| WBA 21/22 10:59 - Sep 9 with 2032 views | darkhorse28 |
They finished 10th in the championship that year, what is the problem we’re trying to solve, by signing Button, Palmer, Furlong, O’Shea, Townsend, Kipre?
It seems a bizarre strategy. Not terrible players, just seems a terrible strategy. They don’t align with our stated mission, and objectives.
We seem to sign EFL championship team of the year players in the prem, augmented with as many WBA players from a failed Championship side (when many of them were closer to their prime).
It’s so weak strategically, lacking in any kind of elite mentality and planning. No clear vision at all.
They didn’t even achieve close to where we say we want to go as a club, and it’s mostly recent, although we took Kyle Edwards that year, and many others since, Harper etc …, not great outcomes.
It’s four and half years since Mark took over.
That’s a long time, to end up with a strategy of talent ID, geared around failed WBA sides.
Theres been a lot of time and financial resource to build a recruitment network, that can at least move towards being elite.
Time will tell.., but if we got promoted…, wouldn’t we need an entire defence, as a minimum, Greaves too has gone backwards since he signed.
It seems an odd way to become elite.
None of them have an elite ceiling. To know that when you sign players. With our resources, seems so confused. It’s the networks we have, rather than building the networks we need.
The more money we’ve had…, the more our weaknesses off the pitch have been exposed. It seems as prevalent today as at any point.
We aren’t learning from any of our mistakes.
I don’t think our senior team know why we’ve failed. The PR is so confused.
‘We failed because we’re just a little league one club on a journey’
Ok…, but we spent £150 million and none of the team have ever played in league one, ever.
‘We are failing because of high player turnover’
Ok. But YOU decided to spend £150 million last year and replace most of the squad, and then you decided to do the same again this summer. That was a choice, mostly.
Sorry. But staegjcalky. We haven’t got a clue what we are doing.
And it start with NO agency, NO accountability, NO scrutiny, and no need to own their mistakes.
Ashton can say anything at this point, and a small element of nodding dogs will parrot him.
WBA 2022/22 - a poor team…, would be much poorer now too, the league isn’t easier, and that’s our solution.
I guess the problem is…, what players are in my address book, and can be persuaded to sign.
It’s not what Brighton Bournemouth, Fulham, Wolves Brentford are doing is it.
Unless they just have a better address book. |  | | |  |
| WBA 21/22 on 11:06 - Sep 9 with 1866 views | dirtyboy |
I cba to read all of your post, but after the first couple of paras, I can guess where you were heading.
WBA defence that season was solid, best home record in the league, that wasn't their problem in a 10th place finish, it was that they didn't score. Reading who narrowly avoided relegation outscored them. |  | | |
| WBA 21/22 on 11:07 - Sep 9 with 1856 views | TractorJack |
I can tell you now that none of those teams you mentioned are judging players based on the finish place of their team from 1 season. |  | | |
| WBA 21/22 on 11:10 - Sep 9 with 1812 views | JakeITFC |
The ramblings of a madman.
Please don't get too caught up on where our backup defenders came from, it's not important. |  | | |
| WBA 21/22 on 11:14 - Sep 9 with 1764 views | darkhorse28 |
| WBA 21/22 on 11:06 - Sep 9 by dirtyboy |
I cba to read all of your post, but after the first couple of paras, I can guess where you were heading.
WBA defence that season was solid, best home record in the league, that wasn't their problem in a 10th place finish, it was that they didn't score. Reading who narrowly avoided relegation outscored them. |
And they aren’t bad players, certainly OShea and Furlong at this level.., Townsend i really like.
That wasn’t the point…., none of them.., are even vaguely close to where we want to go, and are past their prime, except OShea who may improve, but will need to.
So why have we signed them?
They’ve never been elite. We know none of them ever will be.
What’s the strategy? Whats the plan? A solid defence from years ago, that achieved very little relative to our objectives?
Seriously. What’s the vision? What are you seeing? | | | |
| WBA 21/22 on 11:15 - Sep 9 with 1756 views | Garv |
Sometimes I wish people would use paragraphs more. This is not one of those times.
