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for all the people who suggest we shouldn't criticise reform or their voters 16:07 - May 2 with 1607 views

how would you deal with them?

how do you tackle someone who appeals to people’s base instincts and has no intention of keeping a single promise - just getting to power and blaming the problems on everyone else?

any ideas?

Poll:

do you do judo and/or do you do voodoo?

for all the people who suggest we shouldn't criticise reform or their voters on 16:17 - May 2 with 1337 views

MattinLondon

People have always had those baseline fears - hence why politicians regardless of party have always played the asylum seeker bashing card.

Saying that the key difference is that Reform and hate-preacher Farage are given far too much publicity in relation to their actual seats. They have five and are given a lot of column inches, the Lib Dems have 70 odd but are viewed as losers by the tabloids. And, Reform are on the BBC/Sky/ITV a lit more than what Ed Davy is.

But with increased publicity comes greater scrutiny- I used to think that hate preacher Farage was a good speaker with a lot of charisma. But he’s not. When he’s finally challenged he stumbles and flips all over the place and then deflects the question - most of the time he mutters something about wokism.

If the BBC etc finally question him rather than be afraid of upsetting him and his followers then I do think they won’t have that much to say. And what they do won’t appeal to a lot of their new found voters.

for all the people who suggest we shouldn't criticise reform or their voters on 16:17 - May 2 with 1334 views

Plums

I've been thinking about this. It's got to be education about the fallacies these guys are peddling. There is no point in deriding the people who vote for them as it just fuels the fire.

Very clear debunking and holding a mirror up to who they are and what they are doing is essential.

Why on earth the major parties didn't use the Adolescence story when it was top of the headlines to show Farage's support for Tate is beyond me. A massive missed opportunity.

They need taking on - but using the channels and tactics they use to counter them.

[Post edited 2 May 16:19]

	It's 106 miles to Portman Road, we've got a full tank of gas, half a round of Port Salut, it's dark... and we're wearing blue tinted sunglasses.
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for all the people who suggest we shouldn't criticise reform or their voters on 16:25 - May 2 with 1292 views

StokieBlue

for all the people who suggest we shouldn't criticise reform or their voters on 16:17 - May 2 by Plums

[Post edited 2 May 16:19]

I think it's been fairly conclusively proven that regardless of how clearly you debunk the points or how much evidence you can provide it's largely ignored.

It's very similar to the classic conspiracy theorist mindset - anyone saying something different to what they believe is part of the conspiracy regardless of the evidence they can provide.

I don't know how to change it, it's possible that it's too late short of banning the vectors of fake news which is never going to happen and might not even be enough.

Politicians and content producers can say anything and even when it's later proven to be false the narrative has moved and people don't realise or possibly care that it was false.

A good place to start would be media like the BBC actually forcefully challenging false claims as they are made rather than moving on quickly but then you run into the problem that people believing the false statement will say the BBC is a biased left-wing mouthpiece and things possibly get more entrenched.

SB

for all the people who suggest we shouldn't criticise reform or their voters on 16:26 - May 2 with 1284 views

positivity

for all the people who suggest we shouldn't criticise reform or their voters on 16:17 - May 2 by Plums

[Post edited 2 May 16:19]

the trouble is the channels they use are owned and gatekeeped (not sure if that's a verb!), by their supporters and cheerleaders, it's pretty tricky.

you only have to look at the difference a story about a muslim terrorist receives compared to that of a "culture warrior" terrorist such as that in leeds last week; barely made the news

Poll:

do you do judo and/or do you do voodoo?

for all the people who suggest we shouldn't criticise reform or their voters on 16:28 - May 2 with 1266 views

positivity

for all the people who suggest we shouldn't criticise reform or their voters on 16:25 - May 2 by StokieBlue

some education in critical thinking would be useful, but how on earth would you do that?! maybe we need a social media license!

Poll:

do you do judo and/or do you do voodoo?

for all the people who suggest we shouldn't criticise reform or their voters on 16:33 - May 2 with 1242 views

BloomBlue

Do the Conservatives and Labour keep their promises?

For example Starmer/Labour said they would pay the WASPI women what they were owed, but then didn't. Is that a promise they had no intention of keeping just to get into power?

I would like to see higher standards but all parties do it. Or rather they all say we will do and then blame the reason for not doing it on someone else.

for all the people who suggest we shouldn't criticise reform or their voters on 16:34 - May 2 with 1241 views

RIPbobby

You have to let democracy take its path. If we all thought the same and wanted the same then democracy falls down. These reform folk now have to prove themselves. If they fall short they'll be voted out next time.

for all the people who suggest we shouldn't criticise reform or their voters on 16:38 - May 2 with 1219 views

positivity

for all the people who suggest we shouldn't criticise reform or their voters on 16:34 - May 2 by RIPbobby
You have to let democracy take its path. If we all thought the same and wanted the same then democracy falls down. These reform folk now have to prove themselves. If they fall short they'll be voted out next time.

not sure if it's that easy. since the election 20% of their mps have been in open revolt and accused of bullying and harassment yet their vote has gone up.

is accountability only for labour and the tories?

