| UK to recognise Palestine in September unless certain conditions are met 17:00 - Jul 29 with 4455 views | reusersfreekicks |
Too little too late
60,000 killed
Famine conditions created and enforced
People shot trying to access aid
Far right racist government committing war and humanitarian crimes with impunity
Heard their foreign minister Gideon Sa'ar on news saying no starvation and that Israel is in danger of becoming the czechoslovakia of pre world war 2!!! |  | | |  |
| UK to recognise Palestine in September unless certain conditions are met on 13:51 - Jul 30 with 1170 views | Ryorry |
| UK to recognise Palestine in September unless certain conditions are met on 13:24 - Jul 30 by NthQldITFC |
How can there even be any question as to whether a people, the displaced and disenfranchised long-term occupants of a region, should have a recognised state or not?
I was going to write a lot more, but actually that's a fundamental question that underlies everything, isn't it?
How can there even be any question? |
But on that basis, Hamas and other terrorists in the region need to retract their longstanding aims to “wipe Israel off the face of the earth” also. Needs to work both ways, otherwise it won’t work. |  |
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| UK to recognise Palestine in September unless certain conditions are met on 14:34 - Jul 30 with 1102 views | Mercian |
| UK to recognise Palestine in September unless certain conditions are met on 13:51 - Jul 30 by Ryorry |
But on that basis, Hamas and other terrorists in the region need to retract their longstanding aims to “wipe Israel off the face of the earth” also. Needs to work both ways, otherwise it won’t work. |
I agree. The way Israel are behaving has taken the spotlight of Hamas and what an awful organisation they are. Starmer's ultimatum states that Hamas should not have any official role in the governing of Gaza and I doubt they will agree to that. A bit of a get out clause from Starmer IMO. As it stands I do not think he wants to recognise Palestine but he is under a lot of pressure to do so. [Post edited 30 Jul 14:36]
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| UK to recognise Palestine in September unless certain conditions are met on 14:47 - Jul 30 with 1085 views | NthQldITFC |
| UK to recognise Palestine in September unless certain conditions are met on 13:51 - Jul 30 by Ryorry |
But on that basis, Hamas and other terrorists in the region need to retract their longstanding aims to “wipe Israel off the face of the earth” also. Needs to work both ways, otherwise it won’t work. |
I'm not talking about Hamas or other terrorists, I'm talking about acknowledging the fundamental right of the Palestinian people to be free to have their own state in their own stolen land. Otherwise they're negotiating from an utterly powerless position with no reason whatsoever to trust anything Israel might promise. None whatsoever. Obviously.
The alternative would be to cancel the state of Israel and start negotiating from a position of equality, which obviously is not going to happen. |  |
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| UK to recognise Palestine in September unless certain conditions are met on 16:12 - Jul 30 with 1030 views | Ryorry |
| UK to recognise Palestine in September unless certain conditions are met on 14:47 - Jul 30 by NthQldITFC |
I'm not talking about Hamas or other terrorists, I'm talking about acknowledging the fundamental right of the Palestinian people to be free to have their own state in their own stolen land. Otherwise they're negotiating from an utterly powerless position with no reason whatsoever to trust anything Israel might promise. None whatsoever. Obviously.
The alternative would be to cancel the state of Israel and start negotiating from a position of equality, which obviously is not going to happen. |
"the fundamental right of the Palestinian people to be free to have their own state in their own stolen land."
I agree. And exactly the same should apply to the Israel people to be free to have their own state in their own stolen land, without the standing threat of others vowing to "wipe them off the face of the earth", wouldn't you agree?
The problems aren't the people but their leaders & fundamentsalist religious nuts - on both sides - ie the terrorists. | |
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| UK to recognise Palestine in September unless certain conditions are met on 16:43 - Jul 30 with 1006 views | reusersfreekicks |
| UK to recognise Palestine in September unless certain conditions are met on 16:12 - Jul 30 by Ryorry |
"the fundamental right of the Palestinian people to be free to have their own state in their own stolen land."
I agree. And exactly the same should apply to the Israel people to be free to have their own state in their own stolen land, without the standing threat of others vowing to "wipe them off the face of the earth", wouldn't you agree?
The problems aren't the people but their leaders & fundamentsalist religious nuts - on both sides - ie the terrorists. |
Who stole Israel's land? | | | |
| UK to recognise Palestine in September unless certain conditions are met on 16:52 - Jul 30 with 981 views | Ryorry |
| UK to recognise Palestine in September unless certain conditions are met on 16:43 - Jul 30 by reusersfreekicks |
Who stole Israel's land? |
You only have to go back in history. | |
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| UK to recognise Palestine in September unless certain conditions are met on 17:07 - Jul 30 with 957 views | StokieBlue |
| UK to recognise Palestine in September unless certain conditions are met on 16:52 - Jul 30 by Ryorry |
You only have to go back in history. |
How far back do you go though?
