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How many Lebanese lives is sufficient? on 19:48 - Oct 17 by FBI
Full disclosure: I'm part-Jewish, lived in Israel and have Israeli family, some of whom have served in the IDF.
That said:
I can't find a position to take. I know that sounds ridiculous so no need to point it out, thanks.
Netanyahu's utterly vile and always has been, but I can understand the initial response to the October hostage-taking and slaughter at the festival. What I can't understand is the horrific, OTT nature of that response. It's nothing but a war crime.
If you speak to most Israelis, thay'll tell you about how Israel has been attacked almost constantly since the first day of independence in 1948 from all sides.
On the other hand, Palestinian Arabs will rightly refer to the fact that they were cruelly displaced and have been attacked and downtrodden by Israel since then.
The simple answer is that the constant tit-for-tatting and whataboutery of both sides has resulted in the unnecessary deaths of many thousands of people over several decades, few of whom asked to be involved and, frankly, would like to just get on with their lives without the influence of politically-motivated warmongers on both sides.
I adore the country of Israel. It's beautiful and full of decent people. But the STATE of Israel? It disgusts me.
What's needed is for good, peace-loving people on both sides of the conflict to stand up and say 'no more deaths' but, as long as politicians with a desperate need to cling to power remain in charge, Jews and Muslims are going to carry on dying needlessly.
The killing of Ya Ya Sinwar, architect of 7 October and leader of Hamas, along with his bodyguards, one of whom was an UNRWA employee (quelle surprise) could be a real turning point in this conflict.
If the leadership of Hamas goes to Sinwar’s brother, who is pro Iran then we will see a continuation of the same. If the leadership goes to somebody less inclined to close ties with Iran, there was a big split in Hamas during the Syrian civil war, in which the Hamas (in line with its Sunni Islamist heritage) backed the Sunni Syrian rebels while Iran were 100% behind the government of Bashar Assad, then there is a real opportunity to see the hostages finally released and an end to the current hostilities.
Of course it takes two to tango. As much as Sinwar was a roadblock to a ceasefire and the release of the hostages, Netanyahu and and the two far right religious extremists who are holding up his coalition may wish to continue the conflict for their own ends. For Netanyahu, the continuation of the war keeps him further away from his day of reckoning. For Smotrich and Ben Gvir it ties with their idea of Israel expanding its borders and an end to any chance of a two state solution.
Hamas are leaderless and heavily if not ultimately defeated. Likewise, Hezbollah have lost two leaders in a month and have been absolutely decimated. Israel could probably negotiate a ceasefire that is more favourable to them than to Hezbollah. And Iran has been exposed as being more bark than bite.
As SuperKieranMcKenna has previously said, Israel may take advantage of weakness of Iran and Hezbollah and attempt to realign the Middle East to Israel’s advantage. On the other hand, if there is the political will (my gut feeling is that there isn’t so pressure needs to come from the US and other allies of Israel) then the death of Sinwar would be the beginning of the end of this awful year fir both the ordinary people of Israel and Palestine.
How many Lebanese lives is sufficient? on 08:49 - Oct 18 by GlasgowBlue
The killing of Ya Ya Sinwar, architect of 7 October and leader of Hamas, along with his bodyguards, one of whom was an UNRWA employee (quelle surprise) could be a real turning point in this conflict.
If the leadership of Hamas goes to Sinwar’s brother, who is pro Iran then we will see a continuation of the same. If the leadership goes to somebody less inclined to close ties with Iran, there was a big split in Hamas during the Syrian civil war, in which the Hamas (in line with its Sunni Islamist heritage) backed the Sunni Syrian rebels while Iran were 100% behind the government of Bashar Assad, then there is a real opportunity to see the hostages finally released and an end to the current hostilities.
Of course it takes two to tango. As much as Sinwar was a roadblock to a ceasefire and the release of the hostages, Netanyahu and and the two far right religious extremists who are holding up his coalition may wish to continue the conflict for their own ends. For Netanyahu, the continuation of the war keeps him further away from his day of reckoning. For Smotrich and Ben Gvir it ties with their idea of Israel expanding its borders and an end to any chance of a two state solution.
