| Genuine question for the Faragets. 09:32 - Jan 5 with 4554 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
What policies are you expecting team Trump/Musk/Farage to present and what is it in their characters that you believe will make things better for the average man and woman? |  |
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| Genuine question for the Faragets. on 11:03 - Jan 5 with 1070 views | The_Major |
| Genuine question for the Faragets. on 10:51 - Jan 5 by redrickstuhaart |
Because its neither appropriate nor necessary when we have an existing comprehensive enquiry with recommendations that the last government failed to action, and Oldham can (and were preparing) to do their own in an entirely normal and proper manner.
The last government declined to agree a national one as well.
The "need" for this is the creation of Tommy Robinson, Farage et al. Why on earth are people interested in dancing to their tune? |
Because that's what they are told by these individuals - and by papers such as the Mail and the Telegraph. People simply do not do research, they don't question - they just blindly assume that what they are told by proven liars (See Johnson, B) is correct.
When the EU referendum was announced - the one hope I did have is that people would do proper research on it - I wasn't dumb enough to assume that everybody would think the same way I would - if people voted to leave having done research into it, then fair enough, you've just come to a different conclusion than I have.
But we know this didn't happen - swathes of people voted to leave because of what Farage said, because of the countless Express and Mail front pages, because they stood behind someone who was speaking Polish in the queue at Sainsbury's - they didn't say "Hang on, is that right?" and tried to take a closer look at it.
And that's why old Twitter was useful - you'd get people challenging the lies, and proving verifiable evidence that these claims were false - but of course now with the pathetic scrote Musk running things, the claims now drown out the rebuttals.
People need to understand that Musk, Trump, Farage, Johnson, Yaxley-Lennon - they couldn't give a damn about you whether you support them or not. They're only interested in themselves. They are bereft of morals and decency, and if you can't see that, if you are hanging on their every single word, then well, that's up to you, you're entitled to your choice.
But don't you dare bring the rest of us down with you. |  | | |
| Genuine question for the Faragets. on 11:08 - Jan 5 with 1033 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Genuine question for the Faragets. on 09:58 - Jan 5 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Anti-globalisation, protectionism, wacky foreign policy, and bigotry.
It reads like Jezza’s career- thought you’d love these guys. |
Tbf the first one sounds good in terms of sustainability and the environment. As for the second you're a fan of the EU so perhaps they have something for everyone after all. [Post edited 5 Jan 11:25]
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| Genuine question for the Faragets. on 11:14 - Jan 5 with 999 views | Guthrum |
| Genuine question for the Faragets. on 11:02 - Jan 5 by lowhouseblue |
but this is a massive scandal involving the rape of thousands of children. it was a systematic public sector failure across multiple cities. in terms of scale and public concern it ticks all the boxes for a national enquiry. the widespread perception is that we have a political elite which is scared of being open about this. this stuff left fester builds up resentment and empowers opportunists like farage. |
Enquiries are not action. They don't achieve anything on their own.
Would actual policies and changes of procedure (not just policing, but also child social care) not be more effective in actually stopping these situations from developing and satisfying the public that action is being taken? Is that not a better way to spend £100m than an elaborate and ultimately pointless public blame-game? |  |
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| Genuine question for the Faragets. on 11:17 - Jan 5 with 981 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Genuine question for the Faragets. on 10:38 - Jan 5 by lowhouseblue |
you think people are expressing support for farage because of his policies? really? they like farage because he is a rejection of the status quo. he is the 'f!ck them all' candidate just like trump was. trump won because the democrats became toxic to a large swathe of middle class americans. the democrats were seen as elitist and out of touch. polling shows that the trump ad with the biggest impact was "harris is for they / them, trump is for you". if you're actually serious about the uk avoiding farage, rather than just posing on a message board, then you need to hope that starmer achieves growth and rising real wages, and much better public services. you also need him to engage with the voters' 'genuine concerns' (obviously some posters use that phrase as a smug insult, but ignoring people's concerns hasn't done much good so far). starmer needs to get net immigration down (the boats are a very small part of that). if we ever end up with farage it won't be because of his policies, it'll be because the political class has failed to listen to, and has belittled and rejected as thick and racist, a large swathe of working class voters. it'll because we failed to learn from the democrat car crash. |
Thanks for telling me exactly what I wasn't thinking and then spelling out what I was. It is however worth getting those who feel let down to actually clarify what they expect from their saviours.
So what odds would you give on Starmer doing any of that.