Blimey. That's quite the stream of criticism. |  |
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| WBA 21/22 on 11:21 - Sep 9 with 1703 views | darkhorse28 |
| WBA 21/22 on 11:07 - Sep 9 by TractorJack |
I can tell you now that none of those teams you mentioned are judging players based on the finish place of their team from 1 season. |
How about the finishing places of their entire careers? One of the players is 36, two others are 30.
Tell me when any of them ever looked like the quality to establish themselves in the premier league? …, at the level it is today.
It’s light years ahead of when they proved they weren’t good enough.
Is it a group that can compete with our legacy defence?
Leif Butgess Wolf Tuenzabe
Townsend O’Shea Kipre Furlong - you don’t have to have Button in goal.
Not a lot in it is there…, two good EFL groups, not a single player that isn’t at or past his peak. Not one…, and nowhere near playing at the level above. Wolf probably at his age and OShea are the only ones who might improve.
We did spend £200 million on improving this squad.
We haven’t improved the defence at all have we…, that hasn’t moved us 1% forwards in my opinion. | | | |
| WBA 21/22 on 11:22 - Sep 9 with 1691 views | darkhorse28 |
| WBA 21/22 on 11:15 - Sep 9 by Garv |
Sometimes I wish people would use paragraphs more. This is not one of those times.
Blimey. That's quite the stream of criticism. |
Your concise criticism is better. | | | |
| WBA 21/22 on 11:23 - Sep 9 with 1676 views | waveneyblue |
I will be honest, I looked who the poster was and ignored it. Every single thing has a negative spin. Why suddenly post about West Brom players 9 days after the end of the transfer window.
Weird obsessive behaviour |  | | |
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| WBA 21/22 on 11:27 - Sep 9 with 1641 views | darkhorse28 |
| WBA 21/22 on 11:10 - Sep 9 by JakeITFC |
The ramblings of a madman.
Please don't get too caught up on where our backup defenders came from, it's not important. |
Palmer OShea and Furlong are backup?
Townsend is our best left back defensively too…, but excellent postionally.
Suspect Furlong will be first choice in time.
Why attack people instead of addressing the issue?
It’s (almost) like you don’t have an argument for why our talent ID is so poor. Not sure the nodding dog routine is working for anyone. | | | |
| WBA 21/22 on 11:39 - Sep 9 with 1523 views | HighgateBlue |
Button isn't going to cause us to succeed or fail. I doubt he'll play. I doubt anyone will complain about that.
Palmer seems like a steady enough Eddie at this level. Our fumbles with goalkeepers in the last couple of years are well known. I think Kieran probably wanted stability and continuity, and if we go back up, he'll surely sign a quality replacement. Or try to.
Furlong - no idea how much he'll play. Let's judge him when he's actually played. Beyond odd to have 4 RBs and one LB, but there we are. The proof of the pudding and all that...
O'Shea - surely at least decent at this level. Not the very greatest start by him this season but you can't complain about his quality at this level, I don't think. My slight gripe at CB is losing Burgess, but that's unrelated to O'Shea.
Townsend - he wasn't previously an injury liability, he's had a bad one, it's just unfortunate. I thought he'd looked really good when he played. Had he been fit, and had Leif been injured or sold for megabucks, I would have no qualms about Townsend being our starting left back. I think he deserves to be judged on what we've seen, and I judge him positively.
Kipre will clearly not be first choice. It's a shame to have lost Burgess and Woolfy, but there we go, and if our biggest problem is the quality of our back up defenders then I will be pleasantly surprised with this season. Back up defenders in this division are not going to be elite, no matter whether they've played for WBA before or not.
We're not holding it against Nunez that he came from Norwich, so let's not hold it against any of these lads where they came from. It's a weird coincidence, granted, but let's judge them on what we see.
So far, it's hard to see an improvement since 16 months ago, for the many millions spent, but there's half a team that we've not seen really anything of yet, Those 4 league games are not going to come back, and Sargent has more goals than we have points. It's a bad start, there's no two ways about it. But let's allow Kieran a re-set and judge him on what comes next. This is when he earns his money. |  | | |
| WBA 21/22 on 11:40 - Sep 9 with 1520 views | Radlett_blue |
| WBA 21/22 on 11:21 - Sep 9 by darkhorse28 |
How about the finishing places of their entire careers? One of the players is 36, two others are 30.
Tell me when any of them ever looked like the quality to establish themselves in the premier league? …, at the level it is today.
