| Trade deal with India 18:03 - May 6 with 2928 views | Coastalblue |
Surely that has to be a positive with the size of their economy, the upward trajectory they are on and the close ties between the two nations?
Hard to see too many downsides to this and we desperately need some deals to prop us up after Brexit? |  |
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| Trade deal with India on 18:12 - May 6 with 2371 views | Churchman |
I can’t see any particular downsides. I’m sure there will be some, but I see closer ties with India as a good thing. |  | | |
| Trade deal with India on 18:57 - May 6 with 2249 views | BlueForYou |
Well done all involved. Good to get that finally done, it's taken a long time. Congrats to Labour on this. Has to be good for our country. |  | | |
| Trade deal with India on 19:21 - May 6 with 2187 views | Trequartista |
Indian workers and their employers pay no Nat Ins for 3 years, just after raising it for UK employers.
Gift-wrapped for Reform. |  |
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| Trade deal with India on 19:25 - May 6 with 2167 views | Coastalblue |
| Trade deal with India on 19:21 - May 6 by Trequartista |
Indian workers and their employers pay no Nat Ins for 3 years, just after raising it for UK employers.
Gift-wrapped for Reform. |
Same deal as EU and US isn't it? fairly standard? And works both ways which with Indian companies becoming larger in the world's economy might benefit us more than them? | |
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| Trade deal with India on 19:28 - May 6 with 2153 views | Trequartista |
| Trade deal with India on 19:25 - May 6 by Coastalblue |
Same deal as EU and US isn't it? fairly standard? And works both ways which with Indian companies becoming larger in the world's economy might benefit us more than them? |
Yes there are bits and pieces both sides could argue about e.g. the balance of migrants with the EU and the US is fairly level, not so with India. | |
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| Trade deal with India on 19:30 - May 6 with 2152 views | StokieBlue |
Well it's better than nothing but there does need to be some reality applied here:
- UK trade with India is ~42bn GBP
- UK trade with the EU is ~800bn GBP
So we have lost 800bn GBP of free trade and gained a bit of a better deal (not free trade) on 42bn GBP of trade.
What it really shows is that Brexit was madness.
SB |  | | |
| Trade deal with India on 20:01 - May 6 with 2068 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Trade deal with India on 19:30 - May 6 by StokieBlue |
Well it's better than nothing but there does need to be some reality applied here:
- UK trade with India is ~42bn GBP
- UK trade with the EU is ~800bn GBP
So we have lost 800bn GBP of free trade and gained a bit of a better deal (not free trade) on 42bn GBP of trade.
What it really shows is that Brexit was madness.
SB |
Re EU - "So we have lost 800bn GBP of free trade"
How do you work that one out then? |  |
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| Trade deal with India on 21:20 - May 6 with 1887 views | StokieBlue |
| Trade deal with India on 20:01 - May 6 by Lord_Lucan |
Re EU - "So we have lost 800bn GBP of free trade"
How do you work that one out then? |
That's a fair point, I used the method the BBC were using which is to add exports and imports which isn't a great way of doing it but does highlight the overall level of tariff free trade we enjoyed with the EU.
If you want to look at exports only then 47.7% of our exports are to the EU versus 1.9% with India [1].
That equates to 17bn exports to India and 380bn to the EU.
Whatever way you want to slice the numbers, all it does is show that economically Brexit was disastrous and obtaining a relatively small trade deal with India which isn't even tariff free just highlights that.
SB
Edit: Not sure what I was thinking here, the trade is still tariff free of course but much more complicated which is what I believe Lucan meant rather than the size of the trade.
[1]. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y6y90e5vzo [Post edited 6 May 21:33]
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| Trade deal with India on 21:22 - May 6 with 1881 views | ElderGrizzly |
Assuming there is an India left to trade with…
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| Trade deal with India on 21:27 - May 6 with 1836 views | Blueschev |
| Trade deal with India on 21:20 - May 6 by StokieBlue |
That's a fair point, I used the method the BBC were using which is to add exports and imports which isn't a great way of doing it but does highlight the overall level of tariff free trade we enjoyed with the EU.
If you want to look at exports only then 47.7% of our exports are to the EU versus 1.9% with India [1].
That equates to 17bn exports to India and 380bn to the EU.
Whatever way you want to slice the numbers, all it does is show that economically Brexit was disastrous and obtaining a relatively small trade deal with India which isn't even tariff free just highlights that.
SB
Edit: Not sure what I was thinking here, the trade is still tariff free of course but much more complicated which is what I believe Lucan meant rather than the size of the trade.