Applying that globally would be quite the effort. At the time there were many empires that spammed across the borders of many modern countries.
SB [Post edited 30 Jul 17:10]
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| UK to recognise Palestine in September unless certain conditions are met on 18:31 - Jul 30 with 891 views | Radlett_blue |
| UK to recognise Palestine in September unless certain conditions are met on 16:52 - Jul 30 by Ryorry |
You only have to go back in history. |
Depends how far back. you want to go. The Jews were in and around Israel 3,000 years ago, but that doesn't mean they have the right to the land now. |  |
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| UK to recognise Palestine in September unless certain conditions are met on 20:01 - Jul 30 with 851 views | NthQldITFC |
| UK to recognise Palestine in September unless certain conditions are met on 16:12 - Jul 30 by Ryorry |
"the fundamental right of the Palestinian people to be free to have their own state in their own stolen land."
I agree. And exactly the same should apply to the Israel people to be free to have their own state in their own stolen land, without the standing threat of others vowing to "wipe them off the face of the earth", wouldn't you agree?
The problems aren't the people but their leaders & fundamentsalist religious nuts - on both sides - ie the terrorists. |
The people of Israel have had their own state since 1947 when the Palestinian Arabs were disenfranchised by an overwhelmingly powerful outside force - living memory for some, second- or third-hand family tragedies for most - not something that happened 1,500 years or so ago.
Stolen? A false equivalence in terms of living humanity. | |
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| UK to recognise Palestine in September unless certain conditions are met on 20:20 - Jul 30 with 822 views | Ryorry |
| UK to recognise Palestine in September unless certain conditions are met on 20:01 - Jul 30 by NthQldITFC |
The people of Israel have had their own state since 1947 when the Palestinian Arabs were disenfranchised by an overwhelmingly powerful outside force - living memory for some, second- or third-hand family tragedies for most - not something that happened 1,500 years or so ago.
Stolen? A false equivalence in terms of living humanity. |
Try telling that to Jewish people who were persecuted in practically every other country round the world during all those centuries and only wanted to go back to their homeland where they thought they’d be safe. | |
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| UK to recognise Palestine in September unless certain conditions are met on 04:37 - Jul 31 with 673 views | Benters |
| UK to recognise Palestine in September unless certain conditions are met on 20:41 - Jul 29 by brazil1982 |
Blaming a terrorist organisation for their contempt of their people does not "justify" anything. My blame on Hamas goes against many on here, where the finger of blame is rarely pointed at Hamas. They should disarm and release the hostages from their dungeons. But, they won't as all the international pressure is on Israel. ISIS in disguise are to blame for the awful situation in Syria; the RSF in Sudan, the Houthis (Iran) for the situation in Yemen. Min Aung Hlaing for the desperate situation in Burma. |
I’m with you on this one. |  |
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| UK to recognise Palestine in September unless certain conditions are met on 04:39 - Jul 31 with 672 views | Benters |
| UK to recognise Palestine in September unless certain conditions are met on 13:51 - Jul 30 by Ryorry |
But on that basis, Hamas and other terrorists in the region need to retract their longstanding aims to “wipe Israel off the face of the earth” also. Needs to work both ways, otherwise it won’t work. |
This. | |
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| UK to recognise Palestine in September unless certain conditions are met on 07:24 - Jul 31 with 598 views | noggin |
| UK to recognise Palestine in September unless certain conditions are met on 20:20 - Jul 30 by Ryorry |
Try telling that to Jewish people who were persecuted in practically every other country round the world during all those centuries and only wanted to go back to their homeland where they thought they’d be safe. |
Only to then persecute the people who lived there. 78 years and counting. Hamas didn't exist 78 years ago.
https://www.un.org/unispal/about-the-nakba/ [Post edited 31 Jul 7:58]
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| UK to recognise Palestine in September unless certain conditions are met on 08:57 - Jul 31 with 525 views | Swansea_Blue |
| UK to recognise Palestine in September unless certain conditions are met on 20:41 - Jul 29 by brazil1982 |
Blaming a terrorist organisation for their contempt of their people does not "justify" anything. My blame on Hamas goes against many on here, where the finger of blame is rarely pointed at Hamas. They should disarm and release the hostages from their dungeons. But, they won't as all the international pressure is on Israel. ISIS in disguise are to blame for the awful situation in Syria; the RSF in Sudan, the Houthis (Iran) for the situation in Yemen. Min Aung Hlaing for the desperate situation in Burma. |
“All the international pressure on Israel”? Heh? You do realise that most of the western alliance countries have proscribed Hamas as a terrorist organisations and don’t support or fund them in any way? Whilst we simultaneously arm, fund and publicly support Israel?
