| People considering voting Reform 10:32 - Sep 9 with 12387 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
When you hear these claims, even you must be thinking 'Oh come on, Nigel. You're doing well in the polls, don't blow it!'?!
The first, that they would stop the boats IN TWO WEEKS. Farage has already rowed back on that (pardon the pun) and changed it to "once the laws are passed". But even then, with the best will in the world, that's obviously impossible. It's straight out of the Trump playbook - the claim that he'd stop the Ukraine war in 24 hours.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c237k55y90ko
Secondly, this batsh!t nonsense...
"A controversial doctor given top billing at the Reform party conference has used his main-stage speech to air a claim the Covid vaccine caused cancer in the royal family."
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/sep/06/doctor-aseem-malhotra-reform-co
Who on earth believes this stuff?
Or are you so desperate for a change in yours/the country's circumstances that you just ignore the bonkers stuff? This is a genuine question, not intended to take the piss out of Reform sympathisers, because I just can't understand how this party is so - apparently - popular, when they come out with stuff like this.
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| People considering voting Reform on 10:02 - Sep 10 with 590 views | leitrimblue |
| People considering voting Reform on 09:50 - Sep 10 by Trequartista |
I'm not convinced by an argument that says because alcohol is legal and potentially worse, cannabis should be legalised. |
So even though you except its less dangerous then alcohol your quite happy to randomly criminise and exclude a certain section of society? |  | | |
| People considering voting Reform on 10:02 - Sep 10 with 590 views | DanTheMan |
| People considering voting Reform on 07:53 - Sep 10 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Oh I get all that, I'm just not sure that's enough to describe it as "a dangerous drug". Tens of thousands of people are killed by paracetamol each year but you wouldn't call it "a dangerous drug". |
That's a bit disingenuous. I would assume those tens of thousands of people (and that must be globally, as there's something like 250 per year in the UK) are actively trying to end their lives.
That's a little different from using a drug recreationally on a consistent basis.
But yes, it depends on what you consider "dangerous". I'd say that doing it consistently before your brain has fully developed would be regarded as risky. |  |
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| People considering voting Reform on 10:08 - Sep 10 with 569 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| People considering voting Reform on 09:58 - Sep 10 by Blueschev |
Would it not be more beneficial for society if it was regulated so that people were fully aware of what they were smoking rather than the current situation where despite it's legal status, it is commonly consumed with impunity yet controlled by criminals? |
That's what I'd like to see with all drugs. Take them out of the hands of criminals AND improve the purity and therefore safety. You'd also gain money for the treasury (if you taxed them) and save money in the NHS (due to controls/purity). And some of that money could be used for drug/mental health programmes when people take it too far. | |
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| People considering voting Reform on 10:08 - Sep 10 with 568 views | DJR |
| People considering voting Reform on 08:42 - Sep 10 by CoachRob |
You missed the Greens off (I know you were having some mouse trouble)
REF: 27% (-2)
LAB: 22% (+2)
CON: 17% (-)
LDM: 15% (-)
GRN: 12% (+2) |
Thanks for correcting. |  | | |
| People considering voting Reform on 10:11 - Sep 10 with 538 views | Radlett_blue |
| People considering voting Reform on 09:58 - Sep 10 by giant_stow |
I'm not really talking about the legal status of each drug - just the safety of each. With one, you need to resort to correlation to make a decent case - with the other 1000s die each year directly & provably from drinking, just in this country. |
If you started society from scratch, you probably wouldn't make marijuana illegal, but alcohol & cigarettes legal. |  |
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| People considering voting Reform on 10:15 - Sep 10 with 518 views | Blueschev |
| People considering voting Reform on 10:08 - Sep 10 by The_Flashing_Smile |
That's what I'd like to see with all drugs. Take them out of the hands of criminals AND improve the purity and therefore safety. You'd also gain money for the treasury (if you taxed them) and save money in the NHS (due to controls/purity). And some of that money could be used for drug/mental health programmes when people take it too far. |
Yes I completely agree. Prohibition has utterly failed. People talk about two tier policing, you couldn't get a clearer example of it than possession of drugs, which is essentially legal for the middle classes, yet can ruin your life if you're poor and black. |  | | |
| People considering voting Reform on 10:15 - Sep 10 with 514 views | Trequartista |
| People considering voting Reform on 09:55 - Sep 10 by The_Flashing_Smile |
According to chatGPT;
Liverpool parade driver - no specific drug—including cannabis—has been confirmed or reported in public records at this stage.
Charlie Hebdo attackers - There is no evidence or credible reporting linking the Charlie Hebdo attackers to cannabis use. Discussions and records focus on their radicalization and ideology rather than drug use.
Bataclan attackers (Paris attacks November 2015) - Toxicology reports found only faint traces of cannabis and alcohol in the blood of some attackers. These levels were so minimal that they could not have been ingested the same day of the attacks.
Tunisian beach killers (Sousse attack) - Reports (mostly from tabloids like the Daily Mail) suggest the attacker was “high on cocaine,” not cannabis. There's no indication of cannabis involvement in those attacks.
Oklahoma City bomber (Timothy McVeigh) - McVeigh experimented with cannabis and methamphetamine—though he was reportedly less interested in drugs than his roommate.
So in the 7 cases you've listed, 5 had nothing, or virtually nothing, to do with cannabis.
And even then you agree that correlation is not causation.
And being a gateway to stronger drugs doesn't make that drug, in itself, "a dangerous drug". |
the liverpool one is drug-driving so i've jumped the gun there as i can't find which drug but let's wait and see, and i will remove the tunisian beach attack. charlie hebdo attacker Cherif Kouachi was a pot user, and the others were users too.
when i say "correlation isn't causation" I am specifically saying that just because they have used cannabis is doesn't mean that drove them to commit these crimes. i'm not saying they were decent people driven to a terrible crime by pot, but what i am saying is that there is a link there to be investigated as it comes up so many times (along with other drugs).
we have already discovered it can cause mental illness and psychosis so it's not unreasonable to be concerned about this link. |  |
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| People considering voting Reform on 10:16 - Sep 10 with 505 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| People considering voting Reform on 10:02 - Sep 10 by DanTheMan |
That's a bit disingenuous. I would assume those tens of thousands of people (and that must be globally, as there's something like 250 per year in the UK) are actively trying to end their lives.
That's a little different from using a drug recreationally on a consistent basis.
But yes, it depends on what you consider "dangerous". I'd say that doing it consistently before your brain has fully developed would be regarded as risky. |
Maybe slightly disingenuous, and we weren't talking about deaths anyway, per se, but it illustrates the point that 'anything' can be considered dangerous depending on what you do with it.
If one were to talk about deaths then cannabis doesn't have a known lethal overdose threshold in humans.
You've used the word "risky" yourself, which to me is a lot lower than "dangerous". | |
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| People considering voting Reform on 10:16 - Sep 10 with 508 views | DJR |
Bringing things back on track, things have certainly reached an appalling state when a former Tory and UKIP MP can post this.
Having said that, he now lives in America so is maybe not the patriot that you would think a person with his background would be. [Post edited 10 Sep 10:19]
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| People considering voting Reform on 10:18 - Sep 10 with 492 views | Trequartista |
| People considering voting Reform on 09:55 - Sep 10 by leitrimblue |
But it was still a point you thought was worth making though.. |
Of course, if i didn't make that point, it would seem I am saying these atrocities were a direct result of cannabis use, which no-one can prove. | |
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| People considering voting Reform on 10:19 - Sep 10 with 481 views | Trequartista |
| People considering voting Reform on 09:58 - Sep 10 by Blueschev |
Would it not be more beneficial for society if it was regulated so that people were fully aware of what they were smoking rather than the current situation where despite it's legal status, it is commonly consumed with impunity yet controlled by criminals? |
No, it would be more beneficial for society if the law was applied, which it isn't, as hype313 correctly pointed out earlier. [Post edited 10 Sep 10:24]
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| People considering voting Reform on 10:20 - Sep 10 with 474 views | leitrimblue |
| People considering voting Reform on 10:11 - Sep 10 by Radlett_blue |
If you started society from scratch, you probably wouldn't make marijuana illegal, but alcohol & cigarettes legal. |
If you starred society again you probably wouldn't ban um in the first place.
Drug use as been a major part of UK culture for thousands of years. The people who built and used yer beautiful Stonehenge were higher then anything you could probably imagine. | | | |
| People considering voting Reform on 10:20 - Sep 10 with 475 views | Trequartista |
| People considering voting Reform on 09:58 - Sep 10 by giant_stow |
I'm not really talking about the legal status of each drug - just the safety of each. With one, you need to resort to correlation to make a decent case - with the other 1000s die each year directly & provably from drinking, just in this country. |
I don't think you can prohibit alcohol, which is not a reason for legalising cannabis. | |
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| People considering voting Reform on 10:21 - Sep 10 with 470 views | Blueschev |
| People considering voting Reform on 10:16 - Sep 10 by DJR |
Bringing things back on track, things have certainly reached an appalling state when a former Tory and UKIP MP can post this.
Having said that, he now lives in America so is maybe not the patriot that you would think a person with his background would be. [Post edited 10 Sep 10:19]
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Even for an awful human being such as Carswell, that is awful. What is happening to this country? | | | |
| People considering voting Reform on 10:21 - Sep 10 with 463 views | Trequartista |
| People considering voting Reform on 10:02 - Sep 10 by leitrimblue |
So even though you except its less dangerous then alcohol your quite happy to randomly criminise and exclude a certain section of society? |
Exclude who from what? | |
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| People considering voting Reform on 10:24 - Sep 10 with 437 views | Radlett_blue |
| People considering voting Reform on 10:20 - Sep 10 by Trequartista |
I don't think you can prohibit alcohol, which is not a reason for legalising cannabis. |
The experiment in USA certainly didn't go well. Yes, it's a non-starter.
Gambling used to be possible to control, but the internet has changed all that. | |
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| People considering voting Reform on 10:28 - Sep 10 with 419 views | Trequartista |
| People considering voting Reform on 10:24 - Sep 10 by Radlett_blue |
The experiment in USA certainly didn't go well. Yes, it's a non-starter.
Gambling used to be possible to control, but the internet has changed all that. |
I believe Japan or it may be South Korea are strict on cannabis and do not have a huge black market problem. Cultures are different across the world though so i'm not saying that would automatically work here. | |
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| People considering voting Reform on 10:29 - Sep 10 with 414 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| People considering voting Reform on 10:20 - Sep 10 by leitrimblue |
If you starred society again you probably wouldn't ban um in the first place.
Drug use as been a major part of UK culture for thousands of years. The people who built and used yer beautiful Stonehenge were higher then anything you could probably imagine. |
Re your second paragraph: Maybe. Probably.
Lots of assumptions and reading back, without much in the way of evidence to support that view, though.
And a close to zero probability that they used Cannabis. There is no evidence, that I am aware of, that it was a plant that was native to Britain before dying out and being reintroduced centuries later. |  | | |
| People considering voting Reform on 10:33 - Sep 10 with 374 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| People considering voting Reform on 10:15 - Sep 10 by Trequartista |
the liverpool one is drug-driving so i've jumped the gun there as i can't find which drug but let's wait and see, and i will remove the tunisian beach attack. charlie hebdo attacker Cherif Kouachi was a pot user, and the others were users too.
when i say "correlation isn't causation" I am specifically saying that just because they have used cannabis is doesn't mean that drove them to commit these crimes. i'm not saying they were decent people driven to a terrible crime by pot, but what i am saying is that there is a link there to be investigated as it comes up so many times (along with other drugs).
we have already discovered it can cause mental illness and psychosis so it's not unreasonable to be concerned about this link. |
I think what's happend, and I see this a lot (especially with older people) is you've lumped all illegal drugs together as bad, and anything legal is fine because it's legal and governments obviously know what's best.
Most of your list was wrong. You've squirmed around the Liverpool one, added 'pot user' to the Charlie Hebdo attack (despite no link between cannabis and the crime) and then just ignored the rest.
You've proved my point rather well. I have a mate just like you - very anti-drugs, never tried anything illegal in his life, and actually talks about being PROUD that he's "never done drugs" ...all whilst sitting there with his fourth pint of the afternoon.
Cannabis is prescribed by doctors for pain relief.
There are lots of studies into the use of psilocybin (the active component in magic mushrooms) for mental health benefits.
This attitude of 'drugs are bad/dangerous' is very simplistic and largely born of ignorance. | |
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| People considering voting Reform on 10:39 - Sep 10 with 341 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| People considering voting Reform on 10:18 - Sep 10 by Trequartista |
Of course, if i didn't make that point, it would seem I am saying these atrocities were a direct result of cannabis use, which no-one can prove. |
But you've linked them all to cannabis use... and as I've shown, most of them had no direct link to cannabis whatsoever.
You've assumed drug use, when for most there's no evidence. And THEN you've assumed that drug was cannabis as well. | |
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| People considering voting Reform on 10:41 - Sep 10 with 333 views | leitrimblue |
| People considering voting Reform on 10:29 - Sep 10 by ArnoldMoorhen |
Re your second paragraph: Maybe. Probably.
Lots of assumptions and reading back, without much in the way of evidence to support that view, though.
And a close to zero probability that they used Cannabis. There is no evidence, that I am aware of, that it was a plant that was native to Britain before dying out and being reintroduced centuries later. |
The building of henge monuments and their earlier forerunner the causawayed enclosure would appear to be highly linked to seasonal festivities that seem to centre on the use of a concoction using a mix of henbane ( an incredibly strong hallucigenic ) and other herbs.
The analysis of residue on ceramics deliberately deposited in the ditches of Causewayed Enclosures show that a very high percentage of these ( as high as 90% I believe at one) contain traces of henbane.
Can give you a few excavation reports to check out if yer really interested and give us a bit of time | | | |
| People considering voting Reform on 10:41 - Sep 10 with 329 views | giant_stow |
| People considering voting Reform on 10:16 - Sep 10 by DJR |
Bringing things back on track, things have certainly reached an appalling state when a former Tory and UKIP MP can post this.
Having said that, he now lives in America so is maybe not the patriot that you would think a person with his background would be. [Post edited 10 Sep 10:19]
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what a c*** |  |
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| People considering voting Reform on 10:44 - Sep 10 with 307 views | leitrimblue |
| People considering voting Reform on 10:16 - Sep 10 by DJR |
Bringing things back on track, things have certainly reached an appalling state when a former Tory and UKIP MP can post this.
Having said that, he now lives in America so is maybe not the patriot that you would think a person with his background would be. [Post edited 10 Sep 10:19]
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Holy feck!
Though I guess he just as some very genuine concerns about immigration and isn't just a racist scumbag | | | |
| People considering voting Reform on 10:47 - Sep 10 with 273 views | Trequartista |
| People considering voting Reform on 10:33 - Sep 10 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I think what's happend, and I see this a lot (especially with older people) is you've lumped all illegal drugs together as bad, and anything legal is fine because it's legal and governments obviously know what's best.
Most of your list was wrong. You've squirmed around the Liverpool one, added 'pot user' to the Charlie Hebdo attack (despite no link between cannabis and the crime) and then just ignored the rest.
You've proved my point rather well. I have a mate just like you - very anti-drugs, never tried anything illegal in his life, and actually talks about being PROUD that he's "never done drugs" ...all whilst sitting there with his fourth pint of the afternoon.
Cannabis is prescribed by doctors for pain relief.
There are lots of studies into the use of psilocybin (the active component in magic mushrooms) for mental health benefits.
This attitude of 'drugs are bad/dangerous' is very simplistic and largely born of ignorance. |
Thank you for the amateur psycho-analysis of someone you know nothing about, but no, I'm just going on the facts of the effects of cannabis.
The attacker point was more of an aside to the main point of it causing long term mental illness and psychosis. I was at pains to point out there is no proven link but you're still saying "despite no link between cannabis and the crime" so my list was only wrong on the terms that I have not set (that any of the attacks were the direct result of cannabis use).
I am happy for cannabis to be prescribed for pain relief as I am morphine or any suitable opoid that you would control the use of. | |
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| People considering voting Reform on 10:52 - Sep 10 with 238 views | Dubtractor |
| People considering voting Reform on 10:20 - Sep 10 by leitrimblue |
If you starred society again you probably wouldn't ban um in the first place.
Drug use as been a major part of UK culture for thousands of years. The people who built and used yer beautiful Stonehenge were higher then anything you could probably imagine. |
Wait, the aliens that built Stonehenge were on drugs?
Should be called Stonerhenge really. |  |
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