[1]. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y6y90e5vzo [Post edited 6 May 21:33]
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We still have tariff free trade with the EU. You now need import declarations which are time consuming and an added expense, but there's no duty on EU goods coming in to the UK. |  | | |
| Trade deal with India on 21:29 - May 6 with 1823 views | StokieBlue |
| Trade deal with India on 21:27 - May 6 by Blueschev |
We still have tariff free trade with the EU. You now need import declarations which are time consuming and an added expense, but there's no duty on EU goods coming in to the UK. |
My relocation has let me down here, thanks for the correction, you're clearly right. As you say though, it's far more complicated than it was previously.
SB | | | |
| Trade deal with India on 21:36 - May 6 with 1778 views | StokieBlue |
| Trade deal with India on 21:22 - May 6 by ElderGrizzly |
Assuming there is an India left to trade with…
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Confirmed by the Indian army now.
Non-military targets apparently.
SB | | | |
| Trade deal with India on 21:44 - May 6 with 1733 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Trade deal with India on 19:30 - May 6 by StokieBlue |
Well it's better than nothing but there does need to be some reality applied here:
- UK trade with India is ~42bn GBP
- UK trade with the EU is ~800bn GBP
So we have lost 800bn GBP of free trade and gained a bit of a better deal (not free trade) on 42bn GBP of trade.
What it really shows is that Brexit was madness.
SB |
The EU deal with India is expected to be finalised about the same time ours is as well, so it’s all a bit of necessary (but wasteful) duplication. Still, better we have it than not. |  |
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| Trade deal with India on 21:55 - May 6 with 1683 views | _clive_baker_ |
| Trade deal with India on 21:36 - May 6 by StokieBlue |
Confirmed by the Indian army now.
Non-military targets apparently.
SB |
Not surprised it’s come to this but could get very messy |  | | |
| Trade deal with India on 23:22 - May 6 with 1497 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Trade deal with India on 21:27 - May 6 by Blueschev |
We still have tariff free trade with the EU. You now need import declarations which are time consuming and an added expense, but there's no duty on EU goods coming in to the UK. |
Exactly, we still have free trade with EU so in that respect nothing has changed, that's why I questioned the figures. Yes it's more of a pain to import and export these days but for dry goods it's not overly difficult.
I'm sure Stokie Blue had the best of intentions but the figures he quotes are complete b0llocks.
Even so, it highlighted something that gets missed and it is something I have been trying to explain to people for some time. I was, and still am largely a remainer but there were many negative things with The EU.
We voted for a Common Market - a trade deal where we all traded with ease. This though became a European state with we never ever voted for.
I stayed one night last week with an olive producer in Morocco and this guy is now doing BIG business with UK. When UK was in The EU this would have been impossible as our agreements would have meant we would have been forced to buy olive oil from the likes of Greece but since leaving we can do whatever we want to do.
And here's the thing.........We voted for a Common Market and if it makes things easier then hey, that was the whole point. The point though was not to restrict our trade with non EU countries and if we can buy olive oil cheaper in a non EU country then we should be able to do so. . [Post edited 6 May 23:26]
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| Trade deal with India on 04:37 - May 7 with 1393 views | shady |
I don’t profess any economic knowledge or training but this trade deal seems particularly weak.
Are these numbers really true; a £4.8 billion yearly rise, well that’s peanuts.
Whereas previously we were India’s major trading partner, and sold highly profitable armaments; and played a leading role in all the major sectors ...now we are now in the market for biscuits and India tonic water.
Living in India;
I have watched the UK’s trade and investment in India crater this century. Of course, the present Indian government is actively anti-colonial so past karma has come into play. UK companies (Vodaphone and Vedanta) have been viciously retrospectively taxed (although courts have rescinded.)
Only last week the French were able to sell another 2 squadrons of Rafale fighters at hugely inflated prices. (7.4$ billion for 26 jets+ parts)
...and we are celebrating with biscuits crumbs.
Going forward UK needs to push education services: boarding schools, universities(not just the red-bricks) and courses in polishing business English. (Here Trump helps as there will be a move away from his tainted agenda and their companies will shrink. So act fast.)
The French Americans and Russians have cornered the armaments market. Chinese are into everything but are not favoured much as they are friends with the antagonistic Pakistan.
Cars will not sell well except high end Land Rovers as mass market cars are made well and cheaply here.
Buses can do well and also motor-bikes and scooters and metro trainsets
Unilever should do well with their fast moving consumer items and brands.
