| Is FVS replacing VAR on 11:55 - Nov 14 with 2423 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
No, it seems to be a cheap alternative.
VAR doesnt seem to be improving the game, or the treatment of officials.
Implementing a cheaper system lower down the pyramid is one of the worst ideas Ive ever heard. |  |
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| Is FVS replacing VAR on 11:56 - Nov 14 with 2405 views | Keno |
| Is FVS replacing VAR on 11:55 - Nov 14 by Marshalls_Mullet |
No, it seems to be a cheap alternative.
VAR doesnt seem to be improving the game, or the treatment of officials.
Implementing a cheaper system lower down the pyramid is one of the worst ideas Ive ever heard. |
FIFA, bad ideas ..... surely not!! |  |
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| Is FVS replacing VAR on 11:57 - Nov 14 with 2401 views | tractorboy1978 |
Surely this is worse than VAR as it means more stops in play, more time wasted and a worse viewing experience? |  | | |
| Is FVS replacing VAR on 12:00 - Nov 14 with 2380 views | Edmundo |
I like the idea of it being an appeal based process. I think Kieran might have been shouting for that in the Leicester match. |  |
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| Is FVS replacing VAR on 12:04 - Nov 14 with 2345 views | BseaBlue |
| Is FVS replacing VAR on 11:55 - Nov 14 by Marshalls_Mullet |
No, it seems to be a cheap alternative.
VAR doesnt seem to be improving the game, or the treatment of officials.
Implementing a cheaper system lower down the pyramid is one of the worst ideas Ive ever heard. |
I quite like the review system but agree with your point. One of the romantic notions of football growing up was that it was the same rules from grass roots through to the Premier League.
Adding VAR seemed to distance that and this seems like it just makes it even more complicated. |  | | |
| Is FVS replacing VAR on 12:29 - Nov 14 with 2241 views | Basuco |
There is nothing wrong with VAR, the main question for me is, why do Premier League referee's make so many clear mistakes when they are able to watch multiple slow motion replays of an incident? If they use the semi automated system to get a quick accurate response to off sides it would be a big improvement on the huge delays we currently get. Why are the PL so against a quick easy offside decision making process? |  | | |
| Is FVS replacing VAR on 12:35 - Nov 14 with 2231 views | homer_123 |
| Is FVS replacing VAR on 12:29 - Nov 14 by Basuco |
There is nothing wrong with VAR, the main question for me is, why do Premier League referee's make so many clear mistakes when they are able to watch multiple slow motion replays of an incident? If they use the semi automated system to get a quick accurate response to off sides it would be a big improvement on the huge delays we currently get. Why are the PL so against a quick easy offside decision making process? |
"There is nothing wrong with VAR."
Apart from the fact it simply isn't needed. Well over 90% of decisions were correct before VAR came in.
At best it may have improved that but at what cost? It has literally taken the soul out of football. It wasn't needed, it's not fit for purpose and should be scrapped.
The additional investment made in VAR should be re-allocated to improving referee and assistants development and training and work towards changing the culture in football to one of respect towards officials.
Here's the thing, part and parcel of what makes football is that decisions sometimes go your way and sometimes don't. It's part of the DNA of football - they provide the talking points (good and bad) for Clubs.
Whether we like it or not, Clive Thomas is part our Club and history and forms a basis for who we are as supporters.
VAR has removed that - let alone removing the fact that you can't celebrate a bloody goal because a forearm hair is a gnats chaff offside. [Post edited 14 Nov 2024 12:58]
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| Is FVS replacing VAR on 13:03 - Nov 14 with 2101 views | Basuco |
| Is FVS replacing VAR on 12:35 - Nov 14 by homer_123 |
"There is nothing wrong with VAR."
Apart from the fact it simply isn't needed. Well over 90% of decisions were correct before VAR came in.
At best it may have improved that but at what cost? It has literally taken the soul out of football. It wasn't needed, it's not fit for purpose and should be scrapped.