The only reason there’s only just starting to be a little bit of pressure on Israel is because (a) we’re allies and so have leverage, and (b) the scale of the slaughter is so large that it’s becoming difficult to justify doing nothing. |  |
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| UK to recognise Palestine in September unless certain conditions are met on 12:46 - Jul 31 with 404 views | Ryorry |
| UK to recognise Palestine in September unless certain conditions are met on 07:24 - Jul 31 by noggin |
Only to then persecute the people who lived there. 78 years and counting. Hamas didn't exist 78 years ago.
https://www.un.org/unispal/about-the-nakba/ [Post edited 31 Jul 7:58]
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Did you actually think I either didn’t know or condoned it? Seriously?
That aside, the irony of Netanyahu and his govt. clearly working against the best interests of the majority of Jewish people both within Israel and around the world isn’t lost on most people. The most likely form of a better road will come as usual from within - young Israelis already showing the way by mass protests and publicly burning their call-up papers for conscription to the IDF. | |
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| UK to recognise Palestine in September unless certain conditions are met on 14:37 - Jul 31 with 339 views | Crawfordsboot |
And now the Beeb is reporting that top Lawyers and members of the House of Lords are suggesting that it would be illegal for the UK to recognise Palestine.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c78z69x61e6o
Unfortunately, and typical of the Beeb, they fail to mention that the leading lawyers just happen to be Jewish and established supporters of Israel! Just as they report Palestinian “terrorists” but Israeli “settlers”.
There really is a strongly embedded prejudice in favour of Israel. Sadly the political classes appear to be completely out of touch with the public on this.
Also they reference Israeli “hostages” but Palestinian “prisoners” [Post edited 31 Jul 14:45]
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| UK to recognise Palestine in September unless certain conditions are met on 15:00 - Jul 31 with 314 views | Swansea_Blue |
| UK to recognise Palestine in September unless certain conditions are met on 14:37 - Jul 31 by Crawfordsboot |
And now the Beeb is reporting that top Lawyers and members of the House of Lords are suggesting that it would be illegal for the UK to recognise Palestine.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c78z69x61e6o
Unfortunately, and typical of the Beeb, they fail to mention that the leading lawyers just happen to be Jewish and established supporters of Israel! Just as they report Palestinian “terrorists” but Israeli “settlers”.
There really is a strongly embedded prejudice in favour of Israel. Sadly the political classes appear to be completely out of touch with the public on this.
Also they reference Israeli “hostages” but Palestinian “prisoners” [Post edited 31 Jul 14:45]
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I’ve pretty much given up on the BBC’s current affairs coverage. I switch to R5 briefly in the car about 20 mins ago. Who were they playing clips of? Farage again. I’m sure he sponsors them.
Mind you, it wasn’t long ago that the conservatives were complaining that the BBC would’ve refer to Hamas as terrorists, so maybe they’re good at annoying people from all backgrounds? [Post edited 31 Jul 15:16]
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| UK to recognise Palestine in September unless certain conditions are met on 15:08 - Jul 31 with 300 views | Crawfordsboot |
| UK to recognise Palestine in September unless certain conditions are met on 15:00 - Jul 31 by Swansea_Blue |
I’ve pretty much given up on the BBC’s current affairs coverage. I switch to R5 briefly in the car about 20 mins ago. Who were they playing clips of? Farage again. I’m sure he sponsors them.
Mind you, it wasn’t long ago that the conservatives were complaining that the BBC would’ve refer to Hamas as terrorists, so maybe they’re good at annoying people from all backgrounds? [Post edited 31 Jul 15:16]
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I’m happy to hear reports from both sides and to be fair they try to do that. They mess it all up though when they tie themselves in knots over a programme narrated by a young boy whose father is a Hamas affiliated political representative yet present this legal opinion as if it comes from entirely neutral members of the Lords/judiciary. | | | |
| UK to recognise Palestine in September unless certain conditions are met on 15:50 - Jul 31 with 262 views | Clapham_Junction |
| UK to recognise Palestine in September unless certain conditions are met on 14:37 - Jul 31 by Crawfordsboot |
And now the Beeb is reporting that top Lawyers and members of the House of Lords are suggesting that it would be illegal for the UK to recognise Palestine.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c78z69x61e6o
Unfortunately, and typical of the Beeb, they fail to mention that the leading lawyers just happen to be Jewish and established supporters of Israel! Just as they report Palestinian “terrorists” but Israeli “settlers”.
There really is a strongly embedded prejudice in favour of Israel. Sadly the political classes appear to be completely out of touch with the public on this.
Also they reference Israeli “hostages” but Palestinian “prisoners” [Post edited 31 Jul 14:45]
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The fact that they are Jewish is irrelevant - you're making assumptions that people have particular views because of their ethnicity.
