| What I can't figure out is.... on 13:51 - Mar 19 with 2345 views | mellowblue |
| What I can't figure out is.... on 10:44 - Mar 19 by itfcjoe |
But if 1 in 4 young people have thought about leaving the workforce in the last 12 months for mostly mental health reasons, then how could any mental health service deal with that? |
Something wrong somewhere. Personally I think young people lack the ability to cope in the real world, maybe education and upbringing is too soft now. Maybe the drudge of work is at odds with their life expectations. Their coping mechanisms aren't what they should be. Even today I read thet GCSEs are goung to be downgraded because of the stress of exams. yet it is usually negative experiences and overcoming them that toughens people up and gives them durability. It is an overprotective society now compared to my upbringing decades ago. |  | |  |
| What I can't figure out is.... on 14:10 - Mar 19 with 2310 views | J2BLUE |
| What I can't figure out is.... on 13:51 - Mar 19 by lowhouseblue |
what you say about housing feels to me to be the distinctive thing about the current situation. relative to 15 years ago the % of under 35s who are home owners has fallen by a third. overall home ownership has fallen much less. but both figures are still high relative to the 1970s and before. comparing under 35s to their parents, home ownership at that age is now less likely - comparing them to their grandparents it's about the same. but equally important is the big decline in access to social renting.
but beyond housing much of what you say about work has always been true. for a significant number (may be a majority) work has always been about paying the bills rather than self-fulfilment or self-realisation or enjoyment anything positive like that. it has always for many been a hamster wheel and a case of getting to the end of the week. if anything with the decline of assembly line work, heavy manufacturing, etc the work environment has improved and some of the most de-humanising work has gone. so why are more people today seemingly much more likely to say 'no' to that compared to the past? and is it right that the state / welfare system gives them the choice of saying 'no'? someone has to do the crap jobs - we all consume those goods and services and use retain etc - and particularly when they are relatively young and haven't yet been able to progress beyond them? it has always throughout history, for most people, been an absolute luxury to work because they enjoy it. |
That is a fair point. Perhaps social media is largely to blame with comparison being the thief of joy etc.
I don't think it's right for the the state to give people the choice but I think they need to fix it before making sweeping cuts. Governments keep talking about making work pay but they have frozen the tax allowance for several years. There are things the government could do to fund tax deductions for the lowest paid and to increase the tax free allowance.
Perhaps even the government could even cut tax on overtime in exchange for topping up a pension with a bit more. 28p in the pound taxes on income over the threshold. Maybe they should set it at 10p and 8p into your pension pot. Let people get ahead without scraping by. |  |
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| What I can't figure out is.... on 14:28 - Mar 19 with 2272 views | Ryorry |
| What I can't figure out is.... on 13:51 - Mar 19 by mellowblue |
Something wrong somewhere. Personally I think young people lack the ability to cope in the real world, maybe education and upbringing is too soft now. Maybe the drudge of work is at odds with their life expectations. Their coping mechanisms aren't what they should be. Even today I read thet GCSEs are goung to be downgraded because of the stress of exams. yet it is usually negative experiences and overcoming them that toughens people up and gives them durability. It is an overprotective society now compared to my upbringing decades ago. |
My upbringing was also decades ago; today's youngsters' problems are (mostly) nothing like they were for us back then. |  |
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| What I can't figure out is.... on 14:36 - Mar 19 with 2260 views | lowhouseblue |
| What I can't figure out is.... on 14:10 - Mar 19 by J2BLUE |
That is a fair point. Perhaps social media is largely to blame with comparison being the thief of joy etc.
I don't think it's right for the the state to give people the choice but I think they need to fix it before making sweeping cuts. Governments keep talking about making work pay but they have frozen the tax allowance for several years. There are things the government could do to fund tax deductions for the lowest paid and to increase the tax free allowance.
Perhaps even the government could even cut tax on overtime in exchange for topping up a pension with a bit more. 28p in the pound taxes on income over the threshold. Maybe they should set it at 10p and 8p into your pension pot. Let people get ahead without scraping by. |
the other side of this is that real wages in the uk are now the highest they have ever been in history. they were growing up to 2009, dropped and then stagnated after the crash, and have been growing again since 2015. that doesn't resolve the issue with housing, and taking the whole period from 2000 the total increase is now only 24%, but previous generations still earned considerably less in real terms. if you joined the labour market 10 years ago average real wages have risen by 11% in that time. [average weekly wage in constant 2015 prices: jan 2000 = £424; jan 2008 = £521; jan 2014 = £472; dec 2024 = £526} |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| What I can't figure out is.... on 15:17 - Mar 19 with 2183 views | itfcjoe |
| What I can't figure out is.... on 13:16 - Mar 19 by J2BLUE |
This is the society we have created.