I agree on your last 2 sentences. | |
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| Genuine question for the Faragets. on 11:18 - Jan 5 with 974 views | eireblue |
| Genuine question for the Faragets. on 10:54 - Jan 5 by lowhouseblue |
it's not just about oldham though is it. who amongst the police and social services etc has been held to account as a result of the enquiries to date. why hold out against openness when there is clearly a widespread perception that things are being covered up and action isn't being taken. if you want to defuse the current political discontent, and the rise of farage, politicians need to listen to what lots of voters are concerned by. why let this stuff fester. |
This one took a few years, https://www.iicsa.org.uk/index.html
One way to combat the perception of cover ups, is for responsible political people to read it and ensure the recommendations.
Even if there was an enquiry, Farage et al, will say it is a whitewash, if it suits them, and their followers will agree. |  | | |
| Genuine question for the Faragets. on 11:19 - Jan 5 with 971 views | lowhouseblue |
| Genuine question for the Faragets. on 11:14 - Jan 5 by Guthrum |
Enquiries are not action. They don't achieve anything on their own.
Would actual policies and changes of procedure (not just policing, but also child social care) not be more effective in actually stopping these situations from developing and satisfying the public that action is being taken? Is that not a better way to spend £100m than an elaborate and ultimately pointless public blame-game? |
enquiries prove there is no cover up and build trust in our political system. trust in our political system is being eroded currently - £100 million to (i) show we understand the scale and awfulness of this scandal and rebuild trust; and (ii) hold the public sector to account; and (iii) identify "actual policies and changes of procedure" would be money well spent.
actual policies and changes of procedure come out of an enquiry - that's a large part of the point. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Genuine question for the Faragets. on 11:21 - Jan 5 with 962 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Genuine question for the Faragets. on 10:40 - Jan 5 by The_Major |
Ah, Farage, the self proclaimed man of the people who banks at the same institution as the Royal Family, and attended Boxing Day hunts.
"Stop the boats" comes the cry - ok then, presumably you're all for safe and legal routes into the UK. Because if you look at a graph of the UK birth rate, you note that the birth rate in the late fifties, so those who are now retiring and leaving the workforce, is far far higher than the birth rate in the mid 2000s that will now be those coming into working age.
So there's a massive gap.Even with full employment, you'd have this discrepancy. It's a simple demographic fact. And you'll get those who say the solution is for British women to become baby machines and have 47 children each or something. But even if you were to say "Righto, we'll get right on it" - any child born now isn't joining the workforce until 2043.
It's dimwitted short sighted nonsense designed to pander to sheep, as said above. And that's why Farage has formed this unholy trinity with a proven sex offender and a narcissitic man baby. And in answer to the question above, I give it six months before Trump and Musk fall out - see Cummings and Johnson for comparison - these people have massive egos and cannot stand to be seen as the junior partner.
The UK government needs to grow some cojones fast - Look at the things Musk has said about Starmer and Jess Phillips in the last 48 hours - we've got to do better than Wes Streeting's pathetic sycophancy yesterday in calling these things out, and calling these people what they are. Appreciate that the realism of international diplomacy means that as far as Trump is concerned, we have to do it through the correct channels, but Musk is not an elected official and shouldn't be exempt from people telling him some home truths.
One last thing - I note that Farage gave his "New Year message" the other day - now, I'll grant you, I wasn't expecting him to be delivering it strolling down the middle of Pier Avenue in Clacton, but he was in, of all places, Blenheim Palace. Obviously trying to pretend he's Churchill.
Which is ironic, because at the end of the day, Farage is no Churchill, he's a Poundland Lord Haw-Haw. A pathetic quisling. A plague on all their houses. |
I will add you to the list of those who will like me be one of the Suffer-Faragets because believe me it's coming. | |
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| Genuine question for the Faragets. on 11:27 - Jan 5 with 932 views | lowhouseblue |
| Genuine question for the Faragets. on 11:18 - Jan 5 by eireblue |
This one took a few years, https://www.iicsa.org.uk/index.html
One way to combat the perception of cover ups, is for responsible political people to read it and ensure the recommendations.
