| Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? 16:00 - Jan 17 with 7140 views | ITFCSG |
It seems that outside of signing two players from Serie A on loan (one of which is English) we are seriously at a disadvantage when it comes to tapping on overseas talent. While the majority of clubs in the Prem and even some in the Champ stack their ranks with players signed from Europe, South and Central America and even Japan and Korea, we are mainly pursuing players from the home nations. This results in us unable to sign experienced players with top flight experience for the sheer premium placed on homegrown, British players vs their overseas counterparts + the fact that we aren't a "big" club.
MA and perhaps, McK's approach this season is hence a compromise - signing homegrown youth players with talent and potential like Delap, Philogene, Hutchinson, J Clarke etc. but as it can be seen they are still raw and at times lack the experience and maturity to be decent Prem players. Maybe they will in a couple of years' time and we can profit from them but what we need is experience NOW to plug and play, to grind out results and ensure survival.
Look at Villa signing Malen vs our signing of Philogene. Malen is cheaper, with more top flight and international experience and probably more suited to bang in the goals this season. Why isn't the recruitment squad looking at players like that?
Our experienced players are all Champ level at best and the new signings are mainly youth. Its like fielding a U21 team at times which leaves us outclassed and without the ability to change a game when needed.
Top priority (regardless of whether we survive or not) is to improve and broaden our scouting network. If McK can only work with "players who understand English or who have worked with an English-speaking coach" then he has to learn how to improve his cultural management skills. I'd rather have a player who is clueless about life in Britain and speaks poor English but knows where the net is or able to shut out Prem attackers than signing more homegrown players who are a work in progress for a significant premium. Depending on pure homegrown talent in 2025 is unrealistic and unfeasible. |  | | |  |
| Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 09:45 - Jan 18 with 1207 views | Kieran_Knows |
| Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 16:50 - Jan 17 by ITFCSG |
Let's use an example from last night then. Do you think Mitoma, when signed fresh from Kawasaki Frontale having played in Japan all his life is struggling to figure out how his team operates and what his manager wants? What about Moder? Enciso? Beleba? Minteh? Ayari? Are any of them imbued with British culture or speak fluent English?
I bet my bottom dollar none are. In fact, none of them have ever lived in the UK prior to signing for Brighton.
None of them are doing too badly either, are they?
Naive? |
Mitoma was a slightly different case considering Brighton signed him and then loaned him to their sister club in Belgium, Union SG to allow him time to get used to European football, and I would presume, learn English in that time as well.
Of course you make good points about the other players though. |  |
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| Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 09:50 - Jan 18 with 1164 views | MK1 |
I agree, but it will take a few years to get the scouting network correct. We can't just buy anyone just because they come from overseas. Brighton and alike are very good at it, but it would have taken years to build up contacts and trust amongst the scouting network. It is huge. Also, once you start looking at young talent abroad, you are up against every club, not just those in our price bracket. Real, Barca, PSG etc are all looking for that next big thing. It can be done, of course it can, but it takes a little while to get right. |  |
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| Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 09:52 - Jan 18 with 1159 views | algy |
| Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 09:39 - Jan 18 by Swansea_Blue |
100%. And the club have said that it’s an area they’re looking to develop. Homegrown served us well so far, so I wouldn’t want to be too critical of that approach. We’re probably seeing some limitations of that approach now aren’t we, but we’re also ahead of where we expected to be. Inevitability it will take a bit of time to overhaul our recruitment approach. Hopefully we can stay in this league while we develop off the field, but I’m sure we’ll still look to devp recruitment even if we’re relegated. Gamechanger are a million miles away from Evan’s lack of development. |
Given that recruiting from a wide pool of players is critical to having a competitive rather than just participating Premier League team, I was surprised to hear that we are only this season getting the set up to do that. Really surprised that Ashton hasn't got this sorted earlier, getting to this league earlier than they planned is no excuse. | |
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| Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 09:59 - Jan 18 with 1111 views | PhilTWTD |
| Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 09:52 - Jan 18 by algy |
Given that recruiting from a wide pool of players is critical to having a competitive rather than just participating Premier League team, I was surprised to hear that we are only this season getting the set up to do that. Really surprised that Ashton hasn't got this sorted earlier, getting to this league earlier than they planned is no excuse. |
I remember Roy Keane when he was here saying that Sir Alex reckoned it had taken five years to set up his scouting network at United. I'm guessing it probably takes less time these days, but the club was in League One less than two years ago. |  | | |
| Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 09:59 - Jan 18 with 1103 views | MK1 |
| Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 09:52 - Jan 18 by algy |
Given that recruiting from a wide pool of players is critical to having a competitive rather than just participating Premier League team, I was surprised to hear that we are only this season getting the set up to do that. Really surprised that Ashton hasn't got this sorted earlier, getting to this league earlier than they planned is no excuse. |
"getting to this league earlier than they planned is no excuse"?