For the young there are a lack of opportunities, most jobs are low paid and based on retail or customer service and at the end of the month when they get their salary it's barely enough to live on. House prices are going up faster than they can save a deposit. Many are told they cannot afford a mortgage while paying more in rent than a mortgage would cost.
It's not really surprising that when people get on benefits they don't want to come off and return to what is quite a miserable existence for many. Just to be clear, I am trying to say I sympathise with them and feel empathy rather than suggesting people are lazy scroungers. I do not think the vast majority of people are but they need hope. They need to know working isn't just a hamster wheel where you never get anywhere and barely survive because if you get the basics covered why bother running on the wheel for no gain? Not to mention the costs saved from not travelling to work and the freedom of not being tied to a company for 40 hours a week.
There are plenty of videos on Youtube of people just saying no more to that sort of life and quitting. They want some hope, something to build towards and the ability to make life comfortable with hard work.
It's demoralising being low paid knowing the company is owned by shareholders or billionaires. I remember working for Travelex earning absolute peanuts while the company (majority share) was bought by a billionaire.
I have worked in crap low paid jobs having to commute each day and having to force myself to walk through the door each day. It's horrible. I now work 32 hours a week from my home office earning more than i've earnt before. I hated working for Travelex. I wonder if I would be on benefits right now if I had still been there when the pandemic started because after being furloughed I don't think I would have ever gone back. In fact, when I left Travelex, I quit with no job to go to. I had reached my limit. If people are in the same boat and struggling to get by I can see why people are anxious and depressed. We need to change things. Increase the tax free allowance and fund it with a wealth tax. There are ways to fix this without the witch hunt.
I realise much of the above is a response to points you didn't actually make so not targeted at you. Just general musings. |
Has it not always been thus though? A lot of people have menial jobs, poorly paid, that just give them enough to get by.
I guess it's what you've noted later out there, that there is a lot more info out there about what other people are doing for money and they see influencers, peoples side hustles, youtubers, and think that through social media that their lives are better and are not happy.
Sadly there is never going to be millions of fulfilling well paid jobs out there for people that will allow everyone to live the life they aspire to.....but effectively opting out of the market because of this and how that makes you feel can't be a solution - sometimes you've just got to grin and bear it and push through. From reading your post, that is what you had to do to get to where you are now |  |
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| What I can't figure out is.... on 17:24 - Mar 19 with 2087 views | Swansea_Blue |
| What I can't figure out is.... on 10:06 - Mar 19 by itfcjoe |
Wherever you set the limit it is about balancing the amount of people who falsely claim, versus those who will now no longer be able to get what they need. Labour must know that there will now be some egregious examples of people not getting what they need over the next few months but must presume it will be worth it.
Ultimately though there is a major issue with more and more disability or ling term sick claimants going up massively since the pandemic especially amongst the young. There must be lots of factors to it - but it can't continue as it is both for long term size of the benefits bill and young people never being able to work because that is a doomed existence.
By cutting out of work benefits but not disability/sickness benefits it seems people have just migrated across to the more generous side of things - but taxpayers can't afford to see young people not working forever, it's just not fair in general. |
The issue with cutting the budget is that that in itself does nothing to address why the number of claimants have gone up since the pandemic. Unless they address the underlying physical and mental health issues, they’re just setting up a fall for genuinely ill people. It’s all a bit cart before the horse for my liking. They need a plan that cuts across all relevant areas (health, education & training, back to work schemes/apprenticeships and social security which is just a part). |  |
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| What I can't figure out is.... on 17:42 - Mar 19 with 2057 views | Ryorry |
| What I can't figure out is.... on 17:24 - Mar 19 by Swansea_Blue |
The issue with cutting the budget is that that in itself does nothing to address why the number of claimants have gone up since the pandemic. Unless they address the underlying physical and mental health issues, they’re just setting up a fall for genuinely ill people. It’s all a bit cart before the horse for my liking. They need a plan that cuts across all relevant areas (health, education & training, back to work schemes/apprenticeships and social security which is just a part). |
Isn't it ridiculous that us asking for logical, obvious, sensible, coherently joined up thinking from our Governments feels like we're asking for the moon on a stick  | |
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| What I can't figure out is.... on 17:49 - Mar 19 with 2034 views | DJR |
Not much sympathy on here for children and young people but 'twas always the case.