Even if there was an enquiry, Farage et al, will say it is a whitewash, if it suits them, and their followers will agree. |
that wasn't an enquiry into grooming gangs. this is a specific scandal involving the abject failure of our police and social services to protect thousands of vulnerable working class kids from rape. it's not unreasonable to hold an enquiry into that specific scandal and to work out why the same failures occurred across multiple authorities and police forces. it feels an odd thing not to want answers to - and at a time of political division and mistrust a dangerous thing to appear defensive about. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Genuine question for the Faragets. on 11:28 - Jan 5 with 926 views | MattinLondon |
| Genuine question for the Faragets. on 11:01 - Jan 5 by Benters |
How is Norway today ? |
Probably a lot more friendlier than the yokels of Bentley. |  | | |
| Genuine question for the Faragets. on 11:30 - Jan 5 with 912 views | Radlett_blue |
I'm not sure about specifics, but some feel that they will initiate pro-business polices, which will be a far more effective way of stimulating economic growth and jobs than government schemes. On the other hand, their policies are also likely to make the rich richer. |  |
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| Genuine question for the Faragets. on 11:38 - Jan 5 with 870 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Genuine question for the Faragets. on 11:27 - Jan 5 by lowhouseblue |
that wasn't an enquiry into grooming gangs. this is a specific scandal involving the abject failure of our police and social services to protect thousands of vulnerable working class kids from rape. it's not unreasonable to hold an enquiry into that specific scandal and to work out why the same failures occurred across multiple authorities and police forces. it feels an odd thing not to want answers to - and at a time of political division and mistrust a dangerous thing to appear defensive about. |
I repeat. This "need" is one invented by culture war driven agendas.
Enquiries have already happened and clear recommendations made. Arrests and prison sentences have already been handed out. If ther eis evidence to support more, they will doubtless be pursued. |  | | |
| Genuine question for the Faragets. on 11:43 - Jan 5 with 847 views | blueislander |
| Genuine question for the Faragets. on 10:38 - Jan 5 by lowhouseblue |
you think people are expressing support for farage because of his policies? really? they like farage because he is a rejection of the status quo. he is the 'f!ck them all' candidate just like trump was. trump won because the democrats became toxic to a large swathe of middle class americans. the democrats were seen as elitist and out of touch. polling shows that the trump ad with the biggest impact was "harris is for they / them, trump is for you". if you're actually serious about the uk avoiding farage, rather than just posing on a message board, then you need to hope that starmer achieves growth and rising real wages, and much better public services. you also need him to engage with the voters' 'genuine concerns' (obviously some posters use that phrase as a smug insult, but ignoring people's concerns hasn't done much good so far). starmer needs to get net immigration down (the boats are a very small part of that). if we ever end up with farage it won't be because of his policies, it'll be because the political class has failed to listen to, and has belittled and rejected as thick and racist, a large swathe of working class voters. it'll because we failed to learn from the democrat car crash. |
That was a difficult read. Presumably his keyboard does not have a capitals button | | | |
| Genuine question for the Faragets. on 11:47 - Jan 5 with 832 views | lowhouseblue |
| Genuine question for the Faragets. on 11:38 - Jan 5 by redrickstuhaart |
I repeat. This "need" is one invented by culture war driven agendas.
Enquiries have already happened and clear recommendations made. Arrests and prison sentences have already been handed out. If ther eis evidence to support more, they will doubtless be pursued. |
"This "need" is one invented by culture war driven agendas."
no the need is due to a national scandal on a pretty unprecedented scale that saw our public services fail to protect thousands of vulnerable working class kids from rape. that scandal is absolutely appalling and should be higher up our national political agenda and should get the full cleansing effect of daylight. maybe those kids deserve the sort of compensation that has come out of other equivalent enquiries. trying to spin it as 'invented' and as just "the culture war" is incredibly insulting, dismissive and out of touch. it smacks of the political elite covering it's back and failing to listen. responding to the things that matter to lots of voters with culture war rhetoric is what did for the democrats and why we now have trump. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Genuine question for the Faragets. on 11:48 - Jan 5 with 822 views | lowhouseblue |
| Genuine question for the Faragets. on 11:43 - Jan 5 by blueislander |
That was a difficult read. Presumably his keyboard does not have a capitals button |
well just keep trying, you can use your finger to track the words if that helps. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Genuine question for the Faragets. on 12:00 - Jan 5 with 785 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Genuine question for the Faragets. on 11:47 - Jan 5 by lowhouseblue |
"This "need" is one invented by culture war driven agendas."
no the need is due to a national scandal on a pretty unprecedented scale that saw our public services fail to protect thousands of vulnerable working class kids from rape. that scandal is absolutely appalling and should be higher up our national political agenda and should get the full cleansing effect of daylight. maybe those kids deserve the sort of compensation that has come out of other equivalent enquiries. trying to spin it as 'invented' and as just "the culture war" is incredibly insulting, dismissive and out of touch. it smacks of the political elite covering it's back and failing to listen. responding to the things that matter to lots of voters with culture war rhetoric is what did for the democrats and why we now have trump. |
The need driven by what happened has already been met. Thats the point. The last government agreed and took the same view.