Hamas are leaderless and heavily if not ultimately defeated. Likewise, Hezbollah have lost two leaders in a month and have been absolutely decimated. Israel could probably negotiate a ceasefire that is more favourable to them than to Hezbollah. And Iran has been exposed as being more bark than bite.
As SuperKieranMcKenna has previously said, Israel may take advantage of weakness of Iran and Hezbollah and attempt to realign the Middle East to Israel’s advantage. On the other hand, if there is the political will (my gut feeling is that there isn’t so pressure needs to come from the US and other allies of Israel) then the death of Sinwar would be the beginning of the end of this awful year fir both the ordinary people of Israel and Palestine.
[Post edited 18 Oct 2024 8:57]
If an unknown combatant has lost half of their lower arm and is sitting in a chair in a partially destroyed building is it within the 'rules of war' (sic) to finish them off with tank fire?
It seems as if Israel’s last act was to give him the gift of martyrdom.
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
How many Lebanese lives is sufficient? on 09:35 - Oct 18 by BanksterDebtSlave
If an unknown combatant has lost half of their lower arm and is sitting in a chair in a partially destroyed building is it within the 'rules of war' (sic) to finish them off with tank fire?
It seems as if Israel’s last act was to give him the gift of martyrdom.
There's no nice kind of war. Wait til WW3 starts and millions get vapourised.
"Blueas is a great guy, one of the best." - Donald Trump
How many Lebanese lives is sufficient? on 08:49 - Oct 18 by GlasgowBlue
The killing of Ya Ya Sinwar, architect of 7 October and leader of Hamas, along with his bodyguards, one of whom was an UNRWA employee (quelle surprise) could be a real turning point in this conflict.
If the leadership of Hamas goes to Sinwar’s brother, who is pro Iran then we will see a continuation of the same. If the leadership goes to somebody less inclined to close ties with Iran, there was a big split in Hamas during the Syrian civil war, in which the Hamas (in line with its Sunni Islamist heritage) backed the Sunni Syrian rebels while Iran were 100% behind the government of Bashar Assad, then there is a real opportunity to see the hostages finally released and an end to the current hostilities.
Of course it takes two to tango. As much as Sinwar was a roadblock to a ceasefire and the release of the hostages, Netanyahu and and the two far right religious extremists who are holding up his coalition may wish to continue the conflict for their own ends. For Netanyahu, the continuation of the war keeps him further away from his day of reckoning. For Smotrich and Ben Gvir it ties with their idea of Israel expanding its borders and an end to any chance of a two state solution.
Hamas are leaderless and heavily if not ultimately defeated. Likewise, Hezbollah have lost two leaders in a month and have been absolutely decimated. Israel could probably negotiate a ceasefire that is more favourable to them than to Hezbollah. And Iran has been exposed as being more bark than bite.
As SuperKieranMcKenna has previously said, Israel may take advantage of weakness of Iran and Hezbollah and attempt to realign the Middle East to Israel’s advantage. On the other hand, if there is the political will (my gut feeling is that there isn’t so pressure needs to come from the US and other allies of Israel) then the death of Sinwar would be the beginning of the end of this awful year fir both the ordinary people of Israel and Palestine.
[Post edited 18 Oct 2024 8:57]
It doesn't sound from what Netanyahu has subsequently said that he has any plans to stop anytime soon. Indeed, the World Service earlier today reported that Sinwar accepted Biden's ceasefire plan back in May, only for Netanyahu to impose further conditions.
[Post edited 18 Oct 2024 9:47]
2
How many Lebanese lives is sufficient? on 09:56 - Oct 18 with 1696 views
How many Lebanese lives is sufficient? on 08:49 - Oct 18 by GlasgowBlue
The killing of Ya Ya Sinwar, architect of 7 October and leader of Hamas, along with his bodyguards, one of whom was an UNRWA employee (quelle surprise) could be a real turning point in this conflict.
