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£10k fine for this on 10:41 - Feb 21 by Cafe_Newman
At the start of the thread you wondered whether the judge(s) were male or female after saying that you thought the sentence was light.
My first reaction was, "what are you insinuating?"
Perhaps you can tell me.
Either you’re trolling, or you have so few brain cells that my spending a month of Sundays trying (again) to explain to you wouldn’t be sufficient to get through.
Spent hours replying to you yesterday trying to explain, to no apparent effect. You appear to be out to simply waste my time.
£10k fine for this on 10:41 - Feb 21 by Cafe_Newman
At the start of the thread you wondered whether the judge(s) were male or female after saying that you thought the sentence was light.
My first reaction was, "what are you insinuating?"
Perhaps you can tell me.
Im not sure its really rocket science Newman.
I'm guessing she is suggesting ( without meaning to out words into Ryorrys mouth) that perhaps the experiences of women in these dynamics is very different to that of men?
It's not hard to belive
Perhaps you could spend a few hours contemplating whether the experiences of different sexes might have a impact on their views in these circumstances?
Perhaps talk to female family members, daughters, sisters, wife etc. I think they may be able to answer your question much better then myself
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£10k fine for this on 15:18 - Feb 21 with 1268 views
£10k fine for this on 14:15 - Feb 21 by leitrimblue
Im not sure its really rocket science Newman.
I'm guessing she is suggesting ( without meaning to out words into Ryorrys mouth) that perhaps the experiences of women in these dynamics is very different to that of men?
It's not hard to belive
Perhaps you could spend a few hours contemplating whether the experiences of different sexes might have a impact on their views in these circumstances?
Perhaps talk to female family members, daughters, sisters, wife etc. I think they may be able to answer your question much better then myself
There are plenty of abused and disaffected people in western society who blame the opposite sex for their plight. There are also many that don't. I think the way to move forward is not to get sucked into the battle of the sexes, racism, sectarian division route and champion what we have in common instead. Failure to do this will only bring on greater fragmentation of our society It's not rocket science, you're right. Ryorry was clearly suggesting that a male judge would be more likely to hand out a more lenient sentence. What would be a fair punishment for the idiot Rubiales in this instance? 2.5 years in prison as a prosecution lawyer supporting Jenni Hermoso was demanding? How much more for rape, paedophilia, murder? How much time for a pinched bum or a sexist comment? Would it be the same for either sex in both single sex and heterosexual relationships? We need to determine these things so people know where they stand in this rapidly changing and multi-cultural society My view is shaped by the women close to me in my life - my daughter, my wife and my sisters actually. My wife and daughter both speak good Spanish which means they also have information that is specific to this case.
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£10k fine for this (n/t) on 15:28 - Feb 21 with 1242 views
£10k fine for this on 15:18 - Feb 21 by Cafe_Newman
There are plenty of abused and disaffected people in western society who blame the opposite sex for their plight. There are also many that don't. I think the way to move forward is not to get sucked into the battle of the sexes, racism, sectarian division route and champion what we have in common instead. Failure to do this will only bring on greater fragmentation of our society It's not rocket science, you're right. Ryorry was clearly suggesting that a male judge would be more likely to hand out a more lenient sentence. What would be a fair punishment for the idiot Rubiales in this instance? 2.5 years in prison as a prosecution lawyer supporting Jenni Hermoso was demanding? How much more for rape, paedophilia, murder? How much time for a pinched bum or a sexist comment? Would it be the same for either sex in both single sex and heterosexual relationships? We need to determine these things so people know where they stand in this rapidly changing and multi-cultural society My view is shaped by the women close to me in my life - my daughter, my wife and my sisters actually. My wife and daughter both speak good Spanish which means they also have information that is specific to this case.
"There are plenty of abused and disaffected people in western society who blame the opposite sex for their plight. There are also many that don't. I think the way to move forward is not to get sucked into the battle of the sexes, racism, sectarian division route and champion what we have in common instead. Failure to do this will only bring on greater fragmentation of our society".