Being supporters of Israel is absolutely relevant and people of all ethnicities are in that category. |  | | |
| UK to recognise Palestine in September unless certain conditions are met on 18:18 - Jul 31 with 172 views | Crawfordsboot |
| UK to recognise Palestine in September unless certain conditions are met on 15:50 - Jul 31 by Clapham_Junction |
The fact that they are Jewish is irrelevant - you're making assumptions that people have particular views because of their ethnicity.
Being supporters of Israel is absolutely relevant and people of all ethnicities are in that category. |
In principle I tend to agree with your basic point and certainly a great many Jewish folk are appalled at Israel’s actions in Gaza.
On the other hand This Israeli Govt takes every opportunity to conflate Israeli with Jewishness claiming that to be anti Israel is to be anti semitic. Israel is a Jewish nation. No other nation defines nationality by religion.
The Israeli govt has for many years funded support initiatives and favourable PR. Many of our politicians have received funding and hospitality including trips to Israel and a great many are signed up members of Conservative or Labour “Friends of Israel”
For my part when our elected representatives and holders of public office lobby Govt, or make public statements, I want to know this sort of background. If Jo Bloggs, who makes a supporting comment, that’s one thing , but when it’s Jo Bloggs public figure I want to know whether or not he is a “Friend of Israel” | | | |
| UK to recognise Palestine in September unless certain conditions are met on 19:36 - Jul 31 with 138 views | Clapham_Junction |
| UK to recognise Palestine in September unless certain conditions are met on 18:18 - Jul 31 by Crawfordsboot |
In principle I tend to agree with your basic point and certainly a great many Jewish folk are appalled at Israel’s actions in Gaza.
On the other hand This Israeli Govt takes every opportunity to conflate Israeli with Jewishness claiming that to be anti Israel is to be anti semitic. Israel is a Jewish nation. No other nation defines nationality by religion.
The Israeli govt has for many years funded support initiatives and favourable PR. Many of our politicians have received funding and hospitality including trips to Israel and a great many are signed up members of Conservative or Labour “Friends of Israel”
For my part when our elected representatives and holders of public office lobby Govt, or make public statements, I want to know this sort of background. If Jo Bloggs, who makes a supporting comment, that’s one thing , but when it’s Jo Bloggs public figure I want to know whether or not he is a “Friend of Israel” |
Israel doesn't define nationality by religion - Israel has significant Muslim, Christian, Druze populations. But I think some other countries do - all Saudi Arabian citizens must be Muslims. Also, Jews are an ethno-religious group and not purely defined by religion. Many Jews are athiests (like Ed Milliband).
But you are completely right about the Israeli government and the influence of lobbyists and donations in British politics. It should now be abundantly clear to everyone why the Israeli government put so much money and effort into undermining the former leader of the Labour Party - it certainly turned out to be a worthwhile investment for them. Netanyahu must have been delighted when Starmer told LBC that Israel had the right to cut off supplies to the Gaza Strip. | | | |
| UK to recognise Palestine in September unless certain conditions are met on 19:50 - Jul 31 with 118 views | Crawfordsboot |
| UK to recognise Palestine in September unless certain conditions are met on 19:36 - Jul 31 by Clapham_Junction |
Israel doesn't define nationality by religion - Israel has significant Muslim, Christian, Druze populations. But I think some other countries do - all Saudi Arabian citizens must be Muslims. Also, Jews are an ethno-religious group and not purely defined by religion. Many Jews are athiests (like Ed Milliband).
But you are completely right about the Israeli government and the influence of lobbyists and donations in British politics. It should now be abundantly clear to everyone why the Israeli government put so much money and effort into undermining the former leader of the Labour Party - it certainly turned out to be a worthwhile investment for them. Netanyahu must have been delighted when Starmer told LBC that Israel had the right to cut off supplies to the Gaza Strip. |
Yes Israel has other ethnic groups living in the country but do they have equal rights?
Perhaps I put it a little clumsily but - From Wiki: Modern Israel came into existence on 14 May 1948 as a polity to serve as the homeland for the Jewish people. It was also defined in its declaration of independence as a "Jewish state", a term that also appeared in the United Nations Partition Plan for British Palestine in 1947. | | | |
| UK to recognise Palestine in September unless certain conditions are met on 20:19 - Jul 31 with 93 views | Clapham_Junction |
| UK to recognise Palestine in September unless certain conditions are met on 19:50 - Jul 31 by Crawfordsboot |
Yes Israel has other ethnic groups living in the country but do they have equal rights?
Perhaps I put it a little clumsily but - From Wiki: Modern Israel came into existence on 14 May 1948 as a polity to serve as the homeland for the Jewish people. It was also defined in its declaration of independence as a "Jewish state", a term that also appeared in the United Nations Partition Plan for British Palestine in 1947. |
Yes, they have equal rights.
The issue is in the occupied territories where Palestinians do not. | | | |
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