It’s light years ahead of when they proved they weren’t good enough.
Is it a group that can compete with our legacy defence?
Leif Butgess Wolf Tuenzabe
Townsend O’Shea Kipre Furlong - you don’t have to have Button in goal.
Not a lot in it is there…, two good EFL groups, not a single player that isn’t at or past his peak. Not one…, and nowhere near playing at the level above. Wolf probably at his age and OShea are the only ones who might improve.
We did spend £200 million on improving this squad.
We haven’t improved the defence at all have we…, that hasn’t moved us 1% forwards in my opinion. |
The issue isn't the WBA players, we have signed, it's whether McKenna can mould the expensive attacking players we have signed or borrowed - Clarke, Philogene, Akpom, Azon, McAteer, Nunez & Szmodics - into an effective unit. If we don;t see signs of a settled, more effective attack in a few weeks time, McKenna's strategy will be under criticism. |  |
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| WBA 21/22 on 12:09 - Sep 9 with 1392 views | textbackup |
I reckon, and forgive me I didn’t read it all, but our manager seems decent at improving players.
So if they are a player worthy a 10th place finish under manager X, under KM they could be a top 3 player, especially looking at the fire power ahead of them.
Just a thought |  |
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| WBA 21/22 on 12:10 - Sep 9 with 1391 views | billlm |
| WBA 21/22 on 11:40 - Sep 9 by Radlett_blue |
The issue isn't the WBA players, we have signed, it's whether McKenna can mould the expensive attacking players we have signed or borrowed - Clarke, Philogene, Akpom, Azon, McAteer, Nunez & Szmodics - into an effective unit. If we don;t see signs of a settled, more effective attack in a few weeks time, McKenna's strategy will be under criticism. |
Agree, he's getting close to it,
Atm I think we're miles off it going forward like the championship promotion team,
We had a lot of luck that season,
But also made our own with our never say die attitude,
We have better players now,
Early days need that attitude,
Over to you MC'K, |  | | |
| WBA 21/22 on 12:14 - Sep 9 with 1359 views | Radlett_blue |
| WBA 21/22 on 12:10 - Sep 9 by billlm |
Agree, he's getting close to it,
Atm I think we're miles off it going forward like the championship promotion team,
We had a lot of luck that season,
But also made our own with our never say die attitude,
We have better players now,
Early days need that attitude,
Over to you MC'K, |
Indeed, it's not just about systems, in 2023-24, the team had an incredible never say die, winning mentality which enabled us to win many games we could easily have lost. Since then, we've had a huge influx of new players & most of them only know defeat & despair at Town. The start of this season would also suggest the winning mentality is sadly lacking & that won't be easy to restore, but actually winning a few games might help! | |
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| WBA 21/22 on 12:27 - Sep 9 with 1256 views | JakeITFC |
| WBA 21/22 on 11:27 - Sep 9 by darkhorse28 |
Palmer OShea and Furlong are backup?
Townsend is our best left back defensively too…, but excellent postionally.
Suspect Furlong will be first choice in time.
Why attack people instead of addressing the issue?
It’s (almost) like you don’t have an argument for why our talent ID is so poor. Not sure the nodding dog routine is working for anyone. |
Palmer - stopgap solution to a problem, not sure he's very good but given the circumstances it was a fine signing. WBA's manager was very adamant that he didn't want him to go.
O'Shea - didn't sign from WBA.
Furlong - captained the side this season and a good Championship player. Adds depth to cover injuries.
Townsend - cheap (and as you say yourself) capable depth.
Kipre - didn't sign from WBA.
I don't see any issue with any of those signings individually, do you? Our 'talent ID' (waanky term) has secured us more incoming transfer fees this summer than we've probably accrued in the history of the club combined so I'm wondering why you're focussing on these relatively unimportant players to have a weird dig. | | | |
| WBA 21/22 on 12:31 - Sep 9 with 1205 views | Everydayblue |
Out of interest, which "elite" defenders would you have signed this Summer?
Our wider recruitment is still in it's infancy. And we haven't got infinite funds.
Leif, Greaves and O'shea would walk into any Championship side. And there's an argument to suggest that all three would get Prem' moves if we sold them tomorrow. Imo.
We've got plenty of talent in our group of defenders, for a promotion push.