"My view is shaped by the women close to me in my life - my daughter, my wife and my sisters actually. My wife and daughter both speak good Spanish which means they also have information that is specific to this case."
£10k fine for this on 15:18 - Feb 21 by Cafe_Newman
There are plenty of abused and disaffected people in western society who blame the opposite sex for their plight. There are also many that don't. I think the way to move forward is not to get sucked into the battle of the sexes, racism, sectarian division route and champion what we have in common instead. Failure to do this will only bring on greater fragmentation of our society It's not rocket science, you're right. Ryorry was clearly suggesting that a male judge would be more likely to hand out a more lenient sentence. What would be a fair punishment for the idiot Rubiales in this instance? 2.5 years in prison as a prosecution lawyer supporting Jenni Hermoso was demanding? How much more for rape, paedophilia, murder? How much time for a pinched bum or a sexist comment? Would it be the same for either sex in both single sex and heterosexual relationships? We need to determine these things so people know where they stand in this rapidly changing and multi-cultural society My view is shaped by the women close to me in my life - my daughter, my wife and my sisters actually. My wife and daughter both speak good Spanish which means they also have information that is specific to this case.
Your view on this seems to assume that men and women are starting on an equal footing.
Failure to recognise the context of hundreds of years of a patriarchal society isn't "getting sucked in to a battle of the sexes", it's wholly relevant and worth giving a great deal of thought to
Forgive me if I've got that wrong, but that is how it is coming across
[Post edited 21 Feb 15:56]
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£10k fine for this on 15:58 - Feb 21 with 1169 views
Speculation on my part. But I certainly think it may be the case.
That really is god awful speculation to be honest. The time it took for her to feel the way she did is immaterial and it might be logical to you that because she didn’t come to her final conclusion immediately that she was likely influenced. That is in my view incorrect. For victims of sexual abuse it can take decades.
[Post edited 21 Feb 15:59]
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£10k fine for this (n/t) on 16:07 - Feb 21 with 1151 views
£10k fine for this (n/t) on 15:28 - Feb 21 by Ryorry
"There are plenty of abused and disaffected people in western society who blame the opposite sex for their plight. There are also many that don't. I think the way to move forward is not to get sucked into the battle of the sexes, racism, sectarian division route and champion what we have in common instead. Failure to do this will only bring on greater fragmentation of our society".
"My view is shaped by the women close to me in my life - my daughter, my wife and my sisters actually. My wife and daughter both speak good Spanish which means they also have information that is specific to this case."
Yet you still understand so little.
[Post edited 21 Feb 15:36]
To be fair Ryorry you give me very little opinion of your own. You refer me to the comments of other posters (men), or other posters answer on your behalf (also men). Then you claim you have spent hours explaining your opinion, but your clearest explanations are just hackneyed memes. You make clear insinuation that my views about women are antiquated at best, verging on the misogynous. All the while I have simply asked you questions and expressed views rooted in equality. You have intimated that you can't be bothered to explain your position further yet cut and paste my comments with forehead slapping emojis.
If you had genuinely spent 7 decades on the blunt end of male attitudes that frustrate so much, it's a) odd that you have found a haven on a male dominated football forum and b) not learnt how to get your message across more effectively or at least persist with patience in order to get your message across rather than tar we with cheap accusations and slap your head.
A review of the thread so far reveals that you have said next to nothing in response to my questions while I have condemned Luis Rubiales' actions from the very beginning.
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£10k fine for this on 16:16 - Feb 21 with 1125 views
"Given the nature of the heat of the moment world cup winning celebrations I firmly disagree with the term 'sexual aggression' ".
She herself has said it made her feel sick; and took away all her joy & euphoria at winning the WC - clearly moments at the pinnacle of any player's career that should become happy memories in later life,
You've made no attempt to understand or put yourself in the shoes of a female in that situation.