This biscuit opportunity really makes no sense; already McVities are manufacturing here. Just last week I bought a 75g packet of chocolate chip HobNobs for 35p. Australian biscuit companies are here as well but this market is ultra competitive. (TWTD management would love it here.)
Even in soft drinks the USA companies are under attack from local variants. Yesterday bought a KitKat chunky for 60p …made in UAE
(I'm putting in some prices to show the difficulty of making a profit for the UK.)
Whiskey and Gin also the locals can make quite well so don’t see huge profits for the Scots there. Also the Americans are also wanting to do a deal to push their bourbon (and high-end motorbikes)
Prepare for a deluge of Indian snacks led by Haldiram’s and there 100 varieties of “Bombay mixes” Read the small print and the high salt levels.
The good news is that there will be more Indian chefs so the staff shortages in the UK will diminish, though there may be the usual nefarious redesignations to other jobs. |  | | |
| Trade deal with India on 08:39 - May 7 with 1256 views | GeoffSentence |
| Trade deal with India on 23:22 - May 6 by Lord_Lucan |
Exactly, we still have free trade with EU so in that respect nothing has changed, that's why I questioned the figures. Yes it's more of a pain to import and export these days but for dry goods it's not overly difficult.
I'm sure Stokie Blue had the best of intentions but the figures he quotes are complete b0llocks.
Even so, it highlighted something that gets missed and it is something I have been trying to explain to people for some time. I was, and still am largely a remainer but there were many negative things with The EU.
We voted for a Common Market - a trade deal where we all traded with ease. This though became a European state with we never ever voted for.
I stayed one night last week with an olive producer in Morocco and this guy is now doing BIG business with UK. When UK was in The EU this would have been impossible as our agreements would have meant we would have been forced to buy olive oil from the likes of Greece but since leaving we can do whatever we want to do.
And here's the thing.........We voted for a Common Market and if it makes things easier then hey, that was the whole point. The point though was not to restrict our trade with non EU countries and if we can buy olive oil cheaper in a non EU country then we should be able to do so. . [Post edited 6 May 23:26]
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How does our current trading arrangement with the EU compare with pre-EU arrangements? Is it similar to the old Common Market? |  |
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| Trade deal with India on 08:45 - May 7 with 1232 views | DJR |
| Trade deal with India on 04:37 - May 7 by shady |
I don’t profess any economic knowledge or training but this trade deal seems particularly weak.
Are these numbers really true; a £4.8 billion yearly rise, well that’s peanuts.
Whereas previously we were India’s major trading partner, and sold highly profitable armaments; and played a leading role in all the major sectors ...now we are now in the market for biscuits and India tonic water.
Living in India;
I have watched the UK’s trade and investment in India crater this century. Of course, the present Indian government is actively anti-colonial so past karma has come into play. UK companies (Vodaphone and Vedanta) have been viciously retrospectively taxed (although courts have rescinded.)
Only last week the French were able to sell another 2 squadrons of Rafale fighters at hugely inflated prices. (7.4$ billion for 26 jets+ parts)
...and we are celebrating with biscuits crumbs.
Going forward UK needs to push education services: boarding schools, universities(not just the red-bricks) and courses in polishing business English. (Here Trump helps as there will be a move away from his tainted agenda and their companies will shrink. So act fast.)
The French Americans and Russians have cornered the armaments market. Chinese are into everything but are not favoured much as they are friends with the antagonistic Pakistan.
Cars will not sell well except high end Land Rovers as mass market cars are made well and cheaply here.
Buses can do well and also motor-bikes and scooters and metro trainsets
Unilever should do well with their fast moving consumer items and brands.
This biscuit opportunity really makes no sense; already McVities are manufacturing here. Just last week I bought a 75g packet of chocolate chip HobNobs for 35p. Australian biscuit companies are here as well but this market is ultra competitive. (TWTD management would love it here.)
Even in soft drinks the USA companies are under attack from local variants. Yesterday bought a KitKat chunky for 60p …made in UAE
(I'm putting in some prices to show the difficulty of making a profit for the UK.)
Whiskey and Gin also the locals can make quite well so don’t see huge profits for the Scots there. Also the Americans are also wanting to do a deal to push their bourbon (and high-end motorbikes)
Prepare for a deluge of Indian snacks led by Haldiram’s and there 100 varieties of “Bombay mixes” Read the small print and the high salt levels.
The good news is that there will be more Indian chefs so the staff shortages in the UK will diminish, though there may be the usual nefarious redesignations to other jobs. |
Thank for that excellent insight.
