| Interesting Perspective 08:49 - Jul 1 with 2510 views | Chris_ITFC |
“If a club comes in for a player or a member of staff and you find yourself saying, ‘We cannot sell them under any circumstances,’ then you probably have to look at yourself as to why you put yourself in a position where that person is so important that it’s impossible to do anything about that,” Phil Giles, Brentford’s director of football, said on Monday at an introductory press conference for their new head coach Keith Andrews. |  |
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| Interesting Perspective on 09:05 - Jul 1 with 2379 views | keanekipper |
Thats the position we need get to with mckenna, but we started from such a low point the club needs to catch up, losing him would feel like jenga to me.
Next steps i feel ashton needs to shed some responsibility, starting by hiring a proper head of recruitment, its such a key role it needs someone's sole focus. |  | | |
| Interesting Perspective on 09:21 - Jul 1 with 2242 views | Wacko |
Brentford have a well-defined system and coaches slot into it. No surprise that neither Dean Smith nor Mark Warburton were that successful after they left | |
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| Interesting Perspective on 09:25 - Jul 1 with 2216 views | soupytwist |
| Interesting Perspective on 09:21 - Jul 1 by Wacko |
Brentford have a well-defined system and coaches slot into it. No surprise that neither Dean Smith nor Mark Warburton were that successful after they left |
And it's one reason why Spurs fans need to temper their enthusiasm about Thomas Frank. Maybe you can take him out of the Brentford system and he'll be successful, who knows.
He did OK at Brondby before Brentford. |  | | |
| Interesting Perspective on 09:50 - Jul 1 with 2045 views | Vic |
| Interesting Perspective on 09:05 - Jul 1 by keanekipper |
Thats the position we need get to with mckenna, but we started from such a low point the club needs to catch up, losing him would feel like jenga to me.
Next steps i feel ashton needs to shed some responsibility, starting by hiring a proper head of recruitment, its such a key role it needs someone's sole focus. |
Agreed. If it’s not already MA needs to see part of his role as growing the club to where we could lose him or McKenna and still be as strong. I suspect he knows that, but there still a fair old way to go. I’d really, really like to see MA divesting some of his responsibilities - I hope he can.
We’ve a huge backroom staff and hopefully we’re developing more of them to be like Lee Grant, ready for one or more to step up to the top jobs. |  |
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| Interesting Perspective on 10:25 - Jul 1 with 1873 views | SheffordBlue |
| Interesting Perspective on 09:50 - Jul 1 by Vic |
Agreed. If it’s not already MA needs to see part of his role as growing the club to where we could lose him or McKenna and still be as strong. I suspect he knows that, but there still a fair old way to go. I’d really, really like to see MA divesting some of his responsibilities - I hope he can.
We’ve a huge backroom staff and hopefully we’re developing more of them to be like Lee Grant, ready for one or more to step up to the top jobs. |
I think he's already divested some of his responsibilities - Luke Werhun leads on all the player contract negotiations with clubs/players/agents, for example. There have also been a number of senior appointments over the past 18 months into the commercial/infrastructure side of things.
There definitely seems to be far more growth in this area needed - Head of Recruitment seems an obvious gap (and a recent analyst job advert suggested there will be one). I do think it's difficult to judge how much he still leads on a day-to-day basis without being in and around the club's operations. | |
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| Interesting Perspective on 10:59 - Jul 1 with 1709 views | Guthrum |
The issue with that being that if a perhaps smaller club acquires a generational talent - especially cheaply or through good fortune such as an academy product or clever scouting of lower divisions/abroad - then that player or coach may be of fundamental value to their success and, at the same time, in practical terms un-replaceable. Them leaving has the potential to cause real damage, yet not having them in the first place may deny success.
The alternative is to accept a level of mediocrity in order to avoid risk. Is that better? |  |
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| Interesting Perspective on 11:43 - Jul 1 with 1557 views | gsoly |
| Interesting Perspective on 10:59 - Jul 1 by Guthrum |
The issue with that being that if a perhaps smaller club acquires a generational talent - especially cheaply or through good fortune such as an academy product or clever scouting of lower divisions/abroad - then that player or coach may be of fundamental value to their success and, at the same time, in practical terms un-replaceable. Them leaving has the potential to cause real damage, yet not having them in the first place may deny success.
