| A few concise thoughts on KM 12:59 - Nov 29 with 4976 views | Dutchman1 |
Something I have been mulling over for a while. McKenna really is a fascinating personality. I actually believe he found the last 2 seasons easy bar the odd expected blip along the way. I also think he is revelling in a bit of hardship currently as he tackles the next phase of his career as it will make him a more rounded manager when he moves on - which he will - to one of the very top jobs. He will get the United gig one day but if he were to end up in Europe I would bet a month’s salary he has mastered the language and doing his press conference in Spanish, Italian or German within 6 months. Sir Alf Ramsey was before my time but he is already our second best manager since and clear by margin from the rest. Who knows where Ipswich end up over the next few years but I could not be more impressed with how he has gone about things across the board from preparation, tactics and nurturing the host of new faces in the current squad. |  | | |  |
| A few concise thoughts on KM on 13:10 - Nov 29 with 4837 views | monty_radio |
Agree with all that in principle, but I wonder if Man Utd will prove his ultimate goal. If he becomes a credible candidate while still young enough to energise them, then it would likely mean that even Amorim had failed to turn the ship around. If Amorim succeeds, and stays on to relish that success, a la Pep, then it could be Spurs for McKenna.
If it were to be Real Madrid, then he would either have overachieved massively here in order to be on their radar or, more likely achieved notable success elsewhere. All speculation, of course; footballing stock can fall in a very short span, just ask one F Lampard. |  |
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| A few concise thoughts on KM on 13:11 - Nov 29 with 4823 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
Woah!!
He's above Sir Bobby by some margin?! |  |
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| A few concise thoughts on KM on 13:16 - Nov 29 with 4794 views | Dutchman1 |
| A few concise thoughts on KM on 13:11 - Nov 29 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Woah!!
He's above Sir Bobby by some margin?! |
Second best since Sir Alf, so behind Sir Bobby. | | | |
| A few concise thoughts on KM on 13:29 - Nov 29 with 4701 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| A few concise thoughts on KM on 13:16 - Nov 29 by Dutchman1 |
Second best since Sir Alf, so behind Sir Bobby. |
Fair enough. | |
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| A few concise thoughts on KM on 13:35 - Nov 29 with 4675 views | bsw72 |
Cannot agree - for McKenna to be ranked in the same bracket as Robson and Ramsey he will need to win something and achieve sustained success for a period of time.
He has so far only really built one team - the second phase is still a work in progress.
The great managers have the ability to build and rebiuld teams over a period of time at a club, which adapt, evolve and get better.
He has, without doubt done far better than we ever hoped, but has only achieved 2 promotions as runner up but not actually won anything.
Ramsey also took over a sturggling 3rd tier side, built his first team and got promoted in 57 as Div 3 South Champions. He then built his next side and won the consecutive titles D2 and D1 from 1960-2.
Robson took over a mid Table Div side and built the first team which won the mighty Texaco Cup in '73, while developing the youth side more which won the FA Youth Cup in '73 and '75 with players that would go on to form the core of the team which won the FA Cup in '78, to which he further developed into the UEFA Cup winners in '81.
As of today McKenna sits probably alongside Burley, maybe slightly ahead - if McKenna can keep us up in the Prem and build a competitive team, will see him move into the realms of Robson and Ramsey, but the key differentiator will be if he goes on to win something with the club. |  | | |
| A few concise thoughts on KM on 13:41 - Nov 29 with 4636 views | sjg |
| A few concise thoughts on KM on 13:35 - Nov 29 by bsw72 |
Cannot agree - for McKenna to be ranked in the same bracket as Robson and Ramsey he will need to win something and achieve sustained success for a period of time.
He has so far only really built one team - the second phase is still a work in progress.
The great managers have the ability to build and rebiuld teams over a period of time at a club, which adapt, evolve and get better.
He has, without doubt done far better than we ever hoped, but has only achieved 2 promotions as runner up but not actually won anything.
Ramsey also took over a sturggling 3rd tier side, built his first team and got promoted in 57 as Div 3 South Champions. He then built his next side and won the consecutive titles D2 and D1 from 1960-2.
Robson took over a mid Table Div side and built the first team which won the mighty Texaco Cup in '73, while developing the youth side more which won the FA Youth Cup in '73 and '75 with players that would go on to form the core of the team which won the FA Cup in '78, to which he further developed into the UEFA Cup winners in '81.
As of today McKenna sits probably alongside Burley, maybe slightly ahead - if McKenna can keep us up in the Prem and build a competitive team, will see him move into the realms of Robson and Ramsey, but the key differentiator will be if he goes on to win something with the club. |
I read OP as meaning second best manager since Sir Alf, not including him - i.e. behind both | | | |
| A few concise thoughts on KM on 13:43 - Nov 29 with 4620 views | Churchman |
| A few concise thoughts on KM on 13:16 - Nov 29 by Dutchman1 |
Second best since Sir Alf, so behind Sir Bobby. |
Sir Alf’s achievement is off the scale. Before my time but the records speak for themselves. No 1.