This is video footage from the team bus directly after the World Cup final
We see no evidence of Jenni Hermoso feeling sick, nor being stripped of " all her joy & euphoria at winning the WC - clearly moments at the pinnacle of any player's career that should become happy memories in later life"
Neither do we see her teammates doing anything other than laugh at the incident which had just happened as they shout "Beso, Beso" (kiss, kiss). We also see Rubiales telling the kirls to quieten down and stop embarrassing him.
Of course, not of this excuses his actions, but the real events, post match, were far from what you have reported them here on this site.
I can help you with the translation if you wish as the translated text on the video is useless.
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£10k fine for this on 16:17 - Feb 21 with 1119 views
£10k fine for this on 15:18 - Feb 21 by Cafe_Newman
There are plenty of abused and disaffected people in western society who blame the opposite sex for their plight. There are also many that don't. I think the way to move forward is not to get sucked into the battle of the sexes, racism, sectarian division route and champion what we have in common instead. Failure to do this will only bring on greater fragmentation of our society It's not rocket science, you're right. Ryorry was clearly suggesting that a male judge would be more likely to hand out a more lenient sentence. What would be a fair punishment for the idiot Rubiales in this instance? 2.5 years in prison as a prosecution lawyer supporting Jenni Hermoso was demanding? How much more for rape, paedophilia, murder? How much time for a pinched bum or a sexist comment? Would it be the same for either sex in both single sex and heterosexual relationships? We need to determine these things so people know where they stand in this rapidly changing and multi-cultural society My view is shaped by the women close to me in my life - my daughter, my wife and my sisters actually. My wife and daughter both speak good Spanish which means they also have information that is specific to this case.
Sorry, will try an take it 1 paragraph ar a time.
I may have misunderstood your first paragraph. But it does read a bit like your suggesting that women should ignore abuse and uncomfortable situations in the name of all getting on together. Hopefully I'm wrong
As for yer 2nd paragraph I already suggested earlier In this thread that i thought a community service type sentence would have possibly been a good call
Actually, my partner an daughter speak a bit of Spanish too. My partner as its her first language and by daughter as she is bilingual and as spoke Spanish since she could talk. They are alao both in regular contact with female family members in Spain ( my partners sister lectures on law in Madrid and as taken quiet a interest in the case so I would imagine they are aware of 'information that is specific to this case'
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£10k fine for this on 16:28 - Feb 21 with 1090 views
£10k fine for this on 15:56 - Feb 21 by NedPlimpton
Your view on this seems to assume that men and women are starting on an equal footing.
Failure to recognise the context of hundreds of years of a patriarchal society isn't "getting sucked in to a battle of the sexes", it's wholly relevant and worth giving a great deal of thought to
Forgive me if I've got that wrong, but that is how it is coming across
[Post edited 21 Feb 15:56]
Please explain what we should do to redress the imbalance resulting from centuries of patriarchy that currently exists in order to reach a point of equality that we all wish to see.
Do we have to dish out stricter penalties for men in order to redress this historical imbalance?
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£10k fine for this on 16:42 - Feb 21 with 1058 views
£10k fine for this on 16:17 - Feb 21 by leitrimblue
Sorry, will try an take it 1 paragraph ar a time.
I may have misunderstood your first paragraph. But it does read a bit like your suggesting that women should ignore abuse and uncomfortable situations in the name of all getting on together. Hopefully I'm wrong
As for yer 2nd paragraph I already suggested earlier In this thread that i thought a community service type sentence would have possibly been a good call
Actually, my partner an daughter speak a bit of Spanish too. My partner as its her first language and by daughter as she is bilingual and as spoke Spanish since she could talk. They are alao both in regular contact with female family members in Spain ( my partners sister lectures on law in Madrid and as taken quiet a interest in the case so I would imagine they are aware of 'information that is specific to this case'
"I may have misunderstood your first paragraph. But it does read a bit like your suggesting that women should ignore abuse and uncomfortable situations in the name of all getting on together. Hopefully I'm wrong."