If the leadership of Hamas goes to Sinwar’s brother, who is pro Iran then we will see a continuation of the same. If the leadership goes to somebody less inclined to close ties with Iran, there was a big split in Hamas during the Syrian civil war, in which the Hamas (in line with its Sunni Islamist heritage) backed the Sunni Syrian rebels while Iran were 100% behind the government of Bashar Assad, then there is a real opportunity to see the hostages finally released and an end to the current hostilities.
Of course it takes two to tango. As much as Sinwar was a roadblock to a ceasefire and the release of the hostages, Netanyahu and and the two far right religious extremists who are holding up his coalition may wish to continue the conflict for their own ends. For Netanyahu, the continuation of the war keeps him further away from his day of reckoning. For Smotrich and Ben Gvir it ties with their idea of Israel expanding its borders and an end to any chance of a two state solution.
Hamas are leaderless and heavily if not ultimately defeated. Likewise, Hezbollah have lost two leaders in a month and have been absolutely decimated. Israel could probably negotiate a ceasefire that is more favourable to them than to Hezbollah. And Iran has been exposed as being more bark than bite.
As SuperKieranMcKenna has previously said, Israel may take advantage of weakness of Iran and Hezbollah and attempt to realign the Middle East to Israel’s advantage. On the other hand, if there is the political will (my gut feeling is that there isn’t so pressure needs to come from the US and other allies of Israel) then the death of Sinwar would be the beginning of the end of this awful year fir both the ordinary people of Israel and Palestine.
[Post edited 18 Oct 2024 8:57]
The aim of all parties of the coalition government is territorial expansion, I don't understand why people pretend otherwise.
4
How many Lebanese lives is sufficient? on 10:12 - Oct 18 with 1648 views
How many Lebanese lives is sufficient? on 19:48 - Oct 17 by FBI
Full disclosure: I'm part-Jewish, lived in Israel and have Israeli family, some of whom have served in the IDF.
That said:
I can't find a position to take. I know that sounds ridiculous so no need to point it out, thanks.
Netanyahu's utterly vile and always has been, but I can understand the initial response to the October hostage-taking and slaughter at the festival. What I can't understand is the horrific, OTT nature of that response. It's nothing but a war crime.
If you speak to most Israelis, thay'll tell you about how Israel has been attacked almost constantly since the first day of independence in 1948 from all sides.
On the other hand, Palestinian Arabs will rightly refer to the fact that they were cruelly displaced and have been attacked and downtrodden by Israel since then.
The simple answer is that the constant tit-for-tatting and whataboutery of both sides has resulted in the unnecessary deaths of many thousands of people over several decades, few of whom asked to be involved and, frankly, would like to just get on with their lives without the influence of politically-motivated warmongers on both sides.
I adore the country of Israel. It's beautiful and full of decent people. But the STATE of Israel? It disgusts me.
What's needed is for good, peace-loving people on both sides of the conflict to stand up and say 'no more deaths' but, as long as politicians with a desperate need to cling to power remain in charge, Jews and Muslims are going to carry on dying needlessly.
That's an excellent and honest post. One of the best I've seen on this subject.
Between Isreals far right nationalist government and the crazy extreme elements of Hamas the innocent civilians of Isreal and Palastine are still a long way from living in peace I fear
5
How many Lebanese lives is sufficient? on 10:19 - Oct 18 with 1636 views
How many Lebanese lives is sufficient? on 19:48 - Oct 17 by FBI
Full disclosure: I'm part-Jewish, lived in Israel and have Israeli family, some of whom have served in the IDF.
That said:
I can't find a position to take. I know that sounds ridiculous so no need to point it out, thanks.
Netanyahu's utterly vile and always has been, but I can understand the initial response to the October hostage-taking and slaughter at the festival. What I can't understand is the horrific, OTT nature of that response. It's nothing but a war crime.
If you speak to most Israelis, thay'll tell you about how Israel has been attacked almost constantly since the first day of independence in 1948 from all sides.
On the other hand, Palestinian Arabs will rightly refer to the fact that they were cruelly displaced and have been attacked and downtrodden by Israel since then.
