'm not part of the majority. |
It's how you shared it. That's it. | |
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| That sums it up for me. on 22:47 - Sep 21 with 1105 views | LittleBoyBlue1 |
| That sums it up for me. on 22:45 - Sep 21 by Nutkins_Return |
It's how you shared it. That's it. |
And that warrants personal insults? Classy | | | |
| That sums it up for me. on 22:47 - Sep 21 with 1097 views | FrimleyBlue |
| That sums it up for me. on 22:42 - Sep 21 by LittleBoyBlue1 |
Really difficult to discredit woolfie because we didn't keep a clean sheet against city and Liverpool imo.
I think O'Shea coming into the side has coincided with us playing weaker teams.
"Absolutely fine" isn't true. He tried to put his foot through it today and scuffed it, ended up looking like a tidy pass to Tuanzebe but it was in a corner. Yes Axel should've cleared it from there. Really poor foul for the yellow, get caught out like that again and he's off. And every time he's given the ball the game slows right down. He doesn't know where to pass it. From our own kick offs it gets rolled back to him and he just lumps it long. |
I saw 4 mistakes from greaves today. But no mentions of them?
So oshea messed his kick, 100% wolfy has had many of those.
The kick off thing. I. Assuming you mean goal kicks Not actual kicking off as we've always gone long from kickoff.
And again. Wolfy slowed play down that was his job same as its osheas.
I just don't see what we are missing from not having wolfy in the side. That's not a slight on him at all I just don't see what issues there are with oshea tbh. Is greaves seen as better because he's made a few crunching tackles? No mention at all about his awkwardness of our conceded goal. [Post edited 21 Sep 2024 22:50]
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| That sums it up for me. on 22:51 - Sep 21 with 1092 views | Nutkins_Return |
| That sums it up for me. on 21:38 - Sep 21 by AVJones |
“Most can objectively see”
Pretty damning comment on those of us who don’t see that yet.
I understand O’Shea might be better than Wolf. I hope he is - we’ve spent a fortune on him and it’ll make us better if he is.
But - objectively - I haven’t seen it yet. |
Its not damning one bit. It's not inflammatory at all.
I'm just saying if you objectively look at Woolf and O'Shea career and attributes you can see why he was signed and why you would put him in.
Seasoned international with a lot of premier league experience. One of, if not the quickest defenders in the division. (A big weakness in Woolfs game).O'Shea was In demand at premier league level. Proven proactive attacker of the ball in both boxes. Scores goals from corners etc.
Woolf is a local hero and in my opinion really talented player on the ball. He's proven up to champ level. Not done much wrong and I'm a fan. BUT we go with sentiment we get relegated. Woolf can win his spot back if he's the better player. That is all there is to it.
No defender however good just walks in and is instantly consistent and on everybodies wavelength. He needs some games with the team. This is a new team FFS. Relationships will come. Oshea objectively makes sense. Sentimentally it's difficult. Let's just be respectful. [Post edited 21 Sep 2024 22:52]
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| That sums it up for me. on 22:55 - Sep 21 with 1081 views | LittleBoyBlue1 |
| That sums it up for me. on 22:47 - Sep 21 by FrimleyBlue |
I saw 4 mistakes from greaves today. But no mentions of them?
So oshea messed his kick, 100% wolfy has had many of those.
The kick off thing. I. Assuming you mean goal kicks Not actual kicking off as we've always gone long from kickoff.
And again. Wolfy slowed play down that was his job same as its osheas.
I just don't see what we are missing from not having wolfy in the side. That's not a slight on him at all I just don't see what issues there are with oshea tbh. Is greaves seen as better because he's made a few crunching tackles? No mention at all about his awkwardness of our conceded goal. [Post edited 21 Sep 2024 22:50]
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That's the whole point. O'Shea isn't an upgrade.
By your own admission he does everything woolfie does. So why have we dropped Woolf quite so ruthlessly when he's done nothing wrong and his replacement isn't an upgrade.
Because we spent millions on him perhaps? | | | |
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| That sums it up for me. on 22:59 - Sep 21 with 1056 views | FrimleyBlue |
| That sums it up for me. on 22:55 - Sep 21 by LittleBoyBlue1 |
That's the whole point. O'Shea isn't an upgrade.
By your own admission he does everything woolfie does. So why have we dropped Woolf quite so ruthlessly when he's done nothing wrong and his replacement isn't an upgrade.