Although, ideally, I would like to see a top draw, commanding keeper. A communicator, who would help to organise and knit things together more at the back.
I'm hugely excited about the season ahead. There's nothing better than watching a team develop into a monster. Which we've all experienced recently under KM.
I think a part of our problem since being promoted last time round. Is losing the mantra of "one game at a time".. Imo, there seems to be one eye on the future, which is probably needed from the top. But not filtering into the dressing room.
Imo, KM has to try and shut out all the noise. And just prepare thoroughly for the next game. Working in the "here and now".
A mindset that served us so well, for those tough promotional run ins , a couple of seasons back.
Having watched KM develop senior players like Morsy and Burgess into twice the players that arrived here. I have no doubt, that once the atmosphere is improved through some form on the pitch. He can do exactly the same with the current crop of seniors... Players like Furlong, Kipre, etc. | | | |
| WBA 21/22 on 12:38 - Sep 9 with 1163 views | nrb1985 |
| WBA 21/22 on 12:31 - Sep 9 by Everydayblue |
Out of interest, which "elite" defenders would you have signed this Summer?
Our wider recruitment is still in it's infancy. And we haven't got infinite funds.
Leif, Greaves and O'shea would walk into any Championship side. And there's an argument to suggest that all three would get Prem' moves if we sold them tomorrow. Imo.
We've got plenty of talent in our group of defenders, for a promotion push.
Although, ideally, I would like to see a top draw, commanding keeper. A communicator, who would help to organise and knit things together more at the back.
I'm hugely excited about the season ahead. There's nothing better than watching a team develop into a monster. Which we've all experienced recently under KM.
I think a part of our problem since being promoted last time round. Is losing the mantra of "one game at a time".. Imo, there seems to be one eye on the future, which is probably needed from the top. But not filtering into the dressing room.
Imo, KM has to try and shut out all the noise. And just prepare thoroughly for the next game. Working in the "here and now".
A mindset that served us so well, for those tough promotional run ins , a couple of seasons back.
Having watched KM develop senior players like Morsy and Burgess into twice the players that arrived here. I have no doubt, that once the atmosphere is improved through some form on the pitch. He can do exactly the same with the current crop of seniors... Players like Furlong, Kipre, etc. |
Think he was hoping for Nesta, Costacurta and Baresi.
Can see why he’d be underwhelmed. | | | |
| WBA 21/22 on 12:45 - Sep 9 with 1116 views | Freddies_Ears |
| WBA 21/22 on 12:10 - Sep 9 by billlm |
Agree, he's getting close to it,
Atm I think we're miles off it going forward like the championship promotion team,
We had a lot of luck that season,
But also made our own with our never say die attitude,
We have better players now,
Early days need that attitude,
Over to you MC'K, |
I remain a bit concerned about the rigidity of our system, and very concerned about the switch to wingers in a change to our 4-2-3-1. We got promoted by having 2 wing backs providing width, and 3 x attacking goalscoring mids, with a CF scoring but mostly creating space for others.
Now, with the use of 2 x wingers, I just don't see where the goals will come from. But, I don't think McK is an idiot - I trust him to show me why I am wrong to worry! | | | |
| WBA 21/22 on 12:53 - Sep 9 with 1049 views | BasingstokeBlue |
You have players in your address book? Professionals? Are any of them any good (I know it's too late, now). |  |
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| WBA 21/22 on 13:24 - Sep 9 with 876 views | LeoMuff |
| WBA 21/22 on 11:27 - Sep 9 by darkhorse28 |
Palmer OShea and Furlong are backup?
Townsend is our best left back defensively too…, but excellent postionally.
Suspect Furlong will be first choice in time.
Why attack people instead of addressing the issue?
It’s (almost) like you don’t have an argument for why our talent ID is so poor. Not sure the nodding dog routine is working for anyone. |
How on earth is our talent ID poor, we have sold over £80m worth of talent this summer, and if we hadn’t got an unfortunate clause for Delap would be over £100m.
I can’t be bothered to list them but we have increased the value of almost every player we have brought, even AAH ! Particularly in the championship and league 1.
O Shea is a prem player we are lucky to have him, Palmer is solid has been a championship regular and kept many clean sheets in this league, clearly we would upgrade if promoted but plenty good enough. Also see Fulong.