The simple answer is that the constant tit-for-tatting and whataboutery of both sides has resulted in the unnecessary deaths of many thousands of people over several decades, few of whom asked to be involved and, frankly, would like to just get on with their lives without the influence of politically-motivated warmongers on both sides.
I adore the country of Israel. It's beautiful and full of decent people. But the STATE of Israel? It disgusts me.
What's needed is for good, peace-loving people on both sides of the conflict to stand up and say 'no more deaths' but, as long as politicians with a desperate need to cling to power remain in charge, Jews and Muslims are going to carry on dying needlessly.
Superbly put. I’d love to go to Israel one day. I was born in the wrong era. I’d have liked to have been a hippy back in the 60s and 70s when you could do a road trip down through the Middle East to Afghanistan, Pakistan and then end up in a fug of low grade narcotics and bet in Shimla or Manali or somewhere.
How many Lebanese lives is sufficient? on 10:19 - Oct 18 by Swansea_Blue
Superbly put. I’d love to go to Israel one day. I was born in the wrong era. I’d have liked to have been a hippy back in the 60s and 70s when you could do a road trip down through the Middle East to Afghanistan, Pakistan and then end up in a fug of low grade narcotics and bet in Shimla or Manali or somewhere.
It's good to have goals and ambitions Swanners. Though if yer heading for Pakistan, Afghanistan etc you may be heading in the wrong direction for 'low grade' narcotics
How many Lebanese lives is sufficient? on 10:12 - Oct 18 by leitrimblue
That's an excellent and honest post. One of the best I've seen on this subject.
Between Isreals far right nationalist government and the crazy extreme elements of Hamas the innocent civilians of Isreal and Palastine are still a long way from living in peace I fear
That is, in essence, how I also feel about this whole conflict. It has had an astronomical civilian toll due to entities in power being on a staunch mandate. Then that rhetoric comes barrelling down to civilians across the world who are also being gripped by extreme views or fear.
The Hamas attack last year was a very calculated terror attack that has incited a terror response across the world, and the reply has been devastating for innocent communities. My fear is that Lebanon will now see a lot more support shown from citizens towards Hezbollah as they witness the destruction taking place around them - and so the cycle continues.
There really are no winners here, but god does it seem we're a long long way from seeing just how much ends up being lost once all is said and done.
How many Lebanese lives is sufficient? on 10:26 - Oct 18 by wkj
That is, in essence, how I also feel about this whole conflict. It has had an astronomical civilian toll due to entities in power being on a staunch mandate. Then that rhetoric comes barrelling down to civilians across the world who are also being gripped by extreme views or fear.
The Hamas attack last year was a very calculated terror attack that has incited a terror response across the world, and the reply has been devastating for innocent communities. My fear is that Lebanon will now see a lot more support shown from citizens towards Hezbollah as they witness the destruction taking place around them - and so the cycle continues.
There really are no winners here, but god does it seem we're a long long way from seeing just how much ends up being lost once all is said and done.
the attack last year is only part of the atrocities committed by hamas. of almost equal awfulness is for an technically advanced (iran funded) army to strategically embed itself amongst civilians, refugee camps, civilian infrastructure and residential buildings. militarising civilian infrastructure and using civilians as a shield (no one can seriously deny that is the hamas strategy) is almost as appalling.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
0
How many Lebanese lives is sufficient? on 10:46 - Oct 18 with 1535 views
How many Lebanese lives is sufficient? on 10:26 - Oct 18 by wkj
That is, in essence, how I also feel about this whole conflict. It has had an astronomical civilian toll due to entities in power being on a staunch mandate. Then that rhetoric comes barrelling down to civilians across the world who are also being gripped by extreme views or fear.
The Hamas attack last year was a very calculated terror attack that has incited a terror response across the world, and the reply has been devastating for innocent communities. My fear is that Lebanon will now see a lot more support shown from citizens towards Hezbollah as they witness the destruction taking place around them - and so the cycle continues.
There really are no winners here, but god does it seem we're a long long way from seeing just how much ends up being lost once all is said and done.
