| What a waste of our taxes on 10:12 - Aug 10 with 581 views | Chris_ITFC |
As a pure non-political layman, what on EARTH does this achieve?
Arresting 474 people?!
It would be like locking up a whole crowd of football fans signing an offensive song, or stopping every driver doing 80mph round the M25 today.
Technically correct? Maybe. Operationally sensible? No.
A deterrent? If anything, it achieves the exact opposite. |  |
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| What a waste of our taxes on 10:14 - Aug 10 with 566 views | redrickstuhaart |
| What a waste of our taxes on 10:12 - Aug 10 by Chris_ITFC |
As a pure non-political layman, what on EARTH does this achieve?
Arresting 474 people?!
It would be like locking up a whole crowd of football fans signing an offensive song, or stopping every driver doing 80mph round the M25 today.
Technically correct? Maybe. Operationally sensible? No.
A deterrent? If anything, it achieves the exact opposite. |
If they dont, then the law fails and they have a massive problem of inconsistency.
Which is likely one of the main reasons people did it. Force them to unreasonably arrest lots of people to highlight the absurdity of what the government has done. |  | | |
| What a waste of our taxes on 10:21 - Aug 10 with 531 views | chicoazul |
| What a waste of our taxes on 09:30 - Aug 10 by DJR |
A disturbing aspect of the arrests for me is that the founders of Palestine Action have been given permission to challenge the ban.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/palestine-action-terror-ban-high-court-judge-
The case, likely to last three days, will look at whether the terror ban “amounts to a disproportionate interference with the rights to freedom of expression and freedom to protest”, as well as a claim that proscription was imposed without proper consultation with Palestine Action.
But, disturbingly, the hearing won't take place until November, and in the meantime hundreds are being arrested who would have their convictions overturned if the appeal proves successful.
What this, and the arrests does prove, is that an organisation like Palestine Action shouldn't have been shoe-horned into the Terrorism Act. Instead, if measures were thought necessary, bespoke legislation should have been produced which targeted those involved in the organisation and its actions but not those merely writing messages of support on a piece of cardboard.
And this was reported in the Observer.
A Police Federation source told The Observer: “Making Palestine Action a proscribed organisation may prove to be impractical in policing terms. It’s just another burden on officers.” [Post edited 10 Aug 9:39]
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God forbid we should ask the police to do the job of policing. Those poor lambs. |  |
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| What a waste of our taxes on 10:27 - Aug 10 with 510 views | azuremerlangus |
| What a waste of our taxes on 10:21 - Aug 10 by chicoazul |
God forbid we should ask the police to do the job of policing. Those poor lambs. |
Well they could have arrested 474 other people breaking the law somewhere else in London instead. |  |
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| What a waste of our taxes on 10:32 - Aug 10 with 493 views | pointofblue |
| What a waste of our taxes on 09:38 - Aug 10 by J2BLUE |
They're not, and it doesn't justify it, but they must have known they would be hit very hard for entering a military base. |
I have very little sympathy for this reason. They caused a reported £7m of damage which could and would have been sent elsewhere. I presume they would argue it would have been given to Israel, so it's money well spent. It also could have gone to Gaza itself - the government has just upped the amount given in aid.
We should be cutting all military supplies to Israel. I personally don't think a two state solution is viable, and we should be calling for a united state ran in a similar way to Northern Ireland, with this at the forefront of our foreign policy. And proscribing Palestine Action as a terror group is an over-reach and over-reaction, probably to distract from the fact the base was breached so easily. The government's response has probably helped PA in terms of public perception as well. Had they been proportionate, most would have been annoyed at the waste of public money to think the issues they caused. Now they're rallying around a further attempt by the government to stifle free speech. | |
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| What a waste of our taxes on 10:35 - Aug 10 with 472 views | J2BLUE |
| What a waste of our taxes on 09:54 - Aug 10 by Blueschev |
I’d argue that civil disobedience in an age where laws are abused is essential if we wish to continue to live in a free society. |
I agree.
Again, I was talking about their terror group tag, not the protesters. |  |
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| What a waste of our taxes on 10:52 - Aug 10 with 431 views | ArmaghBlue |
| What a waste of our taxes on 09:03 - Aug 10 by J2BLUE |
Does it not count on another continent? |
Do you honestly think that Israel and their allies give two hoots about protests half way across the world? |  | | |
| What a waste of our taxes on 10:54 - Aug 10 with 413 views | J2BLUE |
| What a waste of our taxes on 10:52 - Aug 10 by ArmaghBlue |
Do you honestly think that Israel and their allies give two hoots about protests half way across the world? |
No, but does that mean we shouldn't care about what they are doing? | |
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| What a waste of our taxes on 11:00 - Aug 10 with 395 views | DJR |
When it comes to arrests in recent weeks, I have seen reports suggesting arrest under section 12 or section 13 of the Terrorism Act.