What questions do you believe answers are needed on, which have not been addressed by the other enquiries and cannot be addressed by an Oldham one? | | | |
| Genuine question for the Faragets. on 12:04 - Jan 5 with 756 views | noggin |
| Genuine question for the Faragets. on 11:01 - Jan 5 by Benters |
How is Norway today ? |
Snowy but with a wonderful welfare system. You'd think these "illegals " would be flocking here for the handouts. |  |
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| Genuine question for the Faragets. on 12:04 - Jan 5 with 754 views | leitrimblue |
| Genuine question for the Faragets. on 10:38 - Jan 5 by lowhouseblue |
you think people are expressing support for farage because of his policies? really? they like farage because he is a rejection of the status quo. he is the 'f!ck them all' candidate just like trump was. trump won because the democrats became toxic to a large swathe of middle class americans. the democrats were seen as elitist and out of touch. polling shows that the trump ad with the biggest impact was "harris is for they / them, trump is for you". if you're actually serious about the uk avoiding farage, rather than just posing on a message board, then you need to hope that starmer achieves growth and rising real wages, and much better public services. you also need him to engage with the voters' 'genuine concerns' (obviously some posters use that phrase as a smug insult, but ignoring people's concerns hasn't done much good so far). starmer needs to get net immigration down (the boats are a very small part of that). if we ever end up with farage it won't be because of his policies, it'll be because the political class has failed to listen to, and has belittled and rejected as thick and racist, a large swathe of working class voters. it'll because we failed to learn from the democrat car crash. |
I think yer pretty close on the reasons we could end up with that dopey public school boy/man of the people Farage.
The fact that Labour appears to have turned its back on the working class, ( old people's fuel payments etc) clearly leaves a vacuum for Farage or our Tommy to exploit.
By all means bring down immigration if you think that will help but its gonna take a lot more then that to convince working class voters to vote for Starmer again. |  | | |
| Genuine question for the Faragets. on 12:05 - Jan 5 with 749 views | leitrimblue |
| Genuine question for the Faragets. on 09:41 - Jan 5 by Zapers |
I guess you mean boats, but that would be a good start |
2 hours later and still not a single policy. Come on Zapers surely you can think of something.
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| Genuine question for the Faragets. on 12:07 - Jan 5 with 733 views | eireblue |
| Genuine question for the Faragets. on 11:27 - Jan 5 by lowhouseblue |
that wasn't an enquiry into grooming gangs. this is a specific scandal involving the abject failure of our police and social services to protect thousands of vulnerable working class kids from rape. it's not unreasonable to hold an enquiry into that specific scandal and to work out why the same failures occurred across multiple authorities and police forces. it feels an odd thing not to want answers to - and at a time of political division and mistrust a dangerous thing to appear defensive about. |
But that report did use the evidences from grooming gang enquires.
Purpose:
To consider the extent to which State and non-State institutions have failed in their duty of care to protect children from sexual abuse and exploitation; to consider the extent to which those failings have since been addressed; to identify further action needed to address any failings identified; to consider the steps which it is necessary for State and non-State institutions to take in order to protect children from such abuse in future; and to publish a report with recommendations.
The report is doing exactly what you want, work out why police and social services failed to protect vulnerable children.
It seems odd not to consider the recommendations of that report and make sure they are put in place, rather than spending another x years doing another inquiry covering the same material.
What’s important, making sure that the report that recommends protecting vulnerable children from all predators is implemented, or giving in to a foreigner and Farage making political capital about just some of the victims. | | | |
| Genuine question for the Faragets. on 12:09 - Jan 5 with 727 views | lowhouseblue |
| Genuine question for the Faragets. on 12:00 - Jan 5 by redrickstuhaart |
The need driven by what happened has already been met. Thats the point. The last government agreed and took the same view.
What questions do you believe answers are needed on, which have not been addressed by the other enquiries and cannot be addressed by an Oldham one? |
why did the exact same systematic failures by the police, cps and local authorities recur in multiple areas? we need to know independently of those bodies.
who within those public bodies is responsible for the failures and what action has been taken against them - how are they being held to account (individually and at the top of organisations) for these failures?
what needs to be put in place to ensure that vulnerable kids are not ignored and that prompt action is taken against perpetrators - why did our systems fail so badly?
do we need a national compensation scheme for kids who were so badly failed by our public bodies.