After him, Bobby Robson. He built the club to a point where it achieved sustained success. No 2
George Burley took the club to an extraordinary finish in 2001. Took a while to get up, but his team was fun to watch and he had a real eye for a player. McKenna’s achievement in three years is also extraordinary. 3rd equal for me, but should we survive, then KM will overtake GB in my ranking.
After them in order and excluding caretakers:
5. John Lyall, 6. Bill McGarry, 7. Scott Duncan, 8. Joe Royle, 9. Mick McCarthy, 10. Jim Magilton, 11. John Duncan, 12. Bobby Ferguson, 13. Jackie Milburn, 14. Paul Cook, 15. Paul Jewell, 16. Paul Lambert, 17. Roy Keane 18. Paul Hurst [Post edited 29 Nov 2024 16:12]
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| A few concise thoughts on KM on 14:29 - Nov 29 with 4402 views | bsw72 |
| A few concise thoughts on KM on 13:41 - Nov 29 by sjg |
I read OP as meaning second best manager since Sir Alf, not including him - i.e. behind both |
Ah - the joy of skim reading.
Fair enough, I agree he is some way behind both SAR and BR. | | | |
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| A few concise thoughts on KM on 15:53 - Nov 29 with 4231 views | patrickswell |
| A few concise thoughts on KM on 13:43 - Nov 29 by Churchman |
Sir Alf’s achievement is off the scale. Before my time but the records speak for themselves. No 1.
After him, Bobby Robson. He built the club to a point where it achieved sustained success. No 2
George Burley took the club to an extraordinary finish in 2001. Took a while to get up, but his team was fun to watch and he had a real eye for a player. McKenna’s achievement in three years is also extraordinary. 3rd equal for me, but should we survive, then KM will overtake GB in my ranking.
After them in order and excluding caretakers:
5. John Lyall, 6. Bill McGarry, 7. Scott Duncan, 8. Joe Royle, 9. Mick McCarthy, 10. Jim Magilton, 11. John Duncan, 12. Bobby Ferguson, 13. Jackie Milburn, 14. Paul Cook, 15. Paul Jewell, 16. Paul Lambert, 17. Roy Keane 18. Paul Hurst [Post edited 29 Nov 2024 16:12]
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Does Cook come before or after Keane? |  | | |
| A few concise thoughts on KM on 15:56 - Nov 29 with 4224 views | blueasfook |
I think you need to read up on Sir Bobby's achievements before chucking KM in before him. He has two lower league runners up finishes. I think Sir Bob did a little better than that! |  |
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| A few concise thoughts on KM on 16:13 - Nov 29 with 4155 views | Churchman |
| A few concise thoughts on KM on 15:53 - Nov 29 by patrickswell |
Does Cook come before or after Keane? |
Trust me to miss one! Amended.
One thing for sure, never employ a manager called Paul!! | | | |
| A few concise thoughts on KM on 16:30 - Nov 29 with 4103 views | Illinoisblue |
| A few concise thoughts on KM on 13:41 - Nov 29 by sjg |
I read OP as meaning second best manager since Sir Alf, not including him - i.e. behind both |
Alf
Bobby
George
Kieran
John
In that order |  |
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| A few concise thoughts on KM on 16:39 - Nov 29 with 4056 views | wkj |
KMc is special, and he will forever be iconic at ITFC. Though you really can't put him in the Sir's category... yet. As others say, you need to have some silverware under the belt before he's in that discussion.
I would put him on par with Burley. I think Burley may still just edge him as the budgets of football meant you had to lose your talisman players to build a team - and Burley had to sell Dyer in order to get Marcus Stewart and promotion. Even though football inflation has ballooned between GB and KM, it does feel that KM has had slightly more financial freedom than GB did (up until promotion)
For this and the 5th place season, I would put Burley at a slight hairs reach in front of KM. If we stay up this season and solidify ourselves in the PL next season, then KM is on the podium.
Sadly for us, I have no doubt that KM will become one of footballing's managerial greats - but realistically, that status won't come while he's with us. I honestly think that ability, personality and dedication in consideration, football management could be below KM's level. It's not impossible to imagine someone like him in a U*FA or F*FA chairman position (if he perfects the art of corruption)... but for now, he's one of the ITFC greats, but not of of the ITFC greatest... yet. [Post edited 29 Nov 2024 16:41]
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| A few concise thoughts on KM on 20:45 - Nov 29 with 3768 views | backwaywhen |
| A few concise thoughts on KM on 13:11 - Nov 29 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Woah!!