Section 12 appears to me to be much more difficult to prove, and brings with it a right to jury trial.
"Section 12: Support.
(1) A person commits an offence if—
(a) he invites support for a proscribed organisation, and
(b) the support is not, or is not restricted to, the provision of money or other property (within the meaning of section 15).
(1A) A person commits an offence if the person—
(a) expresses an opinion or belief that is supportive of a proscribed organisation, and
(b) in doing so is reckless as to whether a person to whom the expression is directed will be encouraged to support a proscribed organisation.]"
"Section 13: Uniform etc
(1) A person in a public place commits an offence if he—
(a)wears an item of clothing, or
(b)wears, carries or displays an article,
in such a way or in such circumstances as to arouse reasonable suspicion that he is a member or supporter of a proscribed organisation."
EDIT: I have since come across this from a news item on the Counter Terrorism Policing website a couple of days ago, although I can find no trace of a section 13A of the Terrorism Act on the official legislation.gov.uk. website which is rather worrying if the Counter Terrorism Police don't know the law and are making up offences.
"Since 5 July, UK police have made:
1 arrest under Section 11 of the Terrorism Act 2000 (membership of a proscribed organisation)
58 arrests under Section 12 (inviting or recklessly expressing support for a proscribed group, or arranging meetings)
162 arrests under Section 13 or 13A (wearing or displaying articles in public, or publishing images associated with a proscribed organisation)." [Post edited 10 Aug 11:22]
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| What a waste of our taxes on 11:03 - Aug 10 with 376 views | Guthrum |
| What a waste of our taxes on 10:12 - Aug 10 by Chris_ITFC |
As a pure non-political layman, what on EARTH does this achieve?
Arresting 474 people?!
It would be like locking up a whole crowd of football fans signing an offensive song, or stopping every driver doing 80mph round the M25 today.
Technically correct? Maybe. Operationally sensible? No.
A deterrent? If anything, it achieves the exact opposite. |
It's the law, the police have to uphold it, especially in the face of a deliberate attempt to challenge that law.
People might think that law is wrong, but it is still the law, passed by our elected representatives. The police have very little choice, it is not in their power (institutionally*) to refuse to enforce what is handed down. Judges, on the other hand, do have powers to review and overturn such things. Thus court is the correct place to challenge such laws - which process is currently ongoing.
Unless you wish to formally register your objections by being arrested.
* Maybe operationally, if they feel resources are overstretched. But they are sworn agents of the state, they can't refuse to uphold the law. |  |
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| What a waste of our taxes on 11:03 - Aug 10 with 369 views | Chris_ITFC |
| What a waste of our taxes on 10:52 - Aug 10 by ArmaghBlue |
Do you honestly think that Israel and their allies give two hoots about protests half way across the world? |
No, but UK politicians do.
... UK politicians who have to decide / influence the stance / action the UK and its allies take. | |
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| What a waste of our taxes on 11:06 - Aug 10 with 361 views | Chris_ITFC |
| What a waste of our taxes on 10:14 - Aug 10 by redrickstuhaart |
If they dont, then the law fails and they have a massive problem of inconsistency.
Which is likely one of the main reasons people did it. Force them to unreasonably arrest lots of people to highlight the absurdity of what the government has done. |
Arresting 474 people at this protest very much creates a massive problem of inconsistency.
As my last post implies, just because arrest is *an* option, it doesn't mean it is the *only* option.
But political pressure dictates it. | |
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| What a waste of our taxes on 11:08 - Aug 10 with 355 views | ArmaghBlue |
| What a waste of our taxes on 11:03 - Aug 10 by Chris_ITFC |
No, but UK politicians do.
... UK politicians who have to decide / influence the stance / action the UK and its allies take. |
And do UK politicians have any influence in Israel? | | | |
| What a waste of our taxes on 11:11 - Aug 10 with 352 views | Trequartista |
| What a waste of our taxes on 11:03 - Aug 10 by Guthrum |
It's the law, the police have to uphold it, especially in the face of a deliberate attempt to challenge that law.