Because we spent millions on him perhaps? |
Of course he's an upgrade. He's quicker. Better in the air for starters. I'm saying he plays the game the same way wolfy does.. I e slow it down. That's what KM wants him to do.
End of day we signed him to be a cb starter and we are playing him. It was always gonna happen and its helped us to 2 points in 2 away games.
Not sure what the moaning is about tbh. | |
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| That sums it up for me. (n/t) on 23:00 - Sep 21 with 1060 views | Godzilla |
| That sums it up for me. on 22:22 - Sep 21 by FrimleyBlue |
Sorry I don't understand your reply |
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| That sums it up for me. on 23:04 - Sep 21 with 1034 views | LittleBoyBlue1 |
| That sums it up for me. on 22:59 - Sep 21 by FrimleyBlue |
Of course he's an upgrade. He's quicker. Better in the air for starters. I'm saying he plays the game the same way wolfy does.. I e slow it down. That's what KM wants him to do.
End of day we signed him to be a cb starter and we are playing him. It was always gonna happen and its helped us to 2 points in 2 away games.
Not sure what the moaning is about tbh. |
Town fans so quick to call discussion "moaning" is getting old. | | | |
| That sums it up for me. on 23:05 - Sep 21 with 1029 views | Godzilla |
| That sums it up for me. on 22:22 - Sep 21 by FrimleyBlue |
Sorry I don't understand your reply |
No need to apologise FB, I dont look in too here too often but thought you werwe maybe one and the same as Reus30. | | | |
| That sums it up for me. on 23:06 - Sep 21 with 1017 views | FrimleyBlue |
| That sums it up for me. on 23:04 - Sep 21 by LittleBoyBlue1 |
Town fans so quick to call discussion "moaning" is getting old. |
I should know I moan about it. | |
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| That sums it up for me. on 23:07 - Sep 21 with 1018 views | pointofblue |
| That sums it up for me. on 22:59 - Sep 21 by FrimleyBlue |
Of course he's an upgrade. He's quicker. Better in the air for starters. I'm saying he plays the game the same way wolfy does.. I e slow it down. That's what KM wants him to do.
End of day we signed him to be a cb starter and we are playing him. It was always gonna happen and its helped us to 2 points in 2 away games.
Not sure what the moaning is about tbh. |
O'Shea's slow it down is different to Woolfenden's at this stage. In fairness, it's probably because he's adjusting to our style of play and his team mates but, IMO, it results in pressure rather than taking it off, which is what Woolfenden manages more often than not.
And I wouldn't really credit O'Shea for conceding one in two games. As stated above, it is was his miskick in the first place which put Tuanzebe in a really awkward position rather than being able to command the ball leading up to the goal (yes, Tuanzebe could have done better after that, as could Greaves). Plus, for all he's quicker than Woolfenden, he allowed two players to get the run on him at different times during the match. As an aside, Muric single-handedly kept the ball out of the net at Brighton.
To be blunt, if Woolfenden had performed as O'Shea has he'd be being ripped to shreds on here and there would be mass calls for him to be dropped. But he didn't, and O'Shea is flavour for the month, so there isn't. You say with certainty, "Of course he's an upgrade". For me, we haven't see that yet. | |
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| That sums it up for me. on 23:11 - Sep 21 with 993 views | FrimleyBlue |
| That sums it up for me. on 23:07 - Sep 21 by pointofblue |
O'Shea's slow it down is different to Woolfenden's at this stage. In fairness, it's probably because he's adjusting to our style of play and his team mates but, IMO, it results in pressure rather than taking it off, which is what Woolfenden manages more often than not.
And I wouldn't really credit O'Shea for conceding one in two games. As stated above, it is was his miskick in the first place which put Tuanzebe in a really awkward position rather than being able to command the ball leading up to the goal (yes, Tuanzebe could have done better after that, as could Greaves). Plus, for all he's quicker than Woolfenden, he allowed two players to get the run on him at different times during the match. As an aside, Muric single-handedly kept the ball out of the net at Brighton.