Poll:

do you do judo and/or do you do voodoo?

for all the people who suggest we shouldn't criticise reform or their voters on 17:07 - May 2 with 1113 views

Cheltenham_Blue

Last night on the way out of the polling station I was stopped by a Reform canvasser asking who I voted for, I didn’t tell him, just asked what Reform would do about pot holes.

He said something along the lines of sending in auditors to county councils to see where the waste was and those savings would help.

I suggested we go post 2nd world war and offer citizens from the commonwealth countries a home in the UK if they come here, and work with a good rate of pay working to fix uk roads and infrastructure.

I didn’t realise someone could actually turn purple if they weren’t suffocating.

Poll:

Is it more annoying when builders

for all the people who suggest we shouldn't criticise reform or their voters on 17:08 - May 2 with 1101 views

Radlett_blue

Protest votes in the early days of an unpopular government are nothing new, although this seems more of a seismic shift, with voters possibly deserting the Conservative Party for good, together with the "Red Wall" working class voters (mot of whom probably voted for Brexit) also abandoning Labour. Starmer can probably afford to ignore it, although he will hope Labour don't face too many demoralising by-elections. The big threat is to the Tories, who could virtually be wiped off the electoral map, which happened to the Progressive Conservatives in Canada in 1993. Their only real solution is to lurch to the right, hoping to stem the flow to Reform, although that will virtually guarantee Labour victory at the next General election. Yes, reform don't have many coherent policies but as they aren't going to have any opportunities to put them into practice, they can get away with this.

Poll:

Should horse racing be banned in the UK?

for all the people who suggest we shouldn't criticise reform or their voters on 17:12 - May 2 with 1075 views

positivity

for all the people who suggest we shouldn't criticise reform or their voters on 17:07 - May 2 by Cheltenham_Blue

excellent work!

Poll:

do you do judo and/or do you do voodoo?

for all the people who suggest we shouldn't criticise reform or their voters on 17:13 - May 2 with 1070 views

BlueForYou

Are you talking about Labour here? I mean, they've never kept a promise & blame everything upon everyone else. Very disappointed with them & I'm not surprised Reform are surging. I'm not allied to any party just an observer.

-1

for all the people who suggest we shouldn't criticise reform or their voters on 17:17 - May 2 with 1041 views

positivity

for all the people who suggest we shouldn't criticise reform or their voters on 17:13 - May 2 by BlueForYou
Are you talking about Labour here? I mean, they've never kept a promise & blame everything upon everyone else. Very disappointed with them & I'm not surprised Reform are surging. I'm not allied to any party just an observer.

"they've never kept a promise". i'm not sure that's true

how do we stop reform?

Poll:

do you do judo and/or do you do voodoo?

for all the people who suggest we shouldn't criticise reform or their voters on 17:19 - May 2 with 1037 views

Swansea_Blue

You can’t as long as there are politicians willing to engage with that sort of populist bollox, unfortunately. The people themselves aren’t the problem - they’re just people. It’s the bad actors in the press who stir up the hatred and the politicians who prey on the fear who are to blame.

There’s a chance a period of government and the enduing chaos would turn some people, much as Trump’s ratings have collapsed (see also Boris Johnson). But there’ll still be the fanatics who will support them come what may.

[Post edited 2 May 17:23]

Poll:

Do you think Pert is key to all of this?

for all the people who suggest we shouldn't criticise reform or their voters on 17:39 - May 2 with 976 views

Ftnfwest

Black hole?

for all the people who suggest we shouldn't criticise reform or their voters on 19:24 - May 2 with 798 views

NthQldITFC

for all the people who suggest we shouldn't criticise reform or their voters on 16:25 - May 2 by StokieBlue

I can't see any logic-based arguments getting past the propaganda-poisoned fixed viewpoints. Only a physical shock, i.e. a (hopefully) reversible societal mini-breakdown and the realisation that a decent infrastructure and welfare state, with a social contract and fairness for all enabled by wealth redistribution, is what protects ALL of us from the darkness, will shake out a lot of the sh!tty self-centred ideology prevalent in our society today. [Breathe!]

The infinitely bigger problem of climate catastrophe also needs the same shock to the system for a large chunk of society to actually take responsibility for their actions too. We're too selfish and unseeing as a supposed highly-evolved species to learn how to selflessly survive our own expansion against the fixed constraints of our environment.

Forza John McDonnell.

	⚔ Long live the Duke of Punuar ⚔
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for all the people who suggest we shouldn't criticise reform or their voters on 19:24 - May 2 with 803 views

wrightsrightglove

This is very much the crux of the issue, to me, it has to be a two pronged approach:

1. You have to highlight every false promise they make when it’s not delivered. Make it clear to the people who voted for them that they’re failing to deliver for them.

2. You have to show them that there’s a positive alternative. I had hoped that labour would come in and become a strong, progressive left leaning government but instead they’ve come in and enacted what are essentially Tory policies. Show these people a different path where their lives are directly improved and they’ll vote for you

for all the people who suggest we shouldn't criticise reform or their voters on 19:40 - May 2 with 741 views

vapour_trail

for all the people who suggest we shouldn't criticise reform or their voters on 17:08 - May 2 by Radlett_blue

I believe reform will win the next election. Farage ain’t messing about and labour are playing right into his hands.