Im guessing that the most extreme elements amongst Hamas have got exactly the response they were looking for.
This is probably gonna give them another generation of volunteers.And as you say the cycle continues and the innocent civilians on both sides suffer.
That's a very sensible response from a Col U supporter
1
How many Lebanese lives is sufficient? on 11:11 - Oct 18 with 1418 views
How many Lebanese lives is sufficient? on 10:26 - Oct 18 by wkj
That is, in essence, how I also feel about this whole conflict. It has had an astronomical civilian toll due to entities in power being on a staunch mandate. Then that rhetoric comes barrelling down to civilians across the world who are also being gripped by extreme views or fear.
The Hamas attack last year was a very calculated terror attack that has incited a terror response across the world, and the reply has been devastating for innocent communities. My fear is that Lebanon will now see a lot more support shown from citizens towards Hezbollah as they witness the destruction taking place around them - and so the cycle continues.
There really are no winners here, but god does it seem we're a long long way from seeing just how much ends up being lost once all is said and done.
The scourge of nationalism continues to bring out the worst in humanity.
3
How many Lebanese lives is sufficient? on 13:32 - Oct 18 with 1270 views
How many Lebanese lives is sufficient? on 10:57 - Oct 18 by leitrimblue
Im guessing that the most extreme elements amongst Hamas have got exactly the response they were looking for.
This is probably gonna give them another generation of volunteers.And as you say the cycle continues and the innocent civilians on both sides suffer.
That's a very sensible response from a Col U supporter
Thanks Mate!
Being Colchester United’s #1 fan is not just about supporting the team on match days—it's a lifestyle. From the excitement of matchday buildup to the thrill of cheering in the stands, there's a sense of belonging that comes with being a part of the U’s faithful. Every goal, tackle, and save is personal, like living the highs and lows with the players themselves. Watching the team grow, whether it’s an unexpected cup run or battling for promotion, fills every week with anticipation. You become part of a family of fans, bound by the shared memories of epic matches and heart-wrenching defeats.
It’s not just about what happens on the pitch, either. Being Col U’s top fan means supporting the club off the field, too—wearing the colors proudly around town, staying connected with the fan community, and even taking part in events or fundraisers to help the club thrive. Whether the team is playing under the lights at the JobServe Community Stadium or away at a rival’s ground, there’s always the satisfaction of knowing that your loyalty makes a difference. It’s about dedication through thick and thin, believing in the team when times are tough, and celebrating when success finally comes.
(Thank god for chatGPT or people would begin doubting my die hard support of Colchester United Associated Football Club)
How many Lebanese lives is sufficient? on 14:09 - Oct 18 by wkj
Thanks Mate!
Being Colchester United’s #1 fan is not just about supporting the team on match days—it's a lifestyle. From the excitement of matchday buildup to the thrill of cheering in the stands, there's a sense of belonging that comes with being a part of the U’s faithful. Every goal, tackle, and save is personal, like living the highs and lows with the players themselves. Watching the team grow, whether it’s an unexpected cup run or battling for promotion, fills every week with anticipation. You become part of a family of fans, bound by the shared memories of epic matches and heart-wrenching defeats.
It’s not just about what happens on the pitch, either. Being Col U’s top fan means supporting the club off the field, too—wearing the colors proudly around town, staying connected with the fan community, and even taking part in events or fundraisers to help the club thrive. Whether the team is playing under the lights at the JobServe Community Stadium or away at a rival’s ground, there’s always the satisfaction of knowing that your loyalty makes a difference. It’s about dedication through thick and thin, believing in the team when times are tough, and celebrating when success finally comes.
(Thank god for chatGPT or people would begin doubting my die hard support of Colchester United Associated Football Club)
Your love for your club and community does you proud. Was gonna suggest that only Alison Moyet could compete with your love of Col U. Then remembered she was Southend leaving the coast clear for yerself
1
How many Lebanese lives is sufficient? on 14:37 - Oct 18 with 1139 views
How many Lebanese lives is sufficient? on 14:22 - Oct 18 by leitrimblue
Your love for your club and community does you proud. Was gonna suggest that only Alison Moyet could compete with your love of Col U. Then remembered she was Southend leaving the coast clear for yerself
You forgot Steve Lamacq who could have been an Ipswich fan because his dad is.