To be blunt, if Woolfenden had performed as O'Shea has he'd be being ripped to shreds on here and there would be mass calls for him to be dropped. But he didn't, and O'Shea is flavour for the month, so there isn't. You say with certainty, "Of course he's an upgrade". For me, we haven't see that yet. |
But you're acting like wolfy never made mistakes. That's what I don't get. Sure oshea did. Graves did. Tuanzebe did. It will continue to happen to. Just like it would if wolfy played. Mistakes do happen over 90 minutes. | |
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| That sums it up for me. on 23:13 - Sep 21 with 996 views | LittleBoyBlue1 |
| That sums it up for me. on 23:11 - Sep 21 by FrimleyBlue |
But you're acting like wolfy never made mistakes. That's what I don't get. Sure oshea did. Graves did. Tuanzebe did. It will continue to happen to. Just like it would if wolfy played. Mistakes do happen over 90 minutes. |
You keep flipping between
"O'Shea is definitely an upgrade"
and
"Woolfie plays the same and makes an equal amount of mistakes"
Which is it | | | |
| That sums it up for me. on 23:15 - Sep 21 with 988 views | pointofblue |
| That sums it up for me. on 23:11 - Sep 21 by FrimleyBlue |
But you're acting like wolfy never made mistakes. That's what I don't get. Sure oshea did. Graves did. Tuanzebe did. It will continue to happen to. Just like it would if wolfy played. Mistakes do happen over 90 minutes. |
And you were one who was critical of Woolfenden for these mistakes. Yet now it's someone else... | |
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| That sums it up for me. on 23:16 - Sep 21 with 980 views | FrimleyBlue |
| That sums it up for me. on 23:13 - Sep 21 by LittleBoyBlue1 |
You keep flipping between
"O'Shea is definitely an upgrade"
and
"Woolfie plays the same and makes an equal amount of mistakes"
Which is it |
You seem to struggle with what an upgrade is.
They are both ball playing cbs.
They play the game the way the manager wants
They will make mistakes as they are human
However
Oshea is quicker. He's better in the air. He's better at diags. He's more experienced.
Therefore oshea is an upgrade. | |
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| That sums it up for me. on 23:18 - Sep 21 with 973 views | FrimleyBlue |
| That sums it up for me. on 23:15 - Sep 21 by pointofblue |
And you were one who was critical of Woolfenden for these mistakes. Yet now it's someone else... |
Actually I wasn't that critical of Wolfenden.
I just see a better defender overall in o shea. | |
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| That sums it up for me. on 23:24 - Sep 21 with 965 views | LittleBoyBlue1 |
| That sums it up for me. on 23:18 - Sep 21 by FrimleyBlue |
Actually I wasn't that critical of Wolfenden.
I just see a better defender overall in o shea. |
How many times have you seen him play to call him better.
Woolf looked faultless against Liverpool and City I must say. So the speed at which some are happy to see him dropped is quite surprising. | | | |
| That sums it up for me. on 23:24 - Sep 21 with 965 views | pointofblue |
| That sums it up for me. on 23:16 - Sep 21 by FrimleyBlue |
You seem to struggle with what an upgrade is.
They are both ball playing cbs.
They play the game the way the manager wants
They will make mistakes as they are human
However
Oshea is quicker. He's better in the air. He's better at diags. He's more experienced.
Therefore oshea is an upgrade. |
Here's where I am with it.
You're right. On paper, O'Shea is an upgrade on Woolfenden. When bringing him in, McKenna must have been planning to make the switch at the earliest opportunity.
Woolfenden probably had his best game ever for us against Fulham. For me, he was our best defender. It gave McKenna a headache but a pleasant one. Should he reward Woolfenden for upping his game or does he make the change anyway, partly because having O'Shea sit in the stands doesn't help us if Woolfenden goes down with injury and he has to be thrown in cold? At least, if something happens to O'Shea now, we have a back up who knows the system (same with Greaves and Burgess).
McKenna decided to make the switch. As Woolfenden had started the season well, it no doubt resulted in questions from him and questions from some fans who felt it was harsh. But he has very rarely got the decision wrong. Unfortunately, the nature of football means extra scrutiny on a player if he replaces someone who hasn't really done anything to deserve being dropped. And O'Shea has, in just two league games admittedly, IMO struggled to answer those questions. If Woolfenden knocks on McKenna's door and asks why O'Shea is being favoured at the moment considering how each of them have done this campaign, the only answer he has is based on his past, not the present. | |
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| That sums it up for me. on 08:29 - Sep 22 with 805 views | tractorboy1978 |
| That sums it up for me. on 23:24 - Sep 21 by pointofblue |
Here's where I am with it.
