| My read on KM and Chappers etc going 15:54 - Sep 1 with 2348 views | jasondozzell |
Horrible to see Woolfy and Chappers go.
I remember KM mentioning the idea of it building a 'new team' a while ago, at the end of the PL season in fact
It feels as if he really meant it.
It's a tough one. Obviously some of the moves (Broady, Burg, Morsy and Woolf) have been because players have been offered very good deals and or wanted to move.
But I wonder if KM feels that it was time for a big refresh and wasn't going to guarantee anyone minutes etc.
There's a kind of time cycle for coaches and players isn't there. 3-4 years is probably the sweet spot. After which, through no one's fault, messages and coaching probably doesn't quite have the same impact. You see it with managers coming in, doing 3 years and then reaching an end.
I wonder if KM feels that maybe his voice and the methods had become a little tired for some players, just through repetition. Did he want a newer group to reset energy and enthuse?
Could be I'm talking nonsense.
Either way it's been a pretty ruthless and speedy dismantling of the original side. |  | | |  |
| My read on KM and Chappers etc going on 15:56 - Sep 1 with 2250 views | portmanking |
Re. the 'new team' messaging, I'm afraid that was what I'd been told in the summer too - and had warned several times that we'd see more incomings/outgoings. *However*, that messaging/decision hasn't been largely driven by KM.... |  | | |
| My read on KM and Chappers etc going on 15:56 - Sep 1 with 2226 views | _clive_baker_ |
I wonder if its more of the 'doing right by the player' that we seem so willing to be this summer. I get it on a human level, but bending over and letting the heartbeats of our side walk away for peanuts because they've got silly money deals or the chance to move back home is a bit ridiculous IMO. |  | | |
| My read on KM and Chappers etc going on 15:58 - Sep 1 with 2172 views | burnbudgiesburn |
Agreed. I don't think moving that team on is necessarily per se a bad thing - it performed miracles and probably wasn't good enough for top flight football.
But as fans we did have a connection/love for that team that we don't have for the new players yet and that is only natural (no one loved the players in that side from the off)
My worry is that I am finding it increasingly difficult to believe you can build a new team on the hoof and get 1st or 2nd this season. | | | |
| My read on KM and Chappers etc going on 15:59 - Sep 1 with 2131 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
To be fair, that rebuild started 12 months ago.
Most of the legends have been bit part players ever since, except Morsy.
Probably best for all parties that they move on rather than rot on the bench. |  |
| |
| My read on KM and Chappers etc going on 16:00 - Sep 1 with 2073 views | TownieRob |
| My read on KM and Chappers etc going on 15:56 - Sep 1 by portmanking |
Re. the 'new team' messaging, I'm afraid that was what I'd been told in the summer too - and had warned several times that we'd see more incomings/outgoings. *However*, that messaging/decision hasn't been largely driven by KM.... |
Genuinely interested. Who is driving it then? - who would be wanting to drive out honest, , seemingly decent blokes and hardworking professionals who, against all odds got the team back to the promised land.
I cannot single a single ounce of logic in it. It cant be financially driven as we arent demanding huge sums for them? | | | |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 16:01 - Sep 1 with 2051 views | TownieRob |
| My read on KM and Chappers etc going on 15:56 - Sep 1 by portmanking |
Re. the 'new team' messaging, I'm afraid that was what I'd been told in the summer too - and had warned several times that we'd see more incomings/outgoings. *However*, that messaging/decision hasn't been largely driven by KM.... |
| | | |
| My read on KM and Chappers etc going on 16:01 - Sep 1 with 2013 views | pointofblue |
| My read on KM and Chappers etc going on 15:59 - Sep 1 by Marshalls_Mullet |
To be fair, that rebuild started 12 months ago.
Most of the legends have been bit part players ever since, except Morsy.
Probably best for all parties that they move on rather than rot on the bench. |
Morsy and Davis. | |
| |
| My read on KM and Chappers etc going on 16:03 - Sep 1 with 1974 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| My read on KM and Chappers etc going on 16:01 - Sep 1 by pointofblue |
Morsy and Davis. |
Fair point re Davis.