The additional investment made in VAR should be re-allocated to improving referee and assistants development and training and work towards changing the culture in football to one of respect towards officials.
Here's the thing, part and parcel of what makes football is that decisions sometimes go your way and sometimes don't. It's part of the DNA of football - they provide the talking points (good and bad) for Clubs.
Whether we like it or not, Clive Thomas is part our Club and history and forms a basis for who we are as supporters.
VAR has removed that - let alone removing the fact that you can't celebrate a bloody goal because a forearm hair is a gnats chaff offside. [Post edited 14 Nov 2024 12:58]
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The biggest delays by far are the marginal offsides, get the semi-automated system in place and there are few if any delays, but more importantly you get the correct decision almost instantly. It is needed because it is often the perfectly timed runs that look offside but can clearly be seen not to be on a replay. There is no need for extended periods of time looking at pictures taken at odd angles and drawing lines, let the software do it instantly. It is how the PL insist on implementing VAR that is the problem. | | | |
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| Is FVS replacing VAR on 13:05 - Nov 14 with 2069 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Is FVS replacing VAR on 12:35 - Nov 14 by homer_123 |
"There is nothing wrong with VAR."
Apart from the fact it simply isn't needed. Well over 90% of decisions were correct before VAR came in.
At best it may have improved that but at what cost? It has literally taken the soul out of football. It wasn't needed, it's not fit for purpose and should be scrapped.
The additional investment made in VAR should be re-allocated to improving referee and assistants development and training and work towards changing the culture in football to one of respect towards officials.
Here's the thing, part and parcel of what makes football is that decisions sometimes go your way and sometimes don't. It's part of the DNA of football - they provide the talking points (good and bad) for Clubs.
Whether we like it or not, Clive Thomas is part our Club and history and forms a basis for who we are as supporters.
VAR has removed that - let alone removing the fact that you can't celebrate a bloody goal because a forearm hair is a gnats chaff offside. [Post edited 14 Nov 2024 12:58]
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Agreed.
Its has just made fans and pundits for pedantic.
I will take a lower % of correct decisions v what VAR has done to the game.
Bring back spontaneous joy, and being disgruntled about a bad decision made in a split second but forgetting about it after a few hours. | |
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| Is FVS replacing VAR on 13:06 - Nov 14 with 2049 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Is FVS replacing VAR on 13:03 - Nov 14 by Basuco |
The biggest delays by far are the marginal offsides, get the semi-automated system in place and there are few if any delays, but more importantly you get the correct decision almost instantly. It is needed because it is often the perfectly timed runs that look offside but can clearly be seen not to be on a replay. There is no need for extended periods of time looking at pictures taken at odd angles and drawing lines, let the software do it instantly. It is how the PL insist on implementing VAR that is the problem. |
Semi automated offside is a completely different discussion to VAR. | |
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| Is FVS replacing VAR on 13:17 - Nov 14 with 1997 views | homer_123 |
| Is FVS replacing VAR on 13:03 - Nov 14 by Basuco |
The biggest delays by far are the marginal offsides, get the semi-automated system in place and there are few if any delays, but more importantly you get the correct decision almost instantly. It is needed because it is often the perfectly timed runs that look offside but can clearly be seen not to be on a replay. There is no need for extended periods of time looking at pictures taken at odd angles and drawing lines, let the software do it instantly. It is how the PL insist on implementing VAR that is the problem. |
"The use of VAR is helpful in reducing critical errors and improving refereeing accuracy in complex and dynamic football match situations. For example, FIFA (2018) revealed that in the 2018 Men's World Cup, the accuracy rate of refereeing decisions was 95.60% when VAR was not employed and 99.35% when VAR was used. Additionally, in a study of 13 men's national leagues, using VAR was found to increase refereeing decision accuracy from 92.1 to 98.3% (Spitz et al., 2021)."
So, to my main point. Yes, VAR increases the number of correct decisions but at what cost?
For me there are two (there are others but these are my main two).