I heard on the news that £4.8 billion (which is some time off) represents 0.1% of GDP. [Post edited 7 May 8:46]
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| Trade deal with India on 10:32 - May 7 with 1106 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Trade deal with India on 04:37 - May 7 by shady |
I don’t profess any economic knowledge or training but this trade deal seems particularly weak.
Are these numbers really true; a £4.8 billion yearly rise, well that’s peanuts.
Whereas previously we were India’s major trading partner, and sold highly profitable armaments; and played a leading role in all the major sectors ...now we are now in the market for biscuits and India tonic water.
Living in India;
I have watched the UK’s trade and investment in India crater this century. Of course, the present Indian government is actively anti-colonial so past karma has come into play. UK companies (Vodaphone and Vedanta) have been viciously retrospectively taxed (although courts have rescinded.)
Only last week the French were able to sell another 2 squadrons of Rafale fighters at hugely inflated prices. (7.4$ billion for 26 jets+ parts)
...and we are celebrating with biscuits crumbs.
Going forward UK needs to push education services: boarding schools, universities(not just the red-bricks) and courses in polishing business English. (Here Trump helps as there will be a move away from his tainted agenda and their companies will shrink. So act fast.)
The French Americans and Russians have cornered the armaments market. Chinese are into everything but are not favoured much as they are friends with the antagonistic Pakistan.
Cars will not sell well except high end Land Rovers as mass market cars are made well and cheaply here.
Buses can do well and also motor-bikes and scooters and metro trainsets
Unilever should do well with their fast moving consumer items and brands.
This biscuit opportunity really makes no sense; already McVities are manufacturing here. Just last week I bought a 75g packet of chocolate chip HobNobs for 35p. Australian biscuit companies are here as well but this market is ultra competitive. (TWTD management would love it here.)
Even in soft drinks the USA companies are under attack from local variants. Yesterday bought a KitKat chunky for 60p …made in UAE
(I'm putting in some prices to show the difficulty of making a profit for the UK.)
Whiskey and Gin also the locals can make quite well so don’t see huge profits for the Scots there. Also the Americans are also wanting to do a deal to push their bourbon (and high-end motorbikes)
Prepare for a deluge of Indian snacks led by Haldiram’s and there 100 varieties of “Bombay mixes” Read the small print and the high salt levels.
The good news is that there will be more Indian chefs so the staff shortages in the UK will diminish, though there may be the usual nefarious redesignations to other jobs. |
Decent post that , although a shame to read.
In what seems like another life now we were invited by Indian trade association to exhibit at a trade fair there. The organisers were telling me that the general public want to buy British and it was very much a status thing, unfortunately our stuff is made in China so we couldn't work it, we had nothing of interest to sell there.
It always stuck in my mind though and I have always thought about launching a British product over there. Funnily enough once every two years I visit a fellow TW4TDER who manufactures soap in the UK and we always say we are going to get something together but we never get round to it, it has become a bit of a running joke in fact.
Anyhoo, do you see things changing?The government seems a bit tvvatish. | |
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| Trade deal with India on 10:49 - May 7 with 1059 views | Blueschev |
| Trade deal with India on 08:39 - May 7 by GeoffSentence |
How does our current trading arrangement with the EU compare with pre-EU arrangements? Is it similar to the old Common Market? |
Prior to January 1st 2021 there was free movement of goods between the EU and UK. Now all goods are subject to customs checks at the border, and additional checks on many, though not all, food and plant products. The latter can be a very expensive nightmare if the paperwork is wrong or missing from the country of origin. There are no tariffs between the UK and EU, which there would have been in the event of a no deal Brexit. | | | |
| Trade deal with India on 11:16 - May 7 with 1001 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Trade deal with India on 10:49 - May 7 by Blueschev |
Prior to January 1st 2021 there was free movement of goods between the EU and UK. Now all goods are subject to customs checks at the border, and additional checks on many, though not all, food and plant products. The latter can be a very expensive nightmare if the paperwork is wrong or missing from the country of origin. There are no tariffs between the UK and EU, which there would have been in the event of a no deal Brexit. |
For dry goods it isn't too bad but for foodstuffs I imagine it to be a nightmare. I'm not massively clued up on food and wet goods but for some reason I'm thinking that some grace period of Euro countries fishing in our waters is coming to an end - and if this is the case I suspect exports in general to get harder as they will want to turn the screw and re bargain.