The alternative is to accept a level of mediocrity in order to avoid risk. Is that better? |
But it's near impossible to keep that player - let's say Mbuemo - performing well if he is dead set on leaving the club. His value then decreases. Or he picks up an injury. His value then decreases. To thrive in the modern era of football, you need to do what Brighton & Brentford are doing - selling at the top of the market, and buying extremely well. |  | | |
| Interesting Perspective on 11:53 - Jul 1 with 1513 views | MattinLondon |
| Interesting Perspective on 11:43 - Jul 1 by gsoly |
But it's near impossible to keep that player - let's say Mbuemo - performing well if he is dead set on leaving the club. His value then decreases. Or he picks up an injury. His value then decreases. To thrive in the modern era of football, you need to do what Brighton & Brentford are doing - selling at the top of the market, and buying extremely well. |
To date, both Brighton and Brentford have done remarkably well in maintaining and improving their PL status.
Someone at Brighton impressed me by stating that if a club only looks to replace a club regular when that player leaves, then you’re at an automatic disadvantage. A club should always identify who they need at least a transfer window in advance.
Of course it all sounds great and obvious when it works - not that long ago Swansea were the example used of a smaller club punching well above its weight in the PL. But, all it takes is for one or two bad transfer windows in a row for a club to become relegation contenders. [Post edited 1 Jul 11:53]
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| Interesting Perspective on 11:57 - Jul 1 with 1478 views | Chris_ITFC |
| Interesting Perspective on 09:05 - Jul 1 by keanekipper |
Thats the position we need get to with mckenna, but we started from such a low point the club needs to catch up, losing him would feel like jenga to me.
Next steps i feel ashton needs to shed some responsibility, starting by hiring a proper head of recruitment, its such a key role it needs someone's sole focus. |
Yeah, we’ll probably only know how well that’s worked 2-3 managers down the line! | |
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| Interesting Perspective on 12:36 - Jul 1 with 1348 views | Guthrum |
| Interesting Perspective on 11:43 - Jul 1 by gsoly |
But it's near impossible to keep that player - let's say Mbuemo - performing well if he is dead set on leaving the club. His value then decreases. Or he picks up an injury. His value then decreases. To thrive in the modern era of football, you need to do what Brighton & Brentford are doing - selling at the top of the market, and buying extremely well. |
That was partially my point. It is probably better to have had a brilliant player or coach for a short time and to lose them than never to do so, accepting a lower level of success to maintain a steady position*.
There is at least the chance of finding a replacement, the fee will help the finances and great performances lift the club's morale and profile.
* This was to an extent the issue we had in the latter Evans era. A limited risk and finance approach was, in reality, a slow decline which led eventually to stagnation in a lower division. | |
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| Interesting Perspective on 13:06 - Jul 1 with 1241 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Interesting Perspective on 09:05 - Jul 1 by keanekipper |
Thats the position we need get to with mckenna, but we started from such a low point the club needs to catch up, losing him would feel like jenga to me.
Next steps i feel ashton needs to shed some responsibility, starting by hiring a proper head of recruitment, its such a key role it needs someone's sole focus. |
Its hard to use Brentford or Brighton as a model, as their owners virtually invented the data analysis behind football. |  |
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| Interesting Perspective on 14:03 - Jul 1 with 1140 views | bsw72 |
Succession planning - key to longer term business success with any team, bring through staff who understand the system / culture and can start to contribute immediately while still learning and developing.
It's not about replacing players and coaches like for like, but having a talent pipeline either internal or external to reduce the risk of losing key contributors. |  | | |
| Interesting Perspective on 18:02 - Jul 1 with 956 views | bournemouthblue |
| Interesting Perspective on 11:53 - Jul 1 by MattinLondon |
To date, both Brighton and Brentford have done remarkably well in maintaining and improving their PL status.
Someone at Brighton impressed me by stating that if a club only looks to replace a club regular when that player leaves, then you’re at an automatic disadvantage. A club should always identify who they need at least a transfer window in advance.
Of course it all sounds great and obvious when it works - not that long ago Swansea were the example used of a smaller club punching well above its weight in the PL. But, all it takes is for one or two bad transfer windows in a row for a club to become relegation contenders. [Post edited 1 Jul 11:53]
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Double post n/t [Post edited 1 Jul 18:03]
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| Interesting Perspective on 18:02 - Jul 1 with 956 views | bournemouthblue |
| Interesting Perspective on 11:53 - Jul 1 by MattinLondon |
To date, both Brighton and Brentford have done remarkably well in maintaining and improving their PL status.
Someone at Brighton impressed me by stating that if a club only looks to replace a club regular when that player leaves, then you’re at an automatic disadvantage. A club should always identify who they need at least a transfer window in advance.