And surprising that I haven't seen on here or elsewhere Covid mentioned as a factor. I might add that my son (in sixth form) and daughter (at university) suffered isolation in their formative years that no previous generation has suffered.
https://www.childrenscommissioner.gov.uk/news/damage-to-childrens-mental-health-
Damage to children’s mental health caused by Covid crisis could last for years without a large-scale increase for children’s mental health services
https://www.kcl.ac.uk/an-isolated-generation-the-impact-of-covid-19-on-children-
Since children and adolescents were considered a low health risk, they were far from a priority in the early stages of the pandemic. But with the disruption to schools, prolonged social isolation, health anxiety, and economic instability, the COVID-19 pandemic has exposed young people to many known risk factors for mental illness, raising serious concerns about their wellbeing.
Over the last two years, research about the psychological impact of COVID-19 on children and young people has been emerging. Before the pandemic, England’s Mental Health of Children and Young People (MHCYP) survey found that one in nine children and young people were affected by a mental health condition. By October 2020, eight months since the virus first reached the UK, this figure had risen to one in six children. At this point, young people were reporting high levels of loneliness, disrupted sleep, and anxiety about leaving the house due to fear of catching or spreading the virus. [Post edited 19 Mar 18:06]
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| What I can't figure out is.... on 17:53 - Mar 19 with 2001 views | Ryorry |
| What I can't figure out is.... on 17:49 - Mar 19 by DJR |
Not much sympathy on here for children and young people but 'twas always the case.
And surprising that I haven't seen on here or elsewhere Covid mentioned as a factor. I might add that my son (in sixth form) and daughter (at university) suffered isolation in their formative years that no previous generation has suffered.
https://www.childrenscommissioner.gov.uk/news/damage-to-childrens-mental-health-
Damage to children’s mental health caused by Covid crisis could last for years without a large-scale increase for children’s mental health services
https://www.kcl.ac.uk/an-isolated-generation-the-impact-of-covid-19-on-children-
Since children and adolescents were considered a low health risk, they were far from a priority in the early stages of the pandemic. But with the disruption to schools, prolonged social isolation, health anxiety, and economic instability, the COVID-19 pandemic has exposed young people to many known risk factors for mental illness, raising serious concerns about their wellbeing.
Over the last two years, research about the psychological impact of COVID-19 on children and young people has been emerging. Before the pandemic, England’s Mental Health of Children and Young People (MHCYP) survey found that one in nine children and young people were affected by a mental health condition. By October 2020, eight months since the virus first reached the UK, this figure had risen to one in six children. At this point, young people were reporting high levels of loneliness, disrupted sleep, and anxiety about leaving the house due to fear of catching or spreading the virus. [Post edited 19 Mar 18:06]
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"And surprising that I haven't seen on here or elsewhere Covid mentioned as a factor"
Ahem - last para -
What I can't figure out is.... by Ryorry 19 Mar 13:28Labour’s moves here are incredibly short-sighted and compartmentalised.
Depriving people of PIP so that, eg, they aggravate their health problems by DIYing instead of being able to pay for a carer to do the job, will simply end up as an increased burden on the NHS. Eg someone with spinal disability and arthritis having to put their own socks on, resulting in more disc trouble and NHS visits/operation.
Taking easily implemented measures v Covid and other viruses, like masking up and better ventilation in NHS buildings, would also help hugely. Long Covid is very much a thing, unfortunately.
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| What I can't figure out is.... on 18:06 - Mar 19 with 1962 views | lowhouseblue |
| What I can't figure out is.... on 17:49 - Mar 19 by DJR |
Not much sympathy on here for children and young people but 'twas always the case.
And surprising that I haven't seen on here or elsewhere Covid mentioned as a factor. I might add that my son (in sixth form) and daughter (at university) suffered isolation in their formative years that no previous generation has suffered.
https://www.childrenscommissioner.gov.uk/news/damage-to-childrens-mental-health-
Damage to children’s mental health caused by Covid crisis could last for years without a large-scale increase for children’s mental health services
https://www.kcl.ac.uk/an-isolated-generation-the-impact-of-covid-19-on-children-
Since children and adolescents were considered a low health risk, they were far from a priority in the early stages of the pandemic. But with the disruption to schools, prolonged social isolation, health anxiety, and economic instability, the COVID-19 pandemic has exposed young people to many known risk factors for mental illness, raising serious concerns about their wellbeing.