It is though. You can't just pop over to Japan, say hi, I'm from Ipswich and I want to sign your play. It ain't as simple as that. Scouting networks take years to build and a good relationship with agents is important. It will take a while, but we will get there and the longer we stay in the PL, the more you will see overseas recruitment by us. Patience is the key here. | |
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| Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 10:00 - Jan 18 with 1095 views | MK1 |
| Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 09:59 - Jan 18 by PhilTWTD |
I remember Roy Keane when he was here saying that Sir Alex reckoned it had taken five years to set up his scouting network at United. I'm guessing it probably takes less time these days, but the club was in League One less than two years ago. |
Thank you Phil. Some just think it can happen yesterday. | |
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| Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 10:03 - Jan 18 with 1082 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 09:52 - Jan 18 by algy |
Given that recruiting from a wide pool of players is critical to having a competitive rather than just participating Premier League team, I was surprised to hear that we are only this season getting the set up to do that. Really surprised that Ashton hasn't got this sorted earlier, getting to this league earlier than they planned is no excuse. |
I find it hard to be critical. We all know how hard everyone’s been working and how much has already gone on behind the scenes to get to this point. We’ve already put new roles recruitment leads in on the senior side and in the academy, so it’s not as if we haven’t done anything. |  |
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| Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 10:08 - Jan 18 with 1074 views | algy |
| Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 09:59 - Jan 18 by MK1 |
"getting to this league earlier than they planned is no excuse"?
It is though. You can't just pop over to Japan, say hi, I'm from Ipswich and I want to sign your play. It ain't as simple as that. Scouting networks take years to build and a good relationship with agents is important. It will take a while, but we will get there and the longer we stay in the PL, the more you will see overseas recruitment by us. Patience is the key here. |
The point is that they have only just started taking overseas recruitment seriously. They've openly had ambition to get to the PL since they took over and should have known how important recruitment is and be preparing from once we got promoted from L1 at least. | |
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| Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 10:10 - Jan 18 with 1061 views | algy |
| Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 10:00 - Jan 18 by MK1 |
Thank you Phil. Some just think it can happen yesterday. |
But the earlier you start the better. | |
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| Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 10:20 - Jan 18 with 1030 views | MK1 |
| Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 10:08 - Jan 18 by algy |
The point is that they have only just started taking overseas recruitment seriously. They've openly had ambition to get to the PL since they took over and should have known how important recruitment is and be preparing from once we got promoted from L1 at least. |
And where do you think all this money would have come from when we were in L1. How much does a scouting network cost? I would guess millions a year. We simply couldn't afford to chuck money at it 2 or 3 seasons ago. Patience is key. We will get there. | |
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| Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 10:21 - Jan 18 with 1025 views | SheffordBlue |
| Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 10:08 - Jan 18 by algy |
The point is that they have only just started taking overseas recruitment seriously. They've openly had ambition to get to the PL since they took over and should have known how important recruitment is and be preparing from once we got promoted from L1 at least. |
We only really built out our in-house UK scouting networking 2 years ago:
Adam Whiteside who is now our Head of Scouting joined the club in Jan 23 as and Ryan Durrant joined him a few month later. We've increased that by one this month.