How many Lebanese lives is sufficient? on 14:22 - Oct 18 by leitrimblue
Your love for your club and community does you proud. Was gonna suggest that only Alison Moyet could compete with your love of Col U. Then remembered she was Southend leaving the coast clear for yerself
Im glad I didn't have to correct you on that fact. Sadly, it's not all plain sailing at the JobServe Arena. Noel Edmonds and Moira Stewart regularly turn up, and lets just say they don't like twiddling their thumbs on the train journey.
We played a fierce rival football club last season in the League Tournament and Edmonds was reeking of Absinth while Moira was egging him on and necking her own hipflask of Sherry between taunts. The stewards had to get involved, which caused a kerfuffle for people to see- really soured the season.
I did consider supporting Ipswich instead after those ugly scenes, but Jobserve till I die!
How many Lebanese lives is sufficient? on 14:39 - Oct 18 by wkj
Im glad I didn't have to correct you on that fact. Sadly, it's not all plain sailing at the JobServe Arena. Noel Edmonds and Moira Stewart regularly turn up, and lets just say they don't like twiddling their thumbs on the train journey.
We played a fierce rival football club last season in the League Tournament and Edmonds was reeking of Absinth while Moira was egging him on and necking her own hipflask of Sherry between taunts. The stewards had to get involved, which caused a kerfuffle for people to see- really soured the season.
I did consider supporting Ipswich instead after those ugly scenes, but Jobserve till I die!
Stop derailing the thread. I know your game.
2
How many Lebanese lives is sufficient? on 14:51 - Oct 18 with 1085 views
How many Lebanese lives is sufficient? on 14:48 - Oct 18 by Blueschev
Stop derailing the thread. I know your game.
You caught me, I am living rent free on this board trying to let other Col U fans swarm in and take all the Ipswich Town supporters wives/husbands and jobs - I would have gotten away with it too if it wasn't for you pesky meddling tractors!
How many Lebanese lives is sufficient? on 14:39 - Oct 18 by wkj
Im glad I didn't have to correct you on that fact. Sadly, it's not all plain sailing at the JobServe Arena. Noel Edmonds and Moira Stewart regularly turn up, and lets just say they don't like twiddling their thumbs on the train journey.
We played a fierce rival football club last season in the League Tournament and Edmonds was reeking of Absinth while Moira was egging him on and necking her own hipflask of Sherry between taunts. The stewards had to get involved, which caused a kerfuffle for people to see- really soured the season.
I did consider supporting Ipswich instead after those ugly scenes, but Jobserve till I die!
Edwards and Stewarts behaviour after a few drinks is one of the reasons my father choose to take me to Portman Road over Layer Road as a kid. For all of Moyets downsides ( and I'm including that awful song Love Letters as 1 of um) she can handle her drink and barely causes an issue at the Roots Hall Celebrity VIP bar. Though if you do ever convert to Ipswich over say Southend at least you won't have to lazer remove your full back piece Tom Eastman tattoo
1
How many Lebanese lives is sufficient? on 22:52 - Oct 18 with 845 views
How many Lebanese lives is sufficient? on 21:00 - Oct 16 by Lord_Lucan
Really Stevie?
I guess if we were really honest we would condemn Israel government for doing some bloody sh1t stuff but realise that the fecking problem is Hamas, hezbollah and fecking Iran.
Call me a complete lunatic but can we stop Hamas hiding weapons in hospitals and schools?
...........and call me very old fashioned but can we start by releasing some hostages (whoever is alive after sustained rape and torture)
Let's have a fun game, a sort of quiz.
Stevie and his daughters are stranded and have to choose where to live in a hurry
A/ Israel B/ Hamas run (country of your choice) C/ Iran
Hiding arms, rockets and terrorists in tents on the grounds of a hospital, evil incarnate.
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