Over the last two years, research about the psychological impact of COVID-19 on children and young people has been emerging. Before the pandemic, England’s Mental Health of Children and Young People (MHCYP) survey found that one in nine children and young people were affected by a mental health condition. By October 2020, eight months since the virus first reached the UK, this figure had risen to one in six children. At this point, young people were reporting high levels of loneliness, disrupted sleep, and anxiety about leaving the house due to fear of catching or spreading the virus. [Post edited 19 Mar 18:06]
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"I might add that my son (in sixth form) and daughter (at university) suffered isolation in their formative years that no previous generation has suffered."
well i think the kids who were sent away from their families and communities to places far from home as evacuees to live with people they'd never met while their families were bombed might have a claim to greater isolation and suffering. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| What I can't figure out is.... on 18:07 - Mar 19 with 1949 views | DJR |
| What I can't figure out is.... on 17:53 - Mar 19 by Ryorry |
"And surprising that I haven't seen on here or elsewhere Covid mentioned as a factor"
Ahem - last para -
What I can't figure out is.... by Ryorry 19 Mar 13:28Labour’s moves here are incredibly short-sighted and compartmentalised.
Depriving people of PIP so that, eg, they aggravate their health problems by DIYing instead of being able to pay for a carer to do the job, will simply end up as an increased burden on the NHS. Eg someone with spinal disability and arthritis having to put their own socks on, resulting in more disc trouble and NHS visits/operation.
Taking easily implemented measures v Covid and other viruses, like masking up and better ventilation in NHS buildings, would also help hugely. Long Covid is very much a thing, unfortunately.
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I meant the effect of Covid in relation to children and young people, and a related rise in things like anxiety, bad behaviour and school absence.
But of course, Covid impacts other age groups too, and I totally agree with what you posted. [Post edited 19 Mar 18:16]
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| What I can't figure out is.... on 18:59 - Mar 19 with 1839 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| What I can't figure out is.... on 14:28 - Mar 19 by Ryorry |
My upbringing was also decades ago; today's youngsters' problems are (mostly) nothing like they were for us back then. |
Are you suggesting that your generation had it harder or that the issues dealt with are different. |  |
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| What I can't figure out is.... on 19:00 - Mar 19 with 1850 views | PhilTWTD |
| What I can't figure out is.... on 18:06 - Mar 19 by lowhouseblue |
"I might add that my son (in sixth form) and daughter (at university) suffered isolation in their formative years that no previous generation has suffered."
well i think the kids who were sent away from their families and communities to places far from home as evacuees to live with people they'd never met while their families were bombed might have a claim to greater isolation and suffering. |
A little different, they were able to go out and play and go to school even if they were living away from their parents. |  | | |
| What I can't figure out is.... on 19:12 - Mar 19 with 1792 views | lowhouseblue |
| What I can't figure out is.... on 19:00 - Mar 19 by PhilTWTD |
A little different, they were able to go out and play and go to school even if they were living away from their parents. |
really? which would you pick at the age of, say, 9 - staying at home with just your family and having a few months when your main regular contact beyond that is online, or leaving your family, moving across the country when you'd probably not been outside your locality before, living with people you'd never met and who would have been socially alien to you, and your only contact with family for a year plus being by letter and an occasional visit? i guess in both scenarios different people had different experiences, but i'm not sure lockdown was necessarily more challenging that evacuation. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Codswallop. (n/t) on 19:21 - Mar 19 with 1751 views | Bloots |
| What I can't figure out is.... on 19:00 - Mar 19 by PhilTWTD |
A little different, they were able to go out and play and go to school even if they were living away from their parents. |
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| "The sooner he comes back the better, this place has been a disaster without him" - TWTD User (July 2025) |
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| What I can't figure out is.... on 19:43 - Mar 19 with 1708 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| What I can't figure out is.... on 19:12 - Mar 19 by lowhouseblue |
really? which would you pick at the age of, say, 9 - staying at home with just your family and having a few months when your main regular contact beyond that is online, or leaving your family, moving across the country when you'd probably not been outside your locality before, living with people you'd never met and who would have been socially alien to you, and your only contact with family for a year plus being by letter and an occasional visit? i guess in both scenarios different people had different experiences, but i'm not sure lockdown was necessarily more challenging that evacuation. |
Are we really playing mental suffering top trumps here. Apples and oranges come to mind. I wouldn't trade being a teenager in the 80's for being one now for all the tea in China fwiw. | |
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| What I can't figure out is.... on 19:43 - Mar 19 with 1704 views | Ryorry |
| What I can't figure out is.... on 18:07 - Mar 19 by DJR |
I meant the effect of Covid in relation to children and young people, and a related rise in things like anxiety, bad behaviour and school absence.