We don't really export so much of this flies over my head but we have just been hit with The Windsor Framework thing so sending stuff to Northern Ireland is now a problem - a problem that really need not exist but unfortunately Northern Ireland became politicised. | |
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| Trade deal with India on 11:21 - May 7 with 964 views | Blueschev |
| Trade deal with India on 11:16 - May 7 by Lord_Lucan |
For dry goods it isn't too bad but for foodstuffs I imagine it to be a nightmare. I'm not massively clued up on food and wet goods but for some reason I'm thinking that some grace period of Euro countries fishing in our waters is coming to an end - and if this is the case I suspect exports in general to get harder as they will want to turn the screw and re bargain.
We don't really export so much of this flies over my head but we have just been hit with The Windsor Framework thing so sending stuff to Northern Ireland is now a problem - a problem that really need not exist but unfortunately Northern Ireland became politicised. |
If you have a good clearing agent it's not as bad (if you don't PM me as I'm very good). I don't get involved with fish exports but the imports can be problematic if the paperwork is wrong. It's harder to get goods in to Northern Ireland from the rest of the UK than it is for it to go to Dublin, it's a right mess. | | | |
| Trade deal with India on 11:56 - May 7 with 909 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
The most extraordinary thing for me is that Rishi Sunak didn't pull this deal off a few months before the Election.
The first Indian-heritage British Prime Minister, married into one of the richest Indian families who run one of the biggest Indian business global success stories.
He backed Brexit, but didn't make this sizable deal a priority, or call in favours to be able to announce it at the time of most Electoral advantage as a "Brexit bonus".
Utterly baffling! |  | | |
| Trade deal with India on 12:40 - May 7 with 825 views | shady |
| Trade deal with India on 10:32 - May 7 by Lord_Lucan |
Decent post that , although a shame to read.
In what seems like another life now we were invited by Indian trade association to exhibit at a trade fair there. The organisers were telling me that the general public want to buy British and it was very much a status thing, unfortunately our stuff is made in China so we couldn't work it, we had nothing of interest to sell there.
It always stuck in my mind though and I have always thought about launching a British product over there. Funnily enough once every two years I visit a fellow TW4TDER who manufactures soap in the UK and we always say we are going to get something together but we never get round to it, it has become a bit of a running joke in fact.
Anyhoo, do you see things changing?The government seems a bit tvvatish. |
Trade is another subject that I struggle with.
it appears a gigantic own goal that has led to Frogs and Yankees
giggling at us in their rear-view mirrors.
There is a 5 million south Asian diaspora eager for a taste of home to say nothing of a vast Indian middle class that’s eager for quality goods.
Seriously, how hard can it be.
I have no faith in politicians and bureaucrats of both nations
who can blabber but not produce.
In fairness there are some human differences.
Indians are unfamiliar with truth and integrity.
Also for them deals are done, and a middleman always gets a cut.
A bit like VAR because in the past we’ve been deceived and red carded whereas they get away with all manner of devilment
…so maybe it’s not so straight forward.
M&S sells its UK made clothes in malls here but few food items.
Maybe there is an opportunity to export fashionable British made clothes, biscuits, marmalade etc
Yes, I believe soaps and toiletries could work.
There was always a crazy demand for ‘Camay.’
High end soaps do sell quite well here…
True, government is tvvatish
... the more things change …the more things stay the same.
Bureaucrats are super cunning and know how to play the system. This deal will take a year to get through UK Parliament and who knows what tricks will follow. Or it may work well? Let’s hope for the best
Yes, bit baffling that Sunak’s trade deal didn’t make it. My take is that there were ongoing 12 rounds of talks and always a political reason for the delay. The usual one being that you’re about to change your PM so we’ll wait for you to sort yourself out as the new chap may have other priorities.
Even yesterday I was reading in Indian press,
that this deal was being delayed again ...then suddenly its on.
PM here is a tad busy, so probably thought to pass this through for an easy win whilst preparing for his cup final with the naughty neighbours, | | | |
| Trade deal with India on 13:15 - May 7 with 749 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Trade deal with India on 11:21 - May 7 by Blueschev |
If you have a good clearing agent it's not as bad (if you don't PM me as I'm very good). I don't get involved with fish exports but the imports can be problematic if the paperwork is wrong. It's harder to get goods in to Northern Ireland from the rest of the UK than it is for it to go to Dublin, it's a right mess. |
Thanks for the offer. I'll keep it in mind but I use AM World in Soton as we deal in class 1 explosives and they always manage to find drivers other than Goldstar - and I would rather not use Goldstar. | |
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