Could they have built the recruitment team more quickly - possibly but like many aspects of the development of the club we seem to have wanted to make solid improvements in areas before then moving on and making further improvements. Just bringing in lots more people would have come with it's own risks I think. | |
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| Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 10:25 - Jan 18 with 1018 views | MK1 |
| Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 16:12 - Jan 17 by Illinoisblue |
That was not a great example but the general point is very valid. It’s 2025, do we have a European scouting network? |
There is no way Marcus Evans was going to pay a scouting network to live and work overseas. It must cost a small fortune to have the correct network in place. It can't just happen overnight. | |
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| Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 10:27 - Jan 18 with 1015 views | strikalite |
| Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 10:08 - Jan 18 by algy |
The point is that they have only just started taking overseas recruitment seriously. They've openly had ambition to get to the PL since they took over and should have known how important recruitment is and be preparing from once we got promoted from L1 at least. |
Yep 100% agree, you only have to look at the quality of Cajuste to see what you could potentially get for your money. |  | | |
| Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 10:29 - Jan 18 with 1008 views | algy |
| Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 10:20 - Jan 18 by MK1 |
And where do you think all this money would have come from when we were in L1. How much does a scouting network cost? I would guess millions a year. We simply couldn't afford to chuck money at it 2 or 3 seasons ago. Patience is key. We will get there. |
Our owners have invested tens of millions in the relatively short time they have been here, a relatively few million to get scouting going, with the potential millions good scouting can bring in profit returns from trading would be good investment for the pensioners of Arizona etc. Sooner or later they will want a return on their investment. They are not here for fun. | |
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| Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 10:30 - Jan 18 with 1000 views | MK1 |
| Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 17:23 - Jan 17 by MattinLondon |
But before signing for Brighton they would’ve been assessed in terms of personality and desire to move abroad. They wouldn’t have been signed simply due to their performances at their previous clubs.
All this forms part of a good scouting system, which of course, takes a while to put in place. |
They don't want to wait. They expect us to be top 4 next season. Champions League and PL the season after that. These kids have no patience these days. Instant success or move on is their mantra. | |
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| Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 10:39 - Jan 18 with 987 views | algy |
| Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 10:30 - Jan 18 by MK1 |
They don't want to wait. They expect us to be top 4 next season. Champions League and PL the season after that. These kids have no patience these days. Instant success or move on is their mantra. |
I just want us to be competitive against our contemporaries that make up the fodder in this league that the established elite dominate. I don't expect Europe! Although I'd bring back the Anglo-Italian Cup. I enjoyed that, apart from losing to Porto Vale. | |
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| Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 11:03 - Jan 18 with 957 views | algy |
| Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 10:25 - Jan 18 by MK1 |
There is no way Marcus Evans was going to pay a scouting network to live and work overseas. It must cost a small fortune to have the correct network in place. It can't just happen overnight. |
Overnight!
There's been over 1300 nights since Evans sold to Gamechanger! | |
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| Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 11:25 - Jan 18 with 917 views | bournemouthblue |
Too early to tell, it may have cost us more money but the resell premiums are probably better too
It's swings and roundabouts, I hope we have a succession plan for McKenna and are well geared to yo-yo should the worst happen [Post edited 18 Jan 11:32]
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| Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 14:34 - Jan 18 with 844 views | cressi |
| Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 17:20 - Jan 17 by bobbyramsey |
......and with a German manager. |
A German manager lol I guess there was a lot of Germans in South America Post 1945. | | | |
| Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 14:42 - Jan 18 with 825 views | ITFCBlues |
| Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 16:50 - Jan 17 by ITFCSG |
Let's use an example from last night then. Do you think Mitoma, when signed fresh from Kawasaki Frontale having played in Japan all his life is struggling to figure out how his team operates and what his manager wants? What about Moder? Enciso? Beleba? Minteh? Ayari? Are any of them imbued with British culture or speak fluent English?