But of course, Covid impacts other age groups too, and I totally agree with what you posted. [Post edited 19 Mar 18:16]
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It was actually chiildren & young people I was primarily thinking of, having read many accounts on sm of how badly some are affected by long Covid, which occurs in *all* age groups (although older adults are more likely to report symptoms of it).
https://www.phc.ox.ac.uk/news/the-scale-of-long-covid-new-study-highlights-the-w | |
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| Let it out elite poster! (n/t) on 19:44 - Mar 19 with 1697 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Codswallop. (n/t) on 19:21 - Mar 19 by Bloots |
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| What I can't figure out is.... on 19:47 - Mar 19 with 1678 views | Lord_Lucan |
| What I can't figure out is.... on 19:00 - Mar 19 by PhilTWTD |
A little different, they were able to go out and play and go to school even if they were living away from their parents. |
Many of the kids were seriously abused - mentally, physically and sexually.
A few months stuck in a heated home during Covid with TV and social media is nothing to what the evacuee's had to go through.
Completely off the scale!!!!!!!
Edit - Sorry dear leader but that is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read on here - and borderline offensive to any evacuee's still alive and reading this. [Post edited 19 Mar 19:54]
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| What I can't figure out is.... on 19:47 - Mar 19 with 1678 views | lowhouseblue |
| What I can't figure out is.... on 19:43 - Mar 19 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Are we really playing mental suffering top trumps here. Apples and oranges come to mind. I wouldn't trade being a teenager in the 80's for being one now for all the tea in China fwiw. |
in terms of top trumps i guess you need to ask the poster who started off with the claim that no previous generation had suffered anything as bad as lockdown. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| What I can't figure out is.... on 19:53 - Mar 19 with 1636 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| What I can't figure out is.... on 19:47 - Mar 19 by Lord_Lucan |
Many of the kids were seriously abused - mentally, physically and sexually.
A few months stuck in a heated home during Covid with TV and social media is nothing to what the evacuee's had to go through.
Completely off the scale!!!!!!!
Edit - Sorry dear leader but that is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read on here - and borderline offensive to any evacuee's still alive and reading this. [Post edited 19 Mar 19:54]
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Yeah a lovely few months in a tower block, abuse optional, or skipping through sun kissed wheat fields in the Great British countryside....this is easy innit!! [Post edited 19 Mar 19:57]
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| What I can't figure out is.... on 19:54 - Mar 19 with 1628 views | Ryorry |
| What I can't figure out is.... on 18:59 - Mar 19 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Are you suggesting that your generation had it harder or that the issues dealt with are different. |
Both -
Different (pen & paper,, no digi-tech - tho that's a mixed blessing! - landlines for only a few, naked prejudice - "no blacks or Irish"; being gay an imprisonable offence for men, mysogyny etc.)
Fwiw, I think today's kids have it harder - at least my generation didn't have to grow up wondering if the planet would be habitable long enough for them to reach old age. That trumps everything else imo. | |
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| What I can't figure out is.... on 20:06 - Mar 19 with 1599 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| What I can't figure out is.... on 19:54 - Mar 19 by Ryorry |
Both -
Different (pen & paper,, no digi-tech - tho that's a mixed blessing! - landlines for only a few, naked prejudice - "no blacks or Irish"; being gay an imprisonable offence for men, mysogyny etc.)
Fwiw, I think today's kids have it harder - at least my generation didn't have to grow up wondering if the planet would be habitable long enough for them to reach old age. That trumps everything else imo. |
In my opinion the current generation have things way worse and face pressures that mine couldn't even imagine, be this the insidious and pervasive pressures of social media, the lack of a welfare safety net or any sense of being able to escape the rat race (free festivals/raves or whatever). There really is no time or space for humans to be human anymore. | |
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| What I can't figure out is.... on 20:19 - Mar 19 with 1549 views | DJR |
| What I can't figure out is.... on 18:06 - Mar 19 by lowhouseblue |
"I might add that my son (in sixth form) and daughter (at university) suffered isolation in their formative years that no previous generation has suffered."
well i think the kids who were sent away from their families and communities to places far from home as evacuees to live with people they'd never met while their families were bombed might have a claim to greater isolation and suffering. |
The people I have spoken to about it found it a great adventure, and the next door neighbour of my mother ended up eventually marrying someone she didn't know from her own town who was sent away to the same place.
And I won't go into details about the impact it had on my daughter's time at university, a time which is meant to be rather special. [Post edited 19 Mar 20:24]
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