You are wrong. All abuse towards women and men should be treated fairly, equally and proportionately. Please highlight the words I used which lead you to think otherwise.
"As for yer 2nd paragraph I already suggested earlier In this thread that i thought a community service type sentence would have possibly been a good call"
I think that would be a perfect sentence. I do not agree with Rubiales' defence lawyer (a woman) who wanted total acquittal, nor do I agree with Hermoso's lawyer (a man) who was wanting a prison sentence.
Finally, the only reason why I mentioned the Spanish language spoken in my family was to point out that the events in the immediate aftermath of Rubiales' actions are generally unknown to the global audience. You can see an example in the video on the team bus which I added in an earlier post. I would be interested to know what your wife thinks of it.
In short, to avoid further misunderstandings:
Rubiales is an idiot. Community service would have made the most effective sentence for his behaviour. I do not consider his sentence particularly lenient or generous, just inappropriate. I do not believe Jenni Hermoso's joy after winning the World Cup was particularly stained by the event based on her behaviour on the team bus and the behaviour of the rest of the team.
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£10k fine for this (n/t) on 16:48 - Feb 21 with 1037 views
£10k fine for this (n/t) on 16:07 - Feb 21 by Cafe_Newman
To be fair Ryorry you give me very little opinion of your own. You refer me to the comments of other posters (men), or other posters answer on your behalf (also men). Then you claim you have spent hours explaining your opinion, but your clearest explanations are just hackneyed memes. You make clear insinuation that my views about women are antiquated at best, verging on the misogynous. All the while I have simply asked you questions and expressed views rooted in equality. You have intimated that you can't be bothered to explain your position further yet cut and paste my comments with forehead slapping emojis.
If you had genuinely spent 7 decades on the blunt end of male attitudes that frustrate so much, it's a) odd that you have found a haven on a male dominated football forum and b) not learnt how to get your message across more effectively or at least persist with patience in order to get your message across rather than tar we with cheap accusations and slap your head.
A review of the thread so far reveals that you have said next to nothing in response to my questions while I have condemned Luis Rubiales' actions from the very beginning.
Kerr-iiist almighty ....
I have given you numerous wordy, verbal, explanatory/opinion-type replies, yet you ignore all those to focus on one yesterday afternoon that I already explained was when I was particularly short of time; and two this morning when it had become apparent (to me anyway) that you're a time-wasting troll/WUM.
"it's a) odd that you have found a haven on a male dominated football forum"
Well lord forbid that females who follow Town from their 20s to their 70s should choose the best fan-site for ITFC as one of the dozens of websites they read regularly, maybe I should go on Mumsnet instead
"and b) not learnt how to get your message across more effectively or at least persist with patience in order to get your message across rather than tar we with cheap accusations and slap your head.
When I first came to the thread, I was so shocked, angry and depressed by some of the responses (actually not yours at that point) that I did feel overwhelmed by those feelings & consequently unable to properly verbalise my reaction. Some mens' reactions have been like virtual reality incarnations of the whole males arrogantly drowning out, talking over, not caring, not listening to females thing that is the issue here.
However - I *have* patiently (until this post anyway!) replied to every question you've raised. You're the one coming out with false accusations. And far from being "cheap", the accusations I've made against you have actually been subsequently justified by your own words that have come out of your own mouth.
Thank heavens for the majority of guys on here who do get it, otherwise I'd probably have given up on this site years ago.* And iirc, both our main site Admins have said several times said they'd like more women on here.
*Actually, I'm gonna correct myself there. I'd probably have stubbornly continued in the hope of changing their attitudes if the majority had been the other way round
£10k fine for this (n/t) on 16:48 - Feb 21 by Ryorry
Kerr-iiist almighty ....
I have given you numerous wordy, verbal, explanatory/opinion-type replies, yet you ignore all those to focus on one yesterday afternoon that I already explained was when I was particularly short of time; and two this morning when it had become apparent (to me anyway) that you're a time-wasting troll/WUM.