1. Spontaneity - it kills the game when you have to wait for a goal to be given. It ruins it.
2. Expectations - VAR raises expectations to an unrealistic level - it was supposed to get rid of poor, inaccurate decisions - yet, it has actually done the opposite, call it an unintended consequence if you like. Fans expect every decision to now be 100% but VAR doesn't deliver that - it is creating too many talking points when it was supposed to remove them.
A semi-automated system is different to VAR, would it speed things up, yes. Is it needed, no. Is VAR needed, no. If VAR was 100% accurate, is it needed, for me no but that is moot as it will never be.
Because ultimately, ref decisions, the human factor, plays an important part of what football is. [Post edited 14 Nov 2024 13:18]
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| Is FVS replacing VAR on 13:46 - Nov 14 with 1865 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Is FVS replacing VAR on 13:17 - Nov 14 by homer_123 |
"The use of VAR is helpful in reducing critical errors and improving refereeing accuracy in complex and dynamic football match situations. For example, FIFA (2018) revealed that in the 2018 Men's World Cup, the accuracy rate of refereeing decisions was 95.60% when VAR was not employed and 99.35% when VAR was used. Additionally, in a study of 13 men's national leagues, using VAR was found to increase refereeing decision accuracy from 92.1 to 98.3% (Spitz et al., 2021)."
So, to my main point. Yes, VAR increases the number of correct decisions but at what cost?
For me there are two (there are others but these are my main two).
1. Spontaneity - it kills the game when you have to wait for a goal to be given. It ruins it.
2. Expectations - VAR raises expectations to an unrealistic level - it was supposed to get rid of poor, inaccurate decisions - yet, it has actually done the opposite, call it an unintended consequence if you like. Fans expect every decision to now be 100% but VAR doesn't deliver that - it is creating too many talking points when it was supposed to remove them.
A semi-automated system is different to VAR, would it speed things up, yes. Is it needed, no. Is VAR needed, no. If VAR was 100% accurate, is it needed, for me no but that is moot as it will never be.
Because ultimately, ref decisions, the human factor, plays an important part of what football is. [Post edited 14 Nov 2024 13:18]
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No2 is a great point!!
Also, no one talks about football anymore, all they talk about is bloody VAR. | |
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| Is FVS replacing VAR on 13:53 - Nov 14 with 1833 views | Keno |
| Is FVS replacing VAR on 13:05 - Nov 14 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Agreed.
Its has just made fans and pundits for pedantic.
I will take a lower % of correct decisions v what VAR has done to the game.
Bring back spontaneous joy, and being disgruntled about a bad decision made in a split second but forgetting about it after a few hours. |
"forgetting about it after a few hours"
Clive Thomas Wednesday 9th April 1975 - still rankles!! | |
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| Is FVS replacing VAR on 13:57 - Nov 14 with 1793 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Is FVS replacing VAR on 13:53 - Nov 14 by Keno |
"forgetting about it after a few hours"
Clive Thomas Wednesday 9th April 1975 - still rankles!! |
🤣🤣 | |
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| Is FVS replacing VAR on 13:59 - Nov 14 with 1785 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Is FVS replacing VAR on 13:17 - Nov 14 by homer_123 |
"The use of VAR is helpful in reducing critical errors and improving refereeing accuracy in complex and dynamic football match situations. For example, FIFA (2018) revealed that in the 2018 Men's World Cup, the accuracy rate of refereeing decisions was 95.60% when VAR was not employed and 99.35% when VAR was used. Additionally, in a study of 13 men's national leagues, using VAR was found to increase refereeing decision accuracy from 92.1 to 98.3% (Spitz et al., 2021)."
So, to my main point. Yes, VAR increases the number of correct decisions but at what cost?
For me there are two (there are others but these are my main two).
1. Spontaneity - it kills the game when you have to wait for a goal to be given. It ruins it.
2. Expectations - VAR raises expectations to an unrealistic level - it was supposed to get rid of poor, inaccurate decisions - yet, it has actually done the opposite, call it an unintended consequence if you like. Fans expect every decision to now be 100% but VAR doesn't deliver that - it is creating too many talking points when it was supposed to remove them.