I bet my bottom dollar none are. In fact, none of them have ever lived in the UK prior to signing for Brighton.
None of them are doing too badly either, are they?
Naive? |
Whilst you're right, it's far easier trickling in 1 or 2 of these players at a time than signing 6 or 7 at any one time. We had to sign a lot players in the summer to be semi competitive. It's just not an easy task. |  |
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| Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 14:48 - Jan 18 with 791 views | ReusersTown |
| Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 16:50 - Jan 17 by ITFCSG |
Let's use an example from last night then. Do you think Mitoma, when signed fresh from Kawasaki Frontale having played in Japan all his life is struggling to figure out how his team operates and what his manager wants? What about Moder? Enciso? Beleba? Minteh? Ayari? Are any of them imbued with British culture or speak fluent English?
I bet my bottom dollar none are. In fact, none of them have ever lived in the UK prior to signing for Brighton.
None of them are doing too badly either, are they?
Naive? |
But it is the dynamic KMac and Ashton have said that they are looking to maintain in the squad, and is very much part of the spirit and culture that has been built that has got us this far. The integration of those Brighton players is almost incomparable to the situation we find ourselves in, and would be a very difficult challenge, especially to achieve over a season/summer. | | | |
| Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 15:02 - Jan 18 with 762 views | algy |
| Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 14:48 - Jan 18 by ReusersTown |
But it is the dynamic KMac and Ashton have said that they are looking to maintain in the squad, and is very much part of the spirit and culture that has been built that has got us this far. The integration of those Brighton players is almost incomparable to the situation we find ourselves in, and would be a very difficult challenge, especially to achieve over a season/summer. |
Integrating players into a team/squad is part of good man management and should be expected from a super manager like ours but as is often said he's got little experience at this level and is still learning. | |
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| Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 15:16 - Jan 18 with 728 views | ibbleobble |
| Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 16:10 - Jan 17 by Zx1988 |
On what planet would we have the slightest chance of signing Malen? I don't get why people are so hung up on the fact that Villa got him for the same price as Philogene.
He's a seasoned international with 41 caps and 9 goals for the Netherlands, and has scored 30 in 94 playing for Champions League regulars Borussia Dortmund. Even if the fees are similar, you can bet your bottom dollar that he's on a significantly higher salary than Philogene. |
Mad isn’t it? How some people think we can match the draw of Champions League Villa who are a much bigger club than us is next level ridiculous and there have been a lot this week. | | | |
| Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 15:21 - Jan 18 with 700 views | Vic |
I’m sure you’re right in terms of not signing players fro the EU leagues, South America, etc. yes, without those we are at a disadvantage.
But such has been our rise from mid-table Lg 1 obscurity to the Prem the scouting department just hasn’t been able to keep up. That’s totally understandable in my book. We’ve come so far in so many ways so quickly that we cannot possibly develop every area of the club evenly. It’s pretty well accepted that no one at the club expected promotion last year so the scouting is just not in place.
If we’re in the same position in 2 years time then absolutely let’s start to question the home grown philosophy. |  |
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| Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 15:23 - Jan 18 with 694 views | pointofblue |
| Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 15:16 - Jan 18 by ibbleobble |
Mad isn’t it? How some people think we can match the draw of Champions League Villa who are a much bigger club than us is next level ridiculous and there have been a lot this week. |
I don't think it's down to the draw of the respective clubs and more that Villa can sign someone from abroad with Champions League experience for the same amount as an unproven, at this level, British youngster. Either one appears to be a bargain or one is over-priced. Perhaps a bit of both. Of course, if Philogene finds his feet we'll be the ones laughing in the end, as I imagine the ceiling of prospective profit in the future is higher for him. | |
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