Of course it all sounds great and obvious when it works - not that long ago Swansea were the example used of a smaller club punching well above its weight in the PL. But, all it takes is for one or two bad transfer windows in a row for a club to become relegation contenders. [Post edited 1 Jul 11:53]
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You only have to see how many players they have on loan to other clubs to see how much talent they have
Enciso and Buonanotte getting game time at relegation contenders | |
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| Interesting Perspective on 21:15 - Jul 1 with 800 views | ITFCSG |
| Interesting Perspective on 18:02 - Jul 1 by bournemouthblue |
You only have to see how many players they have on loan to other clubs to see how much talent they have
Enciso and Buonanotte getting game time at relegation contenders |
That's why we need to work the overseas market asap.
The domestic market here has already been overfished, nothing left of value and we can't afford the real talent that will make an immediate difference.
Hopefully some interesting signings in the coming days, I dread for the saga to drag into the last week and then the club unveils some player signed from League 1 or 2 and tout them as the next big thing. Remember: For every Delap, Davis, Morsy and Luongo there was also AAH, Ahadme, Camara, Godfrey on loan etc. | | | |
| Interesting Perspective on 21:21 - Jul 1 with 775 views | Swansea_Blue |
It’ll be interesting to see how well those words age. He’s showing a lot of confidence considering Frank led them to by far their most successful period and they’ve not had to replace him in the PL until now. |  |
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| Interesting Perspective on 21:31 - Jul 1 with 740 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Interesting Perspective on 09:05 - Jul 1 by keanekipper |
Thats the position we need get to with mckenna, but we started from such a low point the club needs to catch up, losing him would feel like jenga to me.
Next steps i feel ashton needs to shed some responsibility, starting by hiring a proper head of recruitment, its such a key role it needs someone's sole focus. |
I think it's more a case of putting a proper value on McKenna which is currently higher than anyone else would put on him. Then it is about making sure we have everything in place to replace appropriately. Many are saying Keith Andrews is an underwhelming appointment but I think many would have said the same when we appointed McKenna too. It is how the replacements actually do rather than the expectations others have of them that matter.
One day, McKenna will move on for whatever reason. I, for one, hope that isn't anytime soon but the sentiment expressed in the OP is spot on for me. |  |
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| Interesting Perspective on 21:49 - Jul 1 with 696 views | HighgateBlue |
I appreciate the sentiment behind that, and I've been very impressed the way that Brighton have kept achieving when they've lost managers. It will be interesting to see what happens to Brentford.
But there are some exceptions to this really, in the sense that many organisations can't do much to guard against their top dog being poached. When we hired Kieran, we took a punt. We did our research, it paid off. But sometimes these decisions won't pay off, at least not to that extent. And given that we're not Spurs or Man Utd, at some time, we will lose him. It won't be the fault of the supporters or the club or Ashton. And although he can have other coaches working under Kieran, you can't have two managers at any one time (unlike footballing positions in your squad), so it's very difficult to see what we can really do in order to make it 'no big deal' when he is eventually tempted elsewhere. |  | | |
| Interesting Perspective on 22:47 - Jul 1 with 602 views | Guthrum |
| Interesting Perspective on 21:15 - Jul 1 by ITFCSG |
That's why we need to work the overseas market asap.
The domestic market here has already been overfished, nothing left of value and we can't afford the real talent that will make an immediate difference.
Hopefully some interesting signings in the coming days, I dread for the saga to drag into the last week and then the club unveils some player signed from League 1 or 2 and tout them as the next big thing. Remember: For every Delap, Davis, Morsy and Luongo there was also AAH, Ahadme, Camara, Godfrey on loan etc. |
But the overseas market is also quite well plundered, plus it's a lot harder to gauge level and suitability for the English game. On top of which are various administrative issues and possibly language barriers.
It's being talked of as if there is a vast, untapped reservoir of affordable talent out there, just waiting to be snapped up. Rather than a much trickier search over a hugely wider area, lacking an established, trustworthy network of contacts, with players perhaps not wanting to move countries and clubs no less desirous of extracting big fees. | |
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| Interesting Perspective on 09:35 - Jul 2 with 289 views | ITFCSG |
| Interesting Perspective on 22:47 - Jul 1 by Guthrum |
But the overseas market is also quite well plundered, plus it's a lot harder to gauge level and suitability for the English game. On top of which are various administrative issues and possibly language barriers.
It's being talked of as if there is a vast, untapped reservoir of affordable talent out there, just waiting to be snapped up. Rather than a much trickier search over a hugely wider area, lacking an established, trustworthy network of contacts, with players perhaps not wanting to move countries and clubs no less desirous of extracting big fees. |
Fair enough, but you can’t deny that the pool of hidden talent and rough gems are far more abroad than confining the scope of recruitment to the British Isles.
High risk, high reward. That’s why a developed international scouting network is paramount to identify players - that’s also how clubs like Brighton, Brentford even Wolves managed to become a Prem mainstay - they did it through clever international recruitments instead of relying on homegrown players | | | |
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