Still the vast majority. | |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| My read on KM and Chappers etc going on 16:04 - Sep 1 with 1930 views | jasondozzell |
| My read on KM and Chappers etc going on 15:56 - Sep 1 by portmanking |
Re. the 'new team' messaging, I'm afraid that was what I'd been told in the summer too - and had warned several times that we'd see more incomings/outgoings. *However*, that messaging/decision hasn't been largely driven by KM.... |
That's interesting...It definitely feels like the club has become a bit of a juggernaut. Would be fascinating to know how much involvement in recruitment KM has had.
I almost don't want to raise it because wary of going OTT but I could see Ashton and the Americans being more gung ho and wanting to push more than KM. There's clearly been a bit of tension in terms of deals being done late. I think you can tell KM has found that challenging.
Ashton is impatient and I do wonder if there was a strong reaction to last season's challenges along the lines of wanting to change player profile quickly.
The 17.5 m on Egeli I thought was very revealing that we haven't lost any ambition. Whatever the situation with the potential sale/investment seeking, we seem to be unwilling to stand still at all. That could be good or it could be bad. | | | |
| My read on KM and Chappers etc going on 16:04 - Sep 1 with 1911 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
It will all quieten down when we start winning games.
We had to often played 6-7 of our double promotion team last season and were getting murdered every week. Let fans have their cry today but jt is what it is, it’s been long gone for a while to be honest.
I think it’s just been magnified because we’ve sucked on the pitch this calendar year. There’s pressure now to put that right whoever is playing. |  |
| |
| My read on KM and Chappers etc going on 16:06 - Sep 1 with 1870 views | portmanking |
| My read on KM and Chappers etc going on 16:00 - Sep 1 by TownieRob |
Genuinely interested. Who is driving it then? - who would be wanting to drive out honest, , seemingly decent blokes and hardworking professionals who, against all odds got the team back to the promised land.
I cannot single a single ounce of logic in it. It cant be financially driven as we arent demanding huge sums for them? |
I think that's fairly clear, isn't it?
Ashton and the ownership group wanted to use the PL and parachute money to enhance the overall book value of our squad. They've certainly achieved that, but at what cost to the team ethic and culture? | | | |
| My read on KM and Chappers etc going on 16:06 - Sep 1 with 1870 views | hunty21 |
Needs a change in formation then cos we haven't got the players to replicate this system now feel like more of a 2 up front team now or a less attacking outlet hope not | | | |
| My read on KM and Chappers etc going on 16:08 - Sep 1 with 1819 views | nshearman1 |
| My read on KM and Chappers etc going on 15:58 - Sep 1 by burnbudgiesburn |
Agreed. I don't think moving that team on is necessarily per se a bad thing - it performed miracles and probably wasn't good enough for top flight football.
But as fans we did have a connection/love for that team that we don't have for the new players yet and that is only natural (no one loved the players in that side from the off)
My worry is that I am finding it increasingly difficult to believe you can build a new team on the hoof and get 1st or 2nd this season. |
Exactly. There's been no evolution here and we're now largely building a team from scratch, a team that seems to have been bought with the Premiership in mind when we're actually 20th in the Championship and seem incapable of winning a game - by the time we do it will probably be too late and it looks like realistically we're now on a two-season project. At best. | | | |
| My read on KM and Chappers etc going on 16:14 - Sep 1 with 1718 views | DavoIPB |
| My read on KM and Chappers etc going on 16:04 - Sep 1 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
It will all quieten down when we start winning games.
We had to often played 6-7 of our double promotion team last season and were getting murdered every week. Let fans have their cry today but jt is what it is, it’s been long gone for a while to be honest.
I think it’s just been magnified because we’ve sucked on the pitch this calendar year. There’s pressure now to put that right whoever is playing. |
Yep this. We were outclassed for the whole second half of the season last year post one or two games. Could see in our opening game against Liverpool that they were just strolling through it whole we huffed and puffed. It could now be argued that our defence is now our weakest point after this transfer window but it is still much stronger than our championship winning side.
We had to upgrade across the pitch and we have done that. It will come together. | | | |
| My read on KM and Chappers etc going on 16:21 - Sep 1 with 1631 views | burnbudgiesburn |
| My read on KM and Chappers etc going on 16:08 - Sep 1 by nshearman1 |
Exactly. There's been no evolution here and we're now largely building a team from scratch, a team that seems to have been bought with the Premiership in mind when we're actually 20th in the Championship and seem incapable of winning a game - by the time we do it will probably be too late and it looks like realistically we're now on a two-season project. At best. |
Yes.
I think i'll take solace in that I do feel our entire squad strength is on a very high level now even if we aren't performing as a team yet and some individual players need to start showing more.
Also that we can could be utter dog this season, lose 16 games and still make the play offs. I've not totally written off autos so soon, but it feels difficult when trying to rebuild a team whilst the season is ongoing. [Post edited 1 Sep 17:00]
| | | |
| My read on KM and Chappers etc going on 08:09 - Sep 2 with 1287 views | TownieRob |
| My read on KM and Chappers etc going on 16:06 - Sep 1 by portmanking |
I think that's fairly clear, isn't it?
Ashton and the ownership group wanted to use the PL and parachute money to enhance the overall book value of our squad. They've certainly achieved that, but at what cost to the team ethic and culture? |
I had considered this was the case and as you have pointed out. I hope book value wins promotion!
Another question: Why would the ownership group want to enhanve book value.. dont't worry I know the reason. :) | | | |
| My read on KM and Chappers etc going on 08:25 - Sep 2 with 1186 views | Steve_M |
| My read on KM and Chappers etc going on 15:56 - Sep 1 by _clive_baker_ |
I wonder if its more of the 'doing right by the player' that we seem so willing to be this summer. I get it on a human level, but bending over and letting the heartbeats of our side walk away for peanuts because they've got silly money deals or the chance to move back home is a bit ridiculous IMO. |
That's clearly the case with Chaplin, and with Morsy. Both of whom I would have preferred to keep for this season although I would have expected them to be phased out. Did we think Morsy was going to stay when we released Luongo? Keeping Mass might have bridged some of the gap.
It's been fairly obvious that Wolfy wanted to play but that one really does leave the squad weaker than it needed to be. |  |
| |
| My read on KM and Chappers etc going on 08:33 - Sep 2 with 1117 views | blueasfook |
Good post. It was always going to be sad to see the last members of the double promotion winning team move on. Over the years of mediocrity the team endured under Evans, I didnt really care about most of the players who came and went. But this team brought us joy and renewed pride in supporting ITFC. But as you say, football is cyclical and let's hope the new group can bring us some good times too. |  |
| |
| My read on KM and Chappers etc going on 08:53 - Sep 2 with 1007 views | dirtyboy |
Small point I was thinking about on the way into work.
McKenna has been at United and worked with players like Ronaldo who he will have seen working day in and day out and clearly knows what a world class environment looks like, working with Ole and Carrick, they finished 3rd and then 2nd (which seems quite remarkable given their decline since).
There's a large part of me that's trusted and enjoyed everything McKenna has said since arriving. He's just had a disappointing season after bringing nothing but joy in the previous seasons.
He's ambitious and I simply have to believe that he's got players that are capable of improving, learning the patterns of play and will get us up the league.
It's going to be a slog from now on, there's cushion of the continuity of a Champ team built in League One.
A line has now been drawn.
Disappointed to see all bar what, Walton, Burns and Humphreys leave, but the players we have, do have room to grow and improve and we will undoubtedly get better as the season progresses.
We're obviously a little behind where we should be table wise (which is why i'm disappointed with Omari still, he could have been the difference in those first couple of games), you can't plan for that.
Anyway.
Here we are. I'm pleased with who's been signed largely, although am on board with the fee paid for Mcateer seeing steep, but that's not Mcateer's fault.
coyb. |  | | |
| My read on KM and Chappers etc going on 09:21 - Sep 2 with 855 views | Xatticus |
| My read on KM and Chappers etc going on 16:06 - Sep 1 by portmanking |
I think that's fairly clear, isn't it?
Ashton and the ownership group wanted to use the PL and parachute money to enhance the overall book value of our squad. They've certainly achieved that, but at what cost to the team ethic and culture? |
It never was sustainable though. Morsy and Luongo in the middle was never more than a temporary fix. McKenna squeezed a lot out of those squads, but many of the pieces were flawed or limited.
Nobody wants to take a step back, but we couldn't simply keep driving forward with the same personnel. How many would be griping about a lack of investment if we tried to keep the same squad intact?
McKenna improved our performances immediately upon taking charge, but it wasn't until a year in that we really started firing. This group is going to require some time, but I have no doubt that the talent level has increased substantially and that we are better prepared for future challenges going forward.
There are some players that I didn't want to see go, but I don't understand the responses to Woolfenden's departure. He is a flawed player. He lacks physicality in a position that demands it. But for McKenna's tutelage, he is a player that probably never reaches the EPL. That's all fine. There was still a place and role for him here if he wanted it. He didn't. He is gone because he wanted to go. Why lament his departure? I don't want players around the club that aren't committed to doing their part to improve it. | | | |
| My read on KM and Chappers etc going on 09:21 - Sep 2 with 854 views | OldFart71 |
We all loved the two seasons of promotion, the euphoria surrounding the team and the fans all as one.
Realistically a;though perhaps our more high profile players stayed we need to remember that 20 goal Freddie left along with several others.
Now in the space of around two months the guts of the team has been ripped out. Delap, Hutchinson, Morsy, Chaplin,Loungo,Wolfenden etc,etc.
Many were expected, some less expected.
But what we saw last season was poor and that is probably understating the situation where weeks before the season ended we were demoted. Although there were shafts of light. Games which we won or should have won, but we just weren't overall good enough,
A reset was needed and boy have we had one. Whether it is successful remains to be seen. I see it as an enormous risk where we could end up next season having to do exactly the same as we are doing now as players on contracts with a buy if promotion is achieved would go back to their clubs and no doubt a few would have to be sold. | | | |
| My read on KM and Chappers etc going on 11:25 - Sep 2 with 563 views | Ryorry |
| My read on KM and Chappers etc going on 16:04 - Sep 1 by jasondozzell |
That's interesting...It definitely feels like the club has become a bit of a juggernaut. Would be fascinating to know how much involvement in recruitment KM has had.
I almost don't want to raise it because wary of going OTT but I could see Ashton and the Americans being more gung ho and wanting to push more than KM. There's clearly been a bit of tension in terms of deals being done late. I think you can tell KM has found that challenging.
Ashton is impatient and I do wonder if there was a strong reaction to last season's challenges along the lines of wanting to change player profile quickly.
The 17.5 m on Egeli I thought was very revealing that we haven't lost any ambition. Whatever the situation with the potential sale/investment seeking, we seem to be unwilling to stand still at all. That could be good or it could be bad. |
Been saying for a while my impression is that KM hasn't been the driving force behind most of the incomings/outgoings; or for the extent of the turnover of the squad. |  |
| |
| My read on KM and Chappers etc going on 11:32 - Sep 2 with 508 views | LeoMuff |
| My read on KM and Chappers etc going on 11:25 - Sep 2 by Ryorry |
Been saying for a while my impression is that KM hasn't been the driving force behind most of the incomings/outgoings; or for the extent of the turnover of the squad. |
The players drive a lot of it and Morsy, Burge, Wolf, Broady and possibly Chappers didn’t want to be here.
Ali, Luongo, weren’t good enough. |  |
| |
| My read on KM and Chappers etc going on 11:45 - Sep 2 with 445 views | Ryorry |
| My read on KM and Chappers etc going on 11:32 - Sep 2 by LeoMuff |
The players drive a lot of it and Morsy, Burge, Wolf, Broady and possibly Chappers didn’t want to be here.
Ali, Luongo, weren’t good enough. |
You consistently fail to consider, or choose to ignore, why those players (Morsy excepted) eventually feel they need to move on.
Month after month of being sidelined despite putting in good performances, just to make way for players whose performances were often worse, or at least no better, but who cost more, will do that. | |
| |
| My read on KM and Chappers etc going on 13:10 - Sep 2 with 252 views | jasondozzell |
| My read on KM and Chappers etc going on 11:25 - Sep 2 by Ryorry |
Been saying for a while my impression is that KM hasn't been the driving force behind most of the incomings/outgoings; or for the extent of the turnover of the squad. |
I think I'd tend to agree with that. I think there's always been that slight tension between Ashton and KM. Ashton saying 'Kieran would rather not sign the player if he's not certain' a while back sort of makes you imagine that he's more circumspect than Ashton. The latter sees player trading as his thing.
The cluh feels like it's been turbo charged since the Americans came in which is good but that willingness to go for it on all levels does bring challenges too.
I think the idea that KM has total control of football matters isn't quite true although clearly he and Ashton work very well together.
I think establishing us back as an elite club and business force and the football vision has been mostly aligned but it won't always be. | | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