A semi-automated system is different to VAR, would it speed things up, yes. Is it needed, no. Is VAR needed, no. If VAR was 100% accurate, is it needed, for me no but that is moot as it will never be.
Because ultimately, ref decisions, the human factor, plays an important part of what football is. [Post edited 14 Nov 2024 13:18]
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I wonder how they determine these accuracy 'improvements' in the decisions that are right as well. So many decisions are subjective so who is deciding what is right/wrong? Feels like it is the PGMOL (in this country anyway) marking their own homework. Did the decision against us vs Leicester go down as the correct decision? | | | |
| Is FVS replacing VAR on 14:01 - Nov 14 with 1763 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Is FVS replacing VAR on 13:59 - Nov 14 by tractorboy1978 |
I wonder how they determine these accuracy 'improvements' in the decisions that are right as well. So many decisions are subjective so who is deciding what is right/wrong? Feels like it is the PGMOL (in this country anyway) marking their own homework. Did the decision against us vs Leicester go down as the correct decision? |
Agreed.
A large percentage of those will definitely be debatable. Its a false stat for sure. | |
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| Is FVS replacing VAR on 14:55 - Nov 14 with 1627 views | farkenhell |
| Is FVS replacing VAR on 12:35 - Nov 14 by homer_123 |
"There is nothing wrong with VAR."
Apart from the fact it simply isn't needed. Well over 90% of decisions were correct before VAR came in.
At best it may have improved that but at what cost? It has literally taken the soul out of football. It wasn't needed, it's not fit for purpose and should be scrapped.
The additional investment made in VAR should be re-allocated to improving referee and assistants development and training and work towards changing the culture in football to one of respect towards officials.
Here's the thing, part and parcel of what makes football is that decisions sometimes go your way and sometimes don't. It's part of the DNA of football - they provide the talking points (good and bad) for Clubs.
Whether we like it or not, Clive Thomas is part our Club and history and forms a basis for who we are as supporters.
VAR has removed that - let alone removing the fact that you can't celebrate a bloody goal because a forearm hair is a gnats chaff offside. [Post edited 14 Nov 2024 12:58]
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Citing Clive Thomas drives a coach and fore through your otherwise well-constructed point of view. That b@stard stole an FA Cup final from us!
I'm in the camp that sees the benefits of VAR - if only to avoid another Clive B@stard Thomas moment in such an important game. My beef is with the overuse of the system for marginal decisions (when the "clear and obvious " guidelines are ignored) and the misuse/mistakes that we saw in the Leicester game. | | | |
| Is FVS replacing VAR on 15:07 - Nov 14 with 1594 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Is FVS replacing VAR on 12:35 - Nov 14 by homer_123 |
"There is nothing wrong with VAR."
Apart from the fact it simply isn't needed. Well over 90% of decisions were correct before VAR came in.
At best it may have improved that but at what cost? It has literally taken the soul out of football. It wasn't needed, it's not fit for purpose and should be scrapped.
The additional investment made in VAR should be re-allocated to improving referee and assistants development and training and work towards changing the culture in football to one of respect towards officials.
Here's the thing, part and parcel of what makes football is that decisions sometimes go your way and sometimes don't. It's part of the DNA of football - they provide the talking points (good and bad) for Clubs.
Whether we like it or not, Clive Thomas is part our Club and history and forms a basis for who we are as supporters.
VAR has removed that - let alone removing the fact that you can't celebrate a bloody goal because a forearm hair is a gnats chaff offside. [Post edited 14 Nov 2024 12:58]
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You make some good points. The VAR system can work well though, not be intrusive and ensure correct decisions /fair play. Take the Euros this year for example. It was working very well until our numpty officials got their knickers in a twist in the Netherlands France match.
We certainly do need to improve officiating standards and the attitude towards officials, irrespective of whether VAR stays or goes. |  |
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| Is FVS replacing VAR on 16:38 - Nov 14 with 1456 views | homer_123 |
| Is FVS replacing VAR on 14:55 - Nov 14 by farkenhell |
Citing Clive Thomas drives a coach and fore through your otherwise well-constructed point of view. That b@stard stole an FA Cup final from us!
I'm in the camp that sees the benefits of VAR - if only to avoid another Clive B@stard Thomas moment in such an important game. My beef is with the overuse of the system for marginal decisions (when the "clear and obvious " guidelines are ignored) and the misuse/mistakes that we saw in the Leicester game. |
I would argue that CT for all his ills is part and parcel of football. | |
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| Is FVS replacing VAR on 16:39 - Nov 14 with 1457 views | homer_123 |
| Is FVS replacing VAR on 15:07 - Nov 14 by Swansea_Blue |
You make some good points. The VAR system can work well though, not be intrusive and ensure correct decisions /fair play. Take the Euros this year for example. It was working very well until our numpty officials got their knickers in a twist in the Netherlands France match.
We certainly do need to improve officiating standards and the attitude towards officials, irrespective of whether VAR stays or goes. |
And yet, over 90% of decisions were correct before VAR came in.
Ergo, did we ever need it?
Granted, it's probably here to stay but to the detriment of football, IMO. [Post edited 14 Nov 2024 16:39]
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| Is FVS replacing VAR on 16:41 - Nov 14 with 1447 views | homer_123 |
| Is FVS replacing VAR on 13:53 - Nov 14 by Keno |
"forgetting about it after a few hours"
Clive Thomas Wednesday 9th April 1975 - still rankles!! |
And that is the point - ALL clubs have those talking points. It's part of their identity, rightly or wrongly. | |
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| Is FVS replacing VAR on 16:49 - Nov 14 with 1418 views | Keno |
| Is FVS replacing VAR on 16:39 - Nov 14 by homer_123 |
And yet, over 90% of decisions were correct before VAR came in.
Ergo, did we ever need it?
Granted, it's probably here to stay but to the detriment of football, IMO. [Post edited 14 Nov 2024 16:39]
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if its implemented properly then there is not an issue (see your earlier comment about the Euros) | |
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| Is FVS replacing VAR on 16:57 - Nov 14 with 1394 views | homer_123 |
| Is FVS replacing VAR on 16:49 - Nov 14 by Keno |
if its implemented properly then there is not an issue (see your earlier comment about the Euros) |
I disagree.
It takes the soul from football. Which is my point, what's the benefit of going from 92% to 98% - do those benefits outweigh the negatives. For my they don't.
VAR cannot get to 100% and eradicate every error. If we were running at, say, only 50% of decisions being correct, then it makes perfect sense to introduce VAR.
We never were. | |
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| Is FVS replacing VAR on 17:39 - Nov 14 with 1336 views | Bellevue_Blue |
It's exactly the same, it just requires a coach intervention instead an automatic intervention.
For what it's worth I think VAR is a fundamentally good thing, it's just being used incorrectly. A review system will work but the 'clear and obvious error' nonsense needs to go because it just creates language which trips up the officials.
I'm not sure I get all the points regarding it taking away spontaneous joy. You still get the joy, but after the immediate joy has subsided there is a check to ensure the goal is correctly being awarded. Give me that every day as opposed to goals like Solanke's on Sunday being awarded.
I'm not sure why we make such a fuss. I've watched Football live, Cricket live, NFL live, Rugby league & union live and never once felt like my immediate joy was taken away due to a subsequent check on a wicket/ goal/ try etc. | | | |
| Is FVS replacing VAR on 18:59 - Nov 14 with 1231 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
I think all officials and VAR should be scrapped.
Just get AI to make a call and leave it to it.
Would remove all partiality and make it far more entertaining!
Did anyone else just think about that AI filming of a match with the bald linesman? |  |
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