People might think that law is wrong, but it is still the law, passed by our elected representatives. The police have very little choice, it is not in their power (institutionally*) to refuse to enforce what is handed down. Judges, on the other hand, do have powers to review and overturn such things. Thus court is the correct place to challenge such laws - which process is currently ongoing.
Unless you wish to formally register your objections by being arrested.
* Maybe operationally, if they feel resources are overstretched. But they are sworn agents of the state, they can't refuse to uphold the law. |
This is my view too. The decision to proscribe Palestine Action as a terrorist group was totally wrong and an abuse of the legislation there to combat "real" terrorists. But now that decision has been made you can't just ignore a law. |  |
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| What a waste of our taxes on 11:16 - Aug 10 with 331 views | Herbivore |
| What a waste of our taxes on 11:11 - Aug 10 by Trequartista |
This is my view too. The decision to proscribe Palestine Action as a terrorist group was totally wrong and an abuse of the legislation there to combat "real" terrorists. But now that decision has been made you can't just ignore a law. |
They aren't ignoring it, they are publicly showing how utterly ridiculous it is. |  |
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| What a waste of our taxes on 11:22 - Aug 10 with 299 views | noggin |
| What a waste of our taxes on 10:52 - Aug 10 by ArmaghBlue |
Do you honestly think that Israel and their allies give two hoots about protests half way across the world? |
That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t show our disgust at the slaughter and starvation of a people, by a so called ally.
Silence is consent. [Post edited 10 Aug 11:26]
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| What a waste of our taxes on 11:41 - Aug 10 with 253 views | Benters |
| What a waste of our taxes on 11:08 - Aug 10 by ArmaghBlue |
And do UK politicians have any influence in Israel? |
I wish they worried about this country a bit more. |  |
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| What a waste of our taxes on 11:43 - Aug 10 with 250 views | DJR |
| What a waste of our taxes on 11:41 - Aug 10 by Benters |
I wish they worried about this country a bit more. |
It is possible to multi-task.  | | | |
| What a waste of our taxes on 11:44 - Aug 10 with 245 views | Benters |
| What a waste of our taxes on 11:43 - Aug 10 by DJR |
It is possible to multi-task. |
It doesn’t seem like it.
Their first year has been a complete failure. | |
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| What a waste of our taxes on 11:44 - Aug 10 with 244 views | DJR |
| What a waste of our taxes on 11:44 - Aug 10 by Benters |
It doesn’t seem like it.
Their first year has been a complete failure. |
You're not wrong. | | | |
| What a waste of our taxes on 11:46 - Aug 10 with 231 views | Benters |
| What a waste of our taxes on 11:44 - Aug 10 by DJR |
You're not wrong. |
This it’s a uppie from me 🤓😂 | |
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| What a waste of our taxes on 11:46 - Aug 10 with 229 views | Whos_blue |
| What a waste of our taxes on 11:41 - Aug 10 by Benters |
I wish they worried about this country a bit more. |
Rather than the genocide of innocent men, women and children being killed when queing for food to try and feed their starving families?
Gotcha. |  |
| Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness. |
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| What a waste of our taxes on 11:47 - Aug 10 with 226 views | Herbivore |
| What a waste of our taxes on 11:41 - Aug 10 by Benters |
I wish they worried about this country a bit more. |
They've done more in 14 months to tackle immigration than the Tories managed in 14 years, so I'm surprised you're so down on them when immigration is one of your biggest concerns. Personally, I think they've been pretty crap, but that's mainly because they've been governing to appease people who politically are much closer to you than they are to me. Seems that's not working for them. | |
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| What a waste of our taxes on 11:48 - Aug 10 with 219 views | Whos_blue |
| What a waste of our taxes on 08:59 - Aug 10 by ArmaghBlue |
Those idiots knew what they were doing, fine, make anti-genocide blah blah blah banners and join the rest of the pointless protests about an issue in another continent.
But saying they support terrorism is not the wisest thing to do. [Post edited 10 Aug 9:01]
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"Anti genocide blah blah blah banners".
Seriously?
What do you mean here? | |
| Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness. |
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| What a waste of our taxes on 11:54 - Aug 10 with 195 views | ArmaghBlue |
| What a waste of our taxes on 11:48 - Aug 10 by Whos_blue |
"Anti genocide blah blah blah banners".
Seriously?
What do you mean here? |
I mean all things that protesting here in the UK will make no difference to around the world. | | | |
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