"it's a) odd that you have found a haven on a male dominated football forum"
Well lord forbid that females who follow Town from their 20s to their 70s should choose the best fan-site for ITFC as one of the dozens of websites they read regularly, maybe I should go on Mumsnet instead
"and b) not learnt how to get your message across more effectively or at least persist with patience in order to get your message across rather than tar we with cheap accusations and slap your head.
When I first came to the thread, I was so shocked, angry and depressed by some of the responses (actually not yours at that point) that I did feel overwhelmed by those feelings & consequently unable to properly verbalise my reaction. Some mens' reactions have been like virtual reality incarnations of the whole males arrogantly drowning out, talking over, not caring, not listening to females thing that is the issue here.
However - I *have* patiently (until this post anyway!) replied to every question you've raised. You're the one coming out with false accusations. And far from being "cheap", the accusations I've made against you have actually been subsequently justified by your own words that have come out of your own mouth.
Thank heavens for the majority of guys on here who do get it, otherwise I'd probably have given up on this site years ago.* And iirc, both our main site Admins have said several times said they'd like more women on here.
*Actually, I'm gonna correct myself there. I'd probably have stubbornly continued in the hope of changing their attitudes if the majority had been the other way round
[Post edited 21 Feb 20:01]
Be patient with me Ryorry but I still don't know what it was about my question on page one of this thread that caused you to downvote it.
Please don't refer me to another poster's comments. You downvoted it and you have said in the past that you dislike downvoting without explanation. Please don't say that if I haven't understood it by now, I never will. Please don't ask me to reread it. Please don't prescribe a sort of community service where I spend more time surrounded by women until I agree with whatever opinion you hold towards my views that I am supposed to get. Please be patient and engage fairly with me. Please comment on the video I have uploaded and tell me if you think Hermoso really had all the joy stripped from what should have been one of the best days of her life.
Please.
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£10k fine for this on 17:26 - Feb 21 with 926 views
£10k fine for this on 16:16 - Feb 21 by Cafe_Newman
This is video footage from the team bus directly after the World Cup final
We see no evidence of Jenni Hermoso feeling sick, nor being stripped of " all her joy & euphoria at winning the WC - clearly moments at the pinnacle of any player's career that should become happy memories in later life"
Neither do we see her teammates doing anything other than laugh at the incident which had just happened as they shout "Beso, Beso" (kiss, kiss). We also see Rubiales telling the kirls to quieten down and stop embarrassing him.
Of course, not of this excuses his actions, but the real events, post match, were far from what you have reported them here on this site.
I can help you with the translation if you wish as the translated text on the video is useless.
Are you arguing that just because she wasn’t demonstrably upset that she wasn’t upset because if so you haven’t really got a grip on how these things work.
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£10k fine for this on 17:39 - Feb 21 with 876 views
Are you arguing that just because she wasn’t demonstrably upset that she wasn’t upset because if so you haven’t really got a grip on how these things work.
No, I am not saying that at all. I am pointing out that she and her team mates are enjoying a post championship winning moment together on the team bus. No one holds any animosity towards Rubiales, who admits he is embarrassed by the girls laughing at his actions.
None of that excuses his actions.
Neither do I doubt Hermoso's disgust at what actually transpired, but what is interesting to me, and what makes this a very special and high profile case, is that I think Jenni's embarrassment may have been hightened by the fact that pictures of the incident went viral soon after the event. That must have been awful for her... and also, as it transpires, for him.
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£10k fine for this on 19:18 - Feb 21 with 791 views
£10k fine for this on 16:16 - Feb 21 by Cafe_Newman
This is video footage from the team bus directly after the World Cup final
We see no evidence of Jenni Hermoso feeling sick, nor being stripped of " all her joy & euphoria at winning the WC - clearly moments at the pinnacle of any player's career that should become happy memories in later life"
Neither do we see her teammates doing anything other than laugh at the incident which had just happened as they shout "Beso, Beso" (kiss, kiss). We also see Rubiales telling the kirls to quieten down and stop embarrassing him.