You're right. On paper, O'Shea is an upgrade on Woolfenden. When bringing him in, McKenna must have been planning to make the switch at the earliest opportunity.
Woolfenden probably had his best game ever for us against Fulham. For me, he was our best defender. It gave McKenna a headache but a pleasant one. Should he reward Woolfenden for upping his game or does he make the change anyway, partly because having O'Shea sit in the stands doesn't help us if Woolfenden goes down with injury and he has to be thrown in cold? At least, if something happens to O'Shea now, we have a back up who knows the system (same with Greaves and Burgess).
McKenna decided to make the switch. As Woolfenden had started the season well, it no doubt resulted in questions from him and questions from some fans who felt it was harsh. But he has very rarely got the decision wrong. Unfortunately, the nature of football means extra scrutiny on a player if he replaces someone who hasn't really done anything to deserve being dropped. And O'Shea has, in just two league games admittedly, IMO struggled to answer those questions. If Woolfenden knocks on McKenna's door and asks why O'Shea is being favoured at the moment considering how each of them have done this campaign, the only answer he has is based on his past, not the present. |
I think we should be happy we have two very good right sided centre back options. Personally, I don't think there is a lot between O'Shea and Woolfenden, albeit both probably have one or two attributes where they are better than each other. Woolfy can count himself unlucky to be dropped but lets not manufacture issues with O'Shea's performance. He's done perfectly fine. The real question should be is O'Shea an upgrade on Edmundson? Yes. [Post edited 22 Sep 2024 8:29]
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| That sums it up for me. on 10:12 - Sep 22 with 733 views | AVJones |
| That sums it up for me. on 22:51 - Sep 21 by Nutkins_Return |
Its not damning one bit. It's not inflammatory at all.
I'm just saying if you objectively look at Woolf and O'Shea career and attributes you can see why he was signed and why you would put him in.
Seasoned international with a lot of premier league experience. One of, if not the quickest defenders in the division. (A big weakness in Woolfs game).O'Shea was In demand at premier league level. Proven proactive attacker of the ball in both boxes. Scores goals from corners etc.
Woolf is a local hero and in my opinion really talented player on the ball. He's proven up to champ level. Not done much wrong and I'm a fan. BUT we go with sentiment we get relegated. Woolf can win his spot back if he's the better player. That is all there is to it.
No defender however good just walks in and is instantly consistent and on everybodies wavelength. He needs some games with the team. This is a new team FFS. Relationships will come. Oshea objectively makes sense. Sentimentally it's difficult. Let's just be respectful. [Post edited 21 Sep 2024 22:52]
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Thanks, good reply, well explained.
My adds…
On O’Shea
International, yes, but N Ireland is a small pool
Two seasons experience in PL. Important, I agree. But two relegations…
Wanted by others. Again, seemingly yes. But they didn’t buy him, and they had all summer
And… he looks classy, comfortable on the ball, determined, plus all the things you say. Let’s hope he goes on to be a legend.
On Woolf
We hear a lot about ceilings, blah blah.
What I think is meant by that is potential. McKenna is unleashing his potential. And my sense is his potential is still untapped.
He’s unrecognisable from 3 seasons ago. He suffered previously from the club being managed appallingly, and by a lack of great coaching for many years.
And the first 3 games this year suggested a PL player in the making. We may never know…!
Finally, I don’t know where your comments on inflammatory or being respectful come from?
You suggested ‘most objectively agree’.
I disagreed, as I use different data and don’t agree that you know what most people think. I feel it’s your opinion, based on - as you’ve shown - clear thoughtful analysis by you.
I hope I’m respectful in having a different opinion. | | | |
| That sums it up for me. on 10:40 - Sep 22 with 692 views | benrhyddingblue |
| That sums it up for me. on 19:19 - Sep 21 by LittleBoyBlue1 |
Muric did nothing that game tbf |
Because we all know one game defines a player. What a nonsense comment. | | | |
| That sums it up for me. on 11:08 - Sep 22 with 646 views | LittleBoyBlue1 |
| That sums it up for me. on 10:40 - Sep 22 by benrhyddingblue |
Because we all know one game defines a player. What a nonsense comment. |
Where on earth did I say it did 😂😂😂
Just saying he didn't do a lot one way or the other , so can't really comment on his performance.
Wind yer neck in lad it's Sunday morning 🤣 | | | |
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