He's above Sir Bobby by some margin?! |
I said from about 6 months into his tenor he is the new Bobby Robson and stick to my prediction, the man has all the attributes to succeed at the top level IMHO. | | | |
| A few concise thoughts on KM on 20:49 - Nov 29 with 3736 views | bluebudgie |
| A few concise thoughts on KM on 13:43 - Nov 29 by Churchman |
Sir Alf’s achievement is off the scale. Before my time but the records speak for themselves. No 1.
After him, Bobby Robson. He built the club to a point where it achieved sustained success. No 2
George Burley took the club to an extraordinary finish in 2001. Took a while to get up, but his team was fun to watch and he had a real eye for a player. McKenna’s achievement in three years is also extraordinary. 3rd equal for me, but should we survive, then KM will overtake GB in my ranking.
After them in order and excluding caretakers:
5. John Lyall, 6. Bill McGarry, 7. Scott Duncan, 8. Joe Royle, 9. Mick McCarthy, 10. Jim Magilton, 11. John Duncan, 12. Bobby Ferguson, 13. Jackie Milburn, 14. Paul Cook, 15. Paul Jewell, 16. Paul Lambert, 17. Roy Keane 18. Paul Hurst [Post edited 29 Nov 2024 16:12]
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I would put Bill McGarry also equal third as without him there wouldn't have been any halcyon Robson years.
McGarry took over in October 1964 when the club was in a terrible state it was languishing at the bottom of the old Division 2 and heading for Div 3, with an ageing team with morale at rock bottom.
John Cobbold brought McGarry in to wield some much-needed discipline, within three and half years McGarry had transformed Town and were Division 2 Champions in 67/68 with some very inspired signings..Yes, I know he left for Wolves in November 1968 but Wolves headhunted Mcgarry because of his terrific job at Ipswich.
The next manager was the great Sir Bob, but Ipswich wouldn't have had Bobby Robson without the efforts of Bill Mcgarry getting Town into the English top league. [Post edited 29 Nov 2024 22:17]
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| A few concise thoughts on KM on 05:24 - Nov 30 with 3368 views | Juggsy |
| A few concise thoughts on KM on 13:10 - Nov 29 by monty_radio |
Agree with all that in principle, but I wonder if Man Utd will prove his ultimate goal. If he becomes a credible candidate while still young enough to energise them, then it would likely mean that even Amorim had failed to turn the ship around. If Amorim succeeds, and stays on to relish that success, a la Pep, then it could be Spurs for McKenna.
If it were to be Real Madrid, then he would either have overachieved massively here in order to be on their radar or, more likely achieved notable success elsewhere. All speculation, of course; footballing stock can fall in a very short span, just ask one F Lampard. |
Frank Lampard never had any real stock as a manager. Relied on his name until it fell flat on him. |  | | |
| A few concise thoughts on KM on 10:12 - Dec 2 with 2925 views | monty_radio |
| A few concise thoughts on KM on 20:49 - Nov 29 by bluebudgie |
I would put Bill McGarry also equal third as without him there wouldn't have been any halcyon Robson years.
McGarry took over in October 1964 when the club was in a terrible state it was languishing at the bottom of the old Division 2 and heading for Div 3, with an ageing team with morale at rock bottom.
John Cobbold brought McGarry in to wield some much-needed discipline, within three and half years McGarry had transformed Town and were Division 2 Champions in 67/68 with some very inspired signings..Yes, I know he left for Wolves in November 1968 but Wolves headhunted Mcgarry because of his terrific job at Ipswich.
The next manager was the great Sir Bob, but Ipswich wouldn't have had Bobby Robson without the efforts of Bill Mcgarry getting Town into the English top league. [Post edited 29 Nov 2024 22:17]
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Shame that he blotted his copybook by announcing, as he went off to Wolves, that he'd taken us as far as he could, which was always read as a slur on us rather than an acknowledgement of his own limitations.
All thankfully forgotten in the welter of glory that followed, but to be able to depart well (a luxury afforded to few, as even Pep may eventually discover) is no small thing in the grander scheme of things, and, in McGarry's case constituting a failure which has always somewhat tarnished his legacy. | |
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| A few concise thoughts on KM on 12:16 - Dec 2 with 2619 views | chicoazul |
Some shade thrown at Burley in this thread |  |
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| A few concise thoughts on KM on 13:13 - Dec 2 with 2483 views | peterleeblue |
| A few concise thoughts on KM on 13:35 - Nov 29 by bsw72 |
Cannot agree - for McKenna to be ranked in the same bracket as Robson and Ramsey he will need to win something and achieve sustained success for a period of time.