	Trailing vapour since 1999.
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for all the people who suggest we shouldn't criticise reform or their voters on 19:56 - May 2 with 690 views

Lamp

for all the people who suggest we shouldn't criticise reform or their voters on 19:40 - May 2 by vapour_trail
I believe reform will win the next election. Farage ain’t messing about and labour are playing right into his hands.

I don’t think they will. Now they are in charge of councils they’ll hopefully be shown up as easy answer people pleasers unfit for power.

The worry is how much of the capitalist establishment is behind them. The electorate that is voting for them honestly has no idea about what true capitalists actually think about them. They aspire and think there is potential to be them, but it will never be allowed to ever happen.

for all the people who suggest we shouldn't criticise reform or their voters on 19:59 - May 2 with 677 views

Swansea_Blue

for all the people who suggest we shouldn't criticise reform or their voters on 17:39 - May 2 by Ftnfwest
Black hole?

Trebuchet. Which would provide a nice symmetry knowing they’ve been dispatched by something named after a foreign word

I am joking of course. People are free to vote for whoever they want, however nuts their decision.

Poll:

Do you think Pert is key to all of this?

for all the people who suggest we shouldn't criticise reform or their voters on 20:11 - May 2 with 646 views

Nthsuffolkblue

I have never understood why national parties have any representation at local government elections. All local government elections should be stood by independents or have a separate party system. The issues are completely different and it drives tribalism and confusion over what is decided at which level. Around here the Green Party has gained a lot of support in local politics because their issues are very appropriate and the local councilllors have done a fantastic job.

I don't think it is healthy for local elections to be seen as a judgment or sounding board on national politics.

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for all the people who suggest we shouldn't criticise reform or their voters on 20:14 - May 2 with 626 views

Radlett_blue

for all the people who suggest we shouldn't criticise reform or their voters on 19:24 - May 2 by NthQldITFC

I think you'll find that a lot of the Reform voters are working class people who are dismayed how much of their taxes are going to pay for people on benefits. The small boat immigration issue is not as important as they feel, but many Reform voters feel conventional politicians have let them down by failing to tackle this issue & that Farage has the answers.

Poll:

Should horse racing be banned in the UK?

for all the people who suggest we shouldn't criticise reform or their voters on 20:33 - May 2 with 594 views

NthQldITFC

for all the people who suggest we shouldn't criticise reform or their voters on 20:14 - May 2 by Radlett_blue
I think you'll find that a lot of the Reform voters are working class people who are dismayed how much of their taxes are going to pay for people on benefits. The small boat immigration issue is not as important as they feel, but many Reform voters feel conventional politicians have let them down by failing to tackle this issue & that Farage has the answers.

I get that, but I was commenting more on the overall lack of social conscience in Farage and his ilk around the world, and then (as usual!) I got sidetracked into climate change, because I feel that there's a common problem to most of these big issues in that our me first and fk the rest of 'em consumer society seems to have lost the ability to compromise and co-operate for the greater good, at a time when we so desperately need to change our ways.

	⚔ Long live the Duke of Punuar ⚔
Poll:	What Olympic sport/group are you most 'into'?

for all the people who suggest we shouldn't criticise reform or their voters on 20:37 - May 2 with 578 views

Nthsuffolkblue

for all the people who suggest we shouldn't criticise reform or their voters on 20:14 - May 2 by Radlett_blue
I think you'll find that a lot of the Reform voters are working class people who are dismayed how much of their taxes are going to pay for people on benefits. The small boat immigration issue is not as important as they feel, but many Reform voters feel conventional politicians have let them down by failing to tackle this issue & that Farage has the answers.

This is the remarkable game they play. They set up the problem to win popularity without any intention of dealing with it because it is a vote winner. It has begun to backfire a bit on the Conservatives as they are being seen to have failed to deal with it so a more extreme "solution" is needed.

The rhetoric of the "problem" perpetuated by much of the media is plain nasty.

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for all the people who suggest we shouldn't criticise reform or their voters on 20:55 - May 2 with 538 views

Swansea_Blue

for all the people who suggest we shouldn't criticise reform or their voters on 16:17 - May 2 by MattinLondon

Yeah, he’s not a good speaker in the traditional sense. His strength is triggering people so they react and then he can claim the moral victory. He’s very good at that. It’s not a nice trait, but it’s effective.

His motivation fascinates me. I assume he’s deeply damaged. I had the chance to spend some time with his people in Brussels back when he was only an irrelevant MEP (always absent btw, he was never at any sessions I viewed). Their whole energy was devoted to getting one over on their political rivals. There was never a mention of helping constituents. Farage was very much the outsider and ridiculed by his peers. None of them took him seriously and I suspect that wasn’t the first time he’d faced that sort of rejection. I don’t know what his original background is, but being a misfit seems to have shaped all he’s doing now. He’s probably a psychologist’s wet dream.

Poll:

Do you think Pert is key to all of this?

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