Of course, not of this excuses his actions, but the real events, post match, were far from what you have reported them here on this site.
I can help you with the translation if you wish as the translated text on the video is useless.
I didn't want to get drawn in to this.topic. But this I need to talk about.
Speaking from a woman's perspective, and as one who has experienced inappropriate sexual behaviour directed at me several times in my nearly 50 years, I'm not sure I know how to explain this to a man in a way that it will resonate. That's not necessarily your fault. I will try though, because if we don't say what's not right to us, we won't ever be fully heard and understood.
If you are a man, you can't fully understand what it's like to feel vulnerable and unable to react in the moment when any particular man does something that you don't want them to do. Sure, you can be a kind, considerate man who thinks of his female loved ones and tries to imagine what it's like, but you won't truly know. You just cant.
I had a stalker in my 20s. I'm 5'7 and he was the same height and quite skinny, but I knew full well that he could physically overpower me any time he wanted, and there was nothing I could do to stop him. Thankfully, he never did assault me, but I lived with that fear every day of the ordeal.
Even in less intense scenarios, as a woman, you often can't or won't call out inappropriate behaviour, because the perpetrator is always physically stronger (and in Jenny's case) more influential and powerful than you.
Most sex crime is motivated by power and control, not sexual arousal. Herein lies the issue. Rubiales used his position of power (maybe in the heat of the moment) to make a woman do something she would not have consented to.
What would I do in this situation? I honestly don't know, but given the fact that millions of people across the globe have seen your big boss kiss you full on the lips, and the entire nation of Spain are celebrating, I'm guessing you go along with the celebrations, even if some are poking fun at the extremely awkward situation you just had inflicted on you. You're hardly going to sit in the corner and ruin the party. It was a horrible position for her to be in, and one that countless many women across generational, national and cultural boundaries will identify with.
[Post edited 21 Feb 20:23]
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£10k fine for this on 19:55 - Feb 21 with 745 views
I didn't want to get drawn in to this.topic. But this I need to talk about.
Speaking from a woman's perspective, and as one who has experienced inappropriate sexual behaviour directed at me several times in my nearly 50 years, I'm not sure I know how to explain this to a man in a way that it will resonate. That's not necessarily your fault. I will try though, because if we don't say what's not right to us, we won't ever be fully heard and understood.
If you are a man, you can't fully understand what it's like to feel vulnerable and unable to react in the moment when any particular man does something that you don't want them to do. Sure, you can be a kind, considerate man who thinks of his female loved ones and tries to imagine what it's like, but you won't truly know. You just cant.
I had a stalker in my 20s. I'm 5'7 and he was the same height and quite skinny, but I knew full well that he could physically overpower me any time he wanted, and there was nothing I could do to stop him. Thankfully, he never did assault me, but I lived with that fear every day of the ordeal.
Even in less intense scenarios, as a woman, you often can't or won't call out inappropriate behaviour, because the perpetrator is always physically stronger (and in Jenny's case) more influential and powerful than you.
Most sex crime is motivated by power and control, not sexual arousal. Herein lies the issue. Rubiales used his position of power (maybe in the heat of the moment) to make a woman do something she would not have consented to.
What would I do in this situation? I honestly don't know, but given the fact that millions of people across the globe have seen your big boss kiss you full on the lips, and the entire nation of Spain are celebrating, I'm guessing you go along with the celebrations, even if some are poking fun at the extremely awkward situation you just had inflicted on you. You're hardly going to sit in the corner and ruin the party. It was a horrible position for her to be in, and one that countless many women across generational, national and cultural boundaries will identify with.
[Post edited 21 Feb 20:23]
Well said.