basically all the same questions any enquiry asks. it's then out in the open, there has been no cover up, trust in politics and institutions is improved, we avoid similar stuff happening again, and farage's fox is shot. do you object to enquiries into other major national scandals or it it just this one - and if it's just this one what exactly are you afraid of? | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Genuine question for the Faragets. on 12:09 - Jan 5 with 727 views | noggin |
| Genuine question for the Faragets. on 10:38 - Jan 5 by lowhouseblue |
you think people are expressing support for farage because of his policies? really? they like farage because he is a rejection of the status quo. he is the 'f!ck them all' candidate just like trump was. trump won because the democrats became toxic to a large swathe of middle class americans. the democrats were seen as elitist and out of touch. polling shows that the trump ad with the biggest impact was "harris is for they / them, trump is for you". if you're actually serious about the uk avoiding farage, rather than just posing on a message board, then you need to hope that starmer achieves growth and rising real wages, and much better public services. you also need him to engage with the voters' 'genuine concerns' (obviously some posters use that phrase as a smug insult, but ignoring people's concerns hasn't done much good so far). starmer needs to get net immigration down (the boats are a very small part of that). if we ever end up with farage it won't be because of his policies, it'll be because the political class has failed to listen to, and has belittled and rejected as thick and racist, a large swathe of working class voters. it'll because we failed to learn from the democrat car crash. |
"they like farage because he is a rejection of the status quo."
Wealthy man bullsh1ting the gullible public for his own gain. He is the status quo. | |
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| Genuine question for the Faragets. on 12:17 - Jan 5 with 676 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Genuine question for the Faragets. on 12:09 - Jan 5 by lowhouseblue |
why did the exact same systematic failures by the police, cps and local authorities recur in multiple areas? we need to know independently of those bodies.
who within those public bodies is responsible for the failures and what action has been taken against them - how are they being held to account (individually and at the top of organisations) for these failures?
what needs to be put in place to ensure that vulnerable kids are not ignored and that prompt action is taken against perpetrators - why did our systems fail so badly?
do we need a national compensation scheme for kids who were so badly failed by our public bodies.
basically all the same questions any enquiry asks. it's then out in the open, there has been no cover up, trust in politics and institutions is improved, we avoid similar stuff happening again, and farage's fox is shot. do you object to enquiries into other major national scandals or it it just this one - and if it's just this one what exactly are you afraid of? |
Have you read the reports? They deal with this and make recommendations!
The only public figures, involved in government, who are saying otherwise are Tommy Robinson, Elon Musk and people of similar mindset! | | | |
| Genuine question for the Faragets. on 12:17 - Jan 5 with 672 views | leitrimblue |
| Genuine question for the Faragets. on 12:09 - Jan 5 by noggin |
"they like farage because he is a rejection of the status quo."
Wealthy man bullsh1ting the gullible public for his own gain. He is the status quo. |
Exactly, just like Trump in the US he is the embodiment of the status quo but as managed to convince large swathes of a gullible public that he somehow represents them. | | | |
| Genuine question for the Faragets. on 12:25 - Jan 5 with 639 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Genuine question for the Faragets. on 12:17 - Jan 5 by leitrimblue |
Exactly, just like Trump in the US he is the embodiment of the status quo but as managed to convince large swathes of a gullible public that he somehow represents them. |
They are absolutely the status quo, coming from wealth and privilege and operating in certain demographics and sections of society.
They convince people they are not status quo by ignoring the usual form and approach of the political classes and riding roughshod over basic principles of integrity, accuracy, avoidance of obvious conflicts of interest etc. They make out that these are mechanisms protecting the poltical classes and they are "socking it to them" by doing so. In fact, they are also laying the ground to do what the hell they want and to normalise behaviour which, 20 years ago, would have led to unearable pressure to resign. [Post edited 5 Jan 12:28]
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| Genuine question for the Faragets. on 12:26 - Jan 5 with 635 views | eireblue |
| Genuine question for the Faragets. on 12:09 - Jan 5 by lowhouseblue |
why did the exact same systematic failures by the police, cps and local authorities recur in multiple areas? we need to know independently of those bodies.
who within those public bodies is responsible for the failures and what action has been taken against them - how are they being held to account (individually and at the top of organisations) for these failures?
what needs to be put in place to ensure that vulnerable kids are not ignored and that prompt action is taken against perpetrators - why did our systems fail so badly?
do we need a national compensation scheme for kids who were so badly failed by our public bodies.
basically all the same questions any enquiry asks. it's then out in the open, there has been no cover up, trust in politics and institutions is improved, we avoid similar stuff happening again, and farage's fox is shot. do you object to enquiries into other major national scandals or it it just this one - and if it's just this one what exactly are you afraid of? |
Maybe you should have look at the recommendations in the existing national report.
It does talk about national schemes for victims. | | | |
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