He has so far only really built one team - the second phase is still a work in progress.
The great managers have the ability to build and rebiuld teams over a period of time at a club, which adapt, evolve and get better.
He has, without doubt done far better than we ever hoped, but has only achieved 2 promotions as runner up but not actually won anything.
Ramsey also took over a sturggling 3rd tier side, built his first team and got promoted in 57 as Div 3 South Champions. He then built his next side and won the consecutive titles D2 and D1 from 1960-2.
Robson took over a mid Table Div side and built the first team which won the mighty Texaco Cup in '73, while developing the youth side more which won the FA Youth Cup in '73 and '75 with players that would go on to form the core of the team which won the FA Cup in '78, to which he further developed into the UEFA Cup winners in '81.
As of today McKenna sits probably alongside Burley, maybe slightly ahead - if McKenna can keep us up in the Prem and build a competitive team, will see him move into the realms of Robson and Ramsey, but the key differentiator will be if he goes on to win something with the club. |
Level with GB for me.
Hopefully he succeeds further and keeps us up. |  | | |
| A few concise thoughts on KM on 16:49 - Dec 2 with 2301 views | Leaky |
Would put him 4th behind Sir Alf, Sir Bobby & George Burley if he keeps us he's level with GB |  | | |
| A few concise thoughts on KM on 18:19 - Dec 2 with 2193 views | carlo88 |
| A few concise thoughts on KM on 13:43 - Nov 29 by Churchman |
Sir Alf’s achievement is off the scale. Before my time but the records speak for themselves. No 1.
After him, Bobby Robson. He built the club to a point where it achieved sustained success. No 2
George Burley took the club to an extraordinary finish in 2001. Took a while to get up, but his team was fun to watch and he had a real eye for a player. McKenna’s achievement in three years is also extraordinary. 3rd equal for me, but should we survive, then KM will overtake GB in my ranking.
After them in order and excluding caretakers:
5. John Lyall, 6. Bill McGarry, 7. Scott Duncan, 8. Joe Royle, 9. Mick McCarthy, 10. Jim Magilton, 11. John Duncan, 12. Bobby Ferguson, 13. Jackie Milburn, 14. Paul Cook, 15. Paul Jewell, 16. Paul Lambert, 17. Roy Keane 18. Paul Hurst [Post edited 29 Nov 2024 16:12]
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I think you have your Pauls in the wrong order. Hurst, Cook & Jewell were at least trying. Lambert was trying only to keep his cv going until the next free lunch. He will always, and should always be last. Even if we employ Wayne Rooney next. |  | | |
| A few concise thoughts on KM on 20:48 - Dec 2 with 2079 views | Churchman |
| A few concise thoughts on KM on 18:19 - Dec 2 by carlo88 |
I think you have your Pauls in the wrong order. Hurst, Cook & Jewell were at least trying. Lambert was trying only to keep his cv going until the next free lunch. He will always, and should always be last. Even if we employ Wayne Rooney next. |
Well I did put Cook and Jewell above him!
Yep, Lambert was a useless, unintelligible, bag of gas. Literally stealing a living and on a five year contract a big fat one too. It’s a matter of which pile of brown stuff you step in is worse when measuring him against the boilerman and hapless Hurst.
Keane hosed up the wall a decent opportunity. We became ‘Roy Keane’s Ipswich’. Identity flushed down the pan to gales of laughter. He seemed quite good at bullying people, but didn’t know a team from a teapot. Hirst? Desperate, just desperate.
But if the definitive list puts video Lambert at the bottom of the heap, I’m happy with that.
With regards to the discussion re McGarry, yes he got us promoted after the mess left by Milburn. He did a good job with us, but then thought himself better than us and better than he was and legged it to big club Wolves. Gets a downgrade for that alone. Because I’m precious like that😃.
But the real reason is that I remember much more of Lyall’s team that played with identity, good characters and style. | | | |
| A few concise thoughts on KM on 22:55 - Dec 2 with 1916 views | cressi |
The only thing for me Burley bleed blue whilst McKenna has done a amazing job what happened in the summer and if rumours are right with Palace do t sit right with me although he got himself a huge pay deal. | | | |
| A few concise thoughts on KM on 23:19 - Dec 2 with 1853 views | Churchman |
| A few concise thoughts on KM on 22:55 - Dec 2 by cressi |
The only thing for me Burley bleed blue whilst McKenna has done a amazing job what happened in the summer and if rumours are right with Palace do t sit right with me although he got himself a huge pay deal. |
I still maintain that in pure job/achievement terms they’re about level.
If it was a case of both managers in their prime, who would you prefer at the club, I’d choose GB for the reason you give - GB is wedded to the club. For KM it’s a stepping stone. | | | |
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