I'm afraid the shock, anger and depression I felt from some of the responses on the thread are still swamping my ability to articulate everything I'm feeling and thinking about the topic as well as I'd like. Some females I see speaking in public like yourself do it extremely well on behalf of us; but I suspect for every one of you, there are several more like me who don't feel up to it, perhaps even more who just stay silent as I did about an experience I had in my 20s until I mentioned it for the first time in a similar discussion on here a few months ago.
It doesn't help when some on here then double down & just ride roughshod over what's been said. I wouldn't dream of disagreeing with a young man in an inner-city who's living in fear of knife-crime, e.g., because I wouldn't have had any of his experiences so it'd be literally ignorant, as well as thoroughly arrogant of me to ignore, gloss over or dispute his experiences of living in the culture he's in.
I'm afraid the shock, anger and depression I felt from some of the responses on the thread are still swamping my ability to articulate everything I'm feeling and thinking about the topic as well as I'd like. Some females I see speaking in public like yourself do it extremely well on behalf of us; but I suspect for every one of you, there are several more like me who don't feel up to it, perhaps even more who just stay silent as I did about an experience I had in my 20s until I mentioned it for the first time in a similar discussion on here a few months ago.
It doesn't help when some on here then double down & just ride roughshod over what's been said. I wouldn't dream of disagreeing with a young man in an inner-city who's living in fear of knife-crime, e.g., because I wouldn't have had any of his experiences so it'd be literally ignorant, as well as thoroughly arrogant of me to ignore, gloss over or dispute his experiences of living in the culture he's in.
Not just doubling down but going further and suggesting that Hermoso was lying, pressured and even though Rubiales' actions were not consensual that somehow doesn't equate to sexual aggression. That's ignoring a couple of sniggering kids.
Both Rubiales and Hermoso are contesting the ruling so this has still got legs. Hopefully sense prevails and the coercion is also taken into account and we see a more realistic outcome.
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£10k fine for this on 20:35 - Feb 21 with 663 views
Not just doubling down but going further and suggesting that Hermoso was lying, pressured and even though Rubiales' actions were not consensual that somehow doesn't equate to sexual aggression. That's ignoring a couple of sniggering kids.
Both Rubiales and Hermoso are contesting the ruling so this has still got legs. Hopefully sense prevails and the coercion is also taken into account and we see a more realistic outcome.
Interestingly you raise that "sexual aggression" phrase, which I think isn't actually a helpful description in this instance. My reason for saying that is that the definition of 'aggression' denotes violence, which Rubiales clearly didn't use, whereas the more accurate description is '"sexual abuse", however offensive that description might be for those who want to minimise or sanitise the issue.
Rubiales abused his position both as a boss and as a man, to act inappropriately towards a woman under his power in a sexual way. End of.
[Post edited 21 Feb 20:37]
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£10k fine for this on 20:38 - Feb 21 with 650 views
Interestingly you raise that "sexual aggression" phrase, which I think isn't actually a helpful description in this instance. My reason for saying that is that the definition of 'aggression' denotes violence, which Rubiales clearly didn't use, whereas the more accurate description is '"sexual abuse", however offensive that description might be for those who want to minimise or sanitise the issue.
Rubiales abused his position both as a boss and as a man, to act inappropriately towards a woman under his power in a sexual way. End of.
[Post edited 21 Feb 20:37]
It's what he is accused of, or at least the translation for what is being used in court and in the media here.
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£10k fine for this on 20:43 - Feb 21 with 632 views
It's what he is accused of, or at least the translation for what is being used in court and in the media here.
Yes. I wasn't criticising your use of the term, for clarity.
Sometimes legal terms are not always helpful in allowing the layperson to get what is going on.
An example of this: if, in the UK, a person exposes themself to members of the public, then that is classed as 'outraging public decency'. There is no mention in the legal charges of the fact that the crime was sexual in nature. It is a minor crime, and often carries no custodial sentence. Fair enough. Not here to debate that one. However, it doesn't give the person on the street a good context in which to form anopinion. Just an example of what I'm trying to convey. 😊
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