The rest are decent Championship back up. |  |
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| WBA 21/22 on 14:04 - Sep 9 with 749 views | Radlett_blue |
| WBA 21/22 on 12:31 - Sep 9 by Everydayblue |
Out of interest, which "elite" defenders would you have signed this Summer?
Our wider recruitment is still in it's infancy. And we haven't got infinite funds.
Leif, Greaves and O'shea would walk into any Championship side. And there's an argument to suggest that all three would get Prem' moves if we sold them tomorrow. Imo.
We've got plenty of talent in our group of defenders, for a promotion push.
Although, ideally, I would like to see a top draw, commanding keeper. A communicator, who would help to organise and knit things together more at the back.
I'm hugely excited about the season ahead. There's nothing better than watching a team develop into a monster. Which we've all experienced recently under KM.
I think a part of our problem since being promoted last time round. Is losing the mantra of "one game at a time".. Imo, there seems to be one eye on the future, which is probably needed from the top. But not filtering into the dressing room.
Imo, KM has to try and shut out all the noise. And just prepare thoroughly for the next game. Working in the "here and now".
A mindset that served us so well, for those tough promotional run ins , a couple of seasons back.
Having watched KM develop senior players like Morsy and Burgess into twice the players that arrived here. I have no doubt, that once the atmosphere is improved through some form on the pitch. He can do exactly the same with the current crop of seniors... Players like Furlong, Kipre, etc. |
The defence really isn't our problem. It's only been highlighted because, as Town are creating so little, that every goal against (most goals can be avoided with better defending) hurts as far more. | |
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| WBA 21/22 on 15:10 - Sep 9 with 524 views | itfcserbia |
| WBA 21/22 on 12:38 - Sep 9 by nrb1985 |
Think he was hoping for Nesta, Costacurta and Baresi.
Can see why he’d be underwhelmed. |
no, they're all too short |  |
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| WBA 21/22 on 15:16 - Sep 9 with 491 views | BiGDonnie |
SYBAU |  |
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| WBA 21/22 on 15:25 - Sep 9 with 454 views | Everydayblue |
| WBA 21/22 on 14:04 - Sep 9 by Radlett_blue |
The defence really isn't our problem. It's only been highlighted because, as Town are creating so little, that every goal against (most goals can be avoided with better defending) hurts as far more. |
Bit of both, imo.... We're not exactly shipping goals atm.. But we aren't keeping clean sheets either. But I don't think it's down to individuals ability. Just forging relationships on the pitch. And gaining back that winning feeling.
I'm happy with our squad. Don't see the point in OP trying to find fault in our recruitment.
We haven't got going yet. That's obvious.
Ultimately, we'll be judged on whether we get promoted in one way or another.
The additions of Akpom, Azon, Egeli and Nunez, should give us more of a goal threat, creativity and fresh enthusiasm in the final third imo.
And the leadership group can kick on now. No longer in the shadow of Morsy and the Morsy disciples.
I'm looking forward to it all coming into fruition.. And when it does, be that 1 game, 3 games time or 5 games time.. We'll go on a juggernaut run.. | | | |
| WBA 21/22 on 17:35 - Sep 9 with 141 views | muccletonjoe |
| WBA 21/22 on 15:25 - Sep 9 by Everydayblue |
Bit of both, imo.... We're not exactly shipping goals atm.. But we aren't keeping clean sheets either. But I don't think it's down to individuals ability. Just forging relationships on the pitch. And gaining back that winning feeling.
I'm happy with our squad. Don't see the point in OP trying to find fault in our recruitment.
We haven't got going yet. That's obvious.
Ultimately, we'll be judged on whether we get promoted in one way or another.
The additions of Akpom, Azon, Egeli and Nunez, should give us more of a goal threat, creativity and fresh enthusiasm in the final third imo.
And the leadership group can kick on now. No longer in the shadow of Morsy and the Morsy disciples.
I'm looking forward to it all coming into fruition.. And when it does, be that 1 game, 3 games time or 5 games time.. We'll go on a juggernaut run.. |
Well we quite clearly haven't got going yet, but this friday we are playing against a side who that phrase applies to even more than itfc.
So while I am far from happy with manager, formation, tactics or signings , I am prepared to watch this game for clear signs of improvement.
If it doesn't appear , I think it will take a totally brainwashed optimist to still be